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Old 15th August 2009, 06:06 PM   #41
ElMondoHummus
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Originally Posted by WUBRINY63 View Post
No. It should have been investigated and the half-assed one they did do as bad as it was is useful. There just should have been more and more through. It does seem like some people in the GOVERNMENT really didn't want any investigation at all. Why is that?
Originally Posted by T.A.M. View Post
how was it half-assed?
How was it not useful?
In what area should they have been more thorough? (I am assuming you have read it, and will be able to point to sections you have read that you feel were not done well enough)

The reason, if there are some in the BUSH govt who didn't want an investigation, was likely that they did not want their mistakes, and lack of attention to terrorism before hand revealed to the american public at a time when they were gearing up for war.

TAM
You've yet to answer this satisfactorily. How were the investigations into 9/11 "half-assed? How was it not useful? In what area(s) should they have been more thorough?
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Old 15th August 2009, 06:07 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by jhunter1163 View Post
To be fair, there's no way that new movie has a budget anywhere near $3.5 million. $.035 million is probably more like it. Sunjata doesn't work cheap.
Well I don't think it is likely they have $3.5 million either. I was really tring to ask why the "Truthers" are ok with Dylan, AJ, Bermas, and all the others who make hundreds of thousands to millions of dollors from them, but never ever even hint at pooling there money for an "unbias" investagation, but to be fair Jones did spend $800.

"Truthers" keep telling me to demand the goverment leaders give us a "real investagation", but they never ask the same of their TM leaders.
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Old 15th August 2009, 08:21 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by WUBRINY63 View Post
Got something else to support your story debunker that might convince a twoofer?
Well, you see, here's the problem. When I argue/debunk/etc. , I do so for the benefit of any lurkers or otherwise rational people who may have heard the constant lies of the trVth movement and wondered if there was anything behind them. However, said lurkers are rational and can easily accept the sensible arguments that we give.

Twoofers, on the other hand, are batcrap crazy and if they are not they are merely inept surly trolls desperately trying to get some kind of pwnage. All the rational arguments and evidence in the world will not convince them because they are insane or completely seduced by insane arguments. There's no point to trying to convince them, just efforts to make certain that otherwise sane people don't fall for their nonsense or go uncountered.
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Old 15th August 2009, 08:28 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Well, you see, here's the problem. When I argue/debunk/etc. , I do so for the benefit of any lurkers or otherwise rational people who may have heard the constant lies of the trVth movement and wondered if there was anything behind them. However, said lurkers are rational and can easily accept the sensible arguments that we give.

Twoofers, on the other hand, are batcrap crazy and if they are not they are merely inept surly trolls desperately trying to get some kind of pwnage. All the rational arguments and evidence in the world will not convince them because they are insane or completely seduced by insane arguments. There's no point to trying to convince them, just efforts to make certain that otherwise sane people don't fall for their nonsense or go uncountered.
FYI: you're replying to someone who said this:

Originally Posted by Homeland Incoherency
Why don't most barbecue grills warp eventually? Or the gratings in an oven? Or the elements on a stove top?

You know what I mean? Seriously.
His new screen name reveals his age: 46. Nearly twice my senior. Un-*******-believable.
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Old 15th August 2009, 08:28 PM   #45
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That the Taliban are still wreaking havoc in Afghanistan and Pakistan bothers me more.
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Old 15th August 2009, 08:46 PM   #46
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One thing that really bothers me, which came about from my study of the 9/11 truth movement is that I never really knew seemingly "normal" people could be so crazy. The fact that Morgan Renoylds made it so far in one part of his life despite being an absolute lunitic..... disturbes me. The idea that Jim Fetzer actually taught logic of all things.... Just to know people like that exist bothers me..... I guess I should have known. but I never did.

So yeah, it's the discovery of highly functional insanity that really bothers me.
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Old 15th August 2009, 09:00 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Luntoc View Post
Is there anything about 9/11 that does bother you?
Yea, truthers.
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Old 15th August 2009, 09:01 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
Is there anything about 9/11 that does bother you?

Do mean other than the fact that terrorists killed 3,000 innocent people? That bothers me a lot.
I lost all my business for 3 months following 9/11 (and I'm nowhere near DC or NYC).

My friend got married shortly after 9/11, when air traffic was still grounded. His reception was at top-of-the-hotel ballroom overlooking the airport. Not only did many of his out-of-town guests have to cancel, but the view was sad and eerie for what was a joyful occasion.

But none of this fits in with any CT.
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Old 15th August 2009, 10:11 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by WUBRINY63 View Post
No. It should have been investigated and the half-assed one they did do as bad as it was is useful. There just should have been more and more through. It does seem like some people in the GOVERNMENT really didn't want any investigation at all. Why is that?
Now why would politicians want to cover up their rear ends when they goofed and allowed 3,000 citizens to be murdered on their watch.

Call me SHOCKED, ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED that politicans want to cover their asses.


There are issues about 9/11 that I think need to be looked at closer, and need to be made MUCH MORE PUBLIC.

such as the connection between the ISI and Atta, and the links from where the funding came from.

I'd also love to see the EXACT evidence which implicates UBL.

I want to see the files from the FBI investigations into the attacks.

But NONE of those change the basic underlying events of 19 dedicated terrorists hijacking 4 jets, killing the pilots and crashing them into buildings.
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Old 15th August 2009, 10:35 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by UNLoVedRebel View Post
His new screen name reveals his age: 46. Nearly twice my senior. Un-*******-believable.
Proof of:

1. Wisdom does not come from age.

2. You can't fix stupid. It's forevah.
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Old 15th August 2009, 11:49 PM   #51
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Many things:
- Poor follow-up on the 911 Commission Report
- Creation and operation of the Department of Homeland Security
- Iraq

and others. But nothing to do with 911 CT nutters.
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Old 16th August 2009, 12:15 AM   #52
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For me it is the total incompetence of the security services, but then again, I'm not quite sure how you go about finding 19 potential hijackers in a population of 300,000,000.

Last edited by Oscar; 16th August 2009 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 16th August 2009, 02:59 AM   #53
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My other issues with 9/11 deal with all of the lies, distortions and misinformation presented by the "Truth" movement.

I'd love to see them go through and audit all of the different FULLY DEBUNKED theories out there, and at the very least see them try to police their own movement. That bothers me (and I'm sure a whole bunch of YOU) more than any small inconsistencies from the events of 9/11.
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Old 16th August 2009, 04:28 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by peteweaver View Post
The murder of innocents by terrorists bothers me.
The failiure of Counter terrorism agencies, and airport security in preventing armed men from getting onto planes to hijack them bothers me.
The response from the Bush administration (i.e. patriot act, guantanamo bay) bothers me.

I don't need a conspiracy theory that defies the laws of physics to see things to get bothered about.
Seconded.
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Old 16th August 2009, 04:40 AM   #55
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never mind
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Old 16th August 2009, 01:56 PM   #56
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I'm deeply bothered that some people could believe 911 was the work of government employees. I am not an engineer or technical expert. I have a education in organizational theory and have managed many public sector projects. The idea that a 911-conspiracy-like-thing could be pulled off by a handful of people without any help from the fire department and demolitions community is ridiculous. The idea that some could believe the fire deprtment and demolitions community were involved in this is disgusting. 911 conspiracy treats the tragedy as though it were an episode of CSI and everyone in the world - except them - is suspect in a psychopathic killing. It's as though no one involved has feelings.

Is there anything about 9/11 that bothers me? Yes. A response to the tragedy that turns its victims into perpetrators.

Last edited by Scott Sommers; 16th August 2009 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 17th August 2009, 04:47 AM   #57
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I am an uneducated long haul truck driver. I have no clue about the number crunching involved in the collapse of those buildings.
Like millions of other people I have no need for it.
Like millions of other people I seen the horror of that day unravel on TV.
Like millions of other people on 9/12 I was sickened, scared and pissed off and I wanted someone to blame.
When the 911 twoof crap started shortly after I admit I listened to it at first.
The murderers killed themselves in the process of committing their crime so there was no one left to string up.
It didn't take me very long to realize that all the twoofer junk was just that junk.
Then a couple of years ago I had a load into New York City. After dropping my load I had a 3 day lay over before I picked up my next load at the JFK.
I took the time to do some site seeing. I went to ground zero and learned something new.
A real event seen on TV is not even remotely close to actually being there.
As I stood there I couldn't help but think of the women who were at work that day. A day like any other, wondering if they won the knick knack they wanted on Ebay or hoping the new diet they started was going to work.
The men wondering if they should do the gym that night or just go straight home.
After all they could grab a work out tomorrow.
And then no more tomorrows ever. No knick knacks. No diets. No nothing.
Those that were killed instantly like that were the lucky ones of those that did die that day.
After that I viewed the 911 twoofers in a new light. They were not just nut jobs trying to get noticed with all their stupidity.
They are cold self centered nut jobs without one ounce of compassion for those that died that day and those they left behind.
So what still bothers me about the horrible events that happened on 9/11/01 is even after we have a new President they are still vomiting out their so called truth to ever will listen.
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Old 17th August 2009, 05:16 AM   #58
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I'm curious as to why it is always insinuated that there was only one investigation into 9/11 when all of the following did their own investigations:

FBI
NTSB
the affected airlines
the airline's insurance companies
FEMA
Interpol
pretty much all the intelligence agencies in NATO
NIST
even China did a technical investigation

So what is all this about one investigation?
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Old 17th August 2009, 06:04 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I'm curious as to why it is always insinuated that there was only one investigation into 9/11 when all of the following did their own investigations:

FBI
NTSB
the affected airlines
the airline's insurance companies
FEMA
Interpol
pretty much all the intelligence agencies in NATO
NIST
even China did a technical investigation

So what is all this about one investigation?
Travis is right, and is in fact understating this point. With the exception of the FEMA, NIST, and perhaps the Chinese "technical investigation" (is that a reference to the Tsinghua University study?), the ones listed here are more investigations into culpability than anything else. That of course is very important, but when you expand this point into technical studies, you find many projects dedicated to researching the collapses. The architectural/engineering firm Arup's investigation is one very notable one. So's the Purdue study. And the list goes on, eventually encompassing the Weidinger Associates study, the Exponent Failure Analysis Associates one, etc. etc... and this is before we get into analyses of isolated issues, such the UC Davis "Delta" group's study concentrating on the aerosol emissions, the Worchester Polytechnic study of the eutectic corrosion, and so on.

Conspiracy peddlers like to cast the event as being a monolithic, single investigation - all the more to set the argument as being "the government" vs. everyone else - but this is far from being the case. The fact that truthers like to sum up the accumulation of knowledge assembled by the various investigations and studies as "the official story" betrays their lack of comprehension of the knowledge generated for the event.
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Old 17th August 2009, 08:52 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
Travis is right, and is in fact understating this point. With the exception of the FEMA, NIST, and perhaps the Chinese "technical investigation" (is that a reference to the Tsinghua University study?), the ones listed here are more investigations into culpability than anything else.
Yes, I couldn't remember the exact university but that is what I was referring to.

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
Conspiracy peddlers like to cast the event as being a monolithic, single investigation - all the more to set the argument as being "the government" vs. everyone else - but this is far from being the case. The fact that truthers like to sum up the accumulation of knowledge assembled by the various investigations and studies as "the official story" betrays their lack of comprehension of the knowledge generated for the event.
Which was my point. Saying the 9/11 Commission was the only investigation (often followed with an accusation of it being underfunded/rife with incompetence or invalid) is either willful deceit or an admission of staggering ignorance.
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Old 17th August 2009, 09:33 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Saying the 9/11 Commission was the only investigation (often followed with an accusation of it being underfunded/rife with incompetence or invalid) is either willful deceit or an admission of staggering ignorance.
In my experience, I think I've seen that it starts out as the latter (staggering ignorance), then transforms into the former (willful deceit) once the conspiracy addict is shown the truth. The phrase "The Official Story" is just too good a phrase to give up, regardless of how distortive it is.
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Old 17th August 2009, 09:47 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by WUBRINY63 View Post
Well now. Most conspiracy theorist believe that the attacks were somehow perpetrated or allowed to happen by some individuals inside the government. So? What good is an investigation sponsored by those same individuals as far as a conspiracy theorist goes? Especially a very late and half-assed investigation.

Got something else to support your story debunker that might convince a twoofer?
Why can't you remain on topic? Is it the standard junk; Truthers have dirt dumb ideas why don't you have evidence to support your moronic delusions leading to your failed conclusion on 911?

Never found a truther who can use logic and sound judgment based on knowledge; why is that?



Bush is president and he does not have to tap dance for congress.


I suspect when you see a terrorist act in the US after living in a country where dolts blow themselves up all the time you may have some perverted way of expressing "welcome to our world".

This sums up for the truthers with moronic delusions.
Originally Posted by Brattus View Post
I am an uneducated long haul truck driver. I have no clue about the number crunching involved in the collapse of those buildings.
Like millions of other people I have no need for it.
Like millions of other people I seen the horror of that day unravel on TV.
Like millions of other people on 9/12 I was sickened, scared and pissed off and I wanted someone to blame.
When the 911 twoof crap started shortly after I admit I listened to it at first.
The murderers killed themselves in the process of committing their crime so there was no one left to string up.
It didn't take me very long to realize that all the twoofer junk was just that junk.
Then a couple of years ago I had a load into New York City. After dropping my load I had a 3 day lay over before I picked up my next load at the JFK.
I took the time to do some site seeing. I went to ground zero and learned something new.
A real event seen on TV is not even remotely close to actually being there.
As I stood there I couldn't help but think of the women who were at work that day. A day like any other, wondering if they won the knick knack they wanted on Ebay or hoping the new diet they started was going to work.
The men wondering if they should do the gym that night or just go straight home.
After all they could grab a work out tomorrow.
And then no more tomorrows ever. No knick knacks. No diets. No nothing.
Those that were killed instantly like that were the lucky ones of those that did die that day.
After that I viewed the 911 twoofers in a new light. They were not just nut jobs trying to get noticed with all their stupidity.
They are cold self centered nut jobs without one ounce of compassion for those that died that day and those they left behind.
So what still bothers me about the horrible events that happened on 9/11/01 is even after we have a new President they are still vomiting out their so called truth to ever will listen.
The truth about 911 truth...

Last edited by beachnut; 17th August 2009 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 17th August 2009, 09:51 AM   #63
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'After that I viewed the 911 twoofers in a new light. They were not just nut jobs trying to get noticed with all their stupidity.
Brattus wrote
Quote:
'They are cold self centered nut jobs without one ounce of compassion for those that died that day and those they left behind.
So what still bothers me about the horrible events that happened on 9/11/01 is even after we have a new President they are still vomiting out their so called truth to ever will listen.'
Hear hear!

As for myself, I'm absolutely appalled that the self-titled 'truth' movement has developed into a full-blown anti-government, anti-science conspiracy cult. The shockingly inane and phony arguments are found at the most educated spectrum of the cult movement, notably its most prominent members.

On the other hand, I have despised the tactics of the Bush administration following 9/11. In my mind there is no question that the Bushies exploited the tragedy to push through a previously developed (neocon) agenda to meddle in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan, to name just the most important countries.
I also was severely disappointed that Congress and the Senate rolled over and acceded to the Bush sales pitch - they were too gutless to oppose what they must have known were exaggerated scenarios. Too gutless to oppose the 'decider', a 'war president'.
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Old 17th August 2009, 10:00 AM   #64
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Very well said, Brattus.
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Old 17th August 2009, 10:22 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post
snip.

I also was severely disappointed that Congress and the Senate rolled over and acceded to the Bush sales pitch - they were too gutless to oppose what they must have known were exaggerated scenarios. Too gutless to oppose the 'decider', a 'war president'.
AE.
While I detest GWB and think he will go down as one of the 5 worst US presidents, I don't think that is why congress was gutless.

I think it was guilt and fear.

Guilt over the oversight failures and how many members of congress and the government failed the us citizens on such a massive scale

AND

Fear of being labeled as soft on terror, or worse being labeled as one of the people who CF'd the whole shebang. We know that many politicans wrapped themselves in the flag, even when some of them most definately helped contribute to the attacks (by lack of insight or lack of oversight) and they didn't want to be voted out of power.
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Old 17th August 2009, 11:08 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by alienentity View Post

On the other hand, I have despised the tactics of the Bush administration following 9/11. In my mind there is no question that the Bushies exploited the tragedy to push through a previously developed (neocon) agenda to meddle in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan, to name just the most important countries.
I also was severely disappointed that Congress and the Senate rolled over and acceded to the Bush sales pitch - they were too gutless to oppose what they must have known were exaggerated scenarios. Too gutless to oppose the 'decider', a 'war president'.
The invasion of Afghanistan was, for me, legitamate enough based on the refusal to hand over ObL. Everyone in the House and Senate voted for it (short of one die-hard pacifist.) The fact that Bush botched the victory says nothing about the justification of the invasion in the first place.

For Iraq, I think that 1/4-1/3rd voted it down. Given 9/11 and the rhetoric and lies from the administration and public opinion, it's impressive and certainly isn't "gutless". It's just not enough.
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Old 17th August 2009, 11:16 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Brattus View Post
I am an uneducated long haul truck driver. I have no clue about the number crunching involved in the collapse of those buildings.
Like millions of other people I have no need for it.
Like millions of other people I seen the horror of that day unravel on TV.
Like millions of other people on 9/12 I was sickened, scared and pissed off and I wanted someone to blame.
When the 911 twoof crap started shortly after I admit I listened to it at first.
The murderers killed themselves in the process of committing their crime so there was no one left to string up.
It didn't take me very long to realize that all the twoofer junk was just that junk.
Then a couple of years ago I had a load into New York City. After dropping my load I had a 3 day lay over before I picked up my next load at the JFK.
I took the time to do some site seeing. I went to ground zero and learned something new.
A real event seen on TV is not even remotely close to actually being there.
As I stood there I couldn't help but think of the women who were at work that day. A day like any other, wondering if they won the knick knack they wanted on Ebay or hoping the new diet they started was going to work.
The men wondering if they should do the gym that night or just go straight home.
After all they could grab a work out tomorrow.
And then no more tomorrows ever. No knick knacks. No diets. No nothing.
Those that were killed instantly like that were the lucky ones of those that did die that day.
After that I viewed the 911 twoofers in a new light. They were not just nut jobs trying to get noticed with all their stupidity.
They are cold self centered nut jobs without one ounce of compassion for those that died that day and those they left behind.
So what still bothers me about the horrible events that happened on 9/11/01 is even after we have a new President they are still vomiting out their so called truth to ever will listen.
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Old 17th August 2009, 11:18 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by WUBRINY63 View Post
Great Post!
I don't think he is agreeing with you.
I have a feeling that you saw laws of physics and since that is a buzz word within the TM you must of creamed thinking he was agreeing with you.
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Old 17th August 2009, 11:19 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by WUBRINY63 View Post
Well now. Most conspiracy theorist believe that the attacks were somehow perpetrated or allowed to happen by some individuals inside the government. So? What good is an investigation sponsored by those same individuals as far as a conspiracy theorist goes? Especially a very late and half-assed investigation.

Got something else to support your story debunker that might convince a twoofer?
Who are these individuals?
Are you saying first responders are now in on it?
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Old 17th August 2009, 04:26 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
In my experience, I think I've seen that it starts out as the latter (staggering ignorance), then transforms into the former (willful deceit) once the conspiracy addict is shown the truth. The phrase "The Official Story" is just too good a phrase to give up, regardless of how distortive it is.
I generally think that's how it progresses as well. It starts that the Commission was the only investigation they had heard of so they assume it was the only one that happened. They assume, owing to their ignorance of system failures vs point failures, that since no one was strung up as a result it must have been a failure. They then harp on the failure of the one investigation.....only to discover that there were many, many others that all, more or less, corroborate each other. Well, by then it's too late and, not wanting to admit they made an artifact of their ignorance a key talking point, they simply pretend they never learned this and hope no one notices. In fact I think that's a generally followed path with most conspiracy theory thinking.
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Old 17th August 2009, 07:04 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Luntoc View Post
I was wondering I know most of us on here don't believe in this nonsense. But is there an aspect of 9/11 that does bother you. There is one for me. Why didn't Bush testify under oath? And then the dancing Israelis. Why were they celebrating or dancing or whatver (after the attacks not before)? Were they just being immature or what? Anybody on here know?
There are many things about September the 11th, 2001, that bother me greatly. I am bothered greatly by the fact that Islamic Terrorists caused such carnage, such murder in our homeland. In the context of this forum, I am even more bothered by the fact that we have Americans, fellow countrymen, claiming that someone else caused this carnage, thus taking the blame away from those Islamic Terrorists who are guilty of conducting these attacks. I don't know who I hate more, Osama bin Laden, or the likes of people such as Craig Ranke, and Aldo Marquis.

Last edited by Lupie; 17th August 2009 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 17th August 2009, 07:31 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Lupie View Post
There are many things about September the 11th, 2001, that bother me greatly. I am bothered greatly by the fact that Islamic Terrorists caused such carnage, such murder in our homeland. In the context of this forum, I am even more bothered by the fact that we have Americans, fellow countrymen, claiming that someone else caused this carnage, thus taking the blame away from those Islamic Terrorists who are guilty of conducting these attacks. I don't know who I hate more, Osama bin Laden, or the likes of Craig Ranke and Aldo Marquis.
Emphasis mine.

I would humbly suggest you hate Osama bin Laden more. He, at least, represents a clear and present danger. [/clancy mode]

Ranke and Marquis are a couple of nobodies who disappear when you log off the internet (indeed, you have to actively search them out to begin with). Although they are worthy of derision, methinks (in my opinion) they don't merit 'hate'. That would mean paying too much attention to something akin to what you usually find stuck on the toilet seat at a rest stop.
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Old 17th August 2009, 07:33 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by TruthersLie View Post
AE.
While I detest GWB and think he will go down as one of the 5 worst US presidents, I don't think that is why congress was gutless.

I think it was guilt and fear.

Guilt over the oversight failures and how many members of congress and the government failed the us citizens on such a massive scale

AND

Fear of being labeled as soft on terror, or worse being labeled as one of the people who CF'd the whole shebang. We know that many politicans wrapped themselves in the flag, even when some of them most definately helped contribute to the attacks (by lack of insight or lack of oversight) and they didn't want to be voted out of power.
Totally agree.
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Old 17th August 2009, 07:59 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by longfellow View Post
Although they are worthy of derision, methinks (in my opinion) they don't merit 'hate'. That would mean paying too much attention to something akin to what you usually find stuck on the toilet seat at a rest stop.
I can live with that, it's a very good point (especialy the toilet seat/rest stop part).
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Old 17th August 2009, 08:17 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
Troll or sock puppet, Im putting the OP on my ignore list.
Originally Posted by njslim View Post
Ever notice how truther trolls start out sounding rational. Yet within half dozen posts
the mask is ripped off and Insane Clown Truther emerges spewing all the usual
nonsence

Got to get better class of trolls......

Uhhh, guys... the OP is Luntoc and he's apparently neither a troll nor a truther (just check his or her posting history).

The troll that everyone was so easily manipulated by is WUBRINY631.


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1. His or her screen name, by the way, is a reference to some alleged "Project WUBRINY" in 1963, apparently linked to the JFK assassination in some way, but which exists nowhere except on conspiracy websites.

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Old 18th August 2009, 01:32 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
You've yet to answer this satisfactorily. How were the investigations into 9/11 "half-assed? How was it not useful? In what area(s) should they have been more thorough?
I keep looking at what the quotee said, and it appears s/he was saying the 9/11 investigations were "half-assed" but useful. In what context? I'm not quite sure.
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Old 18th August 2009, 04:02 AM   #77
T.A.M.
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
Uhhh, guys... the OP is Luntoc and he's apparently neither a troll nor a truther (just check his or her posting history).

The troll that everyone was so easily manipulated by is WUBRINY631.


-----
1. His or her screen name, by the way, is a reference to some alleged "Project WUBRINY" in 1963, apparently linked to the JFK assassination in some way, but which exists nowhere except on conspiracy websites.
The jury is still out on both, IMO.

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Old 18th August 2009, 11:41 AM   #78
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Brattus, for someone who considers himself uneducated you wrote one of the best summaries of the twoofer movement I've seen in a long time.
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Old 21st August 2009, 09:00 AM   #79
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I for one am bothered by the way in which foriegn policy is discounted as having anything to do with terrorism.

"Terrorists hate us because of our freedoms!"

Granted, they don't like our way of life but is that really the main reason why Islamic militants hate the USA?

Could it not have more to do with the US meddling in the Middle East for the past 60 odd years?

Bombing, invasions, CIA coups, US-backed regimes, blind support for Israel and the sudden obsession with "freedom" when a regime doesn't take orders from Washington....I think that might explain anti-US terror more than Islamic hatred for Britney Spears, apple pie and democracy.

Granted, the Islamists are a reactionary movement that aims to plunge the world back into the 7th century...but the simplistic "they hate our freedom" explanation offered as the motivation for the 911 atrocity has always made me roll my eyes.

But I'm sure the US government loves having the truth movement around to distract people from these matters.

Last edited by CHF; 21st August 2009 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 21st August 2009, 09:46 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by CHF View Post

"Terrorists hate us because of our freedoms!"
.

Its the only thing the truth movement get right. Stupid government pretending thats the reason we get attacked.

Its like an obnoxious hot girl saying, you just hate me cos you're ugly.
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