[Ed] Ouija - Page 4

Caroline13 · 16th February 2021, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by abaddon

OK, then.
Thread necromancy is frowned upon as a behaviour in general for obvious reasons.

You have 65 posts. How many have I? This should not be a difficult question for you. I have a feeling that you cannot work that out. I could be wrong, but I await your reply.

You have presented a hatload of claims accompanied by NO EVIDENCE OF ANY SORT. Why would any reasonable person find this even vaguely convincing of anything?

I eagerly anticipate your coherent answers.

Moist regards.

What kind of evidence do you want? I do the work I do for curosity, some fun and a diversion from the drag of serious life stuff. Come visit me and we can do some pendulum work.

What are moist regards?

xjx388 · 16th February 2021, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Why does everything have to be scientific? How about some fun and curosity and energy work.

Fun and curiosity? I can get behind that. That’s how most people figure out for themselves what is actually going on. It’s fun to figure stuff out and then use it against the credulous for ***** and giggles!

Energy work? Well, there’s no such thing so that’s out.

Caroline13 · 16th February 2021, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by xjx388

Fun and curiosity? I can get behind that. That’s how most people figure out for themselves what is actually going on. It’s fun to figure stuff out and then use it against the credulous for ***** and giggles!

Energy work? Well, there’s no such thing so that’s out.

Oh you are the energy expert?

What a ton of heavy people here.

arthwollipot · 16th February 2021, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Why does everything have to be scientific? How about some fun and curosity and energy work.

If it can't be tested or measured, how can we say that it exists?

Pixel42 · 16th February 2021, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Why does everything have to be scientific? How about some fun and curosity and energy work.

Both is best. The former without the latter at least produces reliable conclusions, the latter without the former does not.

Pixel42 · 17th February 2021, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

What kind of evidence do you want?

Objective evidence. That's the only kind that is sufficient to reach reliable conclusions. Subjective evidence, i.e. anecdotes, can be misleading, as generations of our ancestors discovered to their cost.

So for water dowsing, for example, objective evidence might be demonstrating that the dowser can tell a covered bucket of water from a covered bucket of sand more often would be expected by chance, when not already aware which is which. You could easily do such a test yourself. If you succeeded, you would be the first dowser ever to do so.

Lothian · 17th February 2021, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Good grief, I didn't even notice the date and YES I'm a new member. And as I mentioned the Ouija Board was mentioned in a discussion the other night on coast to coast but maybe I didn't mention that, but so many love to make mountains out of mole hills, like make something out of such a little thing...Yikes...

Chill out people

Perhaps your homeopathic pills are interfering with your acupuncture meaning the vit c pills you take have misaligned your chakra resulting in the ley lines you have dowsed no longer boost your Refelexolgy pressure points resulting in a much lower green element to your aura. This in turn combined with the lack of a Covid mask will decrease the flow of chi around your body. Add to that a residue of toxins from cupping and urine therapy it really is no wonder that you missed the date while trolling.

Cosmic Yak · 17th February 2021, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

What kind of evidence do you want?

1. Evidence for spirits.
2. Evidence of how these spirits can interact with the physical world.
3. Evidence that the purported messages received by ouija boards actually come from these purported spirits.
It would also be nice to have an explanation of why the spirits can't just talk to us directly. If they can move us, they can move keyboards and pens. Why all this dicking about?

gnome · 17th February 2021, 11:35 AM

It's the rules, when you cross into the afterlife you're given an orientation.

"Okay, you can talk to the living still, but you have to make it mysteeeerious and spoopy and not very clear. And make sure it can only be done with techniques closely resembling those of a faker."

xjx388 · 17th February 2021, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Oh you are the energy expert?

What a ton of heavy people here.

In the sense you are talking about, there is no such thing as an “energy expert.”

And I’m not that heavy. Chunky maybe.

Dude111 · 17th February 2021, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

Why does everything have to be scientific? How about some fun and curosity and energy work.

Yes it IS alot of fun having stuff revealed.......The company who made it must have known the spirits would use it along with people to help them find stuff out!

When you realise the spirit world is very true,its not a mystery how it works.....

kali1137 · 17th February 2021, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Dude111

*
Yes it IS alot of fun having stuff revealed.......The company who made it must have known the spirits would use it along with people to help them find stuff out!

When you realise the spirit world is very true,its not a mystery how it works.....

Got any proof? Silly side stories don't count. Until then, it is a toy for entertainment and nothing more.

arthwollipot · 17th February 2021, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Dude111

The company who made it...

Parker Brothers, I am compelled to remind readers. Now owned by Hasbro.

Axxman300 · 17th February 2021, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

None of these are nonsense. Just because most of you big time skeptics want to believe it and do your best to discredit, many people use all of them and with success.

While I am a big-time skeptic I am also a small-time ghost hunter.

Let me address Ouija Boards from my side of the fence for a moment:

THEY.ARE.CRAP.

Thank you for your time.

Axxman300 · 17th February 2021, 07:17 PM

Okay.

Here's why Ouija Boards are crap:

1. If the concept was in anyway sound, the planchette would move on its own without anyone touching it. It would do this every time.

2. The second you have a human being in physical contact with the planchette anything spelled out is AUTOMATICALLY suspect. And this is being kind.

3.People tend to help the planchette move to get answers they want.

Just by lotto tickets instead. Your odds are a thousand times better.

Cosmic Yak · 18th February 2021, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by Axxman300

Okay.

Here's why Ouija Boards are crap:

1. If the concept was in anyway sound, the planchette would move on its own without anyone touching it. It would do this every time.

2. The second you have a human being in physical contact with the planchette anything spelled out is AUTOMATICALLY suspect. And this is being kind.

3.People tend to help the planchette move to get answers they want.

Just by lotto tickets instead. Your odds are a thousand times better.

It's also rather elitist.
If you were a Chinese spirit, or an Arab spirit, then the western alphabet is useless to you. How do you communicate on such a board? Even if you were a French ghost, where are the accents?
Ouija boards only work for spirits who speak modern English. To me, this seems, as I say, elitist and rather odd.

steenkh · 18th February 2021, 06:46 AM

These arguments are of course also known to real believers who can counter them with the argument that the spirits do not move the planchette by themselves, but through us. This is then why we need to touch the planchette, and why it has the English alphabet: the spirits use our subconsciousness for their purposes.

Darat · 18th February 2021, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by steenkh

These arguments are of course also known to real believers who can counter them with the argument that the spirits do not move the planchette by themselves, but through us. This is then why we need to touch the planchette, and why it has the English alphabet: the spirits use our subconsciousness for their purposes.

True - but you could blind the people (temporarily

) by creating a board with the letters and words randomly moved about and then blindfold the participants.

Bikewer · 18th February 2021, 07:02 AM

But be cautious with your blindfold technique. Martin Gardner said that he knew at least 30 different ways to cheat blindfolds... The simplest being “nose peeking”.

It’s pretty well understood that Ouija boards, and pendulums, and similar devices, all work by means of the “ideomotor effect”, which I didn’t see mentioned here.

http://skepdic.com/ideomotor.html

Spektator · 18th February 2021, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Axxman300

Okay.

Here's why Ouija Boards are crap:

1. If the concept was in anyway sound, the planchette would move on its own without anyone touching it. It would do this every time.

2. The second you have a human being in physical contact with the planchette anything spelled out is AUTOMATICALLY suspect. And this is being kind.

3.People tend to help the planchette move to get answers they want.

Just by lotto tickets instead. Your odds are a thousand times better.

My daughter's Magic 8-Ball agrees with you.

Lothian · 18th February 2021, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

True - but you could blind the people (temporarily

) by creating a board with the letters and words randomly moved about and then blindfold the participants.

I tried that and my ouija board spelt PAUL BE but hen seemed to go haywire as it followed with THKE. Must be broken.

Axxman300 · 18th February 2021, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

It's also rather elitist.
If you were a Chinese spirit, or an Arab spirit, then the western alphabet is useless to you. How do you communicate on such a board? Even if you were a French ghost, where are the accents?
Ouija boards only work for spirits who speak modern English. To me, this seems, as I say, elitist and rather odd.

This is my #1 pet peeve.

I do have a cool Ouija Board story where it answered in Spanish, and the two people guiding the planchette were blindfolded, and neither spoke Spanish. The guy asking the questions was bilingual.

The problem is that I could never recreate this event. The responsible thing to do from there is to write it off as one of those weird things. Plus, during the session we should have had a fourth observer to ensure everything was kosher. It was possible our Spanish-speaker had his finger on the planchette but since we were blindfolded we never knew.

Either way, Ouijas are just silly, and a waste of money and time.

arthwollipot · 18th February 2021, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by Axxman300

This is my #1 pet peeve.

I do have a cool Ouija Board story where it answered in Spanish, and the two people guiding the planchette were blindfolded, and neither spoke Spanish. The guy asking the questions was bilingual.

The problem is that I could never recreate this event. The responsible thing to do from there is to write it off as one of those weird things. Plus, during the session we should have had a fourth observer to ensure everything was kosher. It was possible our Spanish-speaker had his finger on the planchette but since we were blindfolded we never knew.

Either way, Ouijas are just silly, and a waste of money and time.

Is it possible that since you were blindfolded, you didn't see what the planchette spelled out, and the bilingual observer just made up whatever he liked?

The Greater Fool · 18th February 2021, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

It's also rather elitist.
If you were a Chinese spirit, or an Arab spirit, then the western alphabet is useless to you. How do you communicate on such a board? Even if you were a French ghost, where are the accents?
Ouija boards only work for spirits who speak modern English. To me, this seems, as I say, elitist and rather odd.

The planchette is the first ever 'universal translator'. Literally.

Darat · 18th February 2021, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by The Greater Fool

The planchette is the first ever 'universal translator'. Literally.

So that's why the STNG communicator is the shape it is!

gnome · 18th February 2021, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Is it possible that since you were blindfolded, you didn't see what the planchette spelled out, and the bilingual observer just made up whatever he liked?

Cosmic Yak · 19th February 2021, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by steenkh

These arguments are of course also known to real believers who can counter them with the argument that the spirits do not move the planchette by themselves, but through us. This is then why we need to touch the planchette, and why it has the English alphabet: the spirits use our subconsciousness for their purposes.

Then why not reverse the process?
Have the ouija board in Farsi or Chinese, something no-one present understands, let the spirits say what they want to say, and then have it translated to check.
Easy-peasy.

Darat · 19th February 2021, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Is it possible that since you were blindfolded, you didn't see what the planchette spelled out, and the bilingual observer just made up whatever he liked?

That’s the sort of sneakiness that got Randi involved in the debunking of claims made by scientists in labs that were testing people for so called ESP and the like. The scientists were too trusting and weren’t used to dealing with people who were experienced tricksters.

steenkh · 20th February 2021, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

Then why not reverse the process?
Have the ouija board in Farsi or Chinese, something no-one present understands, let the spirits say what they want to say, and then have it translated to check.
Easy-peasy.

Good idea. To guard against the argument that spirits only know the language of the place where they once lived, you should conduct the test in China or Iran to ensure a plentiful supply of Farsi or Chinese-speaking spirits.

Axxman300 · 20th February 2021, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Is it possible that since you were blindfolded, you didn't see what the planchette spelled out, and the bilingual observer just made up whatever he liked?

It is completely possible.

This is why I treat it as a fun story to tell sitting around a campfire and not as proof of woo.

Cosmic Yak · 21st February 2021, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by steenkh

Good idea. To guard against the argument that spirits only know the language of the place where they once lived, you should conduct the test in China or Iran to ensure a plentiful supply of Farsi or Chinese-speaking spirits.

I'm not that well-versed in these things, but, from what I know, there don't seem to be any geographical restrictions on spirits. Native Americans, for example, pop up all over the place, far from the confines of North America.
Also, again from what I know, mediums don't tell their audiences that they've got no chance of getting a message if they're not local to the area.
Perhaps someone here with more knowledge of these things could clarify?

xjx388 · 21st February 2021, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

I'm not that well-versed in these things, but, from what I know, there don't seem to be any geographical restrictions on spirits. Native Americans, for example, pop up all over the place, far from the confines of North America.
Also, again from what I know, mediums don't tell their audiences that they've got no chance of getting a message if they're not local to the area.
Perhaps someone here with more knowledge of these things could clarify?

It’s because souls know no language. Soulspeak (which I’m trademarking so back off!) knows no nationality. When one soul speaks to another it transcends all human understanding. Why are questioning basic knowledge?

Axxman300 · 21st February 2021, 05:04 PM

When you're making stuff up who cares about a zipcode?

Susheel · 21st February 2021, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Caroline13

What kind of evidence do you want? I do the work I do for curosity, some fun and a diversion from the drag of serious life stuff. Come visit me and we can do some pendulum work.

What are moist regards?

The international society for the extremely gullible is --------> that aways.

EHocking · 22nd February 2021, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Susheel

The international society for the extremely gullible is --------> that aways.

Perth?

Cosmic Yak · 22nd February 2021, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by xjx388

It’s because souls know no language. Soulspeak (which I’m trademarking so back off!) knows no nationality. When one soul speaks to another it transcends all human understanding. Why are questioning basic knowledge?

If souls know no language, then they can't communicate with us via a ouija board.
Good luck with that trademarking.

Cosmic Yak · 22nd February 2021, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by xjx388

It’s because souls know no language. Soulspeak (which I’m trademarking so back off!) knows no nationality. When one soul speaks to another it transcends all human understanding. Why are questioning basic knowledge?

By the way, is 'soulspeak' another way of saying 'jive talking'?

xjx388 · 22nd February 2021, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak

By the way, is 'soulspeak' another way of saying 'jive talking'?

No, no no...it’s the universal language of the soul. Their soul speaks to ours in Soulspeak. Our souls influence our brains to move the planchette.

I’ll be announcing Soulspeak workshops soon; only $1995 for a half-hour session -Ouija board not included.

gnome · 22nd February 2021, 10:01 AM

Pah, save your money, everyone, I'm selling Soulspeak-N-Spells for $50 a pop.

16th February 2021, 07:55 PM	#121
Caroline13 Thinker Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: So Calif. Posts: 209	Originally Posted by abaddon OK, then. Thread necromancy is frowned upon as a behaviour in general for obvious reasons. You have 65 posts. How many have I? This should not be a difficult question for you. I have a feeling that you cannot work that out. I could be wrong, but I await your reply. You have presented a hatload of claims accompanied by NO EVIDENCE OF ANY SORT. Why would any reasonable person find this even vaguely convincing of anything? I eagerly anticipate your coherent answers. Moist regards. What kind of evidence do you want? I do the work I do for curosity, some fun and a diversion from the drag of serious life stuff. Come visit me and we can do some pendulum work. What are moist regards?
	Last edited by Caroline13; 16th February 2021 at 07:59 PM.

16th February 2021, 07:57 PM	#122
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,131	Originally Posted by Caroline13 Why does everything have to be scientific? How about some fun and curosity and energy work. Fun and curiosity? I can get behind that. That’s how most people figure out for themselves what is actually going on. It’s fun to figure stuff out and then use it against the credulous for ***** and giggles! Energy work? Well, there’s no such thing so that’s out.
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,131	__________________ Hello.

16th February 2021, 08:26 PM	#124
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,252	Originally Posted by Caroline13 Why does everything have to be scientific? How about some fun and curosity and energy work. If it can't be tested or measured, how can we say that it exists?
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

16th February 2021, 11:55 PM	#125
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,992	Originally Posted by Caroline13 Why does everything have to be scientific? How about some fun and curosity and energy work. Both is best. The former without the latter at least produces reliable conclusions, the latter without the former does not.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

17th February 2021, 12:08 AM	#126
Pixel42 Schrödinger's cat Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malmesbury, UK Posts: 12,992	Originally Posted by Caroline13 What kind of evidence do you want? Objective evidence. That's the only kind that is sufficient to reach reliable conclusions. Subjective evidence, i.e. anecdotes, can be misleading, as generations of our ancestors discovered to their cost. So for water dowsing, for example, objective evidence might be demonstrating that the dowser can tell a covered bucket of water from a covered bucket of sand more often would be expected by chance, when not already aware which is which. You could easily do such a test yourself. If you succeeded, you would be the first dowser ever to do so.
	__________________ "If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett

16th February 2021, 08:01 PM	#123
Caroline13 Thinker Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: So Calif. Posts: 209	Originally Posted by xjx388 Fun and curiosity? I can get behind that. That’s how most people figure out for themselves what is actually going on. It’s fun to figure stuff out and then use it against the credulous for ***** and giggles! Energy work? Well, there’s no such thing so that’s out. Oh you are the energy expert? What a ton of heavy people here.

17th February 2021, 12:57 AM	#127
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 16,103	Originally Posted by Caroline13 Good grief, I didn't even notice the date and YES I'm a new member. And as I mentioned the Ouija Board was mentioned in a discussion the other night on coast to coast but maybe I didn't mention that, but so many love to make mountains out of mole hills, like make something out of such a little thing...Yikes... Chill out people Perhaps your homeopathic pills are interfering with your acupuncture meaning the vit c pills you take have misaligned your chakra resulting in the ley lines you have dowsed no longer boost your Refelexolgy pressure points resulting in a much lower green element to your aura. This in turn combined with the lack of a Covid mask will decrease the flow of chi around your body. Add to that a residue of toxins from cupping and urine therapy it really is no wonder that you missed the date while trolling.

17th February 2021, 04:55 AM	#128
Cosmic Yak Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 3,891	Originally Posted by Caroline13 What kind of evidence do you want? 1. Evidence for spirits. 2. Evidence of how these spirits can interact with the physical world. 3. Evidence that the purported messages received by ouija boards actually come from these purported spirits. It would also be nice to have an explanation of why the spirits can't just talk to us directly. If they can move us, they can move keyboards and pens. Why all this dicking about?
	__________________ Fortuna Faveat Fatuis

17th February 2021, 11:35 AM	#129
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 11,039	It's the rules, when you cross into the afterlife you're given an orientation. "Okay, you can talk to the living still, but you have to make it mysteeeerious and spoopy and not very clear. And make sure it can only be done with techniques closely resembling those of a faker."
	__________________

17th February 2021, 11:52 AM	#130
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,131	Originally Posted by Caroline13 Oh you are the energy expert? What a ton of heavy people here. In the sense you are talking about, there is no such thing as an “energy expert.” And I’m not that heavy. Chunky maybe.
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,131	__________________ Hello.

17th February 2021, 12:48 PM	#131
Dude111 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 314	Originally Posted by Caroline13 Why does everything have to be scientific? How about some fun and curosity and energy work. Yes it IS alot of fun having stuff revealed.......The company who made it must have known the spirits would use it along with people to help them find stuff out! When you realise the spirit world is very true,its not a mystery how it works.....
Dude111 Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 314

17th February 2021, 01:02 PM	#132
kali1137 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Purgatory, PA Posts: 1,652	Originally Posted by Dude111 * Yes it IS alot of fun having stuff revealed.......The company who made it must have known the spirits would use it along with people to help them find stuff out! When you realise the spirit world is very true,its not a mystery how it works..... Got any proof? Silly side stories don't count. Until then, it is a toy for entertainment and nothing more.

17th February 2021, 04:56 PM	#133
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,252	Originally Posted by Dude111 The company who made it... Parker Brothers, I am compelled to remind readers. Now owned by Hasbro.
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

17th February 2021, 07:10 PM	#134
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,892	Originally Posted by Caroline13 None of these are nonsense. Just because most of you big time skeptics want to believe it and do your best to discredit, many people use all of them and with success. While I am a big-time skeptic I am also a small-time ghost hunter. Let me address Ouija Boards from my side of the fence for a moment: THEY.ARE.CRAP. Thank you for your time.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

17th February 2021, 07:17 PM	#135
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,892	Okay. Here's why Ouija Boards are crap: 1. If the concept was in anyway sound, the planchette would move on its own without anyone touching it. It would do this every time. 2. The second you have a human being in physical contact with the planchette anything spelled out is AUTOMATICALLY suspect. And this is being kind. 3.People tend to help the planchette move to get answers they want. Just by lotto tickets instead. Your odds are a thousand times better.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

18th February 2021, 05:01 AM	#136
Cosmic Yak Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 3,891	Originally Posted by Axxman300 Okay. Here's why Ouija Boards are crap: 1. If the concept was in anyway sound, the planchette would move on its own without anyone touching it. It would do this every time. 2. The second you have a human being in physical contact with the planchette anything spelled out is AUTOMATICALLY suspect. And this is being kind. 3.People tend to help the planchette move to get answers they want. Just by lotto tickets instead. Your odds are a thousand times better. It's also rather elitist. If you were a Chinese spirit, or an Arab spirit, then the western alphabet is useless to you. How do you communicate on such a board? Even if you were a French ghost, where are the accents? Ouija boards only work for spirits who speak modern English. To me, this seems, as I say, elitist and rather odd.
	__________________ Fortuna Faveat Fatuis

18th February 2021, 06:46 AM	#137
steenkh Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 6,135	These arguments are of course also known to real believers who can counter them with the argument that the spirits do not move the planchette by themselves, but through us. This is then why we need to touch the planchette, and why it has the English alphabet: the spirits use our subconsciousness for their purposes.
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

18th February 2021, 06:51 AM	#138
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,909	Originally Posted by steenkh These arguments are of course also known to real believers who can counter them with the argument that the spirits do not move the planchette by themselves, but through us. This is then why we need to touch the planchette, and why it has the English alphabet: the spirits use our subconsciousness for their purposes. True - but you could blind the people (temporarily ) by creating a board with the letters and words randomly moved about and then blindfold the participants.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

18th February 2021, 07:02 AM	#139
Bikewer Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 12,886	But be cautious with your blindfold technique. Martin Gardner said that he knew at least 30 different ways to cheat blindfolds... The simplest being “nose peeking”. It’s pretty well understood that Ouija boards, and pendulums, and similar devices, all work by means of the “ideomotor effect”, which I didn’t see mentioned here. http://skepdic.com/ideomotor.html

18th February 2021, 09:13 AM	#140
Spektator Watching . . . always watching. Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeastern USA Posts: 1,937	Originally Posted by Axxman300 Okay. Here's why Ouija Boards are crap: 1. If the concept was in anyway sound, the planchette would move on its own without anyone touching it. It would do this every time. 2. The second you have a human being in physical contact with the planchette anything spelled out is AUTOMATICALLY suspect. And this is being kind. 3.People tend to help the planchette move to get answers they want. Just by lotto tickets instead. Your odds are a thousand times better. My daughter's Magic 8-Ball agrees with you.

18th February 2021, 10:30 AM	#141
Lothian should be banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Earth, specifically the crusty bit on the outside Posts: 16,103	Originally Posted by Darat True - but you could blind the people (temporarily ) by creating a board with the letters and words randomly moved about and then blindfold the participants. I tried that and my ouija board spelt PAUL BE but hen seemed to go haywire as it followed with THKE. Must be broken.
	Last edited by Lothian; 18th February 2021 at 10:32 AM.

18th February 2021, 02:07 PM	#142
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,892	Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak It's also rather elitist. If you were a Chinese spirit, or an Arab spirit, then the western alphabet is useless to you. How do you communicate on such a board? Even if you were a French ghost, where are the accents? Ouija boards only work for spirits who speak modern English. To me, this seems, as I say, elitist and rather odd. This is my #1 pet peeve. I do have a cool Ouija Board story where it answered in Spanish, and the two people guiding the planchette were blindfolded, and neither spoke Spanish. The guy asking the questions was bilingual. The problem is that I could never recreate this event. The responsible thing to do from there is to write it off as one of those weird things. Plus, during the session we should have had a fourth observer to ensure everything was kosher. It was possible our Spanish-speaker had his finger on the planchette but since we were blindfolded we never knew. Either way, Ouijas are just silly, and a waste of money and time.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

18th February 2021, 03:26 PM	#143
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 70,252	Originally Posted by Axxman300 This is my #1 pet peeve. I do have a cool Ouija Board story where it answered in Spanish, and the two people guiding the planchette were blindfolded, and neither spoke Spanish. The guy asking the questions was bilingual. The problem is that I could never recreate this event. The responsible thing to do from there is to write it off as one of those weird things. Plus, during the session we should have had a fourth observer to ensure everything was kosher. It was possible our Spanish-speaker had his finger on the planchette but since we were blindfolded we never knew. Either way, Ouijas are just silly, and a waste of money and time. Is it possible that since you were blindfolded, you didn't see what the planchette spelled out, and the bilingual observer just made up whatever he liked?
	__________________ Please scream inside your heart.

18th February 2021, 04:13 PM	#144
The Greater Fool Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Milky Way, Sol, Earth, Northern Hemisphere, USA, AZ, Scottsdale Posts: 4,324	Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak It's also rather elitist. If you were a Chinese spirit, or an Arab spirit, then the western alphabet is useless to you. How do you communicate on such a board? Even if you were a French ghost, where are the accents? Ouija boards only work for spirits who speak modern English. To me, this seems, as I say, elitist and rather odd. The planchette is the first ever 'universal translator'. Literally.
	__________________ - "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Various; Uknown] - "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']

18th February 2021, 04:14 PM	#145
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,909	Originally Posted by The Greater Fool The planchette is the first ever 'universal translator'. Literally. So that's why the STNG communicator is the shape it is!
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

18th February 2021, 04:21 PM	#146
gnome Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 11,039	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Is it possible that since you were blindfolded, you didn't see what the planchette spelled out, and the bilingual observer just made up whatever he liked?
	__________________

19th February 2021, 05:07 AM	#147
Cosmic Yak Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 3,891	Originally Posted by steenkh These arguments are of course also known to real believers who can counter them with the argument that the spirits do not move the planchette by themselves, but through us. This is then why we need to touch the planchette, and why it has the English alphabet: the spirits use our subconsciousness for their purposes. Then why not reverse the process? Have the ouija board in Farsi or Chinese, something no-one present understands, let the spirits say what they want to say, and then have it translated to check. Easy-peasy.
	__________________ Fortuna Faveat Fatuis

19th February 2021, 05:18 AM	#148
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 96,909	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Is it possible that since you were blindfolded, you didn't see what the planchette spelled out, and the bilingual observer just made up whatever he liked? That’s the sort of sneakiness that got Randi involved in the debunking of claims made by scientists in labs that were testing people for so called ESP and the like. The scientists were too trusting and weren’t used to dealing with people who were experienced tricksters.
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

20th February 2021, 01:24 AM	#149
steenkh Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 6,135	Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak Then why not reverse the process? Have the ouija board in Farsi or Chinese, something no-one present understands, let the spirits say what they want to say, and then have it translated to check. Easy-peasy. Good idea. To guard against the argument that spirits only know the language of the place where they once lived, you should conduct the test in China or Iran to ensure a plentiful supply of Farsi or Chinese-speaking spirits.
	__________________ Steen -- Jack of all trades - master of none!

20th February 2021, 04:54 PM	#150
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,892	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Is it possible that since you were blindfolded, you didn't see what the planchette spelled out, and the bilingual observer just made up whatever he liked? It is completely possible. This is why I treat it as a fun story to tell sitting around a campfire and not as proof of woo.
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

21st February 2021, 03:47 PM	#151
Cosmic Yak Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand. Posts: 3,891	Originally Posted by steenkh Good idea. To guard against the argument that spirits only know the language of the place where they once lived, you should conduct the test in China or Iran to ensure a plentiful supply of Farsi or Chinese-speaking spirits. I'm not that well-versed in these things, but, from what I know, there don't seem to be any geographical restrictions on spirits. Native Americans, for example, pop up all over the place, far from the confines of North America. Also, again from what I know, mediums don't tell their audiences that they've got no chance of getting a message if they're not local to the area. Perhaps someone here with more knowledge of these things could clarify?
	__________________ Fortuna Faveat Fatuis

21st February 2021, 04:50 PM	#152
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,131	Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak I'm not that well-versed in these things, but, from what I know, there don't seem to be any geographical restrictions on spirits. Native Americans, for example, pop up all over the place, far from the confines of North America. Also, again from what I know, mediums don't tell their audiences that they've got no chance of getting a message if they're not local to the area. Perhaps someone here with more knowledge of these things could clarify? It’s because souls know no language. Soulspeak (which I’m trademarking so back off!) knows no nationality. When one soul speaks to another it transcends all human understanding. Why are questioning basic knowledge?
xjx388 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,131	__________________ Hello.

21st February 2021, 05:04 PM	#153
Axxman300 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Central California Coast Posts: 4,892	When you're making stuff up who cares about a zipcode?
	__________________ Disingenuous Piranha

21st February 2021, 10:32 PM	#154
Susheel Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hyderabad, India Posts: 1,755	Originally Posted by Caroline13 What kind of evidence do you want? I do the work I do for curosity, some fun and a diversion from the drag of serious life stuff. Come visit me and we can do some pendulum work. What are moist regards? The international society for the extremely gullible is --------> that aways.
	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

22nd February 2021, 01:37 AM	#155
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,530	Originally Posted by Susheel The international society for the extremely gullible is --------> that aways. Perth?
EHocking Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,530	__________________ "A closed mouth gathers no feet" "Ignorance is a renewable resource" P.J.O'Rourke "It's all god's handiwork, there's little quality control applied", Fox26 reporter on Texas granite You can't make up anything anymore. The world itself is a satire. All you're doing is recording it. Art Buchwald