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Tags 9/11 , aa77 , ae911truth , Craig McKee , pentagon

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Old 18th November 2017, 02:02 PM   #1
Oystein
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Craig McKee steers AE911 towards the "No 757 crashed into Pentagon" corner

For a long time, AE911Truth has "officially" been silent, or agnostic, about the Pentagon event. At some point, some years ago, Richard Gage apparently voiced criticism of no-planers, but was compelled to row back and adopt the "I don't look, I don't see, I don't want to know" position.

In the meantime, some of their past activists (e.g. David Chandler, Wayne Coste) have argued for the position that indeed a 757 crashed, while others, most notably Craig McKee, took the opposite position. McKee is an active force at AE911T, he is one of the most prolific contributors to their "News", and was co-author of technical brochures such as the "Beyond Misinfornation" garbage.


In a new development, McKee seems to gain the upper hand AND AE911Truth endorses him (tacitly so far):

Yesterday, a post on the AE911Truth Facebook site:
9/11 Free Fall Radio: Pentagon Debate
Originally Posted by AE on Facebook
In this special episode of 9/11 Free Fall, host Andy Steele referees a debate between Truth and Shadows blogger Craig McKee and official-story supporter Colin Doran on the question of what happened at the Pentagon on September 11, 2001.
You can listen to this podcast directly and also download it (with a Soundcloud account) at the link below:
http://911freefall.com/911-free-fall...entagon-debate
I have no idea who Colin Doran is. I guess someone ill prepared, relatively new to the debates.

I have yet to listen to the debate - and probably won't -, and it will be interesting how Gage's Propaganda Minister, Andy Steele, moderated, and whether he took a stand.

The comments all seem to agree that McKee won the debate with the proposition "No 757".


And this now has encouraged McKee to create a new Facebook Group called "No 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11".
First post:
Originally Posted by Craig McKee
TAKE A STAND, JOIN THE LIST!
I am compiling a list of truth activists who simply do not believe that a 757 hit the Pent...
It as 105 members after less than 24 hours - and who did McKee make an Admin: Kelly David, the Chief Operating Officer of AE911Truth! She has been a Board member since spring 2015.

Who else has signed up with McKee? Here are some names I recognize:
  • Christopher Bollyn (professional anti-semite)
  • Stuart Crosbie (just lost a debate with me on the 757 crash at Facebook, by banning me from a group )
  • Marty Beck (AE)
  • Manni Badillo (long time not seen!)
  • Bev Collins (failed MP candidate in Canada a while ago)
  • Adam Ruff (a friend of McKee at McKee's blog)
  • Sheila Casey (activist close to McKee)
  • Michael Atkinson (obsessive meme-poster on FB)
  • Adam Syed
  • Bjørn Aadnøy (AE petition signer)
  • Sandra Jelmi (long-time AE volunteer)
  • Michael Cook
  • Mike Bondi (engineer, AE contributor and signer)
A few more names I have seen before but can't place ATM.
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Old 18th November 2017, 04:40 PM   #2
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This makes perfect sense. No one is paying attention to them now so they have to diversify.

Since CIT dropped of the face of the Earth, they could bring back all their old stuff as new and bring in a new crop of rubes.
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Old 18th November 2017, 05:49 PM   #3
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Wow...this will seriously undermine their credibility. (he said with tongue in cheek)
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Old 18th November 2017, 05:54 PM   #4
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Idiots will speak idiotically loose changers/republickers/fundie religionists and related just cannot get anything straight and true for some reason I will never fathom.
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Old 18th November 2017, 06:32 PM   #5
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I suppose if no one rebutts their nonsense claims those claims will seem to have "standing"... and if they are rebutted by informed engineers and scientists... the rebuttal of their nonsense makes it seem that there is something of importance to disabuse the public about who may buy their snake oil. Of course they don't actually debate engineers and physicists... Nor will you see anyone but Tony or Gerry actually give it a try.

About a year or so ago a truther faculty member of NJIT managed to get a "debate" set up. But it was pathetic actually. One of the professors who seemed OK basically presented the NIST report.. which Tony then went on about how it was all rubbish. Prof didn't know Tony's history nor arguments and so it wasn't much of a debate... actually more of a get together for their followers and something to leverage in their marketing.

Marketing is what they do... selling themselves so they can sell themselves.
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Old 18th November 2017, 10:08 PM   #6
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Would love to hear what AE 911's resident spokesman Tony Szamboti has to say about this considering his claims of being an engineer.

I mean an engineer believing in CD is ridiculous enough, but no planers are a special sort of stupid on an entirely different level.
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Old 18th November 2017, 10:18 PM   #7
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For newbies who don't know why Oystein collects black lists of crime thinkers and what all of this is about, watch the argument here before you spend any time with the Xth-degree of meta "discussion" about it:

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I AGREE
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Old 18th November 2017, 10:53 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
For newbies who don't know why Oystein collects black lists of crime thinkers and what all of this is about, watch the argument here before you spend any time with the Xth-degree of meta "discussion" about it:

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I AGREE
How self-aggrandizing of you to think Oystein’s list are anything other than lists of fools and conmen. Methinks you’re still a little sore from the last time you were trying argue that no 575 hit the pentagon and it didn’t go so well for you here. No many people foolish enough to think that (let alone argue it), so I’m guessing there’s a high chance you made Oystein’s list.
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Old 18th November 2017, 11:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
For newbies who don't know why Oystein collects black lists of crime thinkers and what all of this is about, watch the argument here before you spend any time with the Xth-degree of meta "discussion" about it:

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I AGREE
Ce, how are shaky Craig and Aldo the buffet slayer anyway?

They kinda fell off the face of the earth after Craig and his girlfriend got a full expense paid trip to Paris.
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Old 18th November 2017, 11:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
How self-aggrandizing of you to think Oystein’s list are anything other than lists of fools and conmen. Methinks you’re still a little sore from the last time you were trying argue that no 575 hit the pentagon and it didn’t go so well for you here. No many people foolish enough to think that (let alone argue it), so I’m guessing there’s a high chance you made Oystein’s list.

I'm sure the last time I was "trying argue that no 575 hit the pentagon" you had a different user name. Care to come clean?
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Old 18th November 2017, 11:46 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Ce, how are shaky Craig and Aldo the buffet slayer anyway?

They kinda fell off the face of the earth after Craig and his girlfriend got a full expense paid trip to Paris.

I have never had any personal contact to them and would of course not forward any private insights to you or your mom. Everything they established with their low-budget investigation has been said, as people can watch in the film I've posted in #7. Not their fault at all that these ground-shaking facts never made waves. The reasons for that are closely related to why you are arguing your head off against not exactly skeptical voices about Killary topics.
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Old 19th November 2017, 01:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
For newbies who don't know why Oystein collects black lists of crime thinkers and what all of this is about, watch the argument here before you spend any time with the Xth-degree of meta "discussion" about it:

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I am not willing to waste an hour and a half on yet another truther video.
Could you please summarise the evidence and arguments presented?
Thanks.

A quick Google of CIT reveals they have split the Truther "movement", between those who believe them and those who think their ideas are so ridiculous that they must be disinfo agents trying to discredit the movement.
What's your take, CE?
BTW, you still owe me an apology.
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Old 19th November 2017, 02:51 AM   #13
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^ see this thread.
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Old 19th November 2017, 05:15 AM   #14
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Are there still morons trying to claim no airliner hit the Pentagon?

I used to ride with firefighters who were there that day, pulling pieces of airliner - and airline passengers - out of the building. Anyone who makes this "no plane" claim is deranged, trolling (for attention and/or money), or just fantastically stupid.
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Old 19th November 2017, 06:14 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
^ see this thread.
Thanks.
Page one, you post your support for CIT.
Page two, you get the spanking of your life.
Page three, the spanking continues unabated.
Page four, well, I felt sorry for you so I stopped reading.

Did you learn anything from this experience?
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Old 19th November 2017, 07:20 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
I mean an engineer believing in CD is ridiculous enough, but no planers are a special sort of stupid on an entirely different level.
No doubt, but as the numbers of marginally reasonable people in what is left of the 9/11 Truth Movement continue to decline the pool that are left have increasing majorities of zealots and unreachables. These folks used to be on the fringes but are now taking over which is why you see (it seems to me anyway) much more talk among Truthers now about no planes, Jews and even Dr. Wood's space beams seem to be making a big comeback.

This is now the pool Gage has to fleece to stay in business so he has to pander to them.
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Old 19th November 2017, 07:21 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Thanks.
Page one, you post your support for CIT.
Page two, you get the spanking of your life.
Page three, the spanking continues unabated.
Page four, well, I felt sorry for you so I stopped reading.

Did you learn anything from this experience?

You can't get around first understanding the argument before you understand the quality of counter-argument. First bunk, then debunk. If not, you tend to be impressed by loudmouthed idiots and, even worse, share that impression with the poor web which is full of it already.

As you had told me that you are unwilling to do your homework, I just should have told you to get lost instead of referring you to that thread. My fault. Sorry.
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Old 19th November 2017, 07:58 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'm sure the last time I was "trying argue that no 575 hit the pentagon" you had a different user name. Care to come clean?
Gosh, if only that very discussion were saved on some sort of publicly accessible internet forum that we could simply use software to browse and re-read!
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Old 19th November 2017, 08:07 AM   #19
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Yeah, I saw that post on the PfT Facebook page, which seems to be "The Go To Place" today for the mentally challenged since Capt' Bob's website is pretty much dead these days.

This whole "No Plane" deal has always fascinated me. Having worked in the Pentagon before and after the incident and having lost Navy shipmates and friends who were assigned to the Navy Command Center as well as being a Naval flight officer associated with aviation (both carrier-based and land-based) since the mid 1980s and having been a mile and a half away from the building (in Crystal City) on the day, there is no reason for any rational, sane, cogent, thinking, upright-walking, breathing sentient human being with two brain cells to rub together to doubt that a 757 traveling at the speed of a .45 caliber bullet slammed into the building.

Capt' Bobby's slack-jawed, vacant eyed followers and Craig and Alpo's intellectual midgets who follow them notwithstanding, the ComicCon of denial and ignorance continues unabated. Love it!
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Old 19th November 2017, 08:54 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Thanks.
Page one, you post your support for CIT.
Page two, you get the spanking of your life.
Page three, the spanking continues unabated.
Page four, well, I felt sorry for you so I stopped reading.

Did you learn anything from this experience?
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You can't get around first understanding the argument before you understand the quality of counter-argument. First bunk, then debunk. If not, you tend to be impressed by loudmouthed idiots and, even worse, share that impression with the poor web which is full of it already.

As you had told me that you are unwilling to do your homework, I just should have told you to get lost instead of referring you to that thread. My fault. Sorry.
The quality of counter-argument was obviously too much for you, and you are clearly still hurting from the spanking you received on that thread, and are taking it out on me. Understandalble, if not excusable.

Were you portraying yourself as the loud-mouthed idiot? I see a lot of foolish assertions, delivered with a leavening of scorn and condescension for those who disagree with you. Don't be so hard on yourself. You aren't an idiot.

Please quote the post where I said I was unwilling to do my homework.
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Old 19th November 2017, 09:02 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I have never had any personal contact to them and would of course not forward any private insights to you or your mom. Everything they established with their low-budget investigation has been said, as people can watch in the film I've posted in #7. Not their fault at all that these ground-shaking facts never made waves. The reasons for that are closely related to why you are arguing your head off against not exactly skeptical voices about Killary topics.
Well. They did prove the plane hit the Pentagon!

They also hounded a poor old man to his grave and got busted lying about the owner shop owners statement. So.

Say hi for 16.5!
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Old 19th November 2017, 10:01 AM   #22
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In my judgement, there are three theories in Trutherdom which, if a person believes one of them for more than 15 minutes of research or thinking, qualifies them as bat-crap crazy idiots totally beyond reach (or cynical liars):
  • "Directed Energy Weapons" crapola
  • "Nukes in the basements" holishmoliness
  • "No-plane" buffoonery
This short lists beats other silliness and idiocy such as "Jews, it's always da Jews" or "super-nano-themXte" because it jumps out so immediately that they are stupid nonsense, whereas the others take a bit more research to debunk if all you have to start with is Truther YouTubes.

Now, Craig McKee, CE, they are intelligent folks! it makes you wonder...
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Old 19th November 2017, 10:20 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
For a long time, AE911Truth has "officially" been silent, or agnostic, about the Pentagon event. At some point, some years ago, Richard Gage apparently voiced criticism of no-planers, but was compelled to row back and adopt the "I don't look, I don't see, I don't want to know" position.
I think you've got that reversed. Gage praised the CIT boys' north of the Citgo video and got a lot of criticism for it, so eventually he issued a denunciation of them and their work. However, at least at that point he was still a little wobbly:

Quote:
Legge concludes that there is prima facie evidence that “the official explanation of the event at the Pentagon is false and that a cover-up exists. He concludes as well this negative hypothesis: that there is “no proof that a 757 did not hit the Pentagon.” And, since officials are holding the cards (videos) as to what did or didn’t hit the Pentagon, Dr. Legge’s recommendation is that investigators “take care to avoid publicly asserting that the 757 did not hit the Pentagon”.
ETA: For what it's worth, I think Gage would be smarter to go back to the "big tent" approach. It's not as if associating with conmen and holocaust deniers and crazy people is going to discredit his standing in the movement; these days that's all there is to the movement.
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Old 19th November 2017, 10:29 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
In my judgement, there are three theories in Trutherdom which, if a person believes one of them for more than 15 minutes of research or thinking, qualifies them as bat-crap crazy idiots totally beyond reach (or cynical liars):
  • "Directed Energy Weapons" crapola
  • "Nukes in the basements" holishmoliness
  • "No-plane" buffoonery
This short lists beats other silliness and idiocy such as "Jews, it's always da Jews" or "super-nano-themXte" because it jumps out so immediately that they are stupid nonsense, whereas the others take a bit more research to debunk if all you have to start with is Truther YouTubes.

Now, Craig McKee, CE, they are intelligent folks! it makes you wonder...
The answer to your wondering is somewhere in the attached diagram.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1-71TzKnr7bzXU_l_pU6DCNA.jpg (76.5 KB, 27 views)
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Old 19th November 2017, 11:10 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post

As you had told me that you are unwilling to do your homework..............
I've done all the homework and seen all of CIT's arguments. As you know I was here when CIT was still posting. Their claims have no merit. This is a proven fact.
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Old 19th November 2017, 11:14 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I think you've got that reversed. Gage praised the CIT boys' north of the Citgo video and got a lot of criticism for it, so eventually he issued a denunciation of them and their work. However, at least at that point he was still a little wobbly:



ETA: For what it's worth, I think Gage would be smarter to go back to the "big tent" approach. It's not as if associating with conmen and holocaust deniers and crazy people is going to discredit his standing in the movement; these days that's all there is to the movement.
Thanks for the clarification.

Gage's tax declaration for 2016 is due (latest date every year is mid-November). Perhaps he is in financial decline? I propose he hangs his hat where his biggest donors provide hooks.
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Old 19th November 2017, 11:39 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Thanks for the clarification.

Gage's tax declaration for 2016 is due (latest date every year is mid-November). Perhaps he is in financial decline? I propose he hangs his hat where his biggest donors provide hooks.
If he's still in Idaho, he's deep in the heart of crazy.
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Old 19th November 2017, 02:20 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'm sure the last time I was "trying argue that no 575 hit the pentagon" you had a different user name. Care to come clean?

Just wanted to point out that American 77 was a B-757, not a 575.

In addition, American 77 was tracked by radar to the Pentagon where it crashed and flight data, B-757 wreckage inside and outside the Pentagon, path of destruction outside and inside the Pentagon proves the flight path of American 77 was south of the gas station. To continue, witnesses reported an airliner striking the Pentagon, not to mention that my Wing commander was inside the Pentagon when American 77 struck.

Call American Airlines and the Boeing Aircraft Company so they can confirm that American 77 crashed at the Pentagon and nowhere else. After all, conversion formulas for the FDR data of American 77 were provided that pertained ONLY to American 77 and no other aircraft.

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Old 19th November 2017, 02:38 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Just wanted to point out that American 77 was a B-757, not a 575.

In addition, American 77 was tracked by radar to the Pentagon where it crashed and flight data, B-757 wreckage inside and outside the Pentagon, path of destruction outside and inside the Pentagon proves the flight path of American 77 was south of the gas station. To continue, witnesses reported an airliner striking the Pentagon, not to mention that my Wing commander was inside the Pentagon when American 77 struck.

Call American Airlines and the Boeing Aircraft Company so they can confirm that American 77 crashed at the Pentagon and nowhere else. After all, conversion formulas for the FDR data of American 77 were provided that pertained ONLY to American 77 and no other aircraft.
In addition there were bodies recovered, DNA linked to passengers on the flight.
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Old 19th November 2017, 05:44 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by skyeagle409 View Post
Just wanted to point out that American 77 was a B-757, not a 575.

In addition, American 77 was tracked by radar to the Pentagon where it crashed and flight data, B-757 wreckage inside and outside the Pentagon, path of destruction outside and inside the Pentagon proves the flight path of American 77 was south of the gas station. To continue, witnesses reported an airliner striking the Pentagon, not to mention that my Wing commander was inside the Pentagon when American 77 struck.

Call American Airlines and the Boeing Aircraft Company so they can confirm that American 77 crashed at the Pentagon and nowhere else. After all, conversion formulas for the FDR data of American 77 were provided that pertained ONLY to American 77 and no other aircraft.
The black box was even deciphered by a truther, who also validated the flight path.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=66047
ETA: relevant thread link
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Old 19th November 2017, 06:07 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Thanks for the clarification.

Gage's tax declaration for 2016 is due (latest date every year is mid-November). Perhaps he is in financial decline? I propose he hangs his hat where his biggest donors provide hooks.
Didn't he latch on to a sugar mama who had a mansion on a lake in Idaho?
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Old 19th November 2017, 09:16 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
For newbies who don't know why Oystein collects black lists of crime thinkers and what all of this is about, watch the argument here before you spend any time with the Xth-degree of meta "discussion" about it:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
CIT has no argument, they made up lies dumber than dirt, based on their collective ignorance.

The liars of CIT, the dumbest investigators in history. It would be hard to find people dumber than CIT on 9/11 issues.

The FDR, RADAR, witnesses, DNA all prove it was Flight 77. CIT are liars, or superior idiots. You can pick. Paik is pointing to the south course as found in the FDR, and RADAR. Watergate was solved in what, less than a year. 9/11 truth lies were exposed on 9/11. A movement stillborn on 9/11.

CIT never had any facts, evidence, or knowledge useful to figure out 9/11. They spread lies, possibly unknowingly due to massive, overwhelming and pervasive ignorance on all topics need to make a rational conclusion on 9/11.
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Old 20th November 2017, 12:47 AM   #33
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I remember Gage's debate with Chris Mohr he got Gage to comment on the Pentagon event, Gage ended up commenting along the lines of 'no plane hit the Pentagon'.
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Old 20th November 2017, 03:15 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
The black box was even deciphered by a truther, who also validated the flight path.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ad.php?t=66047
ETA: relevant thread link
Isn't that twice the same link?
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Old 20th November 2017, 03:48 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Didn't he latch on to a sugar mama who had a mansion on a lake in Idaho?
I know he latched onto a mama in Idaho. I have no information that she sugared him?
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Old 20th November 2017, 03:56 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
...
And this now has encouraged McKee to create a new Facebook Group called "No 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11".
...
It as 105 members after less than 24 hours - and who did McKee make an Admin: Kelly David, the Chief Operating Officer of AE911Truth! She has been a Board member since spring 2015.
...
I either missed it earlier, or they added a Group Description. An excerpt:
Quote:
As creators of this group, we are on the record as stating that a large airliner approached the building but did not hit, while explosives were used to create internal damage. But we understand that some in the group believe other things. Some think a missile hit, some believe a drone or military plane was involved, and others believe other permutations. We don’t want to stop you from believing what you wish, but the focus is on the impossibility of a large plane impact. When we go into the other things, we split into different camps and become weaker.

To sum up, this group is about common ground and showing the official claims to be false. –Craig McKee & Kelly David
This is relevant because Kelly David, as Board member of AE911Truth, surely represents AE911Truth, especially seeing that this group was borne out of an AE911truth acttivity.

AE911truth supports the moronic "Fly-over" theory!

I think their 2900+ A&E signatories ought to get notified of this and given a chance to distance themselves and revoke their signature!
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Old 20th November 2017, 04:09 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
...I have yet to listen to the debate - and probably won't -, and it will be interesting how Gage's Propaganda Minister, Andy Steele, moderated, and whether he took a stand.
...
And this now has encouraged McKee to create a new Facebook Group called "No 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11".
...
It as 105 members after less than 24 hours ...
About 24 hours later than that, the group had 168 members, and right now stands at 188.

Among those who were added yesterday or today, I recognize two AE911T actividsts:
  • Andy Steele - the host of the debate I talked of in the OP - so now we know where he stands!
  • Greg Hill - his profile photo show him arm-in-arm with Gage, and sports the AE van that he toured with to promote woo.
Oh by the way, some user accused me of putting together "black lists". Hahaha! Shilliness! The one who puts together this particular black list is of course not me but Craig McKee! I am merely reporting on his black list.
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Old 20th November 2017, 06:29 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I have never had any personal contact to them and would of course not forward any private insights to you or your mom. Everything they established with their low-budget investigation has been said, as people can watch in the film I've posted in #7. Not their fault at all that these ground-shaking facts never made waves. The reasons for that are closely related to why you are arguing your head off against not exactly skeptical voices about Killary topics.
Not really ground-shaking facts if they didn't make waves.
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Old 20th November 2017, 08:58 AM   #39
Oystein
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
... these ground-shaking facts never made waves. The reasons for that are closely related to why you are arguing your head off against not exactly skeptical voices about Killary topics.
You know what?
I could believe that Mrs. Clinton is a terrible person and full of evil scandals. I could even find what you say about her, and the sources you link to, at least initially credible and worth my time looking into, if it weren't for two facts about you:

a. You juvenily refer to her as "Killary"
b. You claim you believe in the darndest, most idiotic crap ever - the CIT story

It's almost as if you were here to assign criticism of Clinton to the loony corner.
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Old 20th November 2017, 04:40 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
For newbies who don't know why Oystein collects black lists of crime thinkers and what all of this is about, watch the argument here before you spend any time with the Xth-degree of meta "discussion" about it:
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Strange --
The link to your video appears to be corrupted because the forum video
viewbox expands with empty content.
The video may be viewed by the curious by inserting the alphanumeric string youtube v=_HlUmmPBoLg into your browser. Fonebone
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