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Tags Minneapolis incidents , police incidents , police misconduct charges

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Old 9th June 2020, 08:30 AM   #241
Bob001
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Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd.
Quote:
He then added: "If all people say my client didn't intercede, if the public was there and they're in uproar about this, they didn't intercede either," Gray said.
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:31 AM   #242
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"Listen no time travelers from the future came back to prevent my client from doing what he was doing, so seriously how bad could the consequences really be?"
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:33 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Unless you're indigenous, then the cops might drop you on the edge of town to freeze to death. Nothing quite like a little walk in the moonlight in the warm Saskatchewan winters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saskatoon_freezing_deaths
How many of those isolated events will you find before you establish a pattern, here?

You're just being a contrarian. I'm sure whatever country I named you'd find some reason to post something like this, as if my comment meant that there are no issues in Canada whatsoever. In this respect now you seem to just be a cynic. If you think it sucks everywhere, then it would seem to indicate that trying to eliminate these issues is pointless, and I don't believe that.
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:33 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Two cars for a dispute?
A dispute over $20 and the suspect may be drunk or under the influence.

Sending more than one car seems to be standard practice. The 911 operator said that squads would be on the way.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/mi...lls/index.html

That such things are routine is evidence that the police are overfunded.
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:39 AM   #245
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Perhaps - and I'm just spitballing here - they thought that the man who was killing someone might kill them, too?
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:42 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks
Fairly certain we already established that some tried upthread.
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Old 9th June 2020, 08:43 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by StillSleepy View Post
Fairly certain we already established that some tried upthread.
Indeed. It's a strange play given that the now infamous video is basically 8 minutes of the crowd begging for Floyd's life.
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Old 9th June 2020, 09:35 AM   #248
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Portland, Maine police officer shows up at journalists house, threatens arrest because they don't like his tweets about police.

https://twitter.com/c_milneil/status...48066307145729
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Old 9th June 2020, 09:42 AM   #249
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Ohio National Guard Member Sent Home for White Supremacist Views Is Likely a Fascist YouTuber

https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/...cist-youtuber/

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“Well lads it’s time, you will hear of me either tonight or tomorrow in the news,” a June 2 message on a Telegram channel linked to his YouTube presence stated. He posted an acronym coined by white supremacists for “race and holy war.”

“They activated my unit and we’re getting real ammunition to shoot and kill,” he wrote. “Rahowa.”
Seems like a near miss with an armed fascist being deployed to the streets of DC.
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Old 9th June 2020, 09:44 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks
Yeah, I'm sure THAT would have ended well. Instead of one dead person, we'd have three or four.
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Old 9th June 2020, 09:54 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
Yeah, I'm sure THAT would have ended well. Instead of one dead person, we'd have three or four.
No, the cops carry far more than three or four bullets.
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Old 9th June 2020, 09:57 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
*Start laughing, doesn't stop for several hours*

I have had 4 this year just for DUI checkpoints.
I've had my license for 30 years. I've been stopped exactly 0 times by the police.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:00 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Police often want to check out someone that fits their stereotype of a criminal, and invent a pretext for interrogation.

I get pulled over maybe once a week or so, especially late at night and on weekends. Cops see my work truck out after hours, and assume I've been at the bar for hours and am reeling pickled. ...snip...
Thanks to all who answered, it seems rather strange to me, I'm very suprised there are the resources available to "micro manage" travel policing in such a way.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:02 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
I've had my license for 30 years. I've been stopped exactly 0 times by the police.
Had mine for 17, same number of stops.

I usually go a bit higher than the limit on highways, but even when cops radar me they don't bother with me. They want to catch the bigger fish.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:25 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Did you have any interest in continuing our debate from before the weekend? It's fine with me if you wanna drop it, I merely wanted to ask in case it got lost/forgotten over the weekend. Since the thread has been continued, I thought I'd help by linking to where we were:
*Shrug* I kind of feel like we've reached an impasse. Your last comment there..
{quote]Yeah, I'm calling this as an exceptional case of BS both sidesism. "But they would do it too!" is always an equally (in)valid response that is made to deflect from actual problems. Like I said, this is yet another example of your willful ignorance.[/quote]
... leads me to believe that there's not a lot of point to continued discussion on the topic of human behavior, cognitive biases, and tribal instinct.

If you're interested in continuing, I recommend reading this article as a started, and consider checking out some of the other articles and podcasts on that site.

The Illusion of Asymmetric Insight
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:27 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
You may be right that people should not hate the police so much, but last I knew, being a policeman was a choice people make, and not a condition of their existence as race and ethnicity are. As such, even if you are right that we shouldn't hate cops, it's not hating "peoples," and it's not the same thing.
What kind of characteristics do you feel fall into the heading of "choice"? Does religion?
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:29 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Are you aware that this oft-referenced concept is a minor footnote in a very large work that actually advocates tolerance as a general principle?
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:29 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
What kind of characteristics do you feel fall into the heading of "choice"?
*Very slowly* "Things you choose to do."

Quote:
Does religion?
Yes. Why wouldn't it?
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:30 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If I knew a grocery store would never have cops in it, I would only shop there.
So... admitted bigotry?
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:30 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It's as if the police are announcing to the public that they operate like organized crime. "Nice shop you have there, it'd be a shame if anything happened to it..."
As long as they don't use the words "quid pro quo", it's a perfect conversation.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:31 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
So... admitted bigotry?
Again we've had the "It's bigoted to be bigots of bigots" discussion already. Stop pretending we haven't even if you disagree with it.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:32 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
How come they are so common?
And while we're at it, why are broken tail lights so common? They crop up a lot in stories about police stops.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:32 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Thanks to all who answered, it seems rather strange to me, I'm very suprised there are the resources available to "micro manage" travel policing in such a way.
Those SUVs and helicopters don't pay for themselves. Citations are the bread and butter of a department. An occasional asset seizure is nice, too.

Another reason to break up departments. Take traffic enforcement revenue away and it becomes a bit easier to make the investigations division justify its existence on merit.

We can instead consider traffic ticket revenue to be in the transportation budget and fix more potholes.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:33 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Thanks to all who answered, it seems rather strange to me, I'm very suprised there are the resources available to "micro manage" travel policing in such a way.
Perhaps because many Americans are highly mobile, and drive everywhere, the police focus their resources more on the vehicle operator than the pedestrian?
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:36 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Perhaps because many Americans are highly mobile, and drive everywhere, the police focus their resources more on the vehicle operator than the pedestrian?
Indeed.

In big cities, the push for increased policing was through stop and frisk. Outside of the cities, it's not as practical to hassle people on foot. Initiating traffic stops is the prime way for police to intrude on citizens about their business in public.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:38 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
And while we're at it, why are broken tail lights so common? They crop up a lot in stories about police stops.
"I pulled you over because of your broken tail light"

"Huh? My taillight is fine"

"So it is. My bad. Drivers licence, registration and insurance cards please. Now. Mind if I look inside? Unless you have something to hide, of course. Is that pot I smell?"

Oh yeah. Been through it.

Eta: also gives a pretext to run the license and find out if there are any outstanding warrants, or no seat belt, or overdue inspection, or any other violations the cop can think of.
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Last edited by Thermal; 9th June 2020 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:40 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Those SUVs and helicopters don't pay for themselves. Citations are the bread and butter of a department. An occasional asset seizure is nice, too.

Another reason to break up departments. Take traffic enforcement revenue away and it becomes a bit easier to make the investigations division justify its existence on merit.

We can instead consider traffic ticket revenue to be in the transportation budget and fix more potholes.
Public money is fungible. If DOT money is coming from citations, that means general funds can be diverted to something else. So long as money from citations enter the municipal budget, there will be an incentive to act like parasites.

I grant that removing the direct link between police citations and police budgets would probably help some, but I think the problem would still exist to some lesser extent.

I still suspect the best solution would be to essentially waste the money. Send every citizen a check every year that disburses the money. Even better, have it deducted from their end of year taxes so people hardly even notice it. I would assume it's a nominal value once cut up into so many pieces, so nobody is going to be driven to maximize such money.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:48 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Those SUVs and helicopters don't pay for themselves. Citations are the bread and butter of a department. An occasional asset seizure is nice, too.

Another reason to break up departments. Take traffic enforcement revenue away and it becomes a bit easier to make the investigations division justify its existence on merit.

We can instead consider traffic ticket revenue to be in the transportation budget and fix more potholes.
In the UK fines go through the court in to the general fund, they aren't retained by the police.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:55 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
In the UK fines go through the court in to the general fund, they aren't retained by the police.
Same in Norway.

And most other civilized countries, I would bet.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:58 AM   #270
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In America we're lucky if the funds don't go to the individual cop that pulls you over.
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:03 AM   #271
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Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense.
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:04 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense.
Yeah we always make sure to make note of people's criminal records at their funerals.
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:05 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah we always make sure to make note of people's criminal records at their funerals.
I'm not sure suspicion of something goes on your criminal record.
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:07 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Cop defense lawyer claims that the public should have intervened to save George Floyd.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...kly-backtracks
Wait a second - he's essentially saying the public had a duty to riot against the police officers at the scene!?
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:07 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense.

Assuming the funeral was, as statistically expected, a Christian ritual, I'm curious as to how you've ascertained the state of Floyd's salvation.
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:09 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Wait a second - he's essentially saying the public had a duty to riot against the police officers at the scene!?
No he's essentially saying that no matter what happened the cop was right and the public is wrong.
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:15 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Public money is fungible. If DOT money is coming from citations, that means general funds can be diverted to something else. So long as money from citations enter the municipal budget, there will be an incentive to act like parasites.

I grant that removing the direct link between police citations and police budgets would probably help some, but I think the problem would still exist to some lesser extent.

I still suspect the best solution would be to essentially waste the money. Send every citizen a check every year that disburses the money. Even better, have it deducted from their end of year taxes so people hardly even notice it. I would assume it's a nominal value once cut up into so many pieces, so nobody is going to be driven to maximize such money.
Disbursement, as you suggest, or at least collection at the federal level. Even collection at the state level would be problematic.

I live in a tourist/snowbird town. Police here do not generally ticket for minor or made-up infractions. I'm sure there is guidance and pressure from local government not to upset the visitors.
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:15 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Seeing a clip of the funeral, there's a giant painting of Floyd as an angel. Granted, the intention may be figurative, but he was being arrested for trying to pass counterfeit money. Not exactly an angel, in that sense.
To quote Mark Twain as to proper behavior at a funeral:
"Listen, with as intense an expression of attention as you can command, to the official statement of the character and history of the person in whose honor the entertainment is given; and if these statistics should seem to fail to tally with the facts, in places, do not nudge your neighbor, or press your foot upon his toes, ..."

Frankly I've never attended a funeral that failed to "round up" the positive traits of the deceased and ignore the negative ones; I would expect no less for Floyd.

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Old 9th June 2020, 11:55 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
How come they are so common?
Traffic enforcement is one of the major jobs of most police forces, and in many cases that's their rationale for existing. This is quite apart from the negative aspects of this, and the setting up of speed trap towns. On the positive side, this is what cops do most of the time, and when they do it right, all the better.

Of course that's a kind of rose-colored view of it, omitting the many times and instances where traffic stops are used as an excuse for harassment and illegal search and (occasionally, if you're black) summary murder.
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Old 9th June 2020, 12:01 PM   #280
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Keir Starmer tweeted about Parliament holding a one minute silence for George Floyd and what a catalyst for change this is.

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/sta...01447704530946

I looked up the Inquest website about deaths in police custody in the UK and whilst Starmer was head of the CPS, there were approximately 177 deaths in custody. Obviously, none of them were at catalyst for change.

Floyd's death does appear to be a tipping point, where change will happen. I just hope it goes beyond gestures such as taking down status and not showing "Little Britain" on BBC and Netflix.
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