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Tags Canada elections , Canada politics , justin trudeau

View Poll Results: Which party do you support in the upcoming Canadian election?
Liberal 3 10.71%
Conservative 4 14.29%
NDP 2 7.14%
Green party 1 3.57%
BQ 0 0%
Other 5 17.86%
I'm from planet X or some other non-Canadian place so I can't vote 13 46.43%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 19th September 2019, 07:57 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Now there is video of Trudeau in black face from a completely separate incident.

Does anyone think he might end up resigning over this?
Apparently Twitter is cracking down on accounts posting pictures of this.
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Old 19th September 2019, 08:23 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Now there is video of Trudeau in black face from a completely separate incident.

Does anyone think he might end up resigning over this?
We're now up to 3 times.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5922861/j...ownface-video/
Global News has obtained video showing Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau in blackface, the third instance of racist dress to come to light in 12 hours. The video was shot in the early 1990s, however, it’s not clear where it takes place.

Well, at least he's showing some consistency.

Who knew that the guy who complained when the government labeled female circumcision 'barbaric' and groped a female reporter might be prone to making gaffs?
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Old 19th September 2019, 08:35 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
We're now up to 3 times.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5922861/j...ownface-video/
Global News has obtained video showing Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau in blackface, the third instance of racist dress to come to light in 12 hours. The video was shot in the early 1990s, however, it’s not clear where it takes place.

Well, at least he's showing some consistency.

Who knew that the guy who complained when the government labeled female circumcision 'barbaric' and groped a female reporter might be prone to making gaffs?
Regularly dressing up in blackface isn't a gaffe. A gaffe is a momentary failure of self-control, or a situational gap in knowledge. You blurt the wrong thing, or don't know which fork to use for the soup course. You do something unintentional in the moment, that is embarrassing in the moment.

Planning to wear blackface to a costume party, executing that plan, enjoying the party, posing for photos in blackface at the party, and then years later regretting those party photos being made public, is not a gaffe. It's an attitude about the propriety of blackface, and the social backlash from having that attitude becoming public knowledge.
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Old 19th September 2019, 12:03 PM   #44
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I could forgive for the first offense; getting carried away in dressing for a costume party is something that is pretty damn common.
I would put it on the level of Prince Harry's Nazi Uniform fiasco:Stupid but forgivable since there was no real malice involved.
But if it is a case of repeated offenses.....something else is at play here.
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Old 19th September 2019, 12:10 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Trudeau’s got his work cut out if he wants to survive this:

Justin Trudeau: Canada PM in 2001 brownface yearbook photo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49749851
How DARE he dress as someone he's not?
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Old 19th September 2019, 01:10 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I could forgive for the first offense; getting carried away in dressing for a costume party is something that is pretty damn common.
I would put it on the level of Prince Harry's Nazi Uniform fiasco:Stupid but forgivable since there was no real malice involved.
But if it is a case of repeated offenses.....something else is at play here.
Remember, Trudeau also went to India (on a sort of "working vacation") last year, where he had himself photographed wearing traditional Indian clothes while meeting politicians there. At the time he was criticized by some as overdoing it.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4037948/t...ndian-outfits/
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Old 19th September 2019, 02:31 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Remember, Trudeau also went to India (on a sort of "working vacation") last year, where he had himself photographed wearing traditional Indian clothes while meeting politicians there. At the time he was criticized by some as overdoing it.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4037948/t...ndian-outfits/
I hope you are not comparing wearing traditional clothes of a nation you are visiting with wearing blackface.
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Old 19th September 2019, 02:39 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Quote:
Remember, Trudeau also went to India (on a sort of "working vacation") last year, where he had himself photographed wearing traditional Indian clothes while meeting politicians there. At the time he was criticized by some as overdoing it.
I hope you are not comparing wearing traditional clothes of a nation you are visiting with wearing blackface.
Keep in mind that it wasn't just a case of Trudeau donning traditional Indian clothes for a quick 30 second photo-op, or wearing something at the request of the hosts. He was wearing that stuff while the Indian politicians were wearing suits and ties.

I am not saying the 2 situations have same in impact. (The blackface is a much more serious problem than his clothing choice while in India.) What I'm suggesting is that it points to a sort of tone-deafness in his dealings with others.
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Old 19th September 2019, 02:59 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
How DARE he dress as someone he's not?
Dressing up as someone he’s not is clearly not the issue. It’s the blacking up that people are having a problem with. Maybe you don’t have a problem with it but at least identify the issue correctly.
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Old 19th September 2019, 03:03 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I hope you are not comparing wearing traditional clothes of a nation you are visiting with wearing blackface.
It was considered pretty weird. Maybe even patronizing as he swanned around in “ethnic” garb and everyone in India he met were wearing suits and ties such as he would be expected to wear if he was meeting foreign dignitaries.
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Old 19th September 2019, 05:20 PM   #51
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It's all okay, he couldn't help himself, he's a victim of privilege.
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Old 19th September 2019, 05:23 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
It's all okay, he couldn't help himself, he's a victim of privilege.
As a fellow sufferer of white privilege, I feel his pain.
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Old 19th September 2019, 05:58 PM   #53
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As much as I detest Trudeau, this was about 20 odd years ago, before it got so controversial.

I think some people would have a heart attack if they went to an All Blacks test in NZ.
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Old 19th September 2019, 06:45 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Now there is video of Trudeau in black face from a completely separate incident.

Does anyone think he might end up resigning over this?
He probably leaked it himself to get the sympathy of Conservative voters.
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Old 19th September 2019, 07:05 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It was considered pretty weird. Maybe even patronizing as he swanned around in “ethnic” garb and everyone in India he met were wearing suits and ties such as he would be expected to wear if he was meeting foreign dignitaries.
On second though, It was not a brilliant thing to do.
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Old 19th September 2019, 07:08 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
As much as I detest Trudeau, this was about 20 odd years ago, before it got so controversial.

I think some people would have a heart attack if they went to an All Blacks test in NZ.
If it had just been the one incident I would agree. But if it was repeated offenses that is something else.
And even 20 years ago, wearing blackface was totally unacceptable.
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Old 19th September 2019, 07:15 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
As much as I detest Trudeau, this was about 20 odd years ago, before it got so controversial.

I think some people would have a heart attack if they went to an All Blacks test in NZ.
I don’t think the All Blacks fans are pretending to be black people are they? If not, I don’t see the relevance.

In fact, even if they are I don’t see the relevance.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 19th September 2019, 07:41 PM   #58
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Much ado about nothing. For **** sakes, people. It was an Arabian themed costume party.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/justin-tru...223215046.html

Over the top? Someone getting into the spirit of the moment?

Whatever. Have an in depth look at the other candidates. Singh, cavorting with terrorists. May, willing to put women's right to choose back on the table. Scheer, climate denying, misogynistic, douchebag . . .
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Old 20th September 2019, 03:03 AM   #59
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Meh, whatever.

We all know Trudeau isn't a racist... not even close.

If this is what the Conservative party is throwing at Trudeau, then it's pretty damned obvious they're getting desperate at this point. Desperate because they know Ballbag Scheer sunk their boat the minute he opened his piehole and showed the world his true colours.
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Old 20th September 2019, 04:02 AM   #60
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Oh man, the poor Canadians! They must be so embarrassed!
To have their Prime Minister apologize in public for something he did!
The American president would never do something as humiliating as that!!!
USA! USA! USA!

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I AGREE


Now, I'm not black or colored and I'm not an American, but I don't really see what's the fuss with blackface. If a white person dresses up in blackface for Halloween or a black person does the opposite, no harm's done, in my opinion.
The real racists don't seem to do that, and I would actually have enjoyed to see the khaki&polo Nazis at Charlottesville dress up in blackface and grass skirts for their rally. It would be akin to the super happy fun Nazis in Boston all dressing up in drag for their straight pride parade.
I think that both groups of Nazis are mortally afraid that they might enjoy it ...
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Old 20th September 2019, 05:17 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Much ado about nothing. For **** sakes, people. It was an Arabian themed costume party.
Exactly. This is just feigned outrage; a storm in a tea cup. It is just people looking for any excuse they can find to justify their hatred of Trudeau.
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Old 20th September 2019, 05:31 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Much ado about nothing. For **** sakes, people. It was an Arabian themed costume party.
Exactly. This is just feigned outrage; a storm in a tea cup. It is just people looking for any excuse they can find to justify their hatred of Trudeau.

He might have avoided the scandal if he had used Ceylon tea instead of black shoe polish.
The color would have been much closer to Arabian.
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Old 20th September 2019, 06:44 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
He might have avoided the scandal if he had used Ceylon tea instead of black shoe polish.
The color would have been much closer to Arabian.
I suspect that even white shoe polish would be considered just as "scandalous".
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:27 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Meh, whatever.

We all know Trudeau isn't a racist... not even close.

If this is what the Conservative party is throwing at Trudeau, then it's pretty damned obvious they're getting desperate at this point. Desperate because they know Ballbag Scheer sunk their boat the minute he opened his piehole and showed the world his true colours.
Keep in mind that its not just people in the conservative party that are attacking Trudeau over the issue. The NDP leader (Jagmeet Singh, born to parents who immigrated from India) has also criticized Trudeau over the incident.
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:39 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Oh man, the poor Canadians! They must be so embarrassed!
To have their Prime Minister apologize in public for something he did!
The American president would never do something as humiliating as that!!!
There is nothing wrong with apologizing for mistakes of the past. (It would be nice if the mistakes were never done in the first place, or if the person didn't wait until after the problems were revealed but instead was proactive.)
Quote:
Now, I'm not black or colored and I'm not an American, but I don't really see what's the fuss with blackface. If a white person dresses up in blackface for Halloween or a black person does the opposite, no harm's done, in my opinion.
I'm white myself, but I can understand the complaints a minority might have over the issue.

Not all 'racism' has to involve neo-nazi flags and public lynching to be considered bad. Even the use of certain words or actions (like using the n-word, telling ethnic jokes or dressing in black face) could be considered racist. For example, you might not be insulted by Trump's use of the label 'Pocohantis', but to native Americans familiar with the history behind it, its quite derogatory.

Blackface is considered 'bad' because of its association with old minstrel shows back in the 1800s/1900s, when white actors would use blackface to play black characters, and portray them in a very negative way. Even if Trudeau wasn't attempting to do exactly the same thing, the association is still there.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/world...rnd/index.html
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:41 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Dressing up as someone he’s not is clearly not the issue. It’s the blacking up that people are having a problem with. Maybe you don’t have a problem with it but at least identify the issue correctly.
I did identify it correctly. The face paint is part of the costume.

People need to stop getting offended by everything and focus on actual issues.
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:50 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
As much as I detest Trudeau, this was about 20 odd years ago, before it got so controversial.
It is possible that certain things that were once seen as 'normal' eventually become problematic. (The use of certain sports team names, for example.). But I think you are wrong here.

Are you familiar with the Ted Danson/Whoopi goldberg blackface incident?

It took place in the early 90s. Danson was criticized over the incident. So even 20 years ago (when Trudeau was doing his little dressup), blackface would have been seen in a negative light by many.
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:21 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I did identify it correctly. The face paint is part of the costume.

People need to stop getting offended by everything and focus on actual issues.
Whatever people need to do, in your opinion, the point is the “blacking up”, not the impersonation of other people. That’s considered by many to be “beyond the pale”. Trudeau himself called it racist, so you’re just playing games by pretending not to even notice the issue.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:30 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
There is nothing wrong with apologizing for mistakes of the past. (It would be nice if the mistakes were never done in the first place, or if the person didn't wait until after the problems were revealed but instead was proactive.)

You've been Poe'd!

Quote:
I'm white myself, but I can understand the complaints a minority might have over the issue.

Not all 'racism' has to involve neo-nazi flags and public lynching to be considered bad. Even the use of certain words or actions (like using the n-word, telling ethnic jokes or dressing in black face) could be considered racist. For example, you might not be insulted by Trump's use of the label 'Pocohantis', but to native Americans familiar with the history behind it, its quite derogatory.

I might be insulted by the spelling!

Quote:
Blackface is considered 'bad' because of its association with old minstrel shows back in the 1800s/1900s, when white actors would use blackface to play black characters, and portray them in a very negative way.

The old minstrel shows were very often racist ... as were the Amos 'n' Andy shows without the blackface.

Quote:
Even if Trudeau wasn't attempting to do exactly the same thing, the association is still there.

Trudeau wasn't even remotely attempting to do the same thing. The association may have been there, but it was probably only there for Americans with their history of slavery and Jim Crow and not for Canadians.

Quote:

Context matters!
(Trudeau doesn't appear to be a racist, he didn't do anything racist, and I applaud him for apologizing anyway. Trump could learn a lot from him, including how to make Melania smile!)


ETA:
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
(It would be nice if the mistakes were never done in the first place, or if the person didn't wait until after the problems were revealed but instead was proactive.)

Trudeau actually was proactive. When he realized that some people found his use of blackface offensive, he apologized for instances that hadn't yet been brought to the public's attention!
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:37 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
There is nothing wrong with apologizing for mistakes of the past. (It would be nice if the mistakes were never done in the first place, or if the person didn't wait until after the problems were revealed but instead was proactive.)

I'm white myself, but I can understand the complaints a minority might have over the issue.

Not all 'racism' has to involve neo-nazi flags and public lynching to be considered bad. Even the use of certain words or actions (like using the n-word, telling ethnic jokes or dressing in black face) could be considered racist. For example, you might not be insulted by Trump's use of the label 'Pocohantis', but to native Americans familiar with the history behind it, its quite derogatory.

Blackface is considered 'bad' because of its association with old minstrel shows back in the 1800s/1900s, when white actors would use blackface to play black characters, and portray them in a very negative way. Even if Trudeau wasn't attempting to do exactly the same thing, the association is still there.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/world...rnd/index.html
The Irony is that Negro performers had to put on blackface when doing the minstrel numbers.
Blackface has been dead for along time; Up until 1945 blackface numbers were common in Hollywood films, after 1945 they vanished. Oh, they still had minstreal numbers but they were done without the make up and with all racial connotations removed.
The 1954 Judy Garland version of "A Star Is Born" has one of the "whiteface" Minstrel numbers in it.
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:39 PM   #71
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Speaking of ironies, the chief of the VIking Tribe in my local SCA group is an African American, and no one sees anything strange about it.
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:42 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Keep in mind that its not just people in the conservative party that are attacking Trudeau over the issue. The NDP leader (Jagmeet Singh, born to parents who immigrated from India) has also criticized Trudeau over the incident.

Trudeau is damaged goods;don't see even the Liberals win the election how he can govern effectively.
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:45 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I did identify it correctly. The face paint is part of the costume.

People need to stop getting offended by everything and focus on actual issues.
Let's just look the other way and pretend it never happened...…….

Sorry, the world does not work like that.
And I have to wonder if the people making excuses for Trudeau would be equally saying it should not be an issue it it were a Conservative politician caught in the scandal.
The worst thing about blind party loyalty is you end up defending some really stupid crap out of loyalty.
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Old 20th September 2019, 01:17 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Keep in mind that its not just people in the conservative party that are attacking Trudeau over the issue. The NDP leader (Jagmeet Singh, born to parents who immigrated from India) has also criticized Trudeau over the incident.

Of course he is.

They're all going to pounce on this opportunity to attack because they're all fighting for the same thing, his job.

I'd like to see our politics not go down this infantile path, and instead, stick to fighting over things like policies, solutions, plans, leadership abilities.

But I guess that's too much to ask?
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Old 20th September 2019, 01:41 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Of course he is.

They're all going to pounce on this opportunity to attack because they're all fighting for the same thing, his job.

I'd like to see our politics not go down this infantile path, and instead, stick to fighting over things like policies, solutions, plans, leadership abilities.

But I guess that's too much to ask?

SO the character of a politician should not be an issue?
Donald Trump would just love you...….
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Old 20th September 2019, 01:47 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Of course he is.

They're all going to pounce on this opportunity to attack because they're all fighting for the same thing, his job.

I'd like to see our politics not go down this infantile path, and instead, stick to fighting over things like policies, solutions, plans,
I myself prefer to cast my vote based on policies and plans. If I happen to vote against Trudeau, its because I don't like his policies regarding the deficit, defense, etc.

But, keep in mind that that sort of mudslinging does come from all political parties. Even the Liberals have engaged in it.

Quote:
...leadership abilities.
Ahhh... you se, for some people the whole 'blackface' thing does tie in to 'leadership abilities'.

To me, Trudeau has shown a pattern of being tone-deaf towards certain social issues... His clothing choices on his trip to India, his handling of a native protester who crashed a fundraising event, his complaints about female circumcision being 'barbaric'. Those types of things do suggest his 'leadership abilities' may be a bit lacking.

Now to me, that wouldn't necessarily disqualify him when I decide who to vote for (since as I pointed out, policy is a more important factor), but its not something I would completely ignore either.
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Old 20th September 2019, 01:49 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SO the character of a politician should not be an issue?
Donald Trump would just love you...….

Context is everything.


We all know Trudeau is not a racist. If I suspected that Trudeau might be a racist prick, I would be taking this blackface thing a lot more seriously and in a completely different context.



As for your president, that a-hole is in a whole other category of his own.
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Old 20th September 2019, 01:57 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by AnonyMoose View Post
Context is everything.


We all know Trudeau is not a racist. If I suspected that Trudeau might be a racist prick, I would be taking this blackface thing a lot more seriously and in a completely different context.



As for your president, that a-hole is in a whole other category of his own.
Nice dodge.
Trump or Trudeau does not matter;you just basically said a candidate' character and behavior are not legitimate issues in an election.
Sorry, but your candidate got caught in a very embrassing scandle that, even if he is not a racist, certainly casts doubts about his judgement and his character, and that is legit issue in any election.
I repeat, would you make that defense if it was an opposition guy who got caught with his hand in the wringer?
I am not saying this should cost Trudeau his job;I am saying his judgement is here is a legitimate issue in an election.
This whole "only issues should matter" routine is always the cry of his supporters when a politican gets caught up in a scandle like this.
It is an asinine position, frankly.
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Old 20th September 2019, 02:00 PM   #79
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I have no horse in this race, but just think the idea that a candidate's character and judgement should not be an issue is a stupid idea.
If anything I hope Trudeau wins;partly because I find Mrs.Trudeau so easy to look at...
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Old 20th September 2019, 02:03 PM   #80
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To be honest, I'm not really sure if some of your comments were made to be serious or sarcastic...
Originally Posted by dann View Post
Quote:
Even if Trudeau wasn't attempting to do exactly the same thing, the association is still there.
Trudeau wasn't even remotely attempting to do the same thing. The association may have been there, but it was probably only there for Americans with their history of slavery and Jim Crow and not for Canadians.
Its true that Canada doesn't have the same history with regards to slavery, Jim Crow laws, etc. But, we do share a lot of the same cultural elements with the U.S. (common usage of English, American TV regularly broadcast in Canada, etc.), and the U.S. is one of our biggest sources of immigrants. Plus, we have had our own issues with racism (including having multiple chapters of the KKK in Canada.)

For those reasons, the whole "blackface=wrong" should apply to both sides of the border.
Quote:
Context matters!
(Trudeau doesn't appear to be a racist
Probably true. But then, the label 'racist' is rather... tricky. Is a person a racist if they make an occasional ethnic joke but have no problem working with or voting for a minority?

I certainly don't think Trudeau's policies are racist, which is more important than what the voices in his head say to him.
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