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Old 16th September 2019, 07:09 AM   #161
Thermal
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
We talking just US laws now? Because I'm better at the myriad Swedish laws broken by that site.
See, that's interesting, thanks. How would Sweden handle an organization like the Proud boys? Does their actual structure violate law? Not street fighting, which they publicly do not endorse. Is 8chan available to view in Sweden?

I referred to the US because we have an imminent problem, that we have built in catch-22s for dealing with. Makes it trickier for us to have a tangible plan of action
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Old 16th September 2019, 07:16 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not locked up for using them: used as a self-defense claim.

'The Jews will not replace us!'
'Your honor, I was defending myself against a threat of violence'.
'Acquitted'.
"Down with the bourgeoisie!"
*gets beaten up by some rich guy*
"Your honor, I was defending myself against a threat of violence."
"Acquitted."

But even assuming you can find a good legal way of doing what you want to do, how you gonna get the law changed? DDoS just sounds easier anyway.
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Old 16th September 2019, 07:16 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
We talking just US laws now? Because I'm better at the myriad Swedish laws broken by that site.

I haven't been around 8chan, but I do know that back when I was still hanging around 4chan, it was rapidly becoming a haven for child pornography, which is the main reason I quit hanging out there. That alone should have been enough to get it shut down.
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Old 16th September 2019, 07:25 AM   #164
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Though of course I simply wouldn't trust our law enforcement with these kind of laws. They wouldn't be used against the white supremacists who would be the ones enforcing them.

See how an attempt at this destroyed an innocent mans life.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...i-surveillance

Though to be fair he did seem to think the second amendment applied to blacks.
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Old 16th September 2019, 07:31 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
"Down with the bourgeoisie!"
*gets beaten up by some rich guy*
"Your honor, I was defending myself against a threat of violence."
"Acquitted."
Yup, it's a double edged sword. Think the ones who might actually be non aggressive might come out ahead? I do.

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But even assuming you can find a good legal way of doing what you want to do, how you gonna get the law changed? DDoS just sounds easier anyway.
It might require a revisitation of fighting words and provocation in the courts. I would prefer that to a crimethink state.

DDos is easier, but temporary. Sony and the others went back up. And i believe the courts found it to be vandalism? (not sure). I'd rather have it in the people's hands but give us a little more latitude.
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Old 16th September 2019, 07:38 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Though of course I simply wouldn't trust our law enforcement with these kind of laws. They wouldn't be used against the white supremacists who would be the ones enforcing them.

See how an attempt at this destroyed an innocent mans life.

Nothing at all new there, though. The FBI and law enforcement has long targeted black activists, particularly those exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, labeling them as "terrorists". Look at what they did to the Black Panthers -- infiltration, agents provocateur, and outright assassination.
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Old 16th September 2019, 07:44 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yup, it's a double edged sword. Think the ones who might actually be non aggressive might come out ahead? I do.
I think the ones who are most aggressive, the state, would come out ahead. I don't see how that's an improvement.

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It might require a revisitation of fighting words and provocation in the courts. I would prefer that to a crimethink state.
Talking about a crimethink state, some people got sentenced to jail in France for transporting left-wing literature. The state here has gone entirely mad. It's never a good idea to give the state more repressive measures.

Quote:
DDos is easier, but temporary. Sony and the others went back up. And i believe the courts found it to be vandalism? (not sure). I'd rather have it in the people's hands but give us a little more latitude.
They already have it in their hands. Who do you think launches DDos's? Reptilian aliens from outer space?
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Old 16th September 2019, 08:00 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
I think the ones who are most aggressive, the state, would come out ahead. I don't see how that's an improvement.



Talking about a crimethink state, some people got sentenced to jail in France for transporting left-wing literature. The state here has gone entirely mad. It's never a good idea to give the state more repressive measures.
How are you seeing this as giving the state more power? It takes away their authority to protect a nazi under freedom of speech, and turns it into a civilian dispute, like petty disorderly persons. You wouldn't like the ability to smack a nazi, and claim his ideology was an assault?

It would get tricky in law enforcement making the same claim that civilians assaulted them. Not like that is already the status quo or anything, right?



Quote:
They already have it in their hands. Who do you think launches DDos's? Reptilian aliens from outer space?
But if it is criminal behavior (again, not sure), you don't have much to legally stand on. I'm trying to think of ways that the white power pussies can be dealt with without going all Mad Max.
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Old 16th September 2019, 08:02 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
But if it is criminal behavior (again, not sure), you don't have much to legally stand on. I'm trying to think of ways that the white power pussies can be dealt with without going all Mad Max.
And if we locked up the nazis, were would we get our cops from?
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Old 16th September 2019, 08:13 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
How are you seeing this as giving the state more power? It takes away their authority to protect a nazi under freedom of speech, and turns it into a civilian dispute, like petty disorderly persons. You wouldn't like the ability to smack a nazi, and claim his ideology was an assault?
I already have the ability to smack a nazi. What I mostly don't want is for a nazi to have the ability to smack me and claim "my ideology" was an assault. The entire reason to smack nazis is to stop them from smacking you (or comrades or migrants or ...) so why would you want to make it easier for them?

Quote:
But if it is criminal behavior (again, not sure), you don't have much to legally stand on. I'm trying to think of ways that the white power pussies can be dealt with without going all Mad Max.
But I like Mad Marx
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Old 16th September 2019, 08:21 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
I already have the ability to smack a nazi. What I mostly don't want is for a nazi to have the ability to smack me and claim "my ideology" was an assault. The entire reason to smack nazis is to stop them from smacking you (or comrades or migrants or ...) so why would you want to make it easier for them?
If you have the ability, then so do they. What I propose is to remove the state another step. If I get into a fight with a guy with a Pepe pin, and I throw the first punch, it would not be assault, but a PDP as a mutual fight. Dulls the edge of marching around with swastikas when you don't have as much police protection.

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But I like Mad Marx
Cool, except for the whole blowing heads off thing. Gives the wrong impression.
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Old 16th September 2019, 08:51 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
If you have the ability, then so do they.
Thank you Captain Obvious. They even have the ability to kill people, but then so do other people. ETA: They haven't killed anyone since.

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What I propose is to remove the state another step. If I get into a fight with a guy with a Pepe pin, and I throw the first punch, it would not be assault,
You can write the law? Cool!

Quote:
Cool, except for the whole blowing heads off thing. Gives the wrong impression.
Interesting that you don't have the same objection to the sword or the whip.
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Old 16th September 2019, 12:21 PM   #173
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How about lawsuits against white supremacists?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/16/u...r-lawsuit.html

https://www.integrityfirstforamerica...ttesville-case

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/17/u...y-stormer.html

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/artic...virginia-rally

Hit these white supremacists where it hurts most, their bank balances. Most of the scumbags who run sites like 4chan, 8chan and the Daily Stormer are not rich and powerful people, they are in the average to low socio-economic demographic (and probably the average to low IQ range as well). Even defending themselves against a lawsuit is going to take a crapload of financial commitment. If these scumbags see that they risk losing everything, it might give them some pause. On the other side of the law suit, well funded organisations such as the SPLC can either help to bankroll a lawsuit against white supremacists or will take direct legal action themselves.
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Old 16th September 2019, 12:28 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Nothing at all new there, though. The FBI and law enforcement has long targeted black activists, particularly those exercising their 2nd Amendment rights, labeling them as "terrorists". Look at what they did to the Black Panthers -- infiltration, agents provocateur, and outright assassination.
They're still doing the highlighted to activists (any sort of left-wing activism, including charity-type activities) and journalists to this day in my city:

https://www.courthousenews.com/judge...-on-activists/

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/...hought/566264/
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Old 16th September 2019, 12:31 PM   #175
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There we go. Running them broke is a legit and legal method of deplatforming. Public ridicule, especially the sort where the University of Florida outwitted Spencer and dropped him right out of the limelight, is another solid tactic

Eta: was supposed to be replying to smartcooky. I hate cell phones
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Old 16th September 2019, 12:43 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
There we go. Running them broke is a legit and legal method of deplatforming. Public ridicule, especially the sort where the University of Florida outwitted Spencer and dropped him right out of the limelight, is another solid tactic

Eta: was supposed to be replying to smartcooky. I hate cell phones
So that is what our higher educational institutions should be doing with their money, instead of paying adjuncts a living wage they should be spending it on police security to get nazis deplatformed.
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Old 16th September 2019, 01:40 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So that is what our higher educational institutions should be doing with their money, instead of paying adjuncts a living wage they should be spending it on police security to get nazis deplatformed.
I think the cost of litigating against some broke ass neo nazi groups would be chump change, competitively. Mason is working at a Kmart, IIRC? Wouldn't take long for them to fold
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Old 16th September 2019, 03:14 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
How about lawsuits against white supremacists?

Hit these white supremacists where it hurts most, their bank balances. Most of the scumbags who run sites like 4chan, 8chan and the Daily Stormer are not rich and powerful people, they are in the average to low socio-economic demographic (and probably the average to low IQ range as well). Even defending themselves against a lawsuit is going to take a crapload of financial commitment. If these scumbags see that they risk losing everything, it might give them some pause.
Oh but that's "cancel culture" and "censorship".
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Old 16th September 2019, 05:29 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Oh but that's "cancel culture" and "censorship".
Alex Jones is discovering that his words have consequences. Accusing parents of having fake children and being a crisis actor is not protected by free speech laws.

I expect white supremacists are increasingly going to learn this in the coming years
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Old 16th September 2019, 11:56 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
See, that's interesting, thanks. How would Sweden handle an organization like the Proud boys? Does their actual structure violate law? Not street fighting, which they publicly do not endorse.
No. In Sweden, being a fascist is ok. However, donning the trappings of a Nazi or making the gestures of a Nazi are both crimes. Proud Boys would likely be treated as a street gang and seen as a menace. They would be hard pressed to get demo-permits.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Is 8chan available to view in Sweden?
As I understand it, right now it isn't, but I'm not about to try, especially on a government computer. Swedish authorities block certain websites that contain illegal material and that makes no effort to curb the practice.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I referred to the US because we have an imminent problem, that we have built in catch-22s for dealing with. Makes it trickier for us to have a tangible plan of action
True. US laws makes it tricky. My suggestion would be to work to change the law.
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Old 17th September 2019, 03:13 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I think the cost of litigating against some broke ass neo nazi groups would be chump change, competitively. Mason is working at a Kmart, IIRC? Wouldn't take long for them to fold
And yet you cited the university of florida that spend something like a quarter of a million on security for the 10 thousand dollar payment for richard spencer.
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Old 17th September 2019, 04:31 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Judging from my study of history, it does seem to be the driving force; that is, the extension of de facto slavery by whatever means they could manage. That -- preserving the de facto institution of slavery after its de novo prohibition -- was the primary impetus for the dramatic restructuring of the US prison system after the Civil War, as well as numerous vagrancy and "sundown" laws, and a good deal of Jim Crow legislation as well.
Yeah but we're talking about Nixon here. That not-a-crook didn't really need any more reason to do this sort of thing than to hurt the opposition.

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[snip] Which is fairly obvious if you read up on the COINTELPRO history and Nixon's tapes. There are passages of him expressing very strong opposition to the burgeoning Civil Rights movement, and a desire to stop leaders from mobilizing the movement. Nixon makes statements about want to "prevent a black messiah" or other charismatic leaders from energizing and focusing the movement, and similar comments along those lines.
I hate to seem like I'm defending Nixon, but again was it primarily because he wanted to avoid a stronger political opposition, or because he was a racist *******?

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No other minority group in the US has been targeted the way that African-Americans have.
I said it before and I'll say it again: the issue of slavery is the single most important and persistent issue in American politics, dating back to well before the revolution and continuing to this day and beyond.

Quote:
That's not strictly true either. Early on, certainly pre-Revolutionary War, slavery did not exclusively target Africans. Irish were also commonly targeted, although in their case it was euphemized as "indentured servitude". There was always considerable debate on the humanity of Africans, and it became a huge sticking point during the constitutional conferences, resulting in the "Three-Fifths Compromise", which enabled the slaveholder states to effectively deny franchise to their slaves and avoid white people being outvoted, while preserving the desired union of states.

The real push to portray black people as subhumans little better than animals was a later development, again originating predominantly in the slaveholder states, as a reaction to the both the increasing outlawing of slavery across Europe, and the abolition movement in the US. The latter in particular. At the time, the abolition movement was gaining ground in the US, using Europe as an example, and was based strongly on religious principles -- black people being children of G-D, fellow humans, and therefore deserving of being treated equally to white people -- with many of the movements leaders being prominent religious figures.

The northern states began outlawing slavery and freeing slave (which they didn't have many of in any case), and the movement and view of Africans began to gain increasing numbers of adherents. In reaction, pro-slavery religious leaders in the South began pounding away at their assertion that black people were not, in fact, fully human, and therefore not "equally children of G-D"; so in their view it was perfectly natural to enslave them much the same as any other animal. This was rapidly picked up by the governments of Southern states, and incorporated into their legislation, finding its fullest expression in the letters of secession of the various states and the constitution of the Confederacy. While there were certainly those in the north who held the same view, they were not nearly as numerous as in the south.
Thanks for that.
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Old 17th September 2019, 04:53 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And yet you cited the university of florida that spend something like a quarter of a million on security for the 10 thousand dollar payment for richard spencer.
What does one have to do with the other? The school has to provide security, regardless of the speech content. That's a SCOTUS ruling. While I agree that excessive security details should be provided by people who bring trouble, by the same token if a poor speaker came in who was being targeted by white supremacists, would you object to the school providing security? Take it up with SCOTUS. It's got nothing to do with the discussion here.
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Old 17th September 2019, 05:03 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
What does one have to do with the other? The school has to provide security, regardless of the speech content. That's a SCOTUS ruling. While I agree that excessive security details should be provided by people who bring trouble, by the same token if a poor speaker came in who was being targeted by white supremacists, would you object to the school providing security? Take it up with SCOTUS. It's got nothing to do with the discussion here.
The heckler's veto is cool again, get with the program /s
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Old 17th September 2019, 05:28 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
What does one have to do with the other? The school has to provide security, regardless of the speech content. That's a SCOTUS ruling. While I agree that excessive security details should be provided by people who bring trouble, by the same token if a poor speaker came in who was being targeted by white supremacists, would you object to the school providing security? Take it up with SCOTUS. It's got nothing to do with the discussion here.
It was never a scotus ruling. Please try again.

I get it we are required to give nazis a platform so they can convert people right up until enough people become nazis then it is incitement unless too many people become nazis and then it is just another political party and where did all the mud races go?

What other platforms should we subsidize for the nazis? Should the government be hosting stormfront, to help properly radicalize the next generation of white supremacist terrorists?
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Old 17th September 2019, 05:30 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The heckler's veto is cool again, get with the program /s
Yes the first amendment now comes with a subsided platform! We are required to give nazis an audience at our own expense.
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Old 17th September 2019, 06:04 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It was never a scotus ruling. Please try again.

I get it we are required to give nazis a platform so they can convert people right up until enough people become nazis then it is incitement unless too many people become nazis and then it is just another political party and where did all the mud races go?

What other platforms should we subsidize for the nazis? Should the government be hosting stormfront, to help properly radicalize the next generation of white supremacist terrorists?
You take public money, you don't censor invited guests. Doesn't matter if it meets with your approval. Welcome to the States.

You want to establish a ponderingturtle dictatorship where you are not bothered with these pesky freedoms the rest of us cherish? Have at it. Presidential ballot applications are thataway.
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Old 17th September 2019, 06:16 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You take public money, you don't censor invited guests. Doesn't matter if it meets with your approval. Welcome to the States.

You want to establish a ponderingturtle dictatorship where you are not bothered with these pesky freedoms the rest of us cherish? Have at it. Presidential ballot applications are thataway.
Yes, we can censor them. Even in the US. Our difference of opinion is only how much we can censor them.
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Old 17th September 2019, 06:27 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Yes, we can censor them. Even in the US. Our difference of opinion is only how much we can censor them.
I think Universities, etc in the States have tried that, and failed, except by claiming incitement to riot or other unprotected content. U of Alabama tried to saddle Milo up with his own security detail costs and was promptly slapped with a 1A reprimand.
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Old 17th September 2019, 06:39 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You take public money, you don't censor invited guests. Doesn't matter if it meets with your approval. Welcome to the States.
Except of course when they do.

Why are you so lax in when the state is obligated to fund the platform of nazis? Clearly deplatforming them is morally wrong or you wouldn't force the schools to waste their money on this.

And if they take public money clearly campus security can not kick me out unless I break the law no matter that I am disrupting the college.

That is simply not how things work, and it does imply that because of the government funding for the development of the internet they should be entitled to a subsidised platform on the internet.

Also there is the fact that all colleges take public money so of course they are all required to subsidies nazis as well.
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Old 17th September 2019, 06:44 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I think Universities, etc in the States have tried that, and failed, except by claiming incitement to riot or other unprotected content. U of Alabama tried to saddle Milo up with his own security detail costs and was promptly slapped with a 1A reprimand.
Yea yea yea, the nazis need to speak but the left gets bocked an it is also a victory I know.

You spend 600K for security for Ben Shapiro then bar Chelsea Manning. That is how the system is supposed to work clearly.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...e-about-campus

What is important is spreading racism and sexism, clearly.
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Old 17th September 2019, 06:48 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I think Universities, etc in the States have tried that, and failed, except by claiming incitement to riot or other unprotected content. U of Alabama tried to saddle Milo up with his own security detail costs and was promptly slapped with a 1A reprimand.
A speaker invited by a university cannot say anything he or she pleases. Laws restrict what can and cannot be said. What is needed is for either laws to be updated to broaden the definition of hate speech and then make sure it is banned, or to start rigorously applying existing laws.

Free speech is being used as a cudgel by the extreme right in order to force liberal democracy to bend to its will. We must not allow this. Freedom of speech is valuable for everyone, but as it is being abused, it will soon be gone.
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Old 17th September 2019, 06:52 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Except of course when they do.

Why are you so lax in when the state is obligated to fund the platform of nazis? Clearly deplatforming them is morally wrong or you wouldn't force the schools to waste their money on this.
...wut?

I only begrudgingly accept this. I think if a speaker brings trouble, s/he should have to provide their own security detail. I have argued this before and you are lying to claim I don't. But the courts have not agreed. So on to option B: the heckler's veto.

Quote:
And if they take public money clearly campus security can not kick me out unless I break the law no matter that I am disrupting the college.

That is simply not how things work, and it does imply that because of the government funding for the development of the internet they should be entitled to a subsidised platform on the internet.

Also there is the fact that all colleges take public money so of course they are all required to subsidies nazis as well.
The problem is that a school can't say one crowd is worthy of security and another is not, based on the content of their speech. Sucks, but there it is.

Maybe a solution that could theoretically fly is for the student body to vote on whether or not to invite speakers? Sure, it might stifle thought and expression, but would that make your dictatorial self happy?
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Old 17th September 2019, 06:54 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
A speaker invited by a university cannot say anything he or she pleases. Laws restrict what can and cannot be said. What is needed is for either laws to be updated to broaden the definition of hate speech and then make sure it is banned, or to start rigorously applying existing laws.

Free speech is being used as a cudgel by the extreme right in order to force liberal democracy to bend to its will. We must not allow this. Freedom of speech is valuable for everyone, but as it is being abused, it will soon be gone.
That is precisely what I have argued on several threads, redefining some speech as the equivalent of assault, +/-.
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Old 17th September 2019, 07:03 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
A speaker invited by a university cannot say anything he or she pleases. Laws restrict what can and cannot be said. What is needed is for either laws to be updated to broaden the definition of hate speech and then make sure it is banned, or to start rigorously applying existing laws.

Free speech is being used as a cudgel by the extreme right in order to force liberal democracy to bend to its will. We must not allow this. Freedom of speech is valuable for everyone, but as it is being abused, it will soon be gone.
That's a lofty aspiration. You are grossly underestimating how much of an impediment 1A will be to such a goal.

Deplatforming works great in the general sense, but not that well when it comes to government funded institutions. Twitter can kick off Milo any time it wants, but the government cannot.

These schools that try to apply some "hate speech" standard for speakers on their campus will lose almost every time. There is no 1A consistent way to prevent people like Ben Shapiro from appearing on campus.
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Old 17th September 2019, 07:06 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
...wut?

I only begrudgingly accept this. I think if a speaker brings trouble, s/he should have to provide their own security detail. I have argued this before and you are lying to claim I don't. But the courts have not agreed. So on to option B: the heckler's veto.



The problem is that a school can't say one crowd is worthy of security and another is not, based on the content of their speech. Sucks, but there it is.

Maybe a solution that could theoretically fly is for the student body to vote on whether or not to invite speakers? Sure, it might stifle thought and expression, but would that make your dictatorial self happy?
And yet you only care about it for nazis and when colleges that take public money refuse to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on security for one speaker and cancel it and the speaker isn't a nazi it is not some strike against the first amendment.
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Old 17th September 2019, 07:08 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
These schools that try to apply some "hate speech" standard for speakers on their campus will lose almost every time. There is no 1A consistent way to prevent people like Ben Shapiro from appearing on campus.
Exactly history departments can't stop mere things like holocaust denial from being taught at universities. Unless it is some trans freak like Chelsea Manning then they get kicked off and no one cares and says it was some violation of the first amendment.
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Old 17th September 2019, 07:10 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And yet you only care about it for nazis and when colleges that take public money refuse to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on security for one speaker and cancel it and the speaker isn't a nazi it is not some strike against the first amendment.
The situation you describe did not occur.

Ben Shapiro was invited by a campus group for a speaking event and the university was not able to saddle security costs on him as a precondition.

Chelsea Manning was directly invited by the school administration, which later changed their mind under pressure and revoked the invitation. Had she been invited by some campus group, there would have been little the school could have done to deny the visit. Manning has visited other schools, both invited by administrations and student groups who were less cowed by public blowback. Sucks that Harvard was such cowards, but the right wing successfully deplatformed her in that case.

There is a difference between the administration inviting the guest in some official capacity (say, for a commencement speech or some symposium) and allowing campus groups to conduct their own events with speakers of their own choice.

Campus Republicans inviting some inflammatory troll is going to keep happening and is 100% 1A protected at government funded universities.
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Old 17th September 2019, 07:17 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And yet you only care about it for nazis and when colleges that take public money refuse to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on security for one speaker and cancel it and the speaker isn't a nazi it is not some strike against the first amendment.
...and you're back to lying. Good talk, see ya around.
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Old 17th September 2019, 07:17 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The situation you describe did not occur.

Ben Shapiro was invited by a campus group for a speaking event and the university was not able to saddle security costs on him as a precondition.

Chelsea Manning was directly invited by the school administration, which later changed their mind under pressure and revoked the invitation. Had she been invited by some campus group, there would have been little the school could have done to deny the visit.

There is a difference between the administration inviting the guest in some official capacity (say, for a commencement speech or some symposium) and allowing campus groups to conduct their own events with speakers of their own choice.
And when it is a guest who cancels because of mere death threats is still all good. I mean why waste money protecting scum like Black Lives matter?

https://woldcnews.com/1530110/say-wh...death-threats/ That is the system worked as designed.

Or if they are a feminist that works too

https://www.theverge.com/2014/10/14/...rkeesian-visit


Really it is only the nazis who need this special protection, everyone else is on their own. As the first amendment requires.
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