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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:08 PM   #1
Luntoc
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I have a questions for truthers

If President Bush and his administration orchestrated the 9/11 attacks to go to war in Iraq, why didn't he blame Iraq from the very beginning? Why did he wait a year before making his case that Saddam was a threat to the American people? And if he can plan 9/11 and able to convince literally tens of thousands of people to conspire with him to carry out the biggest attack in american history, surely he could've gotten Richard Clarke to help him and fabricate evidence that it was Saddam Hussein who carried out the attacks not OBL? And why wasn't he able to convince, say I don't know, 20 people to "find the WMD's" in order to justify his reasons to war in Iraq? Or are we all supposed to believe that Bush did all that planning just so he can look like a complete moron?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:13 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Luntoc View Post
If President Bush and his administration orchestrated the 9/11 attacks to go to war in Iraq, why didn't he blame Iraq from the very beginning? Why did he wait a year before making his case that Saddam was a threat to the American people? And if he can plan 9/11 and able to convince literally tens of thousands of people to conspire with him to carry out the biggest attack in american history, surely he could've gotten Richard Clarke to help him and fabricate evidence that it was Saddam Hussein who carried out the attacks not OBL? And why wasn't he able to convince, say I don't know, 20 people to "find the WMD's" in order to justify his reasons to war in Iraq? Or are we all supposed to believe that Bush did all that planning just so he can look like a complete moron?
Not a truther but I suspect the reason was that god took his time telling Bush to invade Iraq.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:23 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Luntoc View Post
If President Bush and his administration orchestrated the 9/11 attacks to go to war in Iraq, why didn't he blame Iraq from the very beginning? Why did he wait a year before making his case that Saddam was a threat to the American people? And if he can plan 9/11 and able to convince literally tens of thousands of people to conspire with him to carry out the biggest attack in american history, surely he could've gotten Richard Clarke to help him and fabricate evidence that it was Saddam Hussein who carried out the attacks not OBL? And why wasn't he able to convince, say I don't know, 20 people to "find the WMD's" in order to justify his reasons to war in Iraq? Or are we all supposed to believe that Bush did all that planning just so he can look like a complete moron?
Because Afghanistan was the immediate target. There were already thousands of American and British troops in the neighbouring countries of Afgahistan ready and waiting for the invasion. Just a few weeks before 9/11 a message had been given to the Taliban regarding a natural gas pipeline the Americans wanted to lay from the Caspian to the Indian Oceans. 'Accept our offer of a carpet pf gold or we will bury you under a carpet of bombs'.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:27 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Because Afghanistan was the immediate target. There were already thousands of American and British troops in the neighbouring countries of Afgahistan ready and waiting for the invasion. Just a few weeks before 9/11 a message had been given to the Taliban regarding a natural gas pipeline the Americans wanted to lay from the Caspian to the Indian Oceans. 'Accept our offer of a carpet pf gold or we will bury you under a carpet of bombs'.
I'm sure you have proof for this. No, who am I kidding, you have nothing.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:32 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
I'm sure you have proof for this. No, who am I kidding, you have nothing.
SupposeI could come up with convincing evidence ? Would you then agree that we need an immediate independent enquiry into 9/11 ?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:39 PM   #6
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And why didn't they make up 19 hijackers from Afghanistan and Iraq, instead of making them up to be mostly Saudi's?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:40 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
SupposeI could come up with convincing evidence ? Would you then agree that we need an immediate independent enquiry into 9/11 ?
Sure. Too bad you have no evidence.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:41 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by sylvan8798 View Post
And why didn't they make up 19 hijackers from Afghanistan and Iraq, instead of making them up to be mostly Saudi's?
One thing at a time Sylvan.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
Sure. Too bad you have no evidence.
Here's some background,

"The Washington Post on May 25, 2001, reported that the U.S. government "pledged another $43 million in assistance to Afghanistan, [the Taliban government] raising total aid this year to $124 million and making the United States the largest humanitarian donor to the country.'' This was less than four months before the September 11 attacks."
"In an article in the British Daily Mirror, John Pilger stated: "When the Taliban took Kabul in 1996, Washington said nothing. Why? Because Taliban leaders were soon on their way to Houston, Texas, to be entertained by executives of the oil company, Unocal."
"With secret U.S. government approval, the company offered them a generous cut of the profits of the oil and gas pumped through a pipeline that the Americans wanted to build from the Soviet Central Asia through Afghanistan. .."
"Although the deal fell through, it remains an urgent priority of the administration of George W. Bush, which is steeped in the oil industry. Bush's concealed agenda is to exploit the oil and gas reserves in the Caspian basin ... Only if the pipeline runs through Afghanistan can the Americans hope to control it.''
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Here's some background,

"The Washington Post on May 25, 2001, reported that the U.S. government "pledged another $43 million in assistance to Afghanistan, [the Taliban government] raising total aid this year to $124 million and making the United States the largest humanitarian donor to the country.'' This was less than four months before the September 11 attacks."
"In an article in the British Daily Mirror, John Pilger stated: "When the Taliban took Kabul in 1996, Washington said nothing. Why? Because Taliban leaders were soon on their way to Houston, Texas, to be entertained by executives of the oil company, Unocal."
"With secret U.S. government approval, the company offered them a generous cut of the profits of the oil and gas pumped through a pipeline that the Americans wanted to build from the Soviet Central Asia through Afghanistan. .."
"Although the deal fell through, it remains an urgent priority of the administration of George W. Bush, which is steeped in the oil industry. Bush's concealed agenda is to exploit the oil and gas reserves in the Caspian basin ... Only if the pipeline runs through Afghanistan can the Americans hope to control it.''
PS. Guess who was the chief executive of Unocal ? You got it in one. Mohomad Karzai, current president of Afghanisten. One hand washes the other. lol
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:47 PM   #11
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So, you got nothing, why didn't you just say so.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:51 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dtugg View Post
So, you got nothing, why didn't you just say so.
I guess you won't be wanting a new 9/11 enquiry then ? lol
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Old 23rd August 2009, 01:58 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
"With secret U.S. government approval'
If the approval was secret, why does the TM know it? Do they work for the government?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 02:04 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Here's some background,

"The Washington Post on May 25, 2001, reported that the U.S. government "pledged another $43 million in assistance to Afghanistan, [the Taliban government] raising total aid this year to $124 million and making the United States the largest humanitarian donor to the country.'' This was less than four months before the September 11 attacks."
"In an article in the British Daily Mirror, John Pilger stated: "When the Taliban took Kabul in 1996, Washington said nothing. Why? Because Taliban leaders were soon on their way to Houston, Texas, to be entertained by executives of the oil company, Unocal."
"With secret U.S. government approval, the company offered them a generous cut of the profits of the oil and gas pumped through a pipeline that the Americans wanted to build from the Soviet Central Asia through Afghanistan. .."
"Although the deal fell through, it remains an urgent priority of the administration of George W. Bush, which is steeped in the oil industry. Bush's concealed agenda is to exploit the oil and gas reserves in the Caspian basin ... Only if the pipeline runs through Afghanistan can the Americans hope to control it.''
and the source for all of this is???????????????
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Old 23rd August 2009, 02:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
and the source for all of this is???????????????
Look it up Parky, look it up. I think the OP is now adequately answered.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 02:22 PM   #16
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it is because of the damn jooooooz.

GWB had to make the worst rube goldberg (joooooz) conspiracy ever.

so instead of doing something simple for a conspiracy like having crop dusters filled with cyanide or ricin flying over the superbowl and having them crash with dead iraqi's or afghani's (killing many more in a much more horrific way, to anger the american people), they come up with remote controlled (or fake holographic planes) and nanothermite (death rays from outer space) with a missle (or a plane) to hit the pentagon in just the right place to minimize causalities (except for those 2500 killed at the towers) becaue they care about the military (and oil folks), and then they shot down (landed) flight 93 to make the moral outrage even more... they also ran in 25000 ninjas into a burning building and rigged it to explode.

They would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for them dancing jews (jooooooooz) who admitted they wanted to "document the event."

but scooby and the gang have figured out it was old man cheney and his idiot son GWB.

See rube goldberg (joooooooz) machine of conspiracies...

choose your own form of woo and twoof and fill in the () with whatever floats your boat.

ETA:
as for that oil pipeline.. when did we finish building it, and how much crude is flowing down it to the US right now? what? I can't hear you

How about the US being in iraq to KEEP the oil... how is that working out?

You really should try the haldol, or lithium Billy boy...

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Old 23rd August 2009, 02:31 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Here's some background,

"The Washington Post on May 25, 2001, reported that the U.S. government "pledged another $43 million in assistance to Afghanistan, [the Taliban government] raising total aid this year to $124 million and making the United States the largest humanitarian donor to the country.'' This was less than four months before the September 11 attacks."
"In an article in the British Daily Mirror, John Pilger stated: "When the Taliban took Kabul in 1996, Washington said nothing. Why? Because Taliban leaders were soon on their way to Houston, Texas, to be entertained by executives of the oil company, Unocal."
"With secret U.S. government approval, the company offered them a generous cut of the profits of the oil and gas pumped through a pipeline that the Americans wanted to build from the Soviet Central Asia through Afghanistan. .."
"Although the deal fell through, it remains an urgent priority of the administration of George W. Bush, which is steeped in the oil industry. Bush's concealed agenda is to exploit the oil and gas reserves in the Caspian basin ... Only if the pipeline runs through Afghanistan can the Americans hope to control it.''
But wait a minute. The media is in witht he government. You can't trust them. They are disinfo.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 02:39 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by TruthersLie View Post
it is because of the damn jooooooz.

GWB had to make the worst rube goldberg (joooooz) conspiracy ever.

so instead of doing something simple for a conspiracy like having crop dusters filled with cyanide or ricin flying over the superbowl and having them crash with dead iraqi's or afghani's (killing many more in a much more horrific way, to anger the american people), they come up with remote controlled (or fake holographic planes) and nanothermite (death rays from outer space) with a missle (or a plane) to hit the pentagon in just the right place to minimize causalities (except for those 2500 killed at the towers) becaue they care about the military (and oil folks), and then they shot down (landed) flight 93 to make the moral outrage even more... they also ran in 25000 ninjas into a burning building and rigged it to explode.

They would have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for them dancing jews (jooooooooz) who admitted they wanted to "document the event."

but scooby and the gang have figured out it was old man cheney and his idiot son GWB.

See rube goldberg (joooooooz) machine of conspiracies...

choose your own form of woo and twoof and fill in the () with whatever floats your boat.

ETA:
as for that oil pipeline.. when did we finish building it, and how much crude is flowing down it to the US right now? what? I can't hear you

How about the US being in iraq to KEEP the oil... how is that working out?

You really should try the haldol, or lithium Billy boy...
Addendum:

There was a persistent story that ENRON had built a power station at Bhopal, India which was completed before 9/11. The Indian locals had no clue how the station was supposed to be to be powered until after the pipeline had been laid across Afghanistan and plugged into it many many months later . ..And they all lived happily ever after.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 02:46 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Look it up Parky, look it up. I think the OP is now adequately answered.
YOU want me to look up YOUR quote?

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Old 23rd August 2009, 02:53 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Addendum:

There was a persistent story that ENRON had built a power station at Bhopal, India which was completed before 9/11. The Indian locals had no clue how the station was supposed to be to be powered until after the pipeline had been laid across Afghanistan and plugged into the station. And they all lived happily ever after.
There's a story that Elvis is alive, but it doesn't make it true. Do you have any evidence of this power station?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 02:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
YOU want me to look up YOUR quote?

Well you can choose to try and disprove it or not. It's your choice. The burden of proof is reversed- remember ?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Well you can choose to try and disprove it or not. It's your choice. The burden of proof is reversed- remember ?
if you want to be taken serious in JREF, and in the world of critical thinking in general, you need to back up your assertions with sources.

if is not the job of YOUR audience to back up YOUR accusations.

one would think you would have understood this by now.

I am curious as to why you feel that you should not have to provide citations for your quotes. Are we supposed to simply take your word for it?

Sorry buddy, not on JREF.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
There's a story that Elvis is alive, but it doesn't make it true. Do you have any evidence of this power station?
Would you believe it's a secret government installation that only the government run TM knows about?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:08 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Addendum:

There was a persistent story that ENRON had built a power station at Bhopal, India which was completed before 9/11. The Indian locals had no clue how the station was supposed to be to be powered until after the pipeline had been laid across Afghanistan and plugged into it many many months later . ..And they all lived happily ever after.
oh, btw, the Unical natural gas pipeline across Afghanistan was NEVER built.

and it appears that the American invasion of Afghanistan effectively KILLED the idea for several years, rather then move it foreward:

"In January 1998, the Taliban, selecting CentGas over Argentinian competitor Bridas Corporation, signed an agreement that allowed the proposed project to proceed. In June 1998, Russian Gazprom relinquishes its 10% stake in the project. Unocal withdrew from the consortium on 8 December 1998.

The new deal on the pipeline was signed on 27 December 2002 by the leaders of Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan.[1] In 2005, the Asian Development Bank submitted the final version of a feasibility study designed by British company Penspen. Since the United States military overthrew the Taliban government, the project has essentially stalled; construction of the Turkmen part was supposed to start in 2006, but the overall feasibility is questionable since the southern part of the Afghan section runs through territory which continues to be under de facto Taliban control."

do your research, Bill Smith. It will win you more fans..and respect.

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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:15 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
if you want to be taken serious in JREF, and in the world of critical thinking in general, you need to back up your assertions with sources.

if is not the job of YOUR audience to back up YOUR accusations.

one would think you would have understood this by now.

I am curious as to why you feel that you should not have to provide citations for your quotes. Are we supposed to simply take your word for it?

Sorry buddy, not on JREF.
I am happy to make my statements and back them up at my own discretion. You are free to lay it on thck and heavy at which point I will burst your balloon- or not as I find useful. You are also free to ignore me. There is a special button for that I believe. Or you can use the third option of actually looking it up yourself with the clues I will provide in my posts.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:17 PM   #26
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Well, I have heard of Enron making some really bad investments in power plants in India. That would give the pipeline story some factual basis.

I do not expect Bill to come up with any documentation for it through.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:17 PM   #27
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Even if we were to accept your lack of a source, or your idiotic expectation of others to find your sources. You still have proven nothing.

This:

Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Here's some background,

"The Washington Post on May 25, 2001, reported that the U.S. government "pledged another $43 million in assistance to Afghanistan, [the Taliban government] raising total aid this year to $124 million and making the United States the largest humanitarian donor to the country.'' This was less than four months before the September 11 attacks."
"In an article in the British Daily Mirror, John Pilger stated: "When the Taliban took Kabul in 1996, Washington said nothing. Why? Because Taliban leaders were soon on their way to Houston, Texas, to be entertained by executives of the oil company, Unocal."
"With secret U.S. government approval, the company offered them a generous cut of the profits of the oil and gas pumped through a pipeline that the Americans wanted to build from the Soviet Central Asia through Afghanistan. .."
"Although the deal fell through, it remains an urgent priority of the administration of George W. Bush, which is steeped in the oil industry. Bush's concealed agenda is to exploit the oil and gas reserves in the Caspian basin ... Only if the pipeline runs through Afghanistan can the Americans hope to control it.''
Does not prove your claim that 9/11 was an inside done because of this:

Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Because Afghanistan was the immediate target. There were already thousands of American and British troops in the neighbouring countries of Afgahistan ready and waiting for the invasion. Just a few weeks before 9/11 a message had been given to the Taliban regarding a natural gas pipeline the Americans wanted to lay from the Caspian to the Indian Oceans. 'Accept our offer of a carpet pf gold or we will bury you under a carpet of bombs'.
Nice try, but it's not even close to proving what your claiming.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:18 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
Or you can use the third option of actually looking it up yourself with the clues I will provide in my posts.
you want others to look up whole paragraphs of text..to corroborate YOUR statements?



it doesn't matter now, since your bold assertion has already been debunked. I can only assume that your source is a conspiracy theory, paranoid Alex Jones or Jeff Rense related website.

Mind you, if I quoted from Prisonplanet or Rense.com, I too would not want to provide my sources.

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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:21 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Platypus View Post
Does not prove your claim that 9/11 was an inside done because of this:
If a trans-Afghanistan pipeline was the prime motivation for 9-11, they have failed miserably.

The American invasion of Afghanistan both delayed the building of the Central Asian gas pipeline, and Unical ended their involvement with the project in 1998.

Nevermind the fact that this pipeline has yet to be built!!

This is why I LOVE 9-11 Deniers.......cause they make it sooooooo easy!!!

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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:27 PM   #30
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And of course bill smith ignores because I prove the hypocrite he is.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:31 PM   #31
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline

Read up, Bill Smith. It proves all your 9-11 Denier theories to be what they truly are.

Horse ****.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:35 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
oh, btw, the Unical natural gas pipeline across Afghanistan was NEVER built.

and it appears that the American invasion of Afghanistan effectively KILLED the idea for several years, rather then move it foreward:

"In January 1998, the Taliban, selecting CentGas over Argentinian competitor Bridas Corporation, signed an agreement that allowed the proposed project to proceed. In June 1998, Russian Gazprom relinquishes its 10% stake in the project. Unocal withdrew from the consortium on 8 December 1998.

The new deal on the pipeline was signed on 27 December 2002 by the leaders of Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan.[1] In 2005, the Asian Development Bank submitted the final version of a feasibility study designed by British company Penspen. Since the United States military overthrew the Taliban government, the project has essentially stalled; construction of the Turkmen part was supposed to start in 2006, but the overall feasibility is questionable since the southern part of the Afghan section runs through territory which continues to be under de facto Taliban control."

do your research, Bill Smith. It will win you more fans..and respect.
I thoroughly reccommend you read the full article.

'' Four months after the carpet of bombs, President Karzai and President Musharraf of Pakistan signed an agreement for a new pipeline. The Bridas contract was moot. The way was open for Unocal.''

http://www.alternet.org/story/63632/?page=1
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:46 PM   #33
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At the very least you people can now see that Afghanistan was well and truly on the American menu well before 9/11. Think about it.
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Last edited by bill smith; 23rd August 2009 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:47 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I thoroughly reccommend you read the full article.

'' Four months after the carpet of bombs, President Karzai and President Musharraf of Pakistan signed an agreement for a new pipeline. The Bridas contract was moot. The way was open for Unocal.''

http://www.alternet.org/story/63632/?page=1
Fact: the pipeline remains to be built. The American invasion put it off by several years.

And by the way, I do not consider "Alternet" to be a respectable news source. Any website that has that many Viagra and Celalus ads can't be legit.

Last edited by Thunder; 23rd August 2009 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:55 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
And by the way, I do not consider "Alternet" to be a respectable news source. Any website that has that many Viagra and Celalus ads can't be legit.
Rather silly I think. It's like trying to market auto parts to people who don't own cars.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 03:58 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
I am happy to make my statements and back them up at my own discretion. You are free to lay it on thck and heavy at which point I will burst your balloon- or not as I find useful. You are also free to ignore me. There is a special button for that I believe. Or you can use the third option of actually looking it up yourself with the clues I will provide in my posts.
And this is why noone can or will take anything you or your cult ever says seriously. You pretty much admit that you are just playing little games and expect people to go on wild goose chases over what some guy (you) spews on the internet.

It's funny, 911 traitor cults always say they are out here trying to wake up the public, but when cornered on their "research", they always play the "i ain't gonna teach you" and "find it yourself" game...
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Old 23rd August 2009, 04:03 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by parky76 View Post
Fact: the pipeline remains to be built. The American invasion put it off by several years.

And by the way, I do not consider "Alternet" to be a respectable news source. Any website that has that many Viagra and Celalus ads can't be legit.
On the contray, Alternat is one of the most respected sites on the interet and has been for years.

I can se that you intend to become involved in inconseqential chit-chat that allows yyou to circle away from the main suhect. i am familaiar with this methodology of debunkers and will tune in again tomorrow.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 04:11 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
On the contray, Alternat is one of the most respected sites on the interet and has been for years.

I can se that you intend to become involved in inconseqential chit-chat that allows yyou to circle away from the main suhect. i am familaiar with this methodology of debunkers and will tune in again tomorrow.
"one of the most respected sites on the internet" according to who?

Talk about familiar methodology, like how cult nutjobs always post a blatantly over exaggerated lie, then throw some shot at "debunkers" like it's a diversion and run away thinking noone caught it...
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Always beware of those that overuse, capitalize and blanket themselves in them word "truth". I may not always know the truth, but i do know when i'm being lied too.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 04:22 PM   #39
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When i went on google and searched "most respected websites alternet", the first link in the list is a post from a dude that pretty much confirmed what i was expecting about bill's supposedly "most respected" website.

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Arch.../msg00087.html
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Last edited by The Platypus; 23rd August 2009 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 04:45 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by bill smith View Post
On the contray, Alternat is one of the most respected sites on the interet and has been for years.

I can se that you intend to become involved in inconseqential chit-chat that allows yyou to circle away from the main suhect. i am familaiar with this methodology of debunkers and will tune in again tomorrow.
#1. I have never heard of "Alternet" before. So they can't be that big.

#2. Are you having a stroke or something??
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