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Old 27th June 2020, 10:25 AM   #41
Carrot Flower King
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
We ended up with an incompetent liar who's letting vast numbers of people die (while massaging the figures)*, horrifically managing a pandemic, is refusing to release a report on Russian inteference in national issues, is blazing headling into a brexit that's going to heavily consider to the worst recession in the country for 300 years after having removed from the process any reporting obligations.

Oh, and he hid in a fridge.

Did you read his school report?

Still think you made the right choice?


*More lies, of course.
Did you see the part about Labour having no chance of winning in this constituency?

I'm well aware of what Johnson is, so don't try pinning that on me.

Yes, I made the right choice, as this seat has been Liberal or LD in the recent past, but Clegg stuffed that up.

I repeat Labour had naff all chance of winning here. That and my long-standing (since the '80s) negative opinion of either of the Corbyn brothers (so don't try the meejah propaganda line either), not to mention my more recent one of the Lab PPC here.

I'd've voted Green sooner, and I have a number of problems with them.

Last edited by Carrot Flower King; 27th June 2020 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 27th June 2020, 10:38 AM   #42
3point14
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Did you see the part about Labour having no chance of winning in this constituency?

I'm well aware of what Johnson is, so don't try pinning that on me.

Yes, I made the right choice, as this seat has been Liberal or LD in the recent past, but Clegg stuffed that up.

I repeat Labour had naff all chance of winning here. That and my long-standing (since the '80s) negative opinion of either of the Corbyn brothers (so don't try the meejah propaganda line either), not to mention my more recent one of the Lab PPC here.

I'd've voted Green sooner, and I have a number of problems with them.

Crikey.
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Old 28th June 2020, 03:46 AM   #43
Carrot Flower King
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Meaning what exactly?
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Old 28th June 2020, 04:08 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Crikey.
Under the current voting system it is often a case in closely contested areas of voting for who you dislike the least as opposed to whom you support.

In other areas, as many people point out, any inanimate object with the right colour rosette will get elected.

I think we are moving away from a football style loyalty to political parties at election time, and recognising the futility of voting for a candidate who has no chance we look for other ways to send a message.

I don't think my politics have changed much since I have been able to vote yet I have voted for 3 political parties, independents and have spoiled my vote. Who know at some point in the future there might be an occasion when I would vote Tory. Senility perhaps.
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Old 28th June 2020, 04:18 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Under the current voting system it is often a case in closely contested areas of voting for who you dislike the least as opposed to whom you support.

In other areas, as many people point out, any inanimate object with the right colour rosette will get elected.

I think we are moving away from a football style loyalty to political parties at election time, and recognising the futility of voting for a candidate who has no chance we look for other ways to send a message.

I don't think my politics have changed much since I have been able to vote yet I have voted for 3 political parties, independents and have spoiled my vote. Who know at some point in the future there might be an occasion when I would vote Tory. Senility perhaps.
I always vote for the one I dislike least, though in a closer fought area I might vote for one I dislike a bit more to keep out the one I dislike most.
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:33 AM   #46
Carrot Flower King
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Crikey.
Allow me to expand/explain further:

I live and vote in Berwick-upon-Tweed constituency, which went to the Tories in 2015, having been represented by Libs/LD (well, Alan Beith) for the longest time before. Labour has been a distant third for ever - this isn't Wansbeck or Blyth Valley. LD was the best way of Not Getting A Tory.

Clegg shafted us in 2010, by following his ego into coalition, rather than any other form of arrangement. I have a postal vote, so at the point I voted that year no indication had been given that the LDs would prop up the Tories.

Not enough folk will ever vote Labour to make a Labour vote a worthwhile way of Not Getting A Tory. FPTP is a sod for that sort of thing.

The Labour PPC for some years is/was my local county councillor, who I have gradually learned is not always a straightforward as he makes out, losing the trust of a number of folk locally.

Corbyn Bros: Piers and his eejit weather ideas I have long known about and thought him a waste of space; Jeremy, well, what can I say? I moved on the fringes of some of those lefty circles in the '80s as he first became an MP, and while the whole bunch of them were notable for arguments about ideological purity rather than anything resembling competence, he always came across as especially contrary and avoiding being seen as competent.

When Corbyn, J, became leader of Labour I predicted a total balls up, and we got it: imagine a Dennis Healey, Robin Cook, Nye Bevan, any of the heavy-weight bruisers of the past, even Blair or Brown, opposing May or Johnson and think of the mess they would have made of them. What did Corbyn do? Naff all, as expected.

Even folk of a lefty stance are not required to believe in Corbyn, especially as some of us know too much.

The anti-semitism debacle was also pretty predictable, as that strain has been around in some sections of left wing politics (and other parts of the political spectrum too) as far back as I can recall.
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Old 28th June 2020, 01:42 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Carrot Flower King View Post
Allow me to expand/explain further:

I live and vote in Berwick-upon-Tweed constituency, which went to the Tories in 2015, having been represented by Libs/LD (well, Alan Beith) for the longest time before. Labour has been a distant third for ever - this isn't Wansbeck or Blyth Valley. LD was the best way of Not Getting A Tory.

Clegg shafted us in 2010, by following his ego into coalition, rather than any other form of arrangement. I have a postal vote, so at the point I voted that year no indication had been given that the LDs would prop up the Tories.

Not enough folk will ever vote Labour to make a Labour vote a worthwhile way of Not Getting A Tory. FPTP is a sod for that sort of thing.

The Labour PPC for some years is/was my local county councillor, who I have gradually learned is not always a straightforward as he makes out, losing the trust of a number of folk locally.

Corbyn Bros: Piers and his eejit weather ideas I have long known about and thought him a waste of space; Jeremy, well, what can I say? I moved on the fringes of some of those lefty circles in the '80s as he first became an MP, and while the whole bunch of them were notable for arguments about ideological purity rather than anything resembling competence, he always came across as especially contrary and avoiding being seen as competent.

When Corbyn, J, became leader of Labour I predicted a total balls up, and we got it: imagine a Dennis Healey, Robin Cook, Nye Bevan, any of the heavy-weight bruisers of the past, even Blair or Brown, opposing May or Johnson and think of the mess they would have made of them. What did Corbyn do? Naff all, as expected.

Even folk of a lefty stance are not required to believe in Corbyn, especially as some of us know too much.

The anti-semitism debacle was also pretty predictable, as that strain has been around in some sections of left wing politics (and other parts of the political spectrum too) as far back as I can recall.
Your descriptions tally with what The Don has said as a long-time Labour member and supporter.

For example:

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Ah, but that's quite different.

In his case it was a principled stand against the corrosive neo-liberalism which was an intrinsic part of New Labour and which was threatening the establishing of a workers' utopia in the UK.

In the case of the current set of "rebels", these are the same neo-liberals and they are fighting a desperate rearguard action against the workers' utopia which will be the inevitable triumph of a Labour-led Brexit.



There weren't many Labour Party members in this part of rural Monmouthshire but I knew a dozen or so. Only one remains a member in the Corbyn age, the rest of us have given up on the party which has, in effect, left us.
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Old 29th June 2020, 09:54 PM   #48
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Rebecca Long-Bailey responds:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ca-long-bailey
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Old 30th June 2020, 03:47 AM   #49
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
And responds in an entirely predictable way: "OK, maybe I was wrong, but I was also right, and I know the allegation about the Israeli spies is false, but I'm going to repeat it anyway, because I'm really not antisemitic, but those Israelis are bastards, right?"

Good riddance to her. I really hope Starmer is able to continue reforming his party. God knows they need it.
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Old 30th June 2020, 03:56 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
And responds in an entirely predictable way: "OK, maybe I was wrong, but I was also right, and I know the allegation about the Israeli spies is false, but I'm going to repeat it anyway, because I'm really not antisemitic, but those Israelis are bastards, right?"
Wow.
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Old 30th June 2020, 06:07 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
And responds in an entirely predictable way: "OK, maybe I was wrong, but I was also right, and I know the allegation about the Israeli spies is false, but I'm going to repeat it anyway, because I'm really not antisemitic, but those Israelis are bastards, right?"

Good riddance to her. I really hope Starmer is able to continue reforming his party. God knows they need it.
If she'd omitted the 'allergations have been raised' paragraph I'd have thought, fair enough. She takes responsibility but wants to explain herself. But yeah, repeating it in a "some people are saying" way, is really stupid and unhelpful.
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Old 30th June 2020, 08:40 AM   #52
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As a member of the labour party I can only say thank goodness that awful woman is gone. I'm on the left hand side of labour politically but there is a big difference between agreeing with someone politically and wanting them to have a modicum of power. I voted for Starmer not because he was closest to me politically but because he 1. Wasn't a continuity Corbyn candidate 2. Has a chance of reforming the party and getting elected and 3. Wasn't that bloody frightful Wrong-Daily. I didnt mind Nandy (she got my 2and choice vote afterall) but I don't think she had a hope in hell of winning.

The problem with Corbyn et al wasn't the politics, a number of people were sympathetic to or in favour of the policies, but electibility. We should not go back to the horrifying soft tory days of blair, but there is nothing wrong with moderation to win votes.

Frankly it doesn't surprise me that the dogwhistle antisemitic stuff about israel is still being bandied about by some of the softer headed of the party. No one sane will accuse you of anti semitism if you just criticize israel for things they actually have done, but propagating a lie that tars the Israelis as basically psychopathic then yes, yes you do look anti semitic.
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Old 1st July 2020, 04:02 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
If she'd omitted the 'allergations have been raised' paragraph I'd have thought, fair enough. She takes responsibility but wants to explain herself. But yeah, repeating it in a "some people are saying" way, is really stupid and unhelpful.
Yeah, that was the part that did it for me. Obviously, she would want to explain and put her side of it, but repeating the slur was inexcusable, and undermined everything else she said. Quite clearly, she isn't sorry at all about the anti-semitism: she's just sorry she lost her job.
As MarkCorrigan says, Labour is much better off without Corbyn and his clique. Labour was unelectable, unrepresentative of the views of the public they claimed to be representing, and the anti-semitism was clear and undeniable. I'm not saying Corbyn himself was, but his inaction over this issue led to enormous damage.
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