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Old 17th September 2019, 11:41 AM   #41
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Now if only Ben Shapiro could end up penniless, too...
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:20 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And yet that is how we got the president who is still as popular as ever.
Is he?
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:27 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Is he?
His popularity hasn't taken any serious hits. It has remained pretty damn steady so far. His unpopularity might be a bit higher but that isn't the same thing.
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:28 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Is he?
Trump's opinion of himself hasn't declined in the slightest!
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
His popularity hasn't taken any serious hits. It has remained pretty damn steady so far. His unpopularity might be a bit higher but that isn't the same thing.
Given the nature of term limits, it's really hard to say what his popularity is. The only popularity that matters, when it comes to Trump, is electoral popularity.

I think a lot of people tolerated his absolutely toxic personality because they thought he would benefit the country in some way. I think his presidency is direct evidence to the contrary, and people are realizing it was a rotten deal. This is all speculation though, at least until the election.
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:35 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Now if only Ben Shapiro could end up penniless, too...
How very......vindictive
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:38 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
How very......vindictive
At least he's not hoping Shapiro's daughters will be disinvited to slumber parties in the DC area.
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:39 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Given the nature of term limits, it's really hard to say what his popularity is. The only popularity that matters, when it comes to Trump, is electoral popularity.

I think a lot of people tolerated his absolutely toxic personality because they thought he would benefit the country in some way. I think his presidency is direct evidence to the contrary, and people are realizing it was a rotten deal. This is all speculation though, at least until the election.
Look at all the wonderful judges they have backing him and his racist policies, it was all worth it to real conservatives.
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Old 17th September 2019, 12:41 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Look at all the wonderful judges they have backing him and his racist policies, it was all worth it to real conservatives.
I wonder. All his judges from the Federalist roster, just like any other Republican president. A Jeb would have packed the court just as well without all the other baggage.

The RNC is the Trump party now. If he flames out hard, it could hurt the conservative cause for a generation.
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Old 17th September 2019, 03:13 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post

Yeah, there have actually been several instances of furry conventions attacked by nutcases. In at least one case, a "bleach bomb" was used, causing part of the hotel to be evacuated.

A big deal has been made about the out-of-control partiers causing problems, public nudity, damage to the hotel, and so on at furry conventions; but people bringing those up never bother to mention that they happen with equal or greater regularity at other conventions. If anything, they're less common at furry conventions. I can recall when one of the largest science-fiction and fantasy conventions in the US, Norwescon, was effectively ordered to clamp down on room parties or risk getting booted out of the hotel they had called their home for decades.

The problem is mostly what are referred to as "tourists" among fen. That is, people who show up exclusively for the room parties, and are not paying to attend the con. In Norwescon's case, they resolved that by strictly regulating room parties, requiring con badges to attend, and posting security outside the rooms. A small con like Rainfurrest (which was my local furry con until 2015) just doesn't have the resources to do that, and has a harder time dealing with tourists and out-of-control attendees. Plus, the management of the con was way too laissez faire, and didn't have anyone who could sit the committee down and make them fix their problems; which included a lack of background checks on committee members.

But again, these are nothing unique to furry cons; many other cons are much worse. Ask hotel employees at big convention centers about the behaviour of some of the big fundamentalist Christian conventions sometime (especially if you want to hear about the local prostitutes doing huge business); or Shriner conventions (an epic tale of drunken shenanigans and sexual harassment). But it's easier to single out furries, since they're marginalized outsiders already by mainstream standards; and since they don't bring in the money that the bigger cons do, hotels and convention centers are far less likely to put up with problematic behaviour.

The furry community also has a bit of a reputation of accepting pretty much anyone. That can be both good and bad. On the one paw, it's far more welcoming to marginalized people and people who otherwise exist on the fringes of society; but on the other paw, it also tends to be more tolerant of problematic and extremist behaviour than most other fandoms, and certainly far more than is good for anyone involved. I find it about half-surprising that Milo was banned from MFF, but that probably goes more to his reputation for inciting violence and open promotion of paedophilia than anything else.
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Old 17th September 2019, 08:40 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I hate to put it that way, as the alt-right quarter that Milo identifies/fied with loves using the phrase to mock the poor and disabled. But yes; unlike many of them, Milo is young, white, male, and able-bodied and would have no trouble finding a job. It's going to be a bitter pill - doubly so since his throwing in so totally and publicly with extremists has effectively cut him off from his original career field of choice - but he's going to have to down it eventually.

The one caveat is that whatever job he finds will likely have to be non-public-facing, because customers who recognize him are going to object to having to deal with him.
Right, so flipping burgers and pumping gas is probably out then.
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Old 18th September 2019, 12:09 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It does a heart good to see a grifter like Milo not knowing where his next meal comes from, but I'm not sure you can claim this as a scalp for deplatforming.

Milo was always a mercenary troll and pretty much a persona non grata anywhere but the far right sphere during his prime. His troubles only really began when he got dropped by the Mercers and Breitbart for endorsing pedophilia. They didn't care when he was race baiting or leading harrassment campaigns against lefties. None of these people had a problem with all his other bigoted crap and he probably would be running the same racket had he not endorsed banging children.

I don't think the left ended his career. The right wing soured on him for their own reasons and cut him adrift. Does that really count as deplatforming?

Deplatforming does work, but only for people who want to at least pretend to be respectable.
But doesn't it strike you as odd that, while Milo defended child rape and child rapists on Joe Rogan's extremely popular podcast in 2015, conservatives suddenly discovered this interview right after pseudo-liberal Bill Maher decided to hype him up, and right before he was slated to give the keynote speech at CPAC in 2017? Didn't you ever wonder how that happened all of a sudden?

I mean, I guess it's possible that members of the Reagan Battalion just happened upon the clip that was used by a minor lefty Youtuber at that convenient moment, but...
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Old 18th September 2019, 04:28 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
But doesn't it strike you as odd that, while Milo defended child rape and child rapists on Joe Rogan's extremely popular podcast in 2015, conservatives suddenly discovered this interview right after pseudo-liberal Bill Maher decided to hype him up, and right before he was slated to give the keynote speech at CPAC in 2017? Didn't you ever wonder how that happened all of a sudden?

I mean, I guess it's possible that members of the Reagan Battalion just happened upon the clip that was used by a minor lefty Youtuber at that convenient moment, but...
That's fair enough. Perhaps it was just a convenient pretext to dump someone that is no longer worth the trouble, in which case the deplatforming effort would have played a role. It's hard to say, since Milo was basically 100% dependent on Mercer sponsorship by way of Breitbart, so they have a lot of power over him. Once the sole benefactor pulled the plug, he had no staying power.

perhaps the Mercers were feeling the heat from the deplatforming backlash against Milo and Breitbart and decided to dump them both? If so, I'd call that a win.
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Old 18th September 2019, 04:29 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Yeah, there have actually been several instances of furry conventions attacked by nutcases. In at least one case, a "bleach bomb" was used, causing part of the hotel to be evacuated.

A big deal has been made about the out-of-control partiers causing problems, public nudity, damage to the hotel, and so on at furry conventions; but people bringing those up never bother to mention that they happen with equal or greater regularity at other conventions. If anything, they're less common at furry conventions. I can recall when one of the largest science-fiction and fantasy conventions in the US, Norwescon, was effectively ordered to clamp down on room parties or risk getting booted out of the hotel they had called their home for decades.

The problem is mostly what are referred to as "tourists" among fen. That is, people who show up exclusively for the room parties, and are not paying to attend the con. In Norwescon's case, they resolved that by strictly regulating room parties, requiring con badges to attend, and posting security outside the rooms. A small con like Rainfurrest (which was my local furry con until 2015) just doesn't have the resources to do that, and has a harder time dealing with tourists and out-of-control attendees. Plus, the management of the con was way too laissez faire, and didn't have anyone who could sit the committee down and make them fix their problems; which included a lack of background checks on committee members.

But again, these are nothing unique to furry cons; many other cons are much worse. Ask hotel employees at big convention centers about the behaviour of some of the big fundamentalist Christian conventions sometime (especially if you want to hear about the local prostitutes doing huge business); or Shriner conventions (an epic tale of drunken shenanigans and sexual harassment). But it's easier to single out furries, since they're marginalized outsiders already by mainstream standards; and since they don't bring in the money that the bigger cons do, hotels and convention centers are far less likely to put up with problematic behaviour.

The furry community also has a bit of a reputation of accepting pretty much anyone. That can be both good and bad. On the one paw, it's far more welcoming to marginalized people and people who otherwise exist on the fringes of society; but on the other paw, it also tends to be more tolerant of problematic and extremist behaviour than most other fandoms, and certainly far more than is good for anyone involved. I find it about half-surprising that Milo was banned from MFF, but that probably goes more to his reputation for inciting violence and open promotion of paedophilia than anything else.
Point taken. I was just having a go.
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Old 18th September 2019, 05:01 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
How very......vindictive
The man's an *******, so I have no problem wishing some ill befalls him.
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Old 18th September 2019, 05:05 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Donal View Post
Maybe he can clean pools at Liberty University.

We're going to see more of these grifters pull stuff like this. Their sugar daddies are seeing a diminishing return, so they will need to get more outrageous to stay in the spotlight. And they are cutting each other's throats. See Dave Rubin and Tomi Lahren. I'm waiting for the inevitable feud between Charlie Kirk and Candace Owens.

I'm sure a few of them will keep their plush jobs. I don't see Shapiro totally going away but probably pushed further from the mainstream. Ann Coulter will always be around as long as people like Bill Maher need to kill time. Joe Rogan has enough friends in every sector to keep his show popular.

But I think the bubble has been bursting on the "I'm not racist but..." cottage industry. There just isn't enough money to go around. especially if their billionaire backers have to start paying taxes.
Rogan is a grifter?

note: I don't watch/listen to his show
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Old 18th September 2019, 05:06 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
Rogan is a grifter?

note: I don't watch/listen to his show
He uses his show to hawk supplements. Seems grifty to me.
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:15 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by pharphis View Post
Rogan is a grifter?

note: I don't watch/listen to his show
Not in the way the others are, to be fair. As mentioned above, he shills for "health" products of questionable (at best) efficacy. He does pander to just about anyone who will listen so he can hock said products.

That has allowed him to become a "gateway to the alt-right" as he has been called. He doesn't seem to engage in that kind of stuff himself, but he doesn't do anything to stop his guests when they do.

He seems to latch onto anyone with an internet following and lets them just spew their rhetoric. Although, I've heard he's started pushing back on some of the more outrageous statements they make. Apparently, he went hard at Jordan Peterson in a recent interview.
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:50 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
He uses his show to hawk supplements. Seems grifty to me.
Yeah...but Rogan, at least, has a highly popular podcast and likely promotes whatever he pleases in terms of advertising - if he even needs to do so apart from subscriptions. He also humiliated both Jordan Peterson and David Rubin (the latter is *definitely* an actual grifter). And he's hardly the type to just prattle on and on about "SJWs" and the like - he's more along the line of Marc Maron or an NPR interviewer, in that he has a few areas of serious expertise, quite a few areas where he has an amateurish understanding, and generally lets the interviewee shine (or not, depending).

The exceptions are mostly "old friends", like when he's talking to that nut Alex Jones. And I wouldn't be shocked if he genuinely believed his supplements worked - he does veer into woo once in a while, even in areas where it won't benefit him. Nothing like Q or Pizzagate last I saw, but more drug use "connecting you to the Universe" and the like.
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Old 18th September 2019, 10:05 AM   #60
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"Humiliated" is subjective. I can't say of course, but I highly doubt for instance that Peterson's or Rubin's fans felt their appearances on Rogan's show made them look bad.

It is accommodation and exposure for their message above all else. The fact that Rogan may ask a critical question or two doesn't change that; he's still treating their views as deserving of his viewers' consideration.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:04 AM   #61
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What did Rogan say to Jordan Peterson? I tried googling for a summary, but I couldn't find anything, and I'm simply not willing to sit through the podcast to find out for myself.
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Old 18th September 2019, 06:21 PM   #62
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thanks for clarifying re Rogan
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:13 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
"Humiliated" is subjective. I can't say of course, but I highly doubt for instance that Peterson's or Rubin's fans felt their appearances on Rogan's show made them look bad.
I doubt anyone would. Rubin's fans will mostly follow him directly back to his echo chamber, and Peterson's a substitute father figure for maladjusted young men and teens. Still, he slapped Rubin in particular hard when it came to deregulation - a good thing since Rubin usually runs screaming from any sort of discussion with an actual lefty.

Quote:
It is accommodation and exposure for their message above all else. The fact that Rogan may ask a critical question or two doesn't change that; he's still treating their views as deserving of his viewers' consideration.
As I said, he's much like Marc Maron. He's hardly as bad as Rubin as far as this goes - his main purpose is to get the interviewee to open up and discuss their interests and views, although he sometimes knocks people down when needed. But he's not a flat-out debater like, say, Destiny, out to dismantle his opponents' arguments completely.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:27 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Judging by the photos he's got maybe five years left in him where he could make a living as a rent boy.
After his outfit at the Straight Pride march, I figured he'd be off to Japan next. Surely there's a schoolboy fetish porn site there for him.

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Old 19th September 2019, 03:50 AM   #65
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The loser right in Australia still loves him.
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Old 19th September 2019, 05:13 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
"Humiliated" is subjective. I can't say of course, but I highly doubt for instance that Peterson's or Rubin's fans felt their appearances on Rogan's show made them look bad.
I would hope that if such things as Rubin fans exist, they would have to concede that their boy took a beating here:

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Old 19th September 2019, 10:04 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I would hope that if such things as Rubin fans exist, they would have to concede that their boy took a beating here:

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Wow. Rubin has zero clue as to how contractors and construction workers can operate.
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Old 19th September 2019, 12:25 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Just out of curiosity, the concept of a Nazi furry is fascinating. Just what kind of critter do you dress up as? Or, do you just put on your normal kitty or raccoon suit and add an armband.....
I am sort of thinking of the monkey giving the Nazi salute in "Raiders Of The Lost Ark".
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Old 19th September 2019, 12:30 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
After his outfit at the Straight Pride march, I figured he'd be off to Japan next. Surely there's a schoolboy fetish porn site there for him.

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I repeat what I said about the Straight Pride march after Chris Evans denounced it: If Captain America says you are bigot, you are probably a bigot.
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Old 19th September 2019, 01:16 PM   #70
Dr. Keith
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I would hope that if such things as Rubin fans exist, they would have to concede that their boy took a beating here:

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I AGREE
It's the typical libertarian circle jerk.

Libertarian: We don't need the government to tell us how to wire a house.

Person: Well, who is going to make sure it is wired properly, I sure as hell don't know how to wire a house.

L: Well, you could hire an inspector to inspect your contractor's work.

P: How do I know that he is going to inspect it to a level that will be good, not overly restrictive or overly lax?

L: Well there could be a group of inspectors who could agree on what is good.

P: Like a code?

L: Yeah.

P: Yeah, that's what we have already that you said we didn't need.

L: Oh, but you could have competing codes!! Nobody is telling you which code to use, man.

P: So how do I pick a code?

L: Well, you hire a code consultant . . .
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Old 19th September 2019, 01:25 PM   #71
Armitage72
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
A big deal has been made about the out-of-control partiers causing problems, public nudity, damage to the hotel, and so on at furry conventions; but people bringing those up never bother to mention that they happen with equal or greater regularity at other conventions.

That seems to be a popular tactic for criticizing groups with fringe interests. I remember "X% of teens who play Dungeons and Dragons commit suicide", with no mention that the suicide rate among teens in general was actually higher than the quoted number for D&D players.
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Old 19th September 2019, 02:38 PM   #72
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
It's the typical libertarian circle jerk.

Libertarian: We don't need the government to tell us how to wire a house.

Person: Well, who is going to make sure it is wired properly, I sure as hell don't know how to wire a house.

L: Well, you could hire an inspector to inspect your contractor's work.

P: How do I know that he is going to inspect it to a level that will be good, not overly restrictive or overly lax?

L: Well there could be a group of inspectors who could agree on what is good.

P: Like a code?

L: Yeah.

P: Yeah, that's what we have already that you said we didn't need.

L: Oh, but you could have competing codes!! Nobody is telling you which code to use, man.

P: So how do I pick a code?

L: Well, you hire a code consultant . . .
This is why I ended my flirtation with Libertarianism.
I agree with them that a lot of government regulations are probably unnecessary, but when they said ALL government regulations are unnecessary I got off the bus.
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Old 19th September 2019, 02:39 PM   #73
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
That seems to be a popular tactic for criticizing groups with fringe interests. I remember "X% of teens who play Dungeons and Dragons commit suicide", with no mention that the suicide rate among teens in general was actually higher than the quoted number for D&D players.
I think D and D moved from fringe to mainstream a long,long, time ago.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
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Old 19th September 2019, 02:51 PM   #74
luchog
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think D and D moved from fringe to mainstream a long,long, time ago.

If it's mainstream, it's barely on the edge of mainstream; and certainly didn't happen "a long long time ago". Within maybe the last decade or two at most. I was still seeing plenty of the "Dark Dungeons" kind of crap on TV and other mainstream entertainment media, and hearing all about how D&D caused kids to do awful things, long after I graduated from High School.

Even after the "D&D is evil" scapegoating crowd died down, it was still something only weird basement-dwelling nerds did, like anime and MMOs.
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Old 19th September 2019, 05:55 PM   #75
a_unique_person
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
It's the typical libertarian circle jerk.

Libertarian: We don't need the government to tell us how to wire a house.

Person: Well, who is going to make sure it is wired properly, I sure as hell don't know how to wire a house.

L: Well, you could hire an inspector to inspect your contractor's work.

P: How do I know that he is going to inspect it to a level that will be good, not overly restrictive or overly lax?

L: Well there could be a group of inspectors who could agree on what is good.

P: Like a code?

L: Yeah.

P: Yeah, that's what we have already that you said we didn't need.

L: Oh, but you could have competing codes!! Nobody is telling you which code to use, man.

P: So how do I pick a code?

L: Well, you hire a code consultant . . .

Flammable panels for high rise apartments. Need I say more. It's costing billions in Australia. Dodgy approvals from privatised building inspectors, dodgy signoffs, dodgy materials, dodgy craftsmanship, dodgy architects. The architect who did a recent review of the state of the modern apartments says just don't buy one. They leak, they crack, the foundations are dodgy. Many of them are good but that problem is ,how do you know one from the other.



You get more consumer protection when you buy a toaster than when you buy an apartment, what's more. It's been a multi-decade greed is good money grab down here in Australia.
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Old 19th September 2019, 06:01 PM   #76
a_unique_person
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I would hope that if such things as Rubin fans exist, they would have to concede that their boy took a beating here:

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I AGREE

Licensed builders. LOL. Australian companies are famous for "Phoenixing". They don't care about ratings/YELP/reputation. They continually shut down old companies and create new ones.
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Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
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Old 19th September 2019, 10:25 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Milo is actually banned from Facebook. He's about as pathetic as one can get. About a year ago he bragged about how much debt he was in, saying it was a sign of success. He has (unsuccessfully) attempted to sell some objects of opulence, such as a throne and a giant self-portrait.

Good article about his recent complaints here.

Deplatforming works.
I laughed so hard the first time I read his whining. Ge, who could have guessed that if you're gay *and* jewish and brag about race-mixing, you may not want to cultivate an audience composed entirely of Nazi wannabes. As soon as he was no longer useful, the...

...what's the word? Oh, yeah...

...idiot was abandoned and brutally mocked by his former fans. Oh well, don't be mad Milo, UPS is hiring. It's good, honest work.

Last edited by Mumbles; 19th September 2019 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 20th September 2019, 05:55 AM   #78
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I think the term is useful idiot (RationalWiki).
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:14 AM   #79
isissxn
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So, is no one going to tell me what Rogan said to Peterson? I'd really like to know, but I don't have time to listen to a 3 and a half hour podcast in hopes that I'll recognize the part people are talking about. Even if I did have time, I'm not currently at liberty to play audio or video content.

Last edited by isissxn; 20th September 2019 at 09:01 AM. Reason: I had typed "Shapiro" instead of "Peterson" for some reason
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Old 20th September 2019, 08:50 AM   #80
Armitage72
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Licensed builders. LOL. Australian companies are famous for "Phoenixing". They don't care about ratings/YELP/reputation. They continually shut down old companies and create new ones.

That happens in the US too. For several years I would periodically find business cards in my mailbox from roof repair companies. Lightning Roofing. Thunder Roofing. Tornado Roofing. Hurricane Roofing. Always the same business card, but with the name changed. Not suspicious at all.
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