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Old 27th July 2009, 02:26 AM   #41
Baylor
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
If there were an website exposing the Iran/Contra crimes and it didn't get many visitors would that mean that the Iran/Contra conspiracy never happened?
Can you read the OP and STFU?
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Old 27th July 2009, 02:36 AM   #42
Scott Sommers
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So here's my situation.

Over the last week or so, I've watched all kinds of videos about 911. It's really clear to me what happened that day. But I still have this very particular questions left, so come to this forum to get it answered. Bill comes on and tells me I must have missed something and he can show me what it is. After all, he can show me something I've never seen before.

When I tell him I have no interest in what he has to say, he responds in a reasonable way and basically apologizes for bothering me. But what do you know, a couple of posts later, he's back telling me that his last video wasn't the one that would change my life, but he does have another one that will.

You don't think most people would be bothered by this? Maybe the people on special interest forums or the kind of people you talk with in your group don't take this personally. The implication is that I'm stupid. It's offensive. And now Bill tells me that he lied to me. He's open about this. He says he was a liar but now he'll leave me alone.

Maybe I'm naive and it was ridiculous to take him seriously in the first place. This is weird, and anyone outside of this forum world would find it that way.
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Old 27th July 2009, 02:38 AM   #43
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If there were a website exposing the Iran/Contra crimes and it didn't get many visitors would that mean that the Iran/Contra conspiracy never happened?


Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
You said you would go away. What kind of impression of Bill Smith as a person do you think this leaves? You are committed? You are determined and brave? Do you think you can show me that one piece of evidence, that one video, that one testimony, that will change my whole world view? Ya, you and the Jehovah's Witnesses. And I don't talk to them, either.

Please keep your original word to me.

Scott.in.taiwan, for someone who says they are new to the topic not particularly involved in 9-11 Conspiracy debates you appear to be admirably fluent in the abusive and manipulative debunker lingo.

You are very welcome to the cult but I suggest you work on your story a bit more if you don't want to appear like yet another old-hat propagandist posing as a naive newbie.


For example, compare:

Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
I live overseas and had never heard of a 9-11 Conspiracy theory until earlier this year
with

Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post

The complexity of the TM arguments has not developed. It appears to me they are still using the same arguments they used years ago. There's that school teacher fellow [How very unconvincingly chatty! -JJ] who made the video about WTC 7, but that's not really a significant step in complexity of thinking. The TM appears to be increasingly attractive repackaging of the same series of 'facts'. This is in contrast to the debunker community which has developed very complex critiques and responses to TM. This might be because the TM is wrong and they have run out of data, but hasn't never stopped theories of scientific racism, for example.
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Last edited by JihadJane; 27th July 2009 at 02:49 AM.
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Old 27th July 2009, 02:44 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
Bill comes on and tells me I must have missed something and he can show me what it is. After all, he can show me something I've never seen before.

When I tell him I have no interest in what he has to say, he responds in a reasonable way and basically apologizes for bothering me. But what do you know, a couple of posts later, he's back telling me that his last video wasn't the one that would change my life, but he does have another one that will.
Bill just likes flinging brown stuff about. If you try to educate him as to what the brown stuff is, he simply takes it as encouragement to fling some more. I only read his posts for amusement these days, and rarely respond; there's no point responding to someone who interprets any possible response as a request to fling some more brown stuff.

Dave
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Old 27th July 2009, 02:47 AM   #45
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The Status of 9-11 Conspiracy Theories

BUSTED

Last edited by Oliver; 27th July 2009 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 27th July 2009, 02:56 AM   #46
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I dreaded this, but here I go.

In case you missed it, there was just a presidential election. No one mentions this thing that you guys tell me is believed by engineers, lawyers, all kinds of professionals. It's a seething anger just ready to bust out and take over the streets. But not one of the candidates will talk about it. And there's no one running on a 911 Truth ticket. There are KKK rallies and White Nationalist groups marching in the streets. But 911 Truth? You couldn't miss the role of 911 in the election, but you could watch the whole thing and not know there's anything but planes hijacked by terrorists that crashed into military and political targets.

Maybe they're all in on it. Hell, maybe I'm in on it and don't even know. Maybe the body snatchers have taken control of everyone. I don't know; I'm not an expert on alien parasites. But I can say that virtually no voters seemed concerned about this. It did not come up as an issue.

This would not be possible if vast numbers of professionals and scientists had real serious questions about 911. And then Bill starts posting videos from 2007 about the one thing I do know about 911. There are no firefighters who think there was anything other than planes full of passengers and hijackers crashing in to military and political targets. Probably not even one, or we would know his name.

Last edited by Scott Sommers; 27th July 2009 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 27th July 2009, 03:10 AM   #47
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scott meet JihadJane, our other resident troll

Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
You are very welcome to the cult but I suggest you work on your story a bit more if you don't want to appear like yet another old-hat propagandist posing as a naive newbie.
I suggest you work on your trolling skills a bit more. Don't want another "the poll says nothing about those men being angry" embarrassment.
Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan
What am I supposed to say? The video is more than 2 years old
Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwann
The complexity of the TM arguments has not developed. It appears to me they are still using the same arguments they used years ago.

Last edited by Baylor; 27th July 2009 at 03:11 AM.
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Old 27th July 2009, 03:13 AM   #48
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I fully agree scott.in.taiwan ... many so-called Truthers are also very narrow-minded in that they NEVER think outside the box that is the USA.

There are engineers, scientists, physisists, FireFighters, etc, etc, etc, etc all over the world whom will have looked into and studied these events.

Some of them in countries "not-exactly-friendly" to the US ...

Some of them in countries where the US has zero influence, jurisdiction, authority or sovereignty over.

So WHY have these other relevent experts WORLDWIDE not leapt onto and supported the Twoof Movement ???
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Old 27th July 2009, 03:14 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
The complexity of the TM arguments has not developed. It appears to me they are still using the same arguments they used years ago.
In my experience mainstream MIHOP truthers aren't trying to find the truth; they want to "prove" what they already believe to be the case. That core faith is what matters. Most will never admit they're wrong on any significant detail, instead claiming for instance that no-one here has ever debunked anything, disproved a word David Ray Griffin has said, etc etc.

The problem with all this misplaced arrogance is you don't actually grow or develop in any way, except perhaps in coming up with new strategies to protect your beliefs from reality. So most truther theories just stagnate, as you point out: it's the same old arguments repeated over and over again.
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Old 27th July 2009, 03:16 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
I dreaded this, but here I go.

In case you missed it, there was just a presidential election. No one mentions this thing that you guys tell me is believed by engineers, lawyers, all kinds of professionals. It's a seething anger just ready to bust out and take over the streets. But not one of the candidates will talk about it. And there's no one running on a 911 Truth ticket. There are KKK rallies and White Nationalist groups marching in the streets. But 911 Truth? You couldn't miss the role of 911 in the election, but you could watch the whole thing and not know there's anything but planes hijacked by terrorists that crashed into military and political targets.

Maybe they're all in on it. Hell, maybe I'm in on it and don't even know. Maybe the body snatchers have taken control of everyone. I don't know; I'm not an expert on alien parasites. But I can say that virtually no voters seemed concerned about this. It did not come up as an issue.

This would not be possible if vast numbers of professionals and scientists had real serious questions about 911. And then Bill starts posting videos from 2007 about the one thing I do know about 911. There are no firefighters who think there was anything other than planes full of passengers and hijackers crashing in to military and political targets. Probably not even one, or we would know his name.
Are you telling the truth about the history of your relationship with "911 truth"? It doesn't seem like it to me.

Your comments appear to emerge from deep and focussed research (carried out, you say, this year) into the "911 Truth Movement". Why, then, are you asking charmingly naive questions about the status of "911 Conspiracy"? Haven't your intensive studies and journeys around 911-related websites already answered this easily answered question or did your admirable talent for wide-ranging research suddenly have an uncharacteristically bad day?
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Last edited by JihadJane; 27th July 2009 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 27th July 2009, 03:19 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by I_Gaze_At_The_Blue View Post

There are engineers, scientists, physisists, FireFighters, etc, etc, etc, etc all over the world whom will have looked into and studied these events.
Details please.
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Old 27th July 2009, 03:21 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Details please.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=165
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Old 27th July 2009, 04:00 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Scott.in.taiwan, for someone who says they are new to the topic not particularly involved in 9-11 Conspiracy debates you appear to be admirably fluent in the abusive and manipulative debunker lingo.
We have a crash training course for prospective NWO members, didn't you know? It involves strange and esoteric skills, like noticing that someone is lying when they say they'll do something and then very obviously don't do it. So far, the evidence suggests that this secret skill is one we've managed to prevent from falling into the hands of conspiracy theorists.

Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Are you telling the truth about the history of your relationship with "911 truth"? It doesn't seem like it to me.

Your comments appear to emerge from deep and focussed research (carried out, you say, this year) into the "911 Truth Movement".
Yes, it takes an enormous amount of research to find out that the burning political question of who was really responsible for 9/11 didn't seem to figure much in the 2008 elections. Again, this is such a subtle observation that most conspiracy theorists still don't seem to have noticed it.

Dave
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Old 27th July 2009, 04:02 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
I am a new member to this forum and not particularly involved in 9-11 Conspiracy debates. I live overseas and had never heard of a 9-11 Conspiracy theory until earlier this year, when a colleague told me about this. It's obviously utter nonsense, but it seemed to be such a significant claim, I felt compelled to come to some understanding of it.

The impression I'm left with is that the Truther Movement (or whatever you call it) is on its last leg. I doubt they'll disappear, but they are less and less able to generate interest among mainstream people who might have had sympathy for them. They are increasingly left with only highly committed whack-jobs who are willing to accept any claim.

But what do I know? I never even imagined such a thing could exist until a few months ago. Is this a correct perception of the situation?
100% correct.

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Old 27th July 2009, 04:05 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Are you telling the truth about the history of your relationship with "911 truth"? It doesn't seem like it to me.

Your comments appear to emerge from deep and focussed research (carried out, you say, this year) into the "911 Truth Movement". Why, then, are you asking charmingly naive questions about the status of "911 Conspiracy"? Haven't your intensive studies and journeys around 911-related websites already answered this easily answered question or did your admirable talent for wide-ranging research suddenly have an uncharacteristically bad day?
This is a very strange remark. I suppose it's a compliment and I should thank you. I'm a professional researcher and writer. People pay me to do this. My research skills are better than yours. I just don't know everything or have the time and interest to find everything.
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Old 27th July 2009, 04:10 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
This is a very strange remark. I suppose it's a compliment and I should thank you. I'm a professional researcher and writer. People pay me to do this. My research skills are better than yours. I just don't know everything or have the time and interest to find everything.
You will find these sites incredibly helpful,

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Main_Page
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/

TAM
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Old 27th July 2009, 04:30 AM   #57
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I just reread your question and have a better, less condescending answer. I have lived outside the ancestral homelands of my people for a long, long time. I don't really have any sense of what's going on. The USA, Canada, these are foreign countries to me. I may have had a good education and all that other stuff, but I have no sense at all about how things are perceived in the West.

While it's clear to me that 911 Truth stuff had no impact in the last election, honest to God, I had never heard of it then. It wasn't until my mentally unbalanced colleague boasted to me of his iconoclastic knowledge that I ever had any idea that 911 wasn't just plain obvious. Honest to God, that was the first time I ever went to Google and typed in anything about 911 Conspiracy. In fact, until my unstable colleague was on his downward spiral to job termination, I had very little interest in 911 in any sense.

This week, I have a lot of time off. I watched a lot videos and read a lot of stuff - honest to God. In fact, in the beginning, it was really hard to find anything other than conspiracy stuff. It took me days to find this place. But my wife took off with her sister and I had nothing else to do.

I read hundreds of pages of interviews with 911 firefighters and what's the first thing that my buddy Bill Smith gives to me? How the testimony of firefighters proves there was something else going on. And who's his source? A professor of religious studies who keeps telling us he knows more about what happened there than the professional fire fighters whose testimony he tells us he wants to hear.

Last edited by Scott Sommers; 27th July 2009 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 27th July 2009, 04:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
You will find these sites incredibly helpful,

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Main_Page
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/

TAM
Thanks. I found this before. In fact, that's how I got here.
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Old 27th July 2009, 04:45 AM   #59
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Sorry ... but no ... being a newbie and all

Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Details please.

JihadJane ... I may be "new" to this Forum ... but I am NOT new to 9/11 conspiracy de-bunking.

EVERY question that you ask of me WILL have no doubt been previously answered here by others in full and accurately.

But as a new Forum member you should KNOW that I am not able yet to post links, etc.

So ... thank you UNloVedRebel ... for doing it for me.

I already have looked into those and found them to have a common consensus.

And I wonder if JihadJane has ANYTHING as scientifically literate or legitimate to offer in return.

I suspect not ...

Unless it is some of Jones' poor work ... peer-reviewed by sycophants ... published in a vanity journal !!!
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Old 27th July 2009, 05:45 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
Are you telling the truth about the history of your relationship with "911 truth"? It doesn't seem like it to me.

Your comments appear to emerge from deep and focussed research (carried out, you say, this year) into the "911 Truth Movement". Why, then, are you asking charmingly naive questions about the status of "911 Conspiracy"? Haven't your intensive studies and journeys around 911-related websites already answered this easily answered question or did your admirable talent for wide-ranging research suddenly have an uncharacteristically bad day?
what, you cant do enough research in 6 months to come to a conclusion?
usually it takes 6 minutes to see through truther BS (pun intended)

too bad he didnt run into gage's cardboard box demo sooner he coulda saved 5 months and 29 days

how that moron has any support after that embarrassment is beyond me but i guess when youre head is infected with woo anything on youtube looks good lol
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Old 27th July 2009, 06:02 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
I dreaded this, but here I go.

In case you missed it, there was just a presidential election. No one mentions this thing that you guys tell me is believed by engineers, lawyers, all kinds of professionals. It's a seething anger just ready to bust out and take over the streets. But not one of the candidates will talk about it. And there's no one running on a 911 Truth ticket. There are KKK rallies and White Nationalist groups marching in the streets. But 911 Truth? You couldn't miss the role of 911 in the election, but you could watch the whole thing and not know there's anything but planes hijacked by terrorists that crashed into military and political targets.
Well, to be fair, a 9/11 truther did run for President. Cynthia McKinney, the Green Party candidate, did not keep her 9/11 truth support a secret and was endorsed by a number of truthers. She also offered the belief that the government killed 5000 felons in New Orleans under cover of Hurricane Katrina and dumped them in Lake Pontchartrain.

Ms. McKinney got 161,613 votes, or .12% of the total vote cast nationwide.
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Old 27th July 2009, 06:09 AM   #62
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There's a lot more elbow room in Louisiana prisons

Originally Posted by eromitlab View Post
Well, to be fair, a 9/11 truther did run for President. Cynthia McKinney, the Green Party candidate, did not keep her 9/11 truth support a secret and was endorsed by a number of truthers. She also offered the belief that the government killed 5000 felons in New Orleans under cover of Hurricane Katrina and dumped them in Lake Pontchartrain.

Ms. McKinney got 161,613 votes, or .12% of the total vote cast nationwide.
So 5000 Felons are missing? and this is a bad thing?
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Old 27th July 2009, 06:16 AM   #63
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Hi Scott.in.taiwan. I like the way you write, direct and to the point. For the record, I too earn my living as a researcher and writer, so perhaps this is why I recognize such good writing when I see it. I hope you stay a while and post often.

As for the status of the 9/11 conspiracy, I wrote the following post in another thread, one that eventually got consigned to "Abandon All Hope" (also known as AAH; it's the repository for threads and posts that the JREF Forum moderators feel are inappropriate). After checking with the moderators, I have learned that it's OK to salvage material from AAH, so long as said material does not violate Forum rules. So here's my take on the current status of the 9/11 CT, at least as represented by its members who come here to the JREF Forum to post:

Quote:
Back in the earlier days, dealing with 9/11 CTers was like having someone show up in front of your house shouting "You and your friends are all murderers!" This isn't the sort of thing you want your neighbors to hear unchallenged, so we rushed out and said "No we're not!" and proved it. Then after a while a different group showed up and yelled "You're all a bunch of a-holes!!" and some of us would kind of get caught up in the emotions of the moment and shout back "You're the a-holes!!" until we realized how juvenile and futile it was.

But now, the only ones who show up anymore just smear their own feces all over their bodies while screaming incoherently. And the reaction to that is just sort of to say "WTF?" and scratch our collective heads wondering just what it is these people imagine they're trying to accomplish.

A better person than I probably wouldn't find the spectacle quite so funny. But as I readily admit, I'm not that person. So...A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
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Old 27th July 2009, 06:33 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Yes, it takes an enormous amount of research to find out that the burning political question of who was really responsible for 9/11 didn't seem to figure much in the 2008 elections. Again, this is such a subtle observation that most conspiracy theorists still don't seem to have noticed it.

Dave
I was referring to all scott.in.taiwan's comments on this thread, his/her insights into the long-term development of the "911 Truth Movement" in particular.


Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
This is a very strange remark. I suppose it's a compliment and I should thank you. I'm a professional researcher and writer. People pay me to do this. My research skills are better than yours. I just don't know everything or have the time and interest to find everything.
I remain to be convinced by your back story and am also curious as to how you researched my research abilities.

Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
I just reread your question and have a better, less condescending answer. I have lived outside the ancestral homelands of my people for a long, long time. I don't really have any sense of what's going on. The USA, Canada, these are foreign countries to me. I may have had a good education and all that other stuff, but I have no sense at all about how things are perceived in the West.
The internet could help you find out what's going on in foreign countries or is researching attitudes in foreign countries outside your research skills bracket? You seem to know almost everything else about "911 Conspiracy".

Quote:
While it's clear to me that 911 Truth stuff had no impact in the last election, honest to God, I had never heard of it then. It wasn't until my mentally unbalanced colleague boasted to me of his iconoclastic knowledge that I ever had any idea that 911 wasn't just plain obvious. Honest to God, that was the first time I ever went to Google and typed in anything about 911 Conspiracy. In fact, until my unstable colleague was on his downward spiral to job termination, I had very little interest in 911 in any sense.

This week, I have a lot of time off. I watched a lot videos and read a lot of stuff - honest to God. In fact, in the beginning, it was really hard to find anything other than conspiracy stuff. It took me days to find this place. But my wife took off with her sister and I had nothing else to do.

I read hundreds of pages of interviews with 911 firefighters and what's the first thing that my buddy Bill Smith gives to me? How the testimony of firefighters proves there was something else going on. And who's his source? A professor of religious studies who keeps telling us he knows more about what happened there than the professional fire fighters whose testimony he tells us he wants to hear.

I not interested in discussing the content of your disagreement with Bill Smith. What struck me was the ease with which you slipped into fluent debunkerese, strange coming from someone “not particularly involved in 9-11 Conspiracy debates” (OP).

Perhaps you’re just a quick learner or a good mimic.

I am interested to know how you ascertained, from your research, that the "TM" is "still using the same arguments they used years ago". When I first started studying the topic, exploring the mechanics of the Tower's disintegration was correctly judged by many 911 skeptics to be a a red herring, or worse - as counterproductive as obsessing about what did or didn't hit the Pentagon - and would probably be used to destroy any chances of exposing US complicity in the attacks.


Was your suffering colleague professionally diagnosed or are you speaking colloquially when you call him "mentally unstable"?

Originally Posted by I_Gaze_At_The_Blue View Post
But as a new Forum member you should KNOW that I am not able yet to post links, etc.

So ... thank you UNloVedRebel ... for doing it for me.
Just leave the http:// bit off.

I can't see UNloVedRebel's post so you or someone else will have to post the links if you want me to respond to them.


Originally Posted by Justin39640 View Post
what, you cant do enough research in 6 months to come to a conclusion?

Why would it take six months (or a week?) to ascertain the status of 911 Conspiracy in the USA?

When newbie "twoofers" come onto this site disingenuously Just Asking Questions they are usually jumped on pretty quickly. Perhaps your skepticism is actually tribalism in disguise and not really skepticism at all.



Or am I assuming too much?
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Old 27th July 2009, 06:37 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
I not interested in discussing the content of your disagreement with Bill Smith. What struck me was the ease with which you slipped into fluent debunkerese, strange coming from someone “not particularly involved in 9-11 Conspiracy debates” (OP).

Perhaps you’re just a quick learner or a good mimic.
Or perhaps the observations that the regulars here have been making about the truth movement are blindingly obvious to those who aren't blinkered by their own idealogy.

Incidentally, "fluent debunkerese" seems, from the example you've given, to mean calling a liar a liar. Is that so specialised a use of language?

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Old 27th July 2009, 06:51 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
and am also curious as to how you researched my research abilities.
Your a member of the truth bowel movement. Nobody in the truth bowel movement has the ability to do any research. Do the math.
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Old 27th July 2009, 07:02 AM   #67
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I gotta ask: does it really matter if my story is true? My identity is hardly secret. I bet I've given you enough information already to find my true identity. I think it does matter because, as Roger has pointed out, it just takes a weekend with nothing to do to figure out what's going here. And he's right again about why I call Bill a liar. You guys have been have talking for so long to people who, no matter how much they disagree with you, they really want talk to you. The reality is that people who aren't part of this world just think the way you act is rude and stupid.

But really, does it matter if I am who I say I am? What would you concede if I really turned out to be a brand new guy who knew nothing about this trash until a few months ago and had spent a no more than a few hours researching it on the Net? What would you be willing to admit?
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Old 27th July 2009, 07:09 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
I was referring to all scott.in.taiwan's comments on this thread, his/her insights into the long-term development of the "911 Truth Movement" in particular.
Maybe Scott is a professional debunker paid by the NWO to spread dis-info on the Internet and mess with your head.

....or maybe not.
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Old 27th July 2009, 07:43 AM   #69
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Ya...that's it...I'm an agent for the NWO. No, no...I'm one of those half-human alien things. Nah...but it is true that you can probably find who I am.

The really amazing thing here is what a little bit of school and few years of maturity can do for you. Honest to God you guys, how many times can write or say or provide links that claim there are all these engineers and firefighters and even CIA agents who belong to the 911 TM? All it takes is an afternoon that the wife's away to figure out that there's no more than a handful of these guys and that the ones there are all have some weird kind of psychological baggage with them.

By the way, I work quite closely with building designers and constructors. Many engineers and architects actually have very little knowledge of large building dynamics. Lots of them design houses or build roads. The fact that someone has a degree in civil engineering or architecture don't mean nothing. If you're going to provide me with links that are supposed to change my life, make sure it doesn't Gage What's-his-name talking about free fall or how many firefighters believe it was an 'inside job'.

Honestly, you provide me with videos of major building designers or constructors whose names I can verify. You provide me with videos of firefighters - that's plural - saying that they believe the 'inside job' story. Provide me with the names of officials and those involved in planting detonators or piloting cruise missiles into the Pentagon. You show me where the passengers of United 93 are being held. You give me the names of soldiers or technicians that performed the miracles of 911 Truth. I want names of people. Names, names, names. And not these students and interior designers who belong to Architects for 911 Truth. Real names of structural engineers. Real names of demolition firms that will confirm your hallucinations. Real names of engineers who worked on the construction of the WTC who believe what you believe.

And I don't mean this crap that Bill Smith put in front of me. I've seen all the garbage that's available. I do not want you to waste my time with more links that convince no one except people who already have to take medication to control their thoughts.

If it's anything else, then I politely ask you to refrain from stealing the moments of my life with drivel.

Otherwise, I don't want to talk to you and I ask you to stop bothering me and let me talk with the seriously knowledgeable people that I came here to meet.
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Old 27th July 2009, 07:51 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
You show me where the passengers of United 93 are being held.
Why, the bowel movement already made it clear that the passengers are secondary to their idiotic claims.
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Old 27th July 2009, 07:54 AM   #71
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'Cause they're not to me. If they can't show me where all those people are being held ever so secretly for so many years, then they're just making up a story.
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Old 27th July 2009, 07:57 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
'Cause they're not to me. If they can't show me where all those people are being held ever so secretly for so many years, then they're just making up a story.
Plenty of other reasons to understand they are making things up as they go along but that is what they said about the passengers. Want to hear and see more of their disrespectful and idiotic bs? Watch MarkyX's video called 9/11 Deniers Speak.
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Old 27th July 2009, 08:12 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
'Cause they're not to me. If they can't show me where all those people are being held ever so secretly for so many years, then they're just making up a story.
This particular point, like so many, merely caused a "modification" of the truther worldview/mantra.

Prior to this point, they would leave it as "a mystery" as to what happened to the passengers. When confronted on it, they, like most truthers, adapted, and usually went with,

"They were collected together and murdered." or some such variation.

Got a problem with missing passengers? Make the make-believe bad guys killem.

TAM
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Old 27th July 2009, 08:26 AM   #74
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So I watched the video you referred to. One thing that struck me is that 911 Truth is a really White thing. I've watched dozens of videos of 911 Truth protests. I have never seen a coloured person. In fact, 9/11 Deniers Speak Out: Ground Zero Edition Part 1
opens with a confrontation between 911ers and some Black Muslims. It also seems to be a really young and middle-class group.
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Old 27th July 2009, 08:32 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
So I watched the video you referred to. One thing that struck me is that 911 Truth is a really White thing. I've watched dozens of videos of 911 Truth protests. I have never seen a coloured person. In fact, 9/11 Deniers Speak Out: Ground Zero Edition Part 1
opens with a confrontation between 911ers and some Black Muslims. It also seems to be a really young and middle-class group.
There are a few black people but as you saw it is mostly white middle/lower class. Not too surprising that the bowel movement is infused with quite alot of anti-semitism. Notice that the KKK wears white uniforms and the nazi's wore brown shirts while the self named truthers wear black. If I were a black, homosexual, jew, gypsy or any of alot of other types I would be worried but for some reason I doubt that most truthers are able to shoot straight.
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Old 27th July 2009, 08:32 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
This particular point, like so many, merely caused a "modification" of the truther worldview/mantra.

Prior to this point, they would leave it as "a mystery" as to what happened to the passengers. When confronted on it, they, like most truthers, adapted, and usually went with,

"They were collected together and murdered." or some such variation.

Got a problem with missing passengers? Make the make-believe bad guys killem.

TAM
Then I want to see their bodies. These are my rules for why I should waste my time with them.

Every second I talk with one of them is a second from my life that I can never reclaim. I can't imagine one of their ridiculous ideas that I haven't already seen on video. And I didn't come here to talk with whack-jobs about why I reject their world. If they want to talk with me, they better have something new that isn't already on the Net because, as I said, claims about firefighters and demolition experts are just so much trash.

~enigma~'s point about the 911 Deniers video was great. It was part of what I came here to find. Thanks.
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Old 27th July 2009, 08:39 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by scott.in.taiwan View Post
The impression I'm left with is that the Truther Movement (or whatever you call it) is on its last leg. I doubt they'll disappear, but they are less and less able to generate interest among mainstream people who might have had sympathy for them. They are increasingly left with only highly committed whack-jobs who are willing to accept any claim.
The truth movement has no credible or coherent arguments....they have been reduced to...
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Old 27th July 2009, 08:39 AM   #78
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Hey, Scott and welcome aboard.

I was literally in the same predicament as you when I stumbled across the 911 nonsense 'lo those 3 years ago, and this was the place I first came across it. After years of reading SWIFT and following Randi's work in general, I started reading the forums and was astonished one year to see this rash of commentary on 911 conspiracies.

I can verify what you're saying, personally. Almost no one over here had any idea that there was such a CT going on. I've been in Hong Kong since 2002, and having witnessed 9/11 live outside my office window in New York (Jersey City to be precise), I was taken to join these forums pretty much for the same reason you cite. To check into some of this lunacy first hand.

Where are you in Taiwan? I lived in Taipei for two years and still have some of my closest friends there. (My best buddy is part owner of China Pa, one of the better hangouts in town.)
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Old 27th July 2009, 08:43 AM   #79
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Basically the bowel movement is a hate group just like the KKK, Aryan Nation, Nazis, Neo-Nazis, etc...

The only difference is that ALL the hate groups besides the bowel movement are better organized and actually have a better turnout of supporters at their rallys.
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Old 27th July 2009, 08:51 AM   #80
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Thanks for the welcome.

I live in Taipei County quite far from Taipei. My best Taiwanese friend is a licensed construction engineer and a specialist on earthquake damage. Back in 2001, we talked all about steel frame buildings and what happened at the WTC. His words to me were that if he had seen a steel frame building like that on fire, he would have run the other way as fast as he could. The idea that anyone could find this surprising had him laughing.

But thanks for the words of understanding. In fact, this is a very welcoming place. I appreciate the kind words.
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