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Old 9th September 2019, 11:24 PM   #41
Lurch
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Ghettoization is not always externally imposed.
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Old 9th September 2019, 11:25 PM   #42
Craig B
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If you want a rough rule of thumb, the Ultra Orthodox want to separate themselves out from society as a whole, and Orthodox do not ...
There are also differnces in interpretation of the law;most Orthodox , for instance interepert the old testament laws about dress differently then the Hasidim/Ultra Orthodox do;which is why the Hasidim have the distinctive dress.
To the non-Jewish eye, Hasidic dress doesn't look like the clothing of the Mediterranean lands from Old Testament times. It looks like the garments worn in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the seventeenth century. Can anyone explain why that should be, if this clothing is designed to fulfil biblical requirements?

Last edited by Craig B; 9th September 2019 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 10th September 2019, 12:59 AM   #43
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You are asking why a religious belief is not logical and rational?
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:08 AM   #44
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
You are asking why a religious belief is not logical and rational?
I thought the same thing. We're both going to burn in hell.
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Old 10th September 2019, 01:13 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
To the non-Jewish eye, Hasidic dress doesn't look like the clothing of the Mediterranean lands from Old Testament times. It looks like the garments worn in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the seventeenth century. Can anyone explain why that should be, if this clothing is designed to fulfil biblical requirements?
I think it's more like a frozen-in-time thing. The clothing would be at home in the Jewish ghettos post WWI in Europe and in North America. In that way it's similar to the frozen-in-time look of "modern" Turkey after Ataturk.

Lyubavich WAS, however, a town in the Polish-Lithuanian area of Eastern Europe. After one local war or another when the Russian empire absorbed it, they moved the sect to Poland. They moved again post-WWI, this time to the US.

Most Hasidim known in the US are Lubavichers or "Chabad".

Trigger Warning.... Politically Incorrect Jew on Jew Humor follows.


The best description - only allowed to be said by other Jews - I ever heard was by Gilbert Gottfried on Howard Stern:

Gottfried: The Hassid! Don't get me started! A bunch of show-offs!
Stern (or Robin): Show offs? The guys on the school bus coming across the Manhattan Bridge every morning?
Gottfried: Yeah, always showing off.... "Look at me, I'm wearing three vests and two sports coats and two hats! Bet you wish you had as many clothes as I do."
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Old 10th September 2019, 02:04 AM   #46
Craig B
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I think it's more like a frozen-in-time thing. The clothing would be at home in the Jewish ghettos post WWI in Europe and in North America. In that way it's similar to the frozen-in-time look of "modern" Turkey after Ataturk.
That seems very plausible, and I can think of other examples, like the clothing worn by the representatives of Japan signing the capitulation in 1945.

But if the Hasidim were capable of adapting themselves and their scriptural requirements to the sartorial ways of early modern Lithuania, presumably they can do likewise in 21st century USA. Even if they "freeze in" that time in later decades. A modern secular appearance would be as much "at home" now in Jewish districts of the USA as fur trimmed caps were in seventeenth century E Europe.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:09 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
These particular folks are basically putting themselves in one.
Except of course when they take over some area others already live.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:12 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Except of course when they take over some area others already live.
That would require leaving where they now, which is running against their religious inertia.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:13 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
That seems very plausible, and I can think of other examples, like the clothing worn by the representatives of Japan signing the capitulation in 1945.

But if the Hasidim were capable of adapting themselves and their scriptural requirements to the sartorial ways of early modern Lithuania, presumably they can do likewise in 21st century USA. Even if they "freeze in" that time in later decades. A modern secular appearance would be as much "at home" now in Jewish districts of the USA as fur trimmed caps were in seventeenth century E Europe.
Clothing is a statement, it says what you belong to in terms of culture. It is not about religious mandates, it is about an imposed cultural divide.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:14 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
That would require leaving where they now, which is running against their religious inertia.
Not at all, see Rockland county NY. They are taking over towns there and making them unlikeable for the current residents. Not to dissimilar to white supremacist attempts in some western states but with more success.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:19 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Not at all, see Rockland county NY. They are taking over towns there and making them unlikeable for the current residents. Not to dissimilar to white supremacist attempts in some western states but with more success.
Where did they come from before they went to Rockland county?
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:25 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Clothing is a statement, it says what you belong to in terms of culture. It is not about religious mandates, it is about an imposed cultural divide.
Imposed including self imposed, evidently. The object that Hasidic dress keeps its wearers aloof from is presumably the Enlightenment. The USA is firstborn child of the Enlightenment, while the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth failed to adapt to that movement in the eighteenth century, collapsed, and was dismembered by its predatory neighbours. I know which culture would attract me more, if I had to choose one at the present time.
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Old 10th September 2019, 03:28 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Where did they come from before they went to Rockland county?
New York City. But of course they are not able to take over such a large city so they pick towns were they can achieve a plurality more easily.
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