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Old 19th September 2019, 11:14 PM   #1
cullennz
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Colt to stop making AR-15 as the market is saturated

That must be re-assuring for US citizens..............

Surprised they didn't chuck some fake "civic responsibility" excuse in there for the PR.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americ...re-are-so-many

Quote:
US AR-15 maker Colt will stop producing the firearm for civilians because there are so many

Colt, a US firearms company that traces its history to the 1830s, announced it would suspend the production of rifles for the civilian market - including the AR-15, a weapon infamous for its popularity among the country's mass shooters.

There are already so many of the weapons in the country that the market is saturated, the manufacturer's president said in a statement, and executives decided "it is good sense to follow consumer demand."

"Given this level of manufacturing capacity, we believe there is adequate supply for modern sporting rifles for the foreseeable future," Dennis Veilleux said, adding that the pivot isn't permanent............
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 19th September 2019, 11:42 PM   #2
The Great Zaganza
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gun makers need a gimmick ...

like bullets with wireless cameras, so you can livestream how they perforate your victims.
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Old 20th September 2019, 01:24 AM   #3
cullennz
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
gun makers need a gimmick ...

like bullets with wireless cameras, so you can livestream how they perforate your victims.
I completely understand how stupid the guns don't kill people, people kill people argument is, but pushing it to see how gunmakers control Facebooks personal live streaming of Facebook users.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 20th September 2019, 04:06 AM   #4
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"Made in America" is not exactly a seal of quality when it comes to guns.
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Old 20th September 2019, 04:34 AM   #5
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AR-15's are practically commodity items now. Colt put itself into a position where they aren't really appealing to anyone. Colt always held itself out as the "premium" AR brand, being that they were the official supplier of M16's to the US Government. There was a time, in the early days, when Colts were regarded as being a notch above all others in quality. But nowadays, there are equally high quality, if not higher quality, rifles available from several reputable brands for less money. There's no reason to pay a higher price for the pony logo, unless you are some fanboy or collector.

Colt was heavily reliant on these government contracts and civilian sales were always an afterthought. When they lost these contracts, they were in a extremely tough spot.

The AR market is saturated, and Colt isn't competitive.
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Old 20th September 2019, 06:28 AM   #6
plague311
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Didn't Colt file for bankruptcy recently? I wonder if this is apart of that in a hopes to drum up business.
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Old 20th September 2019, 07:07 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Didn't Colt file for bankruptcy recently? I wonder if this is apart of that in a hopes to drum up business.
Yes, in 2015 after losing a big contract for government M4's. Colt's fate has long been dependent on its ability to land government contracts for M16 and M4 rifles, and they have gone through cycles of losing and gaining contracts.

More info about their recent ceasing of civilian production. Seems that they have landed a big contract to produce rifles for US allied nations, though not the actual US military.

https://thedefensepost.com/2019/09/2...-13-countries/

Sounds to me like they are ceasing production of civilian AR-15's so they can use the production lines for these contract military rifles.

So I guess we can give colt a few more years of viability until FN snatches this contract too.
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:18 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
gun makers need a gimmick ...

like bullets with wireless cameras, so you can livestream how they perforate your victims.
You don't mean Hornady's bullet-cam do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoGRlS53U_k














(it was an April fools joke)
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:38 PM   #9
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What Colt didn't say is that while the market is saturated, other manufacturers have no trouble selling their AR - platforms because their hardware is superior to what Colt has been selling, at a lower price point in many cases.

The other thing going against them is that if someone wants to drop major cash on a 5.56 rifle, buyers are going to HK (MR223) and FN (SCAR 16S)
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:51 PM   #10
The Great Zaganza
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Originally Posted by Tormac View Post
You don't mean Hornady's bullet-cam do you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoGRlS53U_k
....
... nothing new under the sun..










(it was an April fools joke)[/quote]
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Old 20th September 2019, 12:57 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
AR-15's are practically commodity items now. Colt put itself into a position where they aren't really appealing to anyone. Colt always held itself out as the "premium" AR brand, being that they were the official supplier of M16's to the US Government. There was a time, in the early days, when Colts were regarded as being a notch above all others in quality. But nowadays, there are equally high quality, if not higher quality, rifles available from several reputable brands for less money. There's no reason to pay a higher price for the pony logo, unless you are some fanboy or collector.

Colt was heavily reliant on these government contracts and civilian sales were always an afterthought. When they lost these contracts, they were in a extremely tough spot.

The AR market is saturated, and Colt isn't competitive.

Colt by the terms of thei rlicensing of the AR 15 rights to the Government still gets a fee for the non Colt made AR 15 based weapons, but not nearly as much as they would have if they had actually manufactured the weapon, and COlt is hurting.


Of course it is amazing that for over 15 years AR 15 based weapons have been the basic shoulder arm for the US Military; if a grandfather who was in Nam were handed the M4 his grandson is using in the US Army he would have no problem taking it out to a rifle range, loading it, and shooting it.

And it is really amazing given the M 16's rocky start in the mid 60's where it developed jamming problems (due not to the rifle itself but stupid changes the US Army ordnance department made to it)
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Old 20th September 2019, 01:00 PM   #12
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I wonder if Colt regrets dropping out of the repro 19th century gun market;they don't make repros of the original Colt revolvers.laeving that to other companies but they sell big particualry to reenactors ;I own a Colt 1861 Model Cap and Ball Revolver myself....
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Old 20th September 2019, 01:29 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Surprised they didn't chuck some fake "civic responsibility" excuse in there for the PR.
PR with whom? Gun buyers? I don't think you thought about who their market is.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 06:52 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Colt by the terms of thei rlicensing of the AR 15 rights to the Government still gets a fee for the non Colt made AR 15 based weapons, but not nearly as much as they would have if they had actually manufactured the weapon, and COlt is hurting.


Of course it is amazing that for over 15 years AR 15 based weapons have been the basic shoulder arm for the US Military; if a grandfather who was in Nam were handed the M4 his grandson is using in the US Army he would have no problem taking it out to a rifle range, loading it, and shooting it.

And it is really amazing given the M 16's rocky start in the mid 60's where it developed jamming problems (due not to the rifle itself but stupid changes the US Army ordnance department made to it)
My understanding was it was a bit of both, the messier powder the ordnance put in but also the not having chrome lined barrels like they wanted to add but stoner didn't bother with.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:10 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
My understanding was it was a bit of both, the messier powder the ordnance put in but also the not having chrome lined barrels like they wanted to add but stoner didn't bother with.
The Atlantic had a nice write up of this whole debacle. The conclusion of the author is that it was basically the ordinance department's fault. Stoner warned that changing the powder would affect performance, but was overruled. They even allowed Colt to continue testing the rifles with older spec'd ammo while knowing it was going to be issued with the newer ammo and despite clear concerns of significant performance issues.

The rifle saw limited use by the ARVN, US Army special forces, and USAF before the ammunition specification was changed it it functioned extremely well. Unfortunately, the change in ammo also coincided with widespread adoption of the rifle for all fighting forces, so most early experiences with the rifle were negative.

Military Ball powder was reformulated in 1970 to deal with the heavy fouling and that powder is still used today with good results. The overwhelming evidence is that the hasty change to the dirtier burning powder was the culprit.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-story/545153/

https://web.archive.org/web/20130722...6prop.html#nb7
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:13 AM   #16
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The utter

The AR-15 being THE gun in the gun control debate always struck me as odd. The M-16 family of rifles was hated by gun enthusiasts for the longest time; seen as nothing but a cheap toy plastic gun that shot a souped up varmint round forced on the military to be more "humane." Hell there was an urban legend back in the late 80s and early 90s that the M-16 was literally manufactured by Mattel.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Hell there was an urban legend back in the late 80s and early 90s that the M-16 was literally manufactured by Mattel.
It's true!



Meanwhile, in UKland, obviously we got...


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Old 23rd September 2019, 10:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The utter

The AR-15 being THE gun in the gun control debate always struck me as odd. The M-16 family of rifles was hated by gun enthusiasts for the longest time; seen as nothing but a cheap toy plastic gun that shot a souped up varmint round forced on the military to be more "humane." Hell there was an urban legend back in the late 80s and early 90s that the M-16 was literally manufactured by Mattel.
The one I had in Basic in 1971 was made by General Motors. And we did have 'cruits asking when they were going to give us a real one.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 10:16 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The one I had in Basic in 1971 was made by General Motors. And we did have 'cruits asking when they were going to give us a real one.
Hydramatic division of General Motors.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 01:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Hydramatic division of General Motors.
Yes, that sounds right. It's been almost 50 years after all!
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:05 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Hydramatic division of General Motors.
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Yes, that sounds right. It's been almost 50 years after all!

It's sort of interesting, the areas that big auto manufacturers spread out into. Military production not so surprising, of course, but by way of example I once had a fourteen ft. fiberglass daysailer, sloop rigged and surprisingly spacious and comfortable for its size (seated four without difficulty), which always caught people's attention when they asked me what kind it was and I told them it was a Chrysler.

To add to its uniqueness it was fitted with bilge boards instead of the more common centerboard. Quite a handy little sailboat.

You don't think of Chrysler being in the small sailboat market, but there it was.
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Old 23rd September 2019, 07:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Hell there was an urban legend back in the late 80s and early 90s that the M-16 was literally manufactured by Mattel.
For fun, in the lousy John Wayne movie “The Green Berets” at several points the soldiers are carrying Mattel versions of the M-16. Wayne even smashes one against a tree. You can see the speaker on the magazine. Apparently genuine M-16s were in short supply when the movie was made.
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