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Tags North Carolina incidents , North Carolina politics , republicans

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Old 12th September 2019, 11:05 AM   #81
Venom
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So this whole thing was overblown?
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Old 12th September 2019, 11:09 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
If that is what happened it was pretty low but who knows... republicans are not the only ones who might misrepresent something.
The Associated Press reported that the office of Republican Speaker Tim Moore provided audio from Tuesday’s floor session of Lewis saying that recorded votes would happen Wednesday.
The issue isn't about the entire day, but specifically about the morning.

Waiting until Wednesday afternoon to vote on the budget would have been the ethical thing to do.

Quote:
Republicans also disputed the claim by the governor and other Democrats that many of them were attending events remembering 9/11 victims and first responders. Local news reports said only one or two Democrats claimed to have been attending a 9/11 memorial at the time of the vote.
Its possible that not all of the absences were due to 9/11 events, but:

- Even just a few being at 9/11 events would preclude them from being there to vote
- Other democratic absences may have been due to government related work elsewhere. Politicians can have multiple responsibilities and sometimes that means they may miss time in house or senate if nothing critical is happening.
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Old 12th September 2019, 11:15 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
So this whole thing was overblown?
In my personal opinion, yes and no. No matter where the Dems were at it was a dick move, and they knew it. They did it on purpose because there had been a battle about the budget for awhile. So there was no confusion with regards to what was happening.

On the flip, the Dems are kind of virtue signaling and pearl clutching. "We were just remembering good Americans when these guys cheated us."

TL; DR: The GOP are ********, and the Dems are being babies.
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Last edited by plague311; 12th September 2019 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 12th September 2019, 11:47 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
In my personal opinion, yes and no. No matter where the Dems were at it was a dick move, and they knew it. They did it on purpose because there had been a battle about the budget for awhile. So there was on confusion with regards to what was happening.

On the flip, the Dems are kind of virtue signaling and pearl clutching. "We were just remembering good Americans when these guys cheated us."

TL; DR: The GOP are ********, and the Dems are being babies.
Pretty much this.
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:39 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Dan Bishop won the special election, they're just getting started on a Republican voter mandate which seems to be an approval of the job the GOP has been trying to get done in NC.

Democratic obstruction does not get things done. Bravo NC!

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You mean disenfranchise Black VOters and bring back the good old days of Jim Crow?
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:40 PM   #86
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Disregarding the derail about forum management, I'd like to know why the 'Dems' are being 'whiny babies' for doing what Republicans have called 'patriotic' and 'supporting' and you know, showing humanity (or is that it?) by attending memorials for the anniversary that Republicans have been talking up and saying we MUST REMEMBER for a week? And that some were in committee meetings and are included in the 'babies' category for being off doing their jobs when the speaker sneaked in the rush vote?
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:43 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Disregarding the derail about forum management, I'd like to know why the 'Dems' are being 'whiny babies' for doing what Republicans have called 'patriotic' and 'supporting' and you know, showing humanity (or is that it?) by attending memorials for the anniversary that Republicans have been talking up and saying we MUST REMEMBER for a week? And that some were in committee meetings and are included in the 'babies' category for being off doing their jobs when the speaker sneaked in the rush vote?
You are missing the point: the democrats need to stop whining about the republicans acting unethically. This is the way they are, and so what do you expect? They deserve what they get.
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:47 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
You are missing the point: the democrats need to stop whining about the republicans acting unethically. This is the way they are, and so what do you expect? They deserve what they get.
Yup, I'm reminded of:

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I AGREE
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:48 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Disregarding the derail about forum management, I'd like to know why the 'Dems' are being 'whiny babies' for doing what Republicans have called 'patriotic' and 'supporting' and you know, showing humanity (or is that it?) by attending memorials for the anniversary that Republicans have been talking up and saying we MUST REMEMBER for a week? And that some were in committee meetings and are included in the 'babies' category for being off doing their jobs when the speaker sneaked in the rush vote?
Because at a certain point if you keep handing a chimp a loaded gun and the chimp keeps shooting you with you stop blaming the chimp.

I get it. The whole "OH BUT UR DA REUPBLICANS AND YOU'RE ALWAYS PLAYING THE PATRIOT CARD" is cathartic. It's also a waste of time.

We've been playing "Gotcha" with the GOP over every one of the 50 bazillion bits of hypocrisy they perform in the average day. THEY DON'T CARE.
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:49 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Disregarding the derail about forum management, I'd like to know why the 'Dems' are being 'whiny babies' for doing what Republicans have called 'patriotic' and 'supporting' and you know, showing humanity (or is that it?) by attending memorials for the anniversary that Republicans have been talking up and saying we MUST REMEMBER for a week?
There was, last count, at most 2 people involved in 9/11 ceremonies that the Dems appear to try and oversell. No one is saying they're babies for attending anything 9/11 related.

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
And that some were in committee meetings and are included in the 'babies' category for being off doing their jobs when the speaker sneaked in the rush vote?
You seem to be confused. I'm not saying they were babies because they were doing work instead of voting. I'm saying their babies for the way they characterized and pearl clutched after the fact.

It's a bummer, it was shady, it was unethical, it was completely and entirely within their bounds to do so. As was said before, it won't happen again I would bet.
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:54 PM   #91
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I would bet that it will be the new norm, now that they know they can get away with it. Do you feel represented now?
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Old 12th September 2019, 12:56 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I would bet that it will be the new norm, now that they know they can get away with it. Do you feel represented now?
I would have to disagree. After this happened most people are not willing to forget it so easily. I would bet that the Dems will put a scout or a staff in there to make sure they know exactly what's going on. Usually trick plays don't have a tendency to work repeatedly.
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Old 12th September 2019, 01:13 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You mean disenfranchise Black VOters and bring back the good old days of Jim Crow?
When america was great, just ignore the upper income tax brackets.
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Old 12th September 2019, 01:15 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
There was, last count, at most 2 people involved in 9/11 ceremonies that the Dems appear to try and oversell. No one is saying they're babies for attending anything 9/11 related.
No it is two confirmed attendees.
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Old 12th September 2019, 01:16 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I would bet that it will be the new norm, now that they know they can get away with it. Do you feel represented now?
On the plus side think of what they can ram though if they get most of the republicans unexpectedly out of the house? Bang turnabout is fair play after all.
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Old 12th September 2019, 01:17 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
No it is two confirmed attendees.
Do I even dare ask what you're talking about? I said, "at last count".
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Old 12th September 2019, 01:20 PM   #97
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wow, some skeptics forum:
https://www.redstate.com/sister-told...e-republicans/
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Old 12th September 2019, 01:22 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Do I even dare ask what you're talking about? I said, "at last count".
You said at last count two possible that has rather different implications. But yes speaking at a 9/11 memorial is exactly the kind of thing that should be punished for a legislator to do.
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Old 12th September 2019, 01:25 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by mgardner View Post
http://speakermoore.com/n-c-house-le...to-overridden/
“No one announced there would be no recorded votes from the chair, or by email, as is the standard procedure in the House when there will not be recorded votes.”

“And again, to the contrary, I explicitly announced there would be recorded votes today. Twice.”
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Old 12th September 2019, 02:17 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
You said at last count two possible that has rather different implications.
No, I didn't. Don't misrepresent my posts. It's clear as day in my quote that I didn't even use the word possible.

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But yes speaking at a 9/11 memorial is exactly the kind of thing that should be punished for a legislator to do.
Since no one has made this ******** assertion, I'm going to chalk it up to lack of reading comprehension.
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Old 12th September 2019, 02:19 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by mgardner View Post
It is "some skeptics" forum considering one of us, myself, pointed this out about a page ago. I also didn't need to use a ******** website that feeds into my confirmation bias.

Gratz on the find though.
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Old 12th September 2019, 02:27 PM   #102
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In my state legislators passed an open mhttps://www.newsobserver.com/news/po...234962017.htmleeting law that requires cities, counties, school boards etc. to post agenda items publicly at least 24 hours before the fact - no vote can be held without the item being on the agenda. Also, 3 out of 5 supervisors can't get together without it being an open, posted meeting.

However, the Legislature itself is largely exempt from the rules it imposes on other jurisdictions.

ETA: The News Observer ran what appears to be a straightforward piece that includes facts that weren't in the RedState article.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/po...234962017.html

Last edited by Minoosh; 12th September 2019 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 12th September 2019, 02:41 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by mgardner View Post
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
http://speakermoore.com/n-c-house-le...to-overridden/
“No one announced there would be no recorded votes from the chair, or by email, as is the standard procedure in the House when there will not be recorded votes.”

“And again, to the contrary, I explicitly announced there would be recorded votes today. Twice.”

And yet for some reason, House Rules Committee Chairman David Lewis didn't think there would be a vote:
Quote:
Lewis did acknowledge telling a WRAL News reporter via text Tuesday night that there would be no votes at the 8:30 a.m. session. But he said that's because he didn't think there would be any. He wasn't on the floor during the override vote.
Gosh, I wonder why.

And I'm also struggling with the dilemma of who to believe when Democrats claim Lewis also told them that there would be no vote, which Lewis denies. Despite the fact, of course, that he did tell a WRAL reporter there would be no vote.

I'm just hoping that a couple of Super Skeptics like mgardner and theprestige can explain what happened here.
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Old 12th September 2019, 02:46 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
http://speakermoore.com/n-c-house-le...to-overridden/
“No one announced there would be no recorded votes from the chair, or by email, as is the standard procedure in the House when there will not be recorded votes.”

“And again, to the contrary, I explicitly announced there would be recorded votes today. Twice.”
Here's something you might not have known....

There is actually more than 1 part to a working day. Morning and afternoon.

If you tell someone "there will be votes" in a day, but also say "no votes in the morning", its reasonable to assume the votes will be in the afternoon.

Well, assuming the person isn't an unethical scumbag like your typical republican, when they were lying about the morning thing.
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Old 12th September 2019, 02:47 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
And I'm also struggling with the dilemma of who to believe when Democrats claim Lewis also told them that there would be no vote, which Lewis denies. Despite the fact, of course, that he did tell a WRAL reporter there would be no vote.
Does it involve time travel?
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Old 12th September 2019, 05:04 PM   #106
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Edited by kmortis:  Removed previously moderated content


More like strategy within the ruleset is not a moral issue.

Last edited by kmortis; 13th September 2019 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 12th September 2019, 05:38 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
More like strategy within the ruleset is not a moral issue.
Lying, however, is a moral issue.

Bluffing and deception is an accepted strategy in various sports and games, such as football, poker, and basketball.

Lying is not an accepted strategy in Congressional functions.

You do realize Congressional functions and Football have different rule sets, don't you? Or do you commonly see American Legislators tackle each other to prevent them from writing bills and such?

"The Bill catches the vote at the podium and is taking off toward the door, heading for the White House. He's at the first aisle, performs a spin move around the minority whip, and then he's to the second aisle, just bowling over the obstructionist party with alacrity, he's at the third, getting a much needed block from the Speaker....Wow, look at that little Bill run! He. Could. Go. All. The. Way!!!"

"He's OUT. THE. DOOR!........TOUCHDOWN!"




It really is as simple as that.
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Old 12th September 2019, 05:45 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Lying, however, is a moral issue.

Bluffing and deception is an accepted strategy in various sports and games, such as football, poker, and basketball.

Lying is not an accepted strategy in Congressional functions.
Yes, it is. (When legal)
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Old 12th September 2019, 05:50 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes, it is. (When legal)
No, it's not. Do you see people accepting it in this thread?

Open your eyes, bro.
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Old 12th September 2019, 05:54 PM   #110
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
No, it's not. Do you see people accepting it in this thread?

Open your eyes, bro.
Their acceptance has no value to me.
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Old 12th September 2019, 06:26 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
In my state legislators passed an open mhttps://www.newsobserver.com/news/po...234962017.htmleeting law that requires cities, counties, school boards etc. to post agenda items publicly at least 24 hours before the fact - no vote can be held without the item being on the agenda. Also, 3 out of 5 supervisors can't get together without it being an open, posted meeting.

However, the Legislature itself is largely exempt from the rules it imposes on other jurisdictions.

ETA: The News Observer ran what appears to be a straightforward piece that includes facts that weren't in the RedState article.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/po...234962017.html
Wow! Great Find! Do you realize that's the article linked in the OP? I've been admonishing people to RTFM since the OP.
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Old 12th September 2019, 06:38 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Their acceptance has no value to me.
LOL! Does anything?
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Old 12th September 2019, 06:55 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I have no opinion about that.
And yet, here you are. (Not sure that BtC is the role model you want if you're going to pretend to be here to engage in honest debate. Just sayin'.)



Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because at a certain point if you keep handing a chimp a loaded gun and the chimp keeps shooting you with you stop blaming the chimp.
That's some Premium Grade A victim-blaming you've got going there.

Quote:
I get it. The whole "OH BUT UR DA REUPBLICANS AND YOU'RE ALWAYS PLAYING THE PATRIOT CARD" is cathartic. It's also a waste of time.
It's a waste of time to you because you know everything. And it's a waste of time to anyone trying to convert die-hard GOP supporters because they are textbook examples of cognitive dissonance. But to the marginal supporters, it actually works and gets their attention. I think people should continue to point out the hypocrisy and let the voters decide. Giving "other Republicans"(not The Trump, himself) a pass is the worst idea imaginable. You see it as fruitless. I see it as rewarding.
Quote:
We've been playing "Gotcha" with the GOP over every one of the 50 bazillion bits of hypocrisy they perform in the average day. THEY DON'T CARE.
We don't care if they don't care. Less than 1/3 of the country identifies as Republican. It's the other 70% we're reminding, as often as possible, what a bunch of lying weasel scumbag hypocrites they're supporting if they vote for them on their lying promises or if they sweep it under the rug as you're proposing.
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Old 12th September 2019, 08:28 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Correction... Bishop won one congressional district (representing only a tiny fraction of the population of the state), and at a different level of government (federal, not state).

That's hardly a 'voter mandate' or an indication of any sort of widespread approval of the actions of republicans in the state.
It would seem to be a voter mandate of that district. Many are interpreting the special election results as a preview of NC 2020..........

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Old 12th September 2019, 08:29 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Unrelated.

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Old 12th September 2019, 08:30 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Republicans can't win on the merits of their ideas and policies, so they have to cheat.
Do you think Dan Bishop cheated? Do tell......

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Old 12th September 2019, 08:43 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
And yet, here you are. (Not sure that BtC is the role model you want if you're going to pretend to be here to engage in honest debate. Just sayin'.)

*snipped*


We don't care if they don't care. Less than 1/3 of the country identifies as Republican. It's the other 70% we're reminding, as often as possible, what a bunch of lying weasel scumbag hypocrites they're supporting if they vote for them on their lying promises or if they sweep it under the rug as you're proposing.
According to Gallup, that's 27% Republican, 29% Democrat and 40% Independents. As we've seen before, many people tend to be secretive or perhaps even misleading when revealing their political views to phone surveys....

Regardless of the numbers, it all depends on where those numbers are located and how many electoral votes they wield........The flyover states have proven they will no longer be ignored, they did it in 2016 and I think we're gonna see landslide numbers in 2020.



https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/p...filiation.aspx
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Old 12th September 2019, 11:35 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I would have to disagree. After this happened most people are not willing to forget it so easily. I would bet that the Dems will put a scout or a staff in there to make sure they know exactly what's going on. Usually trick plays don't have a tendency to work repeatedly.
Except when a new 'trick play' is hit upon.

So it's come down to 'hall monitors' to have to keep an eye on the little *****. Great.

Somehow I think it better to have ethical humans in the Legislature, and failing that well defined rules to enforce ethical behavior. This throwing up of hands and accepting that increased vigilance against dirty tricks be the new norm doesn't seem congruent with democratic practice.
Edited by kmortis:  Do not mask swear words. Let the autocensor do its job.

Last edited by kmortis; 23rd September 2019 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 12th September 2019, 11:38 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
http://speakermoore.com/n-c-house-le...to-overridden/
“No one announced there would be no recorded votes from the chair, or by email, as is the standard procedure in the House when there will not be recorded votes.”

“And again, to the contrary, I explicitly announced there would be recorded votes today. Twice.”
In the *afternoon*, I gather. *Not* in the morning.
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Old 13th September 2019, 06:27 AM   #120
plague311
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Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
Except when a new 'trick play' is hit upon.

So it's come down to 'hall monitors' to have to keep an eye on the little *****. Great.

Somehow I think it better to have ethical humans in the Legislature, and failing that well defined rules to enforce ethical behavior. This throwing up of hands and accepting that increased vigilance against dirty tricks be the new norm doesn't seem congruent with democratic practice.
Edited by kmortis:  Do not mask swear words. Let the autocensor do its job.
I agree, it's a sad state of affairs to be in but that's what politics has become.
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Last edited by kmortis; 23rd September 2019 at 04:19 AM.
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