Merged: Money/inequalities - Part 3 / Poll - willing to work for free?

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

You should pay the maximum price, everything you can give, but you don't want to do that. You have to take a human as it is.

Nope, one negotiates a fair price for whatever job. I do it all the time. As a matter of course. That's how it works.

Maybe it doesn't work that way in your current employ. Fine. Nothing stops you from seeking a different job if you are unsatisfied with your current employ. You will not accept that because you think there should be no employ at all. You think that merit has no value whatsoever.

Nowm, I have not had to rely on handouts throughout this pandemic. Why? Because what I do has value to people. Were they not paying me, I would have no reason to do it. Under your model, there would be no internet for you to spout your absurdities upon.

What you are really advocating for is a return to a hunter/gatherer lifestyle, where women die in childbirth for lack of medical facilities, disabled children are left to die, injured or sick people are left to fend for themselves, and so on.

What you are doing is preaching hate for life. Because you are in a rush to get to your imaginary second imaginary life in your imaginary heaven. That you imagine.

In all of this, the one thing you fail to do is present any evidence for this phantasm that you seem to believe in. It clearly is not the christian god of tradition, because you present no evidence that it is even real. None. You make stuff up, lie about the bibble, invent extra biblical nonsense out of whole cloth, the list goes on.

You even promote non-christian concepts.

On top of that, you seem to have no idea what your magic book says, since it appears that you have never read it.

Now, I cannot read your mind, nor anyone elses, but this does not seem to me to be a convincing argument for anything' "Because I say so" is not convincing at any level.

[bruto]

How we imagine our ambitions.....

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by abaddon

Nope, one negotiates a fair price for whatever job. I do it all the time. As a matter of course. That's how it works.

The fair price is zero dollar because that's the price you want to pay for your neighbour labor.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

The fair price is zero dollar because that's the price you want to pay for your neighbour labor.

The fact that you want something makes it neither right nor practicable.

What you want is only half the transaction.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I know that i don't serve God or humanity by using the system of money, that's why i want to abolish money. Off course a rich can't enter haven but it is not only that money can makes you rich, it is the use of money itself, you can't charge for the work done for your labor because you don't want to pay for the work of others, it is simply a matter of justice, the rule you apply to others applies to you, it is only justice, no justice, no haven. The justice is to treat your neighbour as you want to be treated not as he treats you. Money is the tool to treat your neighbour as he treats you. When people go shopping they want to pay the minimum price, zero dollar then the price you are allowed to charge for your work is zero dollar, it is only a matter of justice, the rule you apply to your neighbour applies to you, there can't be two different rule, one good for you, the minimum price and the maximum price paid for your work because it is not justice.

So you are currently not serving God. So from whom is this idea really coming from if you aren't serving God?

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by bruto

The fact that you want something makes it neither right nor practicable.

What you want is only half the transaction.

There can't be different rules for fixing price, to be paid the highest price for your work and pay the lowest price for the work of your neighbour is not just. He wanted to be treated a different rule than he treats his neighbour

23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold[h] was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins.[i] He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’

30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

[Matthew Ellard]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

The fair price is zero dollar because that's the price you want to pay for your neighbour labor.

No. That's complete crap. In both human psychology and basic economics there are two curves. The Demand Curve and the Supply Curve.

An exchange only takes place where both curves intersect at price (money)

So far all you have posted is religious fantasy about heaven where your God supplies everything for free.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

The fair price is zero dollar because that's the price you want to pay for your neighbour labor.

Utterly wrong. I have no problem paying my neighbour a fair price for any labour. That is YOUR problem. You want everything for free for yourself because you are that selfish.

Meanwhile, why do you continue to serve satan?

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by abaddon

Utterly wrong. I have no problem paying my neighbour a fair price for any labour.

This is not the truth. When people go shopping and see a product 2$ and the same product beside it at 0$, 99% take the product at 0$ the rest is creasy.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

This is not the truth. When people go shopping and see a product 2$ and the same product beside it at 0$, 99% take the product at 0$ the rest is creasy.

Of course. Taking an offer is not the same as believing everything should always be free. I like gifts, and receive them with pleasure. I also sometimes give gifts, and also do that with pleasure. I'd be a raging idiot if I thought this was the model for all transactions. As the Bible says more than once, the laborer is worthy of his hire.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by bruto

Of course. Taking an offer is not the same as believing everything should always be free. I like gifts, and receive them with pleasure. I also sometimes give gifts, and also do that with pleasure. I'd be a raging idiot if I thought this was the model for all transactions. As the Bible says more than once, the laborer is worthy of his hire.

This is not idiot this is justice, you can't charge for your labor because you don't want to pay for the work of your neighbour.

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

The difference between God and the devil:

God forgives; the devil never forgives.
God shares with others; the devil doesn't share anything, it's every man for himself.
God gives freely; when the devil gives, he always asks for something in return.
God loves, the devil loves no one.
God is devoted to others, the devil thinks only of himself.
God makes free; with the devil you're not free, you're stuffed with taxes, you can't eat or drink what you want, you can't dress how you want, you can't work when you want

You can replace the devil by money it is exactly the samething

Similarities between god and the devil:

They both kill people for fun.
They enjoy gambling.
They don't exist.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

This is not idiot this is justice, you can't charge for your labor because you don't want to pay for the work of your neighbour.

But unless you're your neighbor's slave, you can refuse to do what he asks. You can choose what you do, and for whom, and so can your neighbor. Unless both make that choice with some regard for what they need in return, they're idiots (or slaves).

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by bruto

But unless you're your neighbor's slave, you can refuse to do what he asks. You can choose what you do, and for whom, and so can your neighbor. Unless both make that choice with some regard for what they need in return, they're idiots (or slaves).

In return for your work at no charge you take pruducts done for no charge

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

In return for your work at no charge you take pruducts done for no charge

Here is the fundamental problem, you can't both do something for no charge and also "in return, take" as they are exactly the opposite. If you do something for no charge, there is no charge. You can't honestly then say that it entitles you to take everything that everyone else produces.

Also, you still haven't told us who you are serving, because it can't be god. Since you currently serve money, right? Why are you serving the devil? Why should any of us follow you and your self described satanic ways?

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

You can say you want to pay for the work of your neighbour but the truth is that you don't want to pay as every human being then you can't charge for your work.

I can say it and I do it, which means I can charge for my work because I do pay for the work of others. Even work I could easily do myself.

Do you pay for the work of others.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

This is not the truth. When people go shopping and see a product 2$ and the same product beside it at 0$, 99% take the product at 0$ the rest is creasy.

Ah, so people are just "creasy" if they don't want to rip off their neighbors like you and actually want to apply what you have called "justice".

Why do you want to steal from your neighbor? Don't you get paid for your work? So by your stated "justice" you should ensure your neighbor also gets paid for their work by taking only the 2$ product.

Why are you so confused? You call it "justice", to ensure your neighbor gets paid as you do, in one post and then "creasy" in another?

Remember no one can agree with you until you can at least agree with just yourself.

[The Man]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

This is not idiot this is justice, you can't charge for your labor because you don't want to pay for the work of your neighbour.

Do you get paid for your work?

Do you pay for the work of others?

While you might "want" something else, this is what you do and it conforms to your given 'do unto others' and 'love thy neighbor' requirements of "justice".