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Old 18th September 2019, 07:25 AM   #41
Thermal
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
And if she had gone on to a killing spree, everyone could scream about why were all these obvious warning signs ignored, the cops/her friends/her teachers all have blood on their hands for not doing anything to stop her because they should have known.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, so you may as well err on the side that has the lower casualty rate.
Erring on the side of caution saves lives, so yeah, it's better on balance. Even charging her with a hoax, though...doesn't seem the right charge.

Do they have a criminal charge for saying something incredibly stupid? Like yelling at the airport 'this place is the BOMB!'
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:27 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Eye size and color factor into violent intent? If you say so.
No, I did not "say so". It was a short post. Perhaps you should have read it more attentively.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were not misrepresenting me deliberately, but not by much.
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:47 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
No, I did not "say so". It was a short post. Perhaps you should have read it more attentively.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were not misrepresenting me deliberately, but not by much.
Ok. What does having large brown eyes have to do with having violent intent? For that matter, what does being slight have to do with violent intent?
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:06 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Ok. What does having large brown eyes have to do with having violent intent?
Thermal, surely you've seen works of fiction where a little old lady is swearing up a storm, or where a big burly, bearded biker turns out to be a big softy, or where a cute little girl is in fact a violent demonic creature, etc.?

It's contrast. She's an unremarkable, small woman with intenteds of mass murder. It's a contrast.
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:14 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Thermal, surely you've seen works of fiction where a little old lady is swearing up a storm, or where a big burly, bearded biker turns out to be a big softy, or where a cute little girl is in fact a violent demonic creature, etc.?

It's contrast. She's an unremarkable, small woman with intenteds of mass murder. It's a contrast.
See, I think it's pretty sledgehammered sexism. The first thing said about her is her physical appearance. Big brown eyes, really? Was Dylan Roof's eye color the first thing released upon his capture?

You say it's a contrast. With what? What standards of appearance should we expect from wannabe mass killers, that her eye shape should be of any kind of note whatsoever?

Her eye shape does not impact what I would expect a killer to look like in any way. Could've done with a shot of the caboose, though. For science.
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:19 AM   #46
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Maybe the editor is making the point that guns are an equalizer. Even a small, slight girl with big brown eyes can defend herself effectively with a gun.
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:21 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
See, I think it's pretty sledgehammered sexism.
You seem to be adamant about maintaining your initial impression regardless of arguments.

Quote:
The first thing said about her is her physical appearance. Big brown eyes, really? Was Dylan Roof's eye color the first thing released upon his capture?
Ted Bundy was certainly noted as an attractive man.

Quote:
You say it's a contrast. With what? What standards of appearance should we expect from wannabe mass killers, that her eye shape should be of any kind of note whatsoever?
Are you being deliberately obtuse, here? Or are you pretending that expectations don't exist simply because they don't match reality?
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:24 AM   #48
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Bet it turns into a big nothing like the coast guard guy with the kill list of democrats. I mean has even one law been shown to be broken?
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Old 18th September 2019, 08:32 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You seem to be adamant about maintaining your initial impression regardless of arguments.



Ted Bundy was certainly noted as an attractive man.



Are you being deliberately obtuse, here? Or are you pretending that expectations don't exist simply because they don't match reality?
No need to get snippy just because we are in disagreement. Hey, I have big blue eyes, so I must be a nice guy, right?

Your argument carries the assumption (evidently unknown to you) that mass killers are ugly. Or big. I think that's an odd starting assumption. Having big brown eyes therefore seems a completely out in left field fact to drop in the first paragraph. I imagine the 9/11 attackers had big brown eyes too. Didn't see that in the headlines. It's just subtle sexism.

'The killer, who had a clear complexion and legs for days, was captured last night'. Anything about that seem unusual to you?
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Old 18th September 2019, 09:36 AM   #50
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Good, cops are doing their job. Get her in a mental health facility and call it good.
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Old 18th September 2019, 09:49 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Maybe the editor is making the point that guns are an equalizer. Even a small, slight girl with big brown eyes can defend herself effectively with a gun.
If by "defend" you mean "credibly threaten to kill hundreds at a school" then I think you've nailed it.
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Old 18th September 2019, 10:08 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Eye size and color factor into violent intent? If you say so.

Methinks the reporter was a tad taken with her.
If it was a man it'd be the typical loser kid who got bullied and developed violent fantasies, big puppy eyes or not.
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Old 18th September 2019, 10:20 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
No need to get snippy just because we are in disagreement.
I'm snippy for other reasons entirely:

Quote:
Hey, I have big blue eyes, so I must be a nice guy, right?
This shows that it's not a disagreement. It's you failing, deliberately or not, to get the point.

Quote:
Your argument carries the assumption (evidently unknown to you) that mass killers are ugly.
Again that has NOTHING to do with my argument. That is NOT what I've been saying. I have said NOTHING about whether killers have characteristic X. Read my post again, for comprehension this time.
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Old 18th September 2019, 10:27 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Oh, I get it, and I think that's what the discussion will be about. She didn't do anything, didn't appear to be stockpiling ammo, and her crime seems to be that she openly made a couple silly, childish comments to her friends. Not sure if law enforcement will really go after her for terroristic threats if the threats were delivered with a 'tee-hee', check out this vid of me with my new gun! I'm totes gonna shoot like a million people for funsies! You could shave with my edge!'.

eta: correction, she is being charged with felony terrorist hoax. They didn't take the threat as real, either.
They're holding her on $250K bond. I'd say they're taking it pretty ******* seriously LoL. You don't get that high of bond because the cops think you're just "LoLLerskating" around.

ETA: And apparently the charge can bring up to 10 years in prison:

Quote:
Wilson is currently being held on a $250,000 bond at the Pittsburg County Jail and could face up to 10 years in prison.
I think you're massively downplaying this.
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Last edited by plague311; 18th September 2019 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 18th September 2019, 10:38 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm snippy for other reasons entirely:



This shows that it's not a disagreement. It's you failing, deliberately or not, to get the point.



Again that has NOTHING to do with my argument. That is NOT what I've been saying. I have said NOTHING about whether killers have characteristic X. Read my post again, for comprehension this time.
You say her description is a contrast to what we would expect. Do I comprehend that correctly, or am I being obtuse [/Shawshank Redemtion mode]?

How so, I am asking? What about the freaking size of her eyes is a contrast to a stereotype?

It was a brief throwaway observation about what I think was a slightly smitten journalist. That's all.
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Old 18th September 2019, 10:43 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
They're holding her on $250K bond. I'd say they're taking it pretty ******* seriously LoL. You don't get that high of bond because the cops think you're just "LoLLerskating" around.

ETA: And apparently the charge can bring up to 10 years in prison:



I think you're massively downplaying this.
They called it a hoax, rather than a credible threat. That they take a hoax that seriously is a sign of the times.

But really: a hoax? Did she attempt to trick people, or just foolishly BS with her friends? I think the latter, and she will not face nearly the max sentence or fine. I would suspect they drop charges, as the prosecutor will have a tough time proving a hoax from saying 'I'd like to shoot 400 people'. It is not reported that she made this claim soberly.

eta: police confiscated 'several' rounds of ammunition. Not hundreds. Maybe that's why they are calling it a hoax?

Oh, and on the NBC link in the usatoday article, post#9,, video of her does not look like she is particularly slight. Or even a little slight
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Old 18th September 2019, 10:59 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
They called it a hoax, rather than a credible threat. That they take a hoax that seriously is a sign of the times.
By the way the law is worded it appears "hoax" is just interchangeable with "hasn't been carried out".

I'll agree it's a sign of the times though, and the current times have shown several people getting slaughtered en mass by people with guns.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
But really: a hoax? Did she attempt to trick people, or just foolishly BS with her friends?
Co-workers, I don't believe they were friends. Also, who ******* "BS'es" about murdering 400 people? Let alone who defends someone who thinks talking about murdering people is totally nothing to worry about? Odd.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I think the latter,
The law in Oklahoma doesn't really care what you think apparently.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
and she will not face nearly the max sentence or fine. I would suspect they drop charges, as the prosecutor will have a tough time proving a hoax from saying 'I'd like to shoot 400 people'. It is not reported that she made this claim soberly.
I think you're completely wrong. I think there is absolutely nothing supporting your statement here, and it's not hard to prove considering she said it openly and admitted to it.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:04 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You say her description is a contrast to what we would expect.
Which is not how you characterised it a moment ago.

Quote:
Do I comprehend that correctly, or am I being obtuse [/Shawshank Redemtion mode]?
Oh, you know how to sweet talk me. Movie references are a sure-fire way to endear yourself to me.

Quote:
How so, I am asking? What about the freaking size of her eyes is a contrast to a stereotype?
About the eyes, I'm not sure. Maybe it was meant to also contrast with her small frame.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:08 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Tough one then given US law (or what I know about it)

If she is a nutter who would actually do it then all good, but how do they actually prove it?
They don't have to.

The charge of "making a terroristic threat" has less to do with the actual presumed future terrorist act, and is more of a self-contained crime, akin to "inciting panic" which doesn't have to lead to actual pandemonium to be a chargeable offense.

The crime in making a terroristic threat lives in the making of the threat - a statement that is either designed to cause fear, or made with indifference to the fact that it can be expected to cause fear in a reasonable person who hears it. In the age of mass shootings, including at schools, it's not the burden of the people around you to have to decide whether your statement that you just bought a gun and are "going to shoot 400 people for fun" with it, and even have a specific target in mind, is "meant to be a joke" or not; particularly when actual mass shooters have, in fact, announced their intent via precisely such kinds of statements, and have left manifestos behind laden with jokes, memes, and other half-serious comments.

If you're standing in line to board an airplane and make a joke that there's a bomb in your suitcase, you're getting hauled out of line and arrested, and you're not getting on that plane. Security checking and verifying that there's no bomb in your luggage after all, doesn't get you off the hook; assuming the plane is allowed to leave (without you, of course), the passengers who heard your "joke" might still be fearing for their lives until they get off at their destination. Likewise, the person who hears your "joke" threat after watching a video of you playing with your new rifle, has no way of knowing whether you are or are not "really" stockpiling ammunition and body armor at home, and are in fact a typical, responsible, perfectly upstanding and law-abiding gun owner who thinks school shootings are funny. They just know what you have told them, with the bonus that since you showed them your video, they know for a fact that you have possession of or at least access to a Mass Shooter Special.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:13 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
By the way the law is worded it appears "hoax" is just interchangeable with "hasn't been carried out".
I don't think so. A hoax is a hoax. A threat that hasn't been carried out is an actual foiled attempt.

Quote:
I'll agree it's a sign of the times though, and the current times have shown several people getting slaughtered en mass by people will guns.
And that they take the slightest breathing of those words damned seriously now.

Quote:
Co-workers, I don't believe they were friends. Also, who ******* "BS'es" about murdering 400 people? Let alone who defends someone who thinks talking about murdering people is totally nothing to worry about? Odd.
The wording is a little vague. I see that she said she would like to shoot 400 people for fun. She would also like to get people in the high school she was kicked out of. That's a far cry from 'I am going on a shooting rampage'. To me, anyway.

Quote:
The law in Oklahoma doesn't really care what you think apparently.
Nor would I expect them to. They may lower or drop the charges, though. It does happen. Pretty frequently.

Quote:
I think you're completely wrong. I think there is absolutely nothing supporting your statement here, and it's not hard to prove considering she said it openly and admitted to it.
What did she say beyond 'I would like to', or words to that effect? You see any 'the shooting starts tomorrow' kind of thing in there?
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:20 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Which is not how you characterised it a moment ago.
If I was unclear, my apologies.

Quote:
Oh, you know how to sweet talk me. Movie references are a sure-fire way to endear yourself to me.
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

Quote:
About the eyes, I'm not sure. Maybe it was meant to also contrast with her small frame.
Looking at the video, I don't think she was small framed at all. Pretty normal looking, fairly tall. Seriously, the reporter had a killer crush on her. Well, a hoaxer crush maybe.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:27 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
(panting) Growl.

Quote:
Looking at the video, I don't think she was small framed at all.
Hey, I'm not saying the writer is correct. I'm offering an explanation for their words.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:27 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I don't think so. A hoax is a hoax. A threat that hasn't been carried out is an actual foiled attempt.
So you think they should charge with "Terroristic Foiled Attempt"?

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And that they take the slightest breathing of those words damned seriously now.
As well they ******* should. It beats having 5-30 dead bodies laying around. You don't want to get in trouble for saying you're going to kill people? Don't say you're going to kill people #ProblemSolved

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The wording is a little vague. I see that she said she would like to shoot 400 people for fun. She would also like to get people in the high school she was kicked out of. That's a far cry from 'I am going on a shooting rampage'. To me, anyway.
Like I said before, Oklahoma law doesn't appear to care about your opinion. She said:

Quote:
Wilson had also shown co-workers pictures and videos of her holding an AK-47, saying to them that she wanted to gun down hundreds and "that there were so many people at her old school that she would like to do it.”
She identified a specific location and group of people.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Nor would I expect them to. They may lower or drop the charges, though. It does happen. Pretty frequently.
Yup, that's absolutely possible. Then again, it might so happen that they find more information at her house and on her devices that indicate it was more serious than just ROFLcoptering.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
What did she say beyond 'I would like to', or words to that effect? You see any 'the shooting starts tomorrow' kind of thing in there?
Yeah, she identified a place, and a location and said she wanted dead bodies. I can't believe this conversation is taking place.

This is exactly how the law should work. People saw an issue, reported it to the cops, the person admitted to it, and so far you are the only person making excuses for her. She didn't even make them, she admitted to it.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:36 AM   #64
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Terroristic Foiled Attempt sounds like a steampunk band.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:42 AM   #65
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Plauge311: I say I would like to hold up 400 liquor stores for fun. There are some in my old neighborhood that I'd really like to hit. Even turns out I have a gun and a few rounds of ammo.

What do I get charged with.?

Eta: I'd also like to bone Jennifer Lawrence 400 times for fun. Specific target, even. Got several condoms at home. Am I any closer to actually doing it?

Talk is cheap. Vague talk even more so. But sign o the times, indeed.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:44 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Plauge311: I say I would like to hold up 400 liquor stores for fun. There are some in my old neighborhood that I'd really like to hit. Even turns out I have a gun and a few rounds of ammo.

What do I get charged with.?
Alcoholism.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:49 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Plauge311: I say I would like to hold up 400 liquor stores for fun. There are some in my old neighborhood that I'd really like to hit. Even turns out I have a gun and a few rounds of ammo.

What do I get charged with.?
I would assume some form of conspiracy.

What does that have to do with this though? You could be charged with the same thing. This isn't a hypothetical, it's happening in real life. We don't have to make up different ******* scenarios every time LoL. We have a scenario right here, it's real, it's happening, it doesn't have to be compared to other ****.
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Old 18th September 2019, 11:58 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I would assume some form of conspiracy.

What does that have to do with this though? You could be charged with the same thing. This isn't a hypothetical, it's happening in real life. We don't have to make up different ******* scenarios every time LoL. We have a scenario right here, it's real, it's happening, it doesn't have to be compared to other ****.
Something is lost on you with the real one, so I tried another tact.

You think saying you would like to do something amounts to a crime? You sure about that?
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Old 18th September 2019, 12:07 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Early this week some of the housekeeping staff (we contract with a service) reported that one of the workers had an AR-15 in his backpack, and was selling drugs as well.
The next day, officers waiting at the housekeeping office confronted the fellow and found....

An AR-15 “pistol” and drugs in his backpack, and also outstanding warrants for domestic abuse and drug charges from other departments.

A case where “concerned citizens” actually did some good. There’s no indication that Junior was intending any sort of attack at the university.... Just a typically-paranoid drug dealer.
That service you contract with needs to do some better background checks.
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Old 18th September 2019, 12:08 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Something is lost on you with the real one, so I tried another tact.
Yeah, nothing is lost on me. You seem to be saying that telling other people you want to shoot up a specific location is perfectly dandy with the law.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You think saying you would like to do something amounts to a crime? You sure about that?
LoL yeah, I'm positive. In fact, we have a case right in front of us that supports my saying that as well.

That, to you, it isn't a crime makes no difference at all. Your opinion holds no water here. This girl said she wants to kill people, it was reported to the police, the police arrested her, she admitted it, they charged her with a crime. That's the reality based off of the facts. I'm not having the problem here, you are.

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
That service you contract with needs to do some better background checks.
THAT is the truth right there.
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Old 18th September 2019, 12:33 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Early this week some of the housekeeping staff (we contract with a service) reported that one of the workers had an AR-15 in his backpack, and was selling drugs as well.
The next day, officers waiting at the housekeeping office confronted the fellow and found....

An AR-15 “pistol” and drugs in his backpack, and also outstanding warrants for domestic abuse and drug charges from other departments.

A case where “concerned citizens” actually did some good. There’s no indication that Junior was intending any sort of attack at the university.... Just a typically-paranoid drug dealer.

Why is pistol in quotes? Do you think that was a misnomer of some kind, or that the reporter was showing ignorance of guns? If so, then you're wrong. If the reporter noticed that the pistol WAS an AR-15, then that is quite observant of him.

An AR-15 pistol is an AR-15 that has a barrel shorter than 16 inches, does not have a stock, and is shorter than 26 inches overall. The lack of a stock defines the AR pistol as a pistol.


https://www.ar-15lowerreceivers.com/...pistol-anyway/

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Old 18th September 2019, 12:41 PM   #72
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Looks like she had a "stock sleeve", which I'm not sure is a big deal as they seem common, and around 160 rounds of ammo:

Quote:
On Sunday, deputies reportedly found an AK-47 with six magazines and a 12-gauge shotgun with a stock sleeve for extra shells in Wilson's room. She purchased the gun last week with five extra high capacity magazines and 160 rounds of ammunition from a nearby shop, officials said
By her own admission she:

Quote:
suffered from mental health issues, like suicidal and homicidal thoughts.
I'm glad the cops took her seriously, and people like this should not have guns.
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Old 18th September 2019, 12:45 PM   #73
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...and it looks like I was right as they just upgraded the charges against her and her bond went up to $500k. Why you might ask? Because of what they found on her phone:

Quote:
District Attorney Chuck Sullivan amended Monday’s charge of a terroristic hoax to a more serious terroristic act charge, which carries a punishment of life in prison.

Sullivan says Wilson was well into the planning stages of her suspected plot to kill students at McAlester High School.

And new court documents reveal a search on her phone Tuesday, allege Wilson had been texting about ways to carry out the attack and to do it in area where there are few exits
Basically this wasn't an idle threat, and she only said it wasn't serious when she got caught. She facing life in prison at this point.
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Old 18th September 2019, 12:47 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Something is lost on you with the real one, so I tried another tact.

You think saying you would like to do something amounts to a crime? You sure about that?
And we are back to you can't make mere death threats illegal. Remember folks sending someone death and rape threats is a victimless crime and really it is only when you try to act on them that the police should get involved.
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Old 18th September 2019, 12:50 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Why is pistol in quotes? Do you think that was a misnomer of some kind, or that the reporter was showing ignorance of guns? If so, then you're wrong. If the reporter noticed that the pistol WAS an AR-15, then that is quite observant of him.

An AR-15 pistol is an AR-15 that has a barrel shorter than 16 inches, does not have a stock, and is shorter than 26 inches overall. The lack of a stock defines the AR pistol as a pistol.


https://www.ar-15lowerreceivers.com/...pistol-anyway/

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0xl2vy8byv...ifle.png?raw=1
Of course you can have something that looks a lot like a stock on them as a wrist strap. See the recent Dayton shooting.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/dayton-...le-11565045046

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/08/74866...n-shooters-gun

Why not go with those pictures?
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Old 18th September 2019, 12:54 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Eta: I'd also like to bone Jennifer Lawrence 400 times for fun. Specific target, even. Got several condoms at home. Am I any closer to actually doing it?

Talk is cheap. Vague talk even more so. But sign o the times, indeed.
Apples to oranges comparison. If you were to change "bone" (seriously, who the hell says "bone"?) to "rape", which would be the actual crime you're actually going to commit, then you would be guilty of a crime.

I don't think you're truly this dense, I think you just argue sometimes to play devil's advocate. Which is neat and all, but you're completely wrong on this one. Though, as has been proven in the past, you will never admit it.
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Old 18th September 2019, 12:59 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Erring on the side of caution saves lives, so yeah, it's better on balance. Even charging her with a hoax, though...doesn't seem the right charge.



Do they have a criminal charge for saying something incredibly stupid? Like yelling at the airport 'this place is the BOMB!'
In the UK we do, section 51 of the Criminal Law Act 1977

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/45/section/51
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Old 18th September 2019, 01:07 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
...and it looks like I was right as they just upgraded the charges against her and her bond went up to $500k. Why you might ask? Because of what they found on her phone:



Basically this wasn't an idle threat, and she only said it wasn't serious when she got caught. She facing life in prison at this point.
There you have it.
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Old 18th September 2019, 01:09 PM   #79
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"I'm going to kill 400 people at my former high school with this new gun I just bought" = "vague" now. Got it.
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Old 18th September 2019, 01:22 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
...and it looks like I was right as they just upgraded the charges against her and her bond went up to $500k. Why you might ask? Because of what they found on her phone:

Quote:
And new court documents reveal a search on her phone Tuesday, allege Wilson had been texting about ways to carry out the attack and to do it in area where there are few exits
Basically this wasn't an idle threat, and she only said it wasn't serious when she got caught. She facing life in prison at this point.
Who the **** was she texting with, and have they been, found, picked up and questioned? Hate to think it, but what if this was only one piece of a larger, "group plan"?
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