[Merged] 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread - Page 32

WilliamSeger · 11th January 2009, 12:14 AM

One video that keeps popping up when "explosives" are discussed -- particularly when anyone asks why we don't hear any during the collapses -- is this one:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Usually, this is attributed to explosions at WTC 7, but I've never been able to find out when and where the video was shot. But one version I found on YouTube had a comment mentioning Broadway and Murray. Using the "street view" photos in Google maps, I've found that phone booth: It's on the north side of Murray, just west of West Broadway:

When the camera turns and shows another fireman approaching from east on Murray, we can see that the sun is almost directly behind him:

Using the sun position calculator on the Naval Observatory website, we can tell when the sun was in that approximate position on 9/11/2001 in NYC:

Astronomical Applications Dept.
U.S. Naval Observatory
Washington, DC 20392-5420

NEW YORK, NEW YORK
o , o ,
W 73 55, N40 44

Altitude and Azimuth of the Sun
Sep 11, 2001
NEW YORK, NEW YORK
o , o ,
W 73 55, N40 44

Eastern
Standard
Time Altitude Azimuth (E of N)
...
09:00 37.0 121.5
09:10 38.6 123.9
09:20 40.2 126.5 <---
09:30 41.7 129.1
09:40 43.1 131.9
09:50 44.5 134.7 <---
10:00 45.8 137.8
...

The table gives Eastern Standard Time, but NYC was on Daylight Savings Time on 9/11, so the video was probably shot sometime between 10:20 AM and 10:50 AM. In other words, it was probably shot between the times that WTC2 and WTC1 collapsed, or it may have been somewhat after WTC1 collapsed -- perhaps even during the collapse, and what we hear is WTC 7 getting hit with debris. Of course, WTC 7 collapsed some 7 hours later. I don't know what that sound was (or if it's been faked), but we are certainly not hearing the "explosives" that caused the "sudden onset of free-fall" in WTC7 (some 1.75 seconds after the whole building was already falling).

funk de fino · 11th January 2009, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Nafeez Ahmed about 7/7, 9/11 and the term "conspiracy theory" (9min)

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The guy is a liar

Smackety · 11th January 2009, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger

One video that keeps popping up when "explosives" are discussed -- particularly when anyone asks why we don't hear any during the collapses -- is this one:

http://opendb.com/images/MurrayWBroadway0.jpg

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

I can see why this video would confuse people, it really sounds like an explosion. Wouldn't debris hitting WTC7 occur during the collapse of WTC1? (which would also be audible?)
I might have played too much GTA, but might it be something as simple as a burning car's gas tank exploding?

T.A.M. · 11th January 2009, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger

One video that keeps popping up when "explosives" are discussed -- particularly when anyone asks why we don't hear any during the collapses -- is this one:

http://opendb.com/images/MurrayWBroadway0.jpg

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Usually, this is attributed to explosions at WTC 7, but I've never been able to find out when and where the video was shot. But one version I found on YouTube had a comment mentioning Broadway and Murray. Using the "street view" photos in Google maps, I've found that phone booth: It's on the north side of Murray, just west of West Broadway:

http://opendb.com/images/MurrayWBroadway1.jpg

http://opendb.com/images/MurrayWBroadway2.jpg

When the camera turns and shows another fireman approaching from east on Murray, we can see that the sun is almost directly behind him:

http://opendb.com/images/MurrayWBroadway3.jpg

Using the sun position calculator on the Naval Observatory website, we can tell when the sun was in that approximate position on 9/11/2001 in NYC:

Astronomical Applications Dept.
U.S. Naval Observatory
Washington, DC 20392-5420

NEW YORK, NEW YORK
o , o ,
W 73 55, N40 44

Altitude and Azimuth of the Sun
Sep 11, 2001
NEW YORK, NEW YORK
o , o ,
W 73 55, N40 44

Eastern
Standard
Time Altitude Azimuth (E of N)
...
09:00 37.0 121.5
09:10 38.6 123.9
09:20 40.2 126.5 <---
09:30 41.7 129.1
09:40 43.1 131.9
09:50 44.5 134.7 <---
10:00 45.8 137.8
...

The table gives Eastern Standard Time, but NYC was on Daylight Savings Time on 9/11, so the video was probably shot sometime between 10:20 AM and 10:50 AM. In other words, it was probably shot between the times that WTC2 and WTC1 collapsed, or it may have been somewhat after WTC1 collapsed -- perhaps even during the collapse, and what we hear is WTC 7 getting hit with debris. Of course, WTC 7 collapsed some 7 hours later. I don't know what that sound was (or if it's been faked), but we are certainly not hearing the "explosives" that caused the "sudden onset of free-fall" in WTC7 (some 1.75 seconds after the whole building was already falling).

ummm

Doesn't the "Corner Gourmet" have 43-XX Broadway on its sign?

Would that not make this phone booth on Broadway?

just asking?

TAM

T.A.M. · 11th January 2009, 11:33 AM

ahh, I see, the corner gourmet, is on the "corner" between W. Broadway and Murray. I have looked at the 3d view from ground level, and your location of this phone is correct.

TAM

T.A.M. · 11th January 2009, 11:37 AM

nice peice of work. Even without the sun positioner, clearly from the location of the phone booth, its orientation with the street, and the position of the shadow (in front of him), of the new fireman coming from the east, the sun is still well in the east, which means it is no where mid day at that point.

Nice.

TAM

T.A.M. · 11th January 2009, 11:56 AM

There was some discussion of it here as well...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=67149

TAM

A W Smith · 11th January 2009, 12:29 PM

I had thought it was Murray and Church
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...90&postcount=5

But I see now it was West Broadway.

Horatius · 11th January 2009, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

I did a couple of pages. As far as I'm aware all the initial filtering by forum members has been done and Mark is working on the filtered set now.

Dave

Well, last I heard, Gravy was in the process of moving to a new city, so while I'm sure he'll finish this project, we probably shouldn't expect it right away.

WilliamSeger · 11th January 2009, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

There was some discussion of it here as well...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=67149

TAM

Ah, I thought perhaps someone here had figured it out, but I couldn't find it with the search function. I see that Russell Pickering found the right location and celestrin got about the same time I did. The "street view" photos nail it down, though, so it was worth the effort -- "truthers" really like that video.

T.A.M. · 12th January 2009, 02:40 PM

yup...it was a good effort, and it kind of gives a one liner to them when they bring it up.

"what, oh that video with loud explosions occuring in the morning, yah, I doubt that was WTC7, since it didnt collapse until 5 or so."

TAM

Bell · 12th January 2009, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

yup...it was a good effort, and it kind of gives a one liner to them when they bring it up.

"what, oh that video with loud explosions occuring in the morning, yah, I doubt that was WTC7, since it didnt collapse until 5 or so."

TAM

Wrong again!!

WTC7 was indeed blown up (or pulled it) in the morning. It just took a while for the building to understand what happened to it.

Something with the laws of physics being out of wack that day.

JimBenArm · 12th January 2009, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Bell

Wrong again!!

WTC7 was indeed blown up (or pulled it) in the morning. It just took a while for the building to understand what happened to it.

Something with the laws of physics being out of wack that day.

Yeah, instead of Schroedinger's Cat, it's Schroedinger's Building. We didn't know if it collapsed or not until it was pulled, or something. Yeah, that sounds all science-ey and everything. That's what happened!

T.A.M. · 12th January 2009, 04:32 PM

maybe that explosion was caused by one of the ebil NWO explosive planters dropping one of "da charges" while they were rigging "da building" to blow.

TAM

Bell · 12th January 2009, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by T.A.M.

maybe that explosion was caused by one of the ebil NWO explosive planters dropping one of "da charges" while they were rigging "da building" to blow.

TAM

Waiting for a Horatius cartoon to show us what happened to that NWO explosive planter

jhunter1163 · 12th January 2009, 04:48 PM

WTC7 must have gotten.... BLOW'D UP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td4VEGiIQmk

JoeyDonuts · 12th January 2009, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Bell

Waiting for a Horatius cartoon to show us what happened to that NWO explosive planter

I don't recall WTC having planter boxes installed outside the windows, much less explosive ones. I guess that would explain how they were able to keep it unnoticed - Just replace the potting soil with explosives.

eromitlab · 12th January 2009, 10:56 PM

It seems that prisonplanet has found the 64th "smokin gun!!!!11!" from that attack they don't ordinarily say much about... the Pentagon.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/video-su...-pentagon.html
At prisonplanet, they have apparently "discovered" a video "from the last anniversary of 9/11" in where 9/11 Commission member Tim Roemer (inadvertently?) refers to the Pentagon being "pried open by a missile" before saying "an airplane" a moment later. At least it gives them a chance to throw the "Rumsfeld told Parade Magazine it was a missile" chestnut out there again.
prisonplanet "discovered" the video because it was posted two days ago (by a user whose avatar is a logo for WAC Vancouver) as part of this clip that they link in the article:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The clip starts with the Roemer quote (from CNN American Morning, 8:12am Eastern) and goes on to feature a few of the other assorted "slip-ups", when the likes of Bush and Rumsfeld find themselves unable to lie 24/7/365 (366 in a leap year) and accidentally tell little snippets of the truth about the massive government plot to pull off 9/11... and only those highly attuned truthists can pick up the difference, at which point they string them together, set them to music and include a plug for pseudodocumentaries of a similar bend on Google video.

But what don't they tell you in this video, is how long these words have been out there, heretofore uncited (and subsequently beaten half-to-death) as "proof" that a missile hit the Pentagon. Sure, the prisonplanet article says that it originated "from the last anniversary of 9/11", in an article posted today. So that must mean it came from 9/11/2008... right? Well, if you watched American Morning on 9/11/2008 at 8:12am Eastern, and you don't remember seeing this, are you crazy?

No, you're not.
One search of youtube led me to another instance of this particular clip.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The above clip, of just that little bit with Roemer and nothing added to it, has been sitting on youtube's servers, being viewed approximately thirty-five times a day, since December 4th.
2006.
The info on the video even says it: 9/11/2006.

Not content with telling one big lie in the prisonplanet piece, Watson goes on:

Originally Posted by Steve Watson @ the prisonplanet

Rumsfeld also keeps a piece of the supposed flight 77 on his desk as a reminder of the attacks. He once infamously referred to the grisly souvenir as “a piece of the missile” that hit the Pentagon.

To support this, they link to this Redorbit article that says the following in re this claim:

Quote:

The final investigatory report said the Justice Department inspector general confirmed Rumsfeld "has a piece of the airplane that flew into the Pentagon." The Associated Press obtained a copy of the report Friday.

So... they're obviously not counting on someone looking at their linked citation to see that they made the part about the missile up. So honest, they are. Unless, of course, they're tossing that bit from redorbit and Rumsfeld's Parade Magazine quote into ol' Tyranny Blender 1 in the break room, mixing them together, then reconstituting them into this particular instance to say that Rumsfeld referred to the piece of the plane as a piece of the missile.

I guess this bit belongs best in this thread. Or I suppose there could be a new general discussion thread in the main CT section, for a general assemblage of outright lies and fabrications from the Alex Jones family of websites.

Blender Head · 13th January 2009, 01:45 AM

When I saw Gage last September he tried to say that video (of the 'explosion') was of WTC 7 right before it collapsed, and people next to me believed it.

wow just wow

Blender Head · 13th January 2009, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by eromitlab

It seems that prisonplanet has found the 64th "smokin gun!!!!11!" from that attack they don't ordinarily say much about... the Pentagon.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/video-su...-pentagon.html
At prisonplanet, they have apparently "discovered" a video "from the last anniversary of 9/11" in where 9/11 Commission member Tim Roemer (inadvertently?) refers to the Pentagon being "pried open by a missile" before saying "an airplane" a moment later. At least it gives them a chance to throw the "Rumsfeld told Parade Magazine it was a missile" chestnut out there again.
prisonplanet "discovered" the video because it was posted two days ago (by a user whose avatar is a logo for WAC Vancouver) as part of this clip that they link in the article:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The clip starts with the Roemer quote (from CNN American Morning, 8:12am Eastern) and goes on to feature a few of the other assorted "slip-ups", when the likes of Bush and Rumsfeld find themselves unable to lie 24/7/365 (366 in a leap year) and accidentally tell little snippets of the truth about the massive government plot to pull off 9/11... and only those highly attuned truthists can pick up the difference, at which point they string them together, set them to music and include a plug for pseudodocumentaries of a similar bend on Google video.

But what don't they tell you in this video, is how long these words have been out there, heretofore uncited (and subsequently beaten half-to-death) as "proof" that a missile hit the Pentagon. Sure, the prisonplanet article says that it originated "from the last anniversary of 9/11", in an article posted today. So that must mean it came from 9/11/2008... right? Well, if you watched American Morning on 9/11/2008 at 8:12am Eastern, and you don't remember seeing this, are you crazy?

No, you're not.
One search of youtube led me to another instance of this particular clip.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The above clip, of just that little bit with Roemer and nothing added to it, has been sitting on youtube's servers, being viewed approximately thirty-five times a day, since December 4th.
2006.
The info on the video even says it: 9/11/2006.

Not content with telling one big lie in the prisonplanet piece, Watson goes on:

To support this, they link to this Redorbit article that says the following in re this claim:

So... they're obviously not counting on someone looking at their linked citation to see that they made the part about the missile up. So honest, they are. Unless, of course, they're tossing that bit from redorbit and Rumsfeld's Parade Magazine quote into ol' Tyranny Blender 1 in the break room, mixing them together, then reconstituting them into this particular instance to say that Rumsfeld referred to the piece of the plane as a piece of the missile.

I guess this bit belongs best in this thread. Or I suppose there could be a new general discussion thread in the main CT section, for a general assemblage of outright lies and fabrications from the Alex Jones family of websites.

Great debunking of Alex's bunk! I posted this info on the related Myspace bulletin Alex pumps out, let's see if it stays!

Blender Head · 13th January 2009, 10:04 AM

So the IW article has been edited, removing the RedOrbit article as the source of the "piece of the missle" claim, which is relegated to an unsourced 'Fox New interview'! I have the pre-edited article and will provide screengrabs to those interested!

/triple posting

RedIbis · 13th January 2009, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by eromitlab

It seems that prisonplanet has found the 64th "smokin gun!!!!11!" from that attack they don't ordinarily say much about... the Pentagon.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/video-su...-pentagon.html
At prisonplanet, they have apparently "discovered" a video "from the last anniversary of 9/11" in where 9/11 Commission member Tim Roemer (inadvertently?) refers to the Pentagon being "pried open by a missile" before saying "an airplane" a moment later. At least it gives them a chance to throw the "Rumsfeld told Parade Magazine it was a missile" chestnut out there again.
prisonplanet "discovered" the video because it was posted two days ago (by a user whose avatar is a logo for WAC Vancouver) as part of this clip that they link in the article:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The clip starts with the Roemer quote (from CNN American Morning, 8:12am Eastern) and goes on to feature a few of the other assorted "slip-ups", when the likes of Bush and Rumsfeld find themselves unable to lie 24/7/365 (366 in a leap year) and accidentally tell little snippets of the truth about the massive government plot to pull off 9/11... and only those highly attuned truthists can pick up the difference, at which point they string them together, set them to music and include a plug for pseudodocumentaries of a similar bend on Google video.

But what don't they tell you in this video, is how long these words have been out there, heretofore uncited (and subsequently beaten half-to-death) as "proof" that a missile hit the Pentagon. Sure, the prisonplanet article says that it originated "from the last anniversary of 9/11", in an article posted today. So that must mean it came from 9/11/2008... right? Well, if you watched American Morning on 9/11/2008 at 8:12am Eastern, and you don't remember seeing this, are you crazy?

No, you're not.
One search of youtube led me to another instance of this particular clip.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The above clip, of just that little bit with Roemer and nothing added to it, has been sitting on youtube's servers, being viewed approximately thirty-five times a day, since December 4th.
2006.
The info on the video even says it: 9/11/2006.

Not content with telling one big lie in the prisonplanet piece, Watson goes on:

To support this, they link to this Redorbit article that says the following in re this claim:

So... they're obviously not counting on someone looking at their linked citation to see that they made the part about the missile up. So honest, they are. Unless, of course, they're tossing that bit from redorbit and Rumsfeld's Parade Magazine quote into ol' Tyranny Blender 1 in the break room, mixing them together, then reconstituting them into this particular instance to say that Rumsfeld referred to the piece of the plane as a piece of the missile.

I guess this bit belongs best in this thread. Or I suppose there could be a new general discussion thread in the main CT section, for a general assemblage of outright lies and fabrications from the Alex Jones family of websites.

So you've proven that PP was a year off in when the quote was recorded and you've pointed out where PP conflates two quotes. I'm not a fan of the site, but I don't think they were suggesting that Rumsfeld called the memento part of the missile, but rather referring to how Rumsfeld had referred to 77 in the past.

Your analysis does not debunk the fact that both Roemer and Rumsfeld have previously referred to what hit the Pentagon as a missile.

T.A.M. · 13th January 2009, 05:37 PM

"The Pentagon was hit by a missile"

There look, I said it too.

Still does not make it true, except if you consider a jet traveling at 500 mph a missile, which is probably accurate when it smashes into a building.

TAM

twinstead · 13th January 2009, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

Your analysis does not debunk the fact that both Roemer and Rumsfeld have previously referred to what hit the Pentagon as a missile.

Actually, your being hung up on this kind of crap shouldn't surprise me considering your stance on 'pull it'. Kind of a keystone cops kind of conspiracy, wasn't it? Three major players accidentally tipping their hand like that.

No wonder the intrepid investigooglers of the truth movement figured it all out; if what the truth movement declares is true, 911 was planned and executed by even bigger idiots then they.

Blender Head · 13th January 2009, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

So you've proven that PP was a year off in when the quote was recorded and you've pointed out where PP conflates two quotes. I'm not a fan of the site, but I don't think they were suggesting that Rumsfeld called the memento part of the missile, but rather referring to how Rumsfeld had referred to 77 in the past.

Two years, they were two years off.

If you have a cached version of the unedited InfoWar article, you'll note the following:

Quote:

"Rumsfeld also keeps a piece of the supposed flight 77 on his desk as a reminder of the attacks. He once infamously referred to the grisly souvenir as "a piece of the missile" that hit the Pentagon."

Clearly stating that Rummy 'infamously' referred to the souvenir on his desk as 'a piece of the missle' that hit the Pentagon. They are not conflating quotes, but making them up.

But the edited version says:

Quote:

"Rumsfeld also keeps a piece of the supposed flight 77 on his desk as a reminder of the attacks. During a TV interview with Fox News, he once infamously referred to the grisly souvenir as "a piece of the missile" that hit the Pentagon."

Same thing, different source (though when the interview took place is not stated).

eromitlab · 13th January 2009, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

So you've proven that PP was a year off in when the quote was recorded and you've pointed out where PP conflates two quotes. I'm not a fan of the site, but I don't think they were suggesting that Rumsfeld called the memento part of the missile, but rather referring to how Rumsfeld had referred to 77 in the past.

Actually, they were two years off. In a technical sense; they never specified a date. I can see why; it doesn't serve prisonplanet's own image to admit openly that their new discovery has been around since 2006. Why should I trust the word and subsequent analysis and inferred meaning of a source that's willing to fudge something as simple as a date to keep up their image of uncovering new, damning information?
Also, if prisonplanet wasn't suggesting that Rumsfeld called the memento part of the missile, why did the writer use quotes on that portion?

Quote:

He once infamously referred to the grisly souvenir as “a piece of the missile” that hit the Pentagon.

The intent of that line, to me, is crystal clear; also, it is not supported by the provided cite. If they actually have proof that Rumsfeld said what he's quoted as saying, why are they holding on to it? If they don't, why are they making it appear he said it?

Originally Posted by RedIbis

Your analysis does not debunk the fact that both Roemer and Rumsfeld have previously referred to what hit the Pentagon as a missile.

What's there to "debunk"? Roemer said "missile". He said it on TV; it's not like anyone's trying to say it was fabricated. In a technical sense, AA77 was used by the hijackers as a missile. Furthermore, are we supposed to take Roemer and Rumsfeld's single quotes where they said "missile" (absent any evidence to support that it actually was a missile) as ironclad admissions and discard the totality of the evidence (witnesses, plane parts, bodies) that indicates it was flight 77? Moreover, are we supposed to take Roemer at his word when he said "missile", but not when he said "airplane" a moment later? It's a lot like all the videos that spotlight people who said "bomb" or "explosion" at WTC on 9/11, or those who described the collapses as "like a demolition". It proves nothing.

Cl1mh4224rd · 13th January 2009, 09:08 PM

*ahem*

Quote:

missile
n.

An object or weapon that is fired, thrown, dropped, or otherwise projected at a target; a projectile.
A guided missile.
A ballistic missile.

Rumsfeld's and others' use of the word "missile" to describe Flight 77 is, by definition, correct.

JoeyDonuts · 13th January 2009, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by RedIbis

Your analysis does not debunk the fact that both Roemer and Rumsfeld have previously referred to what hit the Pentagon as a missile.

What kind of missile was it then? If you're suggesting that it was and not a plane, you'd have to supply a viable candidate. Taking quotes from government officials out of context does not absolve you from having to show scientifically that no plane impacted the Pentagon.

But, just go ahead and do what everyone before you has. In the face of inability to address the science necessary to either prove your own claim or to disprove the government's, revert to taking snippets from speeches and interviews that are cherry-picked and subjective at best.

eromitlab · 14th January 2009, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Blender Head

So the IW article has been edited, removing the RedOrbit article as the source of the "piece of the missle" claim, which is relegated to an unsourced 'Fox New interview'! I have the pre-edited article and will provide screengrabs to those interested!

/triple posting

Did they change it in cross-posting to another one of their sites? I just looked at the prisonplanet article again, and the two things I was on about remain unchanged.

Blender Head · 14th January 2009, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by eromitlab

Did they change it in cross-posting to another one of their sites? I just looked at the prisonplanet article again, and the two things I was on about remain unchanged.

http://www.infowars.net/articles/jan...109missile.htm

This is where it is changed.

eromitlab · 14th January 2009, 02:18 PM

Ah, thanks. I went looking over there last night, but couldn't find it. Granted, I didn't spend a whole lot of time over there... what a self-aggrandizing cesspool the place is.

NagP · 14th January 2009, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts

If I could recommend a couple, check out "The Looming Tower" by Lawrence Wright and "See No Evil" by Robert Baer.

I found out that "See No Evil" by Robert Baer is also translated into Japanese.
Thanks.

eromitlab · 15th January 2009, 01:45 AM

Well, it finally happened, and the truthists that scurry about on this other site I use are jumping up and down about it. The episode of "Rescue Me" aired with Daniel Sunjata's character going on about the inside jobby job; specifically, PNAC.
(nsfw for a couple of bits of cursing)

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

It's a little something that has truthists all excited again, even if it's comparable in some ways to last year's pimping of Steve Alten's fictional troof opus. Think about it... they're getting all excited about a two-minute troof monologue by a fictional character (who's a truthist in real life) on a basic-cable drama show.

JoeyDonuts · 15th January 2009, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by eromitlab

Well, it finally happened, and the truthists that scurry about on this other site I use are jumping up and down about it.

You shouldn't be surprised. After all, their greatest inspirations and theories are derived from fictional sources.

Baylor · 15th January 2009, 10:47 PM

A much-needed bump.

dtugg · 16th January 2009, 01:45 AM

I have decided that when I refer to a specific twoofer or group of twoofers, I will refer to it as it rather than the noun it is known by. Would I be violating forum rules by referring to it as it? I would hate to be suspended for violating an unknown rule again.

Baylor · 19th January 2009, 07:04 PM

Anyone seen any new 9/11 opinion polls? Thanks in advance.

T.A.M. · 19th January 2009, 07:58 PM

There was a discussion about one a month or so ago, but I cannot remember the thread.

Sorry.

TAM

RedIbis · 20th January 2009, 06:20 PM

I am happy to admit that I was 100% wrong just a year or so ago when I said that there was no way a black man was going put his hand on a bible and be sworn in as the President of the United States.

T.A.M. · 20th January 2009, 06:25 PM

It is a great day for the world, and in my opinion, a huge step forward for the USA.

TAM

11th January 2009, 12:29 PM	#1248
A W Smith Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,032	I had thought it was Murray and Church http://www.internationalskeptics.com...90&postcount=5 But I see now it was West Broadway.
A W Smith Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7,032	__________________ 911 resource site by Mark Roberts http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home Gravy: Christopher7; You are a Basking Shark in a sea of ignorance. Galileo:The jury said I didn't have any mental defects or diseases, they declared me 100% sane. Has a jury ever declared you sane? Don’t get me lol’n off my chesterfield dude. Last edited by A W Smith; 11th January 2009 at 12:57 PM.

11th January 2009, 03:57 PM	#1249
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 29,563	Originally Posted by Dave Rogers I did a couple of pages. As far as I'm aware all the initial filtering by forum members has been done and Mark is working on the filtered set now. Dave Well, last I heard, Gravy was in the process of moving to a new city, so while I'm sure he'll finish this project, we probably shouldn't expect it right away.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

12th January 2009, 03:52 PM	#1253
JimBenArm Based on a true story! Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 13,092	Originally Posted by Bell Wrong again!! WTC7 was indeed blown up (or pulled it) in the morning. It just took a while for the building to understand what happened to it. Something with the laws of physics being out of wack that day. Yeah, instead of Schroedinger's Cat, it's Schroedinger's Building. We didn't know if it collapsed or not until it was pulled, or something. Yeah, that sounds all science-ey and everything. That's what happened!
	__________________ *"JimBenArm is right"* Hokulele Mom

12th January 2009, 04:48 PM	#1256
jhunter1163 beer-swilling semiliterate Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes. Posts: 25,458	WTC7 must have gotten.... BLOW'D UP! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td4VEGiIQmk
	__________________ A møøse ønce bit my sister

12th January 2009, 09:26 PM	#1257
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 10,536	Originally Posted by Bell Waiting for a Horatius cartoon to show us what happened to that NWO explosive planter I don't recall WTC having planter boxes installed outside the windows, much less explosive ones. I guess that would explain how they were able to keep it unnoticed - Just replace the potting soil with explosives.
	__________________ _{EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!}

11th January 2009, 11:33 AM	#1245
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	ahh, I see, the corner gourmet, is on the "corner" between W. Broadway and Murray. I have looked at the 3d view from ground level, and your location of this phone is correct. TAM

11th January 2009, 11:37 AM	#1246
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	nice peice of work. Even without the sun positioner, clearly from the location of the phone booth, its orientation with the street, and the position of the shadow (in front of him), of the new fireman coming from the east, the sun is still well in the east, which means it is no where mid day at that point. Nice. TAM

11th January 2009, 11:56 AM	#1247
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	There was some discussion of it here as well... http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=67149 TAM

11th January 2009, 11:29 PM	#1250
WilliamSeger Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,092	Originally Posted by T.A.M. There was some discussion of it here as well... http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=67149 TAM Ah, I thought perhaps someone here had figured it out, but I couldn't find it with the search function. I see that Russell Pickering found the right location and celestrin got about the same time I did. The "street view" photos nail it down, though, so it was worth the effort -- "truthers" really like that video.

12th January 2009, 02:40 PM	#1251
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	yup...it was a good effort, and it kind of gives a one liner to them when they bring it up. "what, oh that video with loud explosions occuring in the morning, yah, I doubt that was WTC7, since it didnt collapse until 5 or so." TAM

12th January 2009, 03:20 PM	#1252
Bell Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 21,050	Originally Posted by T.A.M. yup...it was a good effort, and it kind of gives a one liner to them when they bring it up. "what, oh that video with loud explosions occuring in the morning, yah, I doubt that was WTC7, since it didnt collapse until 5 or so." TAM Wrong again!! WTC7 was indeed blown up (or pulled it) in the morning. It just took a while for the building to understand what happened to it. Something with the laws of physics being out of wack that day.

12th January 2009, 04:32 PM	#1254
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	maybe that explosion was caused by one of the ebil NWO explosive planters dropping one of "da charges" while they were rigging "da building" to blow. TAM

12th January 2009, 04:37 PM	#1255
Bell Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 21,050	Originally Posted by T.A.M. maybe that explosion was caused by one of the ebil NWO explosive planters dropping one of "da charges" while they were rigging "da building" to blow. TAM Waiting for a Horatius cartoon to show us what happened to that NWO explosive planter

13th January 2009, 01:45 AM	#1259
Blender Head Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 679	When I saw Gage last September he tried to say that video (of the 'explosion') was of WTC 7 right before it collapsed, and people next to me believed it. wow just wow
Blender Head Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 679	__________________ "As you know, Bush never attempted to link Saddam to the 9/11 attacks." -Ron Wieck "The only way for there to be no conspiracy is for nothing to exist." -Travis [DRG] is a follower of Jesus Christ and the Truth, so I will follow St. Griffin as well in this regard. -Galileo Last edited by Blender Head; 13th January 2009 at 01:48 AM.

13th January 2009, 10:04 AM	#1261
Blender Head Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 679	So the IW article has been edited, removing the RedOrbit article as the source of the "piece of the missle" claim, which is relegated to an unsourced 'Fox New interview'! I have the pre-edited article and will provide screengrabs to those interested! /triple posting
Blender Head Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 679	__________________ "As you know, Bush never attempted to link Saddam to the 9/11 attacks." -Ron Wieck "The only way for there to be no conspiracy is for nothing to exist." -Travis [DRG] is a follower of Jesus Christ and the Truth, so I will follow St. Griffin as well in this regard. -Galileo Last edited by Blender Head; 13th January 2009 at 10:08 AM.

13th January 2009, 05:37 PM	#1263
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	"The Pentagon was hit by a missile" There look, I said it too. Still does not make it true, except if you consider a jet traveling at 500 mph a missile, which is probably accurate when it smashes into a building. TAM

13th January 2009, 05:48 PM	#1264
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,374	Originally Posted by RedIbis Your analysis does not debunk the fact that both Roemer and Rumsfeld have previously referred to what hit the Pentagon as a missile. Actually, your being hung up on this kind of crap shouldn't surprise me considering your stance on 'pull it'. Kind of a keystone cops kind of conspiracy, wasn't it? Three major players accidentally tipping their hand like that. No wonder the intrepid investigooglers of the truth movement figured it all out; if what the truth movement declares is true, 911 was planned and executed by even bigger idiots then they.
	__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

13th January 2009, 06:39 PM	#1265
Blender Head Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 679	Originally Posted by RedIbis So you've proven that PP was a year off in when the quote was recorded and you've pointed out where PP conflates two quotes. I'm not a fan of the site, but I don't think they were suggesting that Rumsfeld called the memento part of the missile, but rather referring to how Rumsfeld had referred to 77 in the past. Two years, they were two years off. If you have a cached version of the unedited InfoWar article, you'll note the following: Quote: "Rumsfeld also keeps a piece of the supposed flight 77 on his desk as a reminder of the attacks. He once infamously referred to the grisly souvenir as "a piece of the missile" that hit the Pentagon." Clearly stating that Rummy 'infamously' referred to the souvenir on his desk as 'a piece of the missle' that hit the Pentagon. They are not conflating quotes, but making them up. But the edited version says: Quote: "Rumsfeld also keeps a piece of the supposed flight 77 on his desk as a reminder of the attacks. During a TV interview with Fox News, he once infamously referred to the grisly souvenir as "a piece of the missile" that hit the Pentagon." Same thing, different source (though when the interview took place is not stated).
Blender Head Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 679	__________________ "As you know, Bush never attempted to link Saddam to the 9/11 attacks." -Ron Wieck "The only way for there to be no conspiracy is for nothing to exist." -Travis [DRG] is a follower of Jesus Christ and the Truth, so I will follow St. Griffin as well in this regard. -Galileo Last edited by Blender Head; 13th January 2009 at 06:46 PM.

13th January 2009, 07:09 PM	#1266
eromitlab Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 919	Originally Posted by RedIbis So you've proven that PP was a year off in when the quote was recorded and you've pointed out where PP conflates two quotes. I'm not a fan of the site, but I don't think they were suggesting that Rumsfeld called the memento part of the missile, but rather referring to how Rumsfeld had referred to 77 in the past. Actually, they were two years off. In a technical sense; they never specified a date. I can see why; it doesn't serve prisonplanet's own image to admit openly that their new discovery has been around since 2006. Why should I trust the word and subsequent analysis and inferred meaning of a source that's willing to fudge something as simple as a date to keep up their image of uncovering new, damning information? Also, if prisonplanet wasn't suggesting that Rumsfeld called the memento part of the missile, why did the writer use quotes on that portion? Quote: He once infamously referred to the grisly souvenir as “a piece of the missile” that hit the Pentagon. The intent of that line, to me, is crystal clear; also, it is not supported by the provided cite. If they actually have proof that Rumsfeld said what he's quoted as saying, why are they holding on to it? If they don't, why are they making it appear he said it? Originally Posted by RedIbis Your analysis does not debunk the fact that both Roemer and Rumsfeld have previously referred to what hit the Pentagon as a missile. What's there to "debunk"? Roemer said "missile". He said it on TV; it's not like anyone's trying to say it was fabricated. In a technical sense, AA77 was used by the hijackers as a missile. Furthermore, are we supposed to take Roemer and Rumsfeld's single quotes where they said "missile" (absent any evidence to support that it actually was a missile) as ironclad admissions and discard the totality of the evidence (witnesses, plane parts, bodies) that indicates it was flight 77? Moreover, are we supposed to take Roemer at his word when he said "missile", but not when he said "airplane" a moment later? It's a lot like all the videos that spotlight people who said "bomb" or "explosion" at WTC on 9/11, or those who described the collapses as "like a demolition". It proves nothing.
eromitlab Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 919	__________________ With my reputation, I do expect everyone to take what I say at face value. -Galileo

13th January 2009, 09:08 PM	#1267
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,778	ahem Quote: missile n. An object or weapon that is fired, thrown, dropped, or otherwise projected at a target; a projectile. A guided missile. A ballistic missile. Rumsfeld's and others' use of the word "missile" to describe Flight 77 is, by definition, correct.
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,778	Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 13th January 2009 at 09:10 PM.

13th January 2009, 09:47 PM	#1268
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 10,536	Originally Posted by RedIbis Your analysis does not debunk the fact that both Roemer and Rumsfeld have previously referred to what hit the Pentagon as a missile. What kind of missile was it then? If you're suggesting that it was and not a plane, you'd have to supply a viable candidate. Taking quotes from government officials out of context does not absolve you from having to show scientifically that no plane impacted the Pentagon. But, just go ahead and do what everyone before you has. In the face of inability to address the science necessary to either prove your own claim or to disprove the government's, revert to taking snippets from speeches and interviews that are cherry-picked and subjective at best.
	__________________ _{EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!}

14th January 2009, 12:31 AM	#1269
eromitlab Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 919	Originally Posted by Blender Head So the IW article has been edited, removing the RedOrbit article as the source of the "piece of the missle" claim, which is relegated to an unsourced 'Fox New interview'! I have the pre-edited article and will provide screengrabs to those interested! /triple posting Did they change it in cross-posting to another one of their sites? I just looked at the prisonplanet article again, and the two things I was on about remain unchanged.
eromitlab Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 919	__________________ With my reputation, I do expect everyone to take what I say at face value. -Galileo

14th January 2009, 08:55 AM	#1270
Blender Head Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 679	Originally Posted by eromitlab Did they change it in cross-posting to another one of their sites? I just looked at the prisonplanet article again, and the two things I was on about remain unchanged. http://www.infowars.net/articles/jan...109missile.htm This is where it is changed.
Blender Head Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 679	__________________ "As you know, Bush never attempted to link Saddam to the 9/11 attacks." -Ron Wieck "The only way for there to be no conspiracy is for nothing to exist." -Travis [DRG] is a follower of Jesus Christ and the Truth, so I will follow St. Griffin as well in this regard. -Galileo Last edited by Blender Head; 14th January 2009 at 09:05 AM. Reason: Redacted request

14th January 2009, 02:18 PM	#1271
eromitlab Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 919	Ah, thanks. I went looking over there last night, but couldn't find it. Granted, I didn't spend a whole lot of time over there... what a self-aggrandizing cesspool the place is.
eromitlab Muse Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 919	__________________ With my reputation, I do expect everyone to take what I say at face value. -Galileo

14th January 2009, 08:31 PM	#1272
NagP Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 122	Originally Posted by JoeyDonuts If I could recommend a couple, check out "The Looming Tower" by Lawrence Wright and "See No Evil" by Robert Baer. I found out that "See No Evil" by Robert Baer is also translated into Japanese. Thanks.
NagP Thinker Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 122

15th January 2009, 02:01 AM	#1274
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 10,536	Originally Posted by eromitlab Well, it finally happened, and the truthists that scurry about on this other site I use are jumping up and down about it. You shouldn't be surprised. After all, their greatest inspirations and theories are derived from fictional sources.
	__________________ _{EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!}

15th January 2009, 10:47 PM	#1275
Baylor Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,394	A much-needed bump.
Baylor Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,394

16th January 2009, 01:45 AM	#1276
dtugg Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 7,885	I have decided that when I refer to a specific twoofer or group of twoofers, I will refer to it as it rather than the noun it is known by. Would I be violating forum rules by referring to it as it? I would hate to be suspended for violating an unknown rule again.
dtugg Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 7,885	Last edited by dtugg; 16th January 2009 at 02:06 AM.

19th January 2009, 07:04 PM	#1277
Baylor Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,394	Anyone seen any new 9/11 opinion polls? Thanks in advance.
Baylor Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,394

19th January 2009, 07:58 PM	#1278
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	There was a discussion about one a month or so ago, but I cannot remember the thread. Sorry. TAM

20th January 2009, 06:20 PM	#1279
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	I am happy to admit that I was 100% wrong just a year or so ago when I said that there was no way a black man was going put his hand on a bible and be sworn in as the President of the United States.
RedIbis Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,899	__________________ (RedIbis, on the other hand, exists to me only in quoted form). - Gravy (Mark Roberts)

20th January 2009, 06:25 PM	#1280
T.A.M. Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 20,795	It is a great day for the world, and in my opinion, a huge step forward for the USA. TAM