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Old 28th February 2021, 11:40 AM   #921
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Yale University and Ms. Braasch

I don't know the facts of the sleeping incident as well as I would like to, but I am wiling to take as a given that the cops acted like jerks. The incident as a whole looks, however, to be made up of several smaller incidents, at least one of which puts Yale in a bad light, relative to Ms. Braasch. "Yale is fighting a war of attrition, using Braasch’s financial hardship against her, delaying the disclosure as long as possible so that interest will wane and no one will be interested in Yale’s enabling this story of racism to become part of the indisputable lore, and reflect Yale’s commitment to social justice." Link. Integrating across the last ten years, Yale University has shown itself to be unfair to students defending themselves in the area of alleged sexual misconduct: the cases of Patrick Witt, Jack Montague, and Saifullah Khan come to mind, and there may well be others. Perhaps Yale wishes to appear woke, or perhaps they want to protect the Yale brand. Cathy Young's account also showed that Yale acted poorly in denying Ms. Braasch's request to see the charge against her.
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Old 28th February 2021, 11:44 AM   #922
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the student on the twelfth floor

Cathy Young wrote, "At one point, Siyonbola said that the same woman had previously called the police on a friend of hers 'because he was in the stairwell and because he’s black.'"

Siyonbola's assertion is debatable. In addition to Scott Greefield's arguments at this link, here is what Cathy Young wrote, "According to Jean-Louis, the cops themselves suggested that the white dorm resident might have been suspicious because of his race and told him that such profiling happened 'all the time.'"
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Old 28th February 2021, 12:10 PM   #923
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"We're not racist, ma'am. The person who called this in might be racist, but that's not our fault."
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Old 28th February 2021, 01:06 PM   #924
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
Cathy Young wrote, "At one point, Siyonbola said that the same woman had previously called the police on a friend of hers 'because he was in the stairwell and because he’s black.'"

Siyonbola's assertion is debatable. Here is what Cathy Young wrote, "According to Jean-Louis, the cops themselves suggested that the white dorm resident might have been suspicious because of his race and told him that such profiling happened 'all the time.'"

Well. I guess that makes it alright then. Nothing to see here.
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Old 28th February 2021, 01:07 PM   #925
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"We're not racist, ma'am. The person who called this in might be racist, but that's not our fault."
And riffing on this...

"we just happened to behave like racist idiots when we attended the call... how were we to know that she wasn't guilty? "
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Old 28th February 2021, 01:54 PM   #926
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's not the responsibility of a black person who regularly endures the effects of racism to consider whether this-particular-white-person harassing them in this-particular-instance might be doing so because of alleged mental health issues rather than racism and tone-police their own objection to their harassment.

An investigation after the fact by a journalist may have found out that Braach stopped taking medicine for some mental health issue a few years ago; but at the time it looked and quacked like a duck, and Siyonbola was not "wrong" to call it a duck.
IIRC, this was discussed earlier in the thread. Seems Siyonbola led a pretty good life, yet dedicated some portion of that to tormenting the mentally unwell Braach. There is nothing to indicate Siyonbola was on the defensive position when they met. In fact, there was evidence that she had been the tormentor in their relationship.
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Old 28th February 2021, 03:08 PM   #927
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No, I'm not willing to blame black people who resist police intrusion in their lives by kowtowing in overly polite ways.

Yes, if I had a black child, especially a son I would tell them to tread very carefully when approached by police. But this woman was in her own dorm and when challenged, she opened the bloody door to her room with a key.

What were police thinking, that she stole the key? On what evidence other than racism did they need an ID after she opened the room with a key? If she stole the key to the room, why would she have been sleeping in the common room?

Typical bully cops, they asked for ID then demanded that was required.

Give me a break! At the point she opened her room door with a key, those campus wannabe cops should have told the Karen who called them that maybe she should have been a bit nicer and not started a confrontation.
It does make one wonder why schools bother with student IDs, when all they need is a key.
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Old 28th February 2021, 03:17 PM   #928
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
It does make one wonder why schools bother with student IDs, when all they need is a key.
Come on man: when a cop pulls you over, you only need to show him your car key to prove you have ownership and the right to operate it and also serves as identification, right?
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Old 28th February 2021, 03:27 PM   #929
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"We're not racist, ma'am. The person who called this in might be racist, but that's not our fault."


This is, of course, a legitimate problem. When 9-1-1 gets a call about "someone" doing "something", the cops have no way of knowing what's really going on on the scene until they arrive.

What they need to do is acknowledge that, in a depressing large number of cases, what the real complaint is, is that someone is black in the wrong place.

Look at this case: a while person with an acknowledged mental illness was given more consideration than the black person who was where they had every right to be.

That's a problem, no matter how you try to spin it.
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Old 28th February 2021, 03:38 PM   #930
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
This is, of course, a legitimate problem. When 9-1-1 gets a call about "someone" doing "something", the cops have no way of knowing what's really going on on the scene until they arrive.

What they need to do is acknowledge that, in a depressing large number of cases, what the real complaint is, is that someone is black in the wrong place.

Look at this case: a while person with an acknowledged mental illness was given more consideration than the black person who was where they had every right to be.

That's a problem, no matter how you try to spin it.
How do you figure? The cops arrived, asked both for ID, separated and questioned them, then after getting the story they berated Braach for calling. They didn't even know Siyonbola was black till they arrived. Nor did Braach, evidently. How the hell was favoritism shown?
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Old 28th February 2021, 03:47 PM   #931
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
It does make one wonder why schools bother with student IDs, when all they need is a key.
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Come on man: when a cop pulls you over, you only need to show him your car key to prove you have ownership and the right to operate it and also serves as identification, right?
You guys can't be serious. A person, any person has a Constitutional right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. A police officer has to have a reasonable motive to question you and the moment the motive becomes unreasonable, he needs to leave you alone.

If the reason is questioning someone's legitimate purpose to a home or dorm room and that person produces a key to that dorm, they present no other reasonable suspicion for inquiry. No more than any other student.

One of my favorite YouTube channels is called "Audit the audit". It shows proper and not so proper police interactions. It includes both cops and citizens who know the law and plenty of both who don't.
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Old 28th February 2021, 03:58 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
There is nothing to indicate Siyonbola was on the defensive position when they met. In fact, there was evidence that she had been the tormentor in their relationship.
I don't recall any compelling evidence in that direction.

Siyonbola certainly was not "tormenting" Braach by sleeping on the common room couch when Braach entered the room and began harassing her, and then called the police despite being apparently well aware that she was a building resident.
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Old 28th February 2021, 04:33 PM   #933
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
It does make one wonder why schools bother with student IDs, when all they need is a key.
Stupid remark. You're not going to show your key at the student book store to get your discount, now are you. Or any place other than unlocking the door to your dorm room with a key.
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Old 28th February 2021, 04:34 PM   #934
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Come on man: when a cop pulls you over, you only need to show him your car key to prove you have ownership and the right to operate it and also serves as identification, right?
Is this sarcasm? Because if it isn't then see my post above.
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Old 28th February 2021, 04:41 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
How do you figure? The cops arrived, asked both for ID, separated and questioned them, then after getting the story they berated Braach for calling. They didn't even know Siyonbola was black till they arrived. Nor did Braach, evidently. How the hell was favoritism shown?
How is that relevant? The issue was after they arrived, not that they responded to the call in the first place.

Campus cops need sensitivity training. You get there, a woman has her study materials and is in the common room. So what Braach had her ID on her. You don't bring your purse down to study in the common room. It's like your living room. Do you bring your ID to the living room if it isn't in your pocket?

There was no reason for the cops to insist Siyonbola show them her ID in addition to proving she was in her own dorm.
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Old 28th February 2021, 04:49 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
It does make one wonder why schools bother with student IDs, when all they need is a key.
Does Yale require that dorm residents carry their student ID with them when they are on Yale property? If they are not required to keep their student ID on them when on Yale property, should the police be allowed to demand that students show an ID when they ask?

Being at school is not the same as driving on public roads.

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Old 28th February 2021, 04:51 PM   #937
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I don't recall any compelling evidence in that direction.

Siyonbola certainly was not "tormenting" Braach by sleeping on the common room couch when Braach entered the room and began harassing her, and then called the police despite being apparently well aware that she was a building resident.
This is classic a Karen move. If they had a prior relationship then Karen knew Siyonbola lived in that dorm. As Karens do, they complain you aren't following a rule and if you tell them to stick it, or even if you simply refuse to leave, then we've seen it all before, Karens huff and puff and call the cops.

And because they know how stupid calling the cops is, they exaggerate the complaint. Someone is in the dorm who doesn't belong there? A black man is threatening me? What did that one lady say who then hid (very poorly) behind a short brick wall when the black person turned on their phone camera?
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Old 28th February 2021, 05:38 PM   #938
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You guys can't be serious. A person, any person has a Constitutional right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. A police officer has to have a reasonable motive to question you and the moment the motive becomes unreasonable, he needs to leave you alone.

If the reason is questioning someone's legitimate purpose to a home or dorm room and that person produces a key to that dorm, they present no other reasonable suspicion for inquiry. No more than any other student.

One of my favorite YouTube channels is called "Audit the audit". It shows proper and not so proper police interactions. It includes both cops and citizens who know the law and plenty of both who don't.
Hilarious that after the January 6th Insurrection we still have conservatives tsk-tsking people for not using the proper protocol in their interactions with police. I suppose Siyonbola should have just beat the cops with a flag pole after they asked for her ID.
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Old 28th February 2021, 05:59 PM   #939
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Hilarious that after the January 6th Insurrection we still have conservatives tsk-tsking people for not using the proper protocol in their interactions with police. I suppose Siyonbola should have just beat the cops with a flag pole after they asked for her ID.
And it's amazing how so many say their rights are infringed by game wardens and park rangers or tax men.
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Old 28th February 2021, 08:37 PM   #940
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
How do you figure? The cops arrived, asked both for ID, separated and questioned them, then after getting the story they berated Braach for calling. They didn't even know Siyonbola was black till they arrived. Nor did Braach, evidently. How the hell was favoritism shown?
Something wrong with that statement, as the call to the cops was made after Braasch had confronted Siyonbola, in light good enough to take phone pictures by, and who according to some reports she had dealt with before. Whether or not you decide the call was racially motivated, there's no way Braasch did not know what color Siyonbola is. Also, as SG points out (not, I think, for the first time in this tired old thread) you can't have this story both ways. If Siyonbola had, in fact, dealt with Braasch before, then Braasch could hardly have been telling the truth when she reported a stranger to the cops.

And yes, they separated and questioned both, and asked for ID, but they did not, as far as we know, accuse Braasch of stealing the key to her room, and do not seem to have questioned her ID. It's said they questioned Siyonbola's ID because of a spelling error, but do you really believe the error in spelling that unusual African name cast actual ambiguity on her identity?

Yes, I think this whole affair was a mess that should never have gotten so far out of hand, and that, in some ways at least, Braasch paid a higher price for it than is appropriate, but ultimately I think her excuses are equivalent to "I didn't know it was loaded."
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Old 28th February 2021, 08:43 PM   #941
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
How is that relevant? The issue was after they arrived, not that they responded to the call in the first place.

Campus cops need sensitivity training. You get there, a woman has her study materials and is in the common room. So what Braach had her ID on her. You don't bring your purse down to study in the common room. It's like your living room. Do you bring your ID to the living room if it isn't in your pocket?

There was no reason for the cops to insist Siyonbola show them her ID in addition to proving she was in her own dorm.
We did all this earlier. Keys don't prove who you are. Cops care about who you actually are, not what you have a key to.

Kids occasionally loan their dorm keys to friends or whoever to meet up at their dorm, when one is at class or in the library or whatever. Mine did. It's fairly common. Having a car key doesn't mean you own the car. Having a house key doesn't mean you are the property owner. At the very best, it means you have permission from the occupant to be there.

But police being called simply do not care who gave who permission; they want to know who exactly the actors are, and if they are in good standing to be where they are at that time. Siyonbola and Braach were required to show exactly the same valid Yale ID. When police verified them, they dressed down Braach for calling this in. The cops have clean hands.
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Old 28th February 2021, 08:54 PM   #942
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Something wrong with that statement, as the call to the cops was made after Braasch had confronted Siyonbola, in light good enough to take phone pictures by, and who according to some reports she had dealt with before. Whether or not you decide the call was racially motivated, there's no way Braasch did not know what color Siyonbola is. Also, as SG points out (not, I think, for the first time in this tired old thread) you can't have this story both ways. If Siyonbola had, in fact, dealt with Braasch before, then Braasch could hardly have been telling the truth when she reported a stranger to the cops.
I may have gotten the time wrong on that. I recall that Braach called it in before going out to directly confront Siyonbola, when the video taking took place?

Quote:
And yes, they separated and questioned both, and asked for ID, but they did not, as far as we know, accuse Braasch of stealing the key to her room, and do not seem to have questioned her ID. It's said they questioned Siyonbola's ID because of a spelling error, but do you really believe the error in spelling that unusual African name cast actual ambiguity on her identity?
They took literally a couple extra minutes to clear up a spelling thing, yes. And yes, I think these cops (some of whom are black), and any cops for that matter, are pretty particular about exact matches, yes.

Quote:
Yes, I think this whole affair was a mess that should never have gotten so far out of hand, and that, in some ways at least, Braasch paid a higher price for it than is appropriate, but ultimately I think her excuses are equivalent to "I didn't know it was loaded."
I think a lot depends on how we take the reports that Braach believed that Siyonbola was one of the people who had been tormenting her. If we give Braach the benefit of the doubt (and it is known that Braach had been reporting harassment), do you think this was a 'didn't know it was loaded' thing?
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Old 28th February 2021, 10:17 PM   #943
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I may have gotten the time wrong on that. I recall that Braach called it in before going out to directly confront Siyonbola, when the video taking took place?



They took literally a couple extra minutes to clear up a spelling thing, yes. And yes, I think these cops (some of whom are black), and any cops for that matter, are pretty particular about exact matches, yes.



I think a lot depends on how we take the reports that Braach believed that Siyonbola was one of the people who had been tormenting her. If we give Braach the benefit of the doubt (and it is known that Braach had been reporting harassment), do you think this was a 'didn't know it was loaded' thing?
I think that is giving Braasch the benefit of the doubt in a sense, that she did not think her action would cause that much of a stir, but her history suggests she should have. If she did believe Siyonbola was one of the people tormenting her, then she knew her, whenever she called the cops. You can't say she knew her and did not know her at the same time.

As for the ID, you may be right, but the cops were already out of line insisting on the ID, I think, given that she had, apparently, a pile of work in the lounge, which suggested she was not just some bum looking for a place to sleep, had unlocked her room (presumably taking her stuff in with her), and handed them her ID. I'm guessing here, of course, but I'm willing to bet the spelling error was a minor one, and one that left no reasonable doubt that the holder of it was the person in question. I mean, we're talking about an error spelling "Siyonbola," not Siyonbola handing over an ID that says Jones. If they had not managed to contact the office would they have kept her in the hall for the night? Sorry, miss, but your ID says Syanbola, not Syonbola, so we have to be sure you're not some random homeless thief who just needs an illegal place to do her graduate homework.

Again I think you can't have this both ways. If it's true that Braasch was known to have made calls before, and if the cops did chew her out for the nuisance call, then I think they were at best needlessly officious in their failure to accept Siyonbola's story, their unwillingness to accept her possession of a key to her room, and their insistence that her name be spelled right. The cops seem to have decided to have it both ways, castigating Braasch for wrongly reporting Siyonbola as an intruder, and then treating her as an intruder anyway.

Again, I think it's too bad that this small incident became so large, and very much too bad that other parties seem to have made Braasch a target of hatred and recrimination out of proportion, and also too bad that she has taken some of the heat for the bad behavior of the cops, but she does bear responsibility for setting it all off. And though one can never be sure, I suspect that, whether consciously or not, she did so in part because she enjoys the vague but real privilege of having her word accepted more readily than that of a minority opponent.
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Old 28th February 2021, 10:46 PM   #944
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
We did all this earlier. Keys don't prove who you are. Cops care about who you actually are, not what you have a key to.

Kids occasionally loan their dorm keys to friends or whoever to meet up at their dorm, when one is at class or in the library or whatever. Mine did. It's fairly common. Having a car key doesn't mean you own the car. Having a house key doesn't mean you are the property owner. At the very best, it means you have permission from the occupant to be there.

But police being called simply do not care who gave who permission; they want to know who exactly the actors are, and if they are in good standing to be where they are at that time. Siyonbola and Braach were required to show exactly the same valid Yale ID. When police verified them, they dressed down Braach for calling this in. The cops have clean hands.
Do the campus cops make rounds of dorm rooms checking IDs to make sure no one has a borrowed key?

Was there a rash of squatters in the dorms so campus cops are on the lookout?

Upon what basis did the campus cops have reason to believe she had a borrowed key?

Just because you can imagine some bizarre circumstances where the key to the room was not sufficient doesn't mean the cops had probable cause to ask for ID in addition to proof the woman lived in that dorm.
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Old 28th February 2021, 10:48 PM   #945
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I think that is giving Braasch the benefit of the doubt in a sense, that she did not think her action would cause that much of a stir, but her history suggests she should have. If she did believe Siyonbola was one of the people tormenting her, then she knew her, whenever she called the cops. You can't say she knew her and did not know her at the same time.
I'm not saying so. I recall that she saw the covered up sleeping Siyonbola and called the cavalry, and only then confronted her, knowing that backup was en route, and only then recognized her.

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As for the ID, you may be right, but the cops were already out of line insisting on the ID, I think, given that she had, apparently, a pile of work in the lounge, which suggested she was not just some bum looking for a place to sleep, had unlocked her room (presumably taking her stuff in with her), and handed them her ID. I'm guessing here, of course, but I'm willing to bet the spelling error was a minor one, and one that left no reasonable doubt that the holder of it was the person in question. I mean, we're talking about an error spelling "Siyonbola," not Siyonbola handing over an ID that says Jones. If they had not managed to contact the office would they have kept her in the hall for the night? Sorry, miss, but your ID says Syanbola, not Syonbola, so we have to be sure you're not some random homeless thief who just needs an illegal place to do her graduate homework.

Again I think you can't have this both ways. If it's true that Braasch was known to have made calls before, and if the cops did chew her out for the nuisance call, then I think they were at best needlessly officious in their failure to accept Siyonbola's story, their unwillingness to accept her possession of a key to her room, and their insistence that her name be spelled right. The cops seem to have decided to have it both ways, castigating Braasch for wrongly reporting Siyonbola as an intruder, and then treating her as an intruder anyway.
I don't think they were treating her as anything other than a person who was flat refusing to show her valid ID, which would sound to any LEO like someone who in fact didn't possess one. That would be, by definition, a problem. Recall the video where Siyonbola argues at length that she does not need to show ID for any reason. She is flat-out wrong, here. When a cop gets a report, protocol is to simply check IDs. It's the cops job, fer chrissake. If he is just going to take everyone's word for everything, what good is a cop at all?

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Again, I think it's too bad that this small incident became so large, and very much too bad that other parties seem to have made Braasch a target of hatred and recrimination out of proportion, and also too bad that she has taken some of the heat for the bad behavior of the cops, but she does bear responsibility for setting it all off. And though one can never be sure, I suspect that, whether consciously or not, she did so in part because she enjoys the vague but real privilege of having her word accepted more readily than that of a minority opponent.
I'm not sure that a minority opponent was the operative factor here. I get the impression that Braasch expected any opponent to defer to her goofy sense of demanding to live in seclusion. That was, after all, the reason she requested that isolated dorm. She wanted a private personal tower. So agreed, she bears responsibility for setting off a chain of events that she had no reason to initiate. I just think the motivation was her territorial entitlement, not a racial one.
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Old 28th February 2021, 10:57 PM   #946
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Do the campus cops make rounds of dorm rooms checking IDs to make sure no one has a borrowed key?

Was there a rash of squatters in the dorms so campus cops are on the lookout?

Upon what basis did the campus cops have reason to believe she had a borrowed key?

Just because you can imagine some bizarre circumstances where the key to the room was not sufficient doesn't mean the cops had probable cause to ask for ID in addition to proof the woman lived in that dorm.
Cops were called. Their protocol is to check IDs of the relevant actors. This is normal, on or off a campus.

Siyonbola adamantly refused to show an ID. She blatantly refused for quite a while, all on video. It was actually pretty cool of the cops to not eject her from the campus on those grounds alone. For all the flak the cops are getting, they could have been much worse, and fully within their rights, to give her the bum's rush.

I believe I said much earlier upthread, that I am a building contractor and frequently have police called on me on suspicion of breaking into houses when I show up at odd hours and a neighbor doesn't recognize me. Police come, and guess what? I have to show ID. Not the ******* house key. My actual identification. And I don't argue with them at length about how I don't have to show them anything and that they are racist. Mostly because I really hate handcuffs and that stick they carry.
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Old 28th February 2021, 11:37 PM   #947
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Would it blow your mind, to hear that at my smalltown college in the early 2000s, I swiped my ID to enter my dorm room?
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Old 1st March 2021, 05:14 AM   #948
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stern lecture

Among other things the exercise bike in her room had been moved; therefore, it is likely that at least one person was harassing Ms. Braasch. I am not aware of any evidence that Ms. Siyonbola was one of the people. If Ms. Siyonbola were, then there were other channels. If I had been one of the cops called during the May incident, I would have gently imparted these notions into my conversation with Ms. Braasch, as opposed to giving her a "stern lecture" mentioned in the article by Cathy Young.

I fault Ms. Braasch for making the call, which I believe she did after she and Ms. Siyonbola recognized each other. I fault Ms. Siyonbola for calling for institutionalization of Ms. Braasch and implying that she was psycho. I fault Yale for a number of things, including repeatedly running up Ms. Braasch's legal bills, possibly because they were in CYA mode.
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Old 1st March 2021, 07:35 AM   #949
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Does Yale require that dorm residents carry their student ID with them when they are on Yale property?
Of course they do. What would be the point of having an ID card otherwise?

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All students, faculty and staff of the University are required to obtain an ID card. The ID Card identifies you as a current member of the Yale community and should be carried with you at all times while you are on campus.
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Old 1st March 2021, 08:10 AM   #950
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Would it blow your mind, to hear that at my smalltown college in the early 2000s, I swiped my ID to enter my dorm room?
At that time I had to swipe my ID to get into computer lab buildings after hours or on weekends at a mid-sized university. Now I think that applies to all buildings on that campus.
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Old 1st March 2021, 08:19 AM   #951
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Does Yale require that dorm residents carry their student ID with them when they are on Yale property?
Of course they do. What would be the point of having an ID card otherwise?

Quote:
All students, faculty and staff of the University are required to obtain an ID card. The ID Card identifies you as a current member of the Yale community and should be carried with you at all times while you are on campus.

There's "on campus" and there's "on campus".

Sure, if a student is walking around the campus grounds it is perfectly reasonable to expect them to be carrying their campus ID.

But do you really think that students relaxing or studying in the common rooms of their own dorms are expected to have their IDs on their person? Do you think that all the students adhere to that?

If campus cops were to go into the common area of a women's dorm on any random evening, how many of the girls in PJs do you think would have their IDs on their persons? How many would have them locked in their rooms?

Maybe they should have regular raids. Imagine all the violations they could chalk up.
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Old 1st March 2021, 08:53 AM   #952
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Of course they do. What would be the point of having an ID card otherwise?
Thank you for the link. "Should" does not mean "shall". Unless there is another requirement for carrying ID while on campus, it seems to be optional.
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Old 1st March 2021, 10:49 AM   #953
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
We did all this earlier. Keys don't prove who you are. Cops care about who you actually are, not what you have a key to.

Kids occasionally loan their dorm keys to friends or whoever to meet up at their dorm, when one is at class or in the library or whatever. Mine did. It's fairly common. Having a car key doesn't mean you own the car. Having a house key doesn't mean you are the property owner. At the very best, it means you have permission from the occupant to be there.

But police being called simply do not care who gave who permission; they want to know who exactly the actors are, and if they are in good standing to be where they are at that time. Siyonbola and Braach were required to show exactly the same valid Yale ID. When police verified them, they dressed down Braach for calling this in. The cops have clean hands.
They don't have to prove who they are unless there is reasonable suspicion of a crime. Again, this amounts to an unreasonable search. This amounts to a fishing expedition.
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Old 1st March 2021, 10:54 AM   #954
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Cops were called. Their protocol is to check IDs of the relevant actors. This is normal, on or off a campus.

Siyonbola adamantly refused to show an ID. She blatantly refused for quite a while, all on video. It was actually pretty cool of the cops to not eject her from the campus on those grounds alone. For all the flak the cops are getting, they could have been much worse, and fully within their rights, to give her the bum's rush.

I believe I said much earlier upthread, that I am a building contractor and frequently have police called on me on suspicion of breaking into houses when I show up at odd hours and a neighbor doesn't recognize me. Police come, and guess what? I have to show ID. Not the ******* house key. My actual identification. And I don't argue with them at length about how I don't have to show them anything and that they are racist. Mostly because I really hate handcuffs and that stick they carry.
It's the hard plastic seats in the rear of the cruisers causing the handcuffs to close too tightly that make it a real pain.
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Old 1st March 2021, 10:55 AM   #955
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Of course they do. What would be the point of having an ID card otherwise?
You're kidding, right? Did you go to college? The ID allows you to check out books, purchase discounted tickets to events at the University and other associated items reserved for students.
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Old 1st March 2021, 10:57 AM   #956
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You're kidding, right? Did you go to college? The ID allows you to check out books, purchase discounted tickets to events at the University and other associated items reserved for students.
When my youngest was at Temple, his ID was also critical if he wished to enter most buildings- especially his dorm.
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Old 1st March 2021, 11:01 AM   #957
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
They don't have to prove who they are unless there is reasonable suspicion of a crime. Again, this amounts to an unreasonable search. This amounts to a fishing expedition.
I think the cops were reasonable enough. They were called about someone who was not supposed to be there. How do you determine that? Check ID, done and done. Which they did, and immediately berated Braasch for calling it in.

As I said earlier, I have often had police called on me under suspicion of B&E. I could argue that a contractor driving a lettered up utility truck with keys to the property is not probable cause, but why fight cops over checking on a safety thing? I show my ID because I get how it could look in a certain way, and want to reassure all involved. Its no civil rights violation.

That's how I look at all these stories. Put yourself in the same situation. Is it reasonable? I think it is. They checked both parties, including Braasch, for appropriate ID. Siyonbola was in no way singled out.

Should Braasch be launching a civil rights violation suit for being asked to show the very same ID? Serious question.
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Old 1st March 2021, 11:04 AM   #958
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
It's the hard plastic seats in the rear of the cruisers causing the handcuffs to close too tightly that make it a real pain.
Right? You'd think a little plush upholstery on those back seats could be worked into the budget.
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Old 1st March 2021, 11:07 AM   #959
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
When my youngest was at Temple, his ID was also critical if he wished to enter most buildings- especially his dorm.
Sure. Makes sense. But I doubt it was required for walking around in the dorm.
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Old 1st March 2021, 11:11 AM   #960
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Sure. Makes sense. But I doubt it was required for walking around in the dorm.
I seem to recall it actually was if he wished to take the elevator, but it has been a dozen years.
Point is, he knew better than to walk around without it, it had more use than purchasing discounted food.
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