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Old 26th June 2020, 01:01 PM   #1201
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
However:

"I have always thought `Dixie’ one of the best tunes I have ever heard. Our adversaries over the way attempted to appropriate it, but I insisted yesterday that we fairly captured it. [Applause.] I presented the question to the Attorney General, and he gave it as his legal opinion that it is our lawful prize. [Laughter and applause.] I now request the band to favor me with its performance.”

--Abraham Lincoln


My preferred lyrics:

Away down South in the land of traitors,
Rattlesnakes and alligators,
Right away, come away, right away, come away.
Where cotton's king and men are chattels,
Union boys will win the battles,
Right away, come away, right away, come away.

Then we'll all go down to Dixie,
Away, away,
Each Dixie boy must understand,
That he must mind his Uncle Sam,
Away, away,
And we'll all go down to Dixie.
Away, away,
And we'll all go down to Dixie.
That one came up in a youtube mix once. (Yeah, my musical tastes aren't exactly modern.)
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Old 26th June 2020, 01:06 PM   #1202
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Could any of the more nonsensical statue toppings have been perpetrated by right-wing groups in order to advance the narrative that BLM types etc. are ignorant and out of control?

Off-topic, in the documentary "The Control Room," an Al-Jazeera producer makes a strong case that the toppling of a Saddam statue in Baghdad was absolutely a PR stunt orchestrated by the U.S. Nothing spontaneous about it, just a piece of propaganda. The "protesters" had the wrong accents, erected an outdated flag, were (IIRC) using outdated currency and were filmed in a way meant to overstate the size of the crowd, its motives and the spontaneous nature of the act.

Really excellent flick IMO.
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Old 26th June 2020, 01:21 PM   #1203
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Could any of the more nonsensical statue toppings have been perpetrated by right-wing groups in order to advance the narrative that BLM types etc. are ignorant and out of control?
None of the statues were toppled clandestinely, that I am aware of. All the ones I know of, including the recent Wisconsin ones, were done by angry mobs.

I saw a quote in one article saying that they pulled down "Forward" because the state wasn't really going forward, so the statue had to come down because...............I don't temember the exact words. It was kind of incoherent.

Quote:
Off-topic, in the documentary "The Control Room," an Al-Jazeera producer makes a strong case that the toppling of a Saddam statue in Baghdad was absolutely a PR stunt orchestrated by the U.S. Nothing spontaneous about it, just a piece of propaganda. The "protesters" had the wrong accents, erected an outdated flag, were (IIRC) using outdated currency and were filmed in a way meant to overstate the size of the crowd, its motives and the spontaneous nature of the act.

Really excellent flick IMO.
That's kind of interesting, but there's really no doubt that the US was involved. If I recall right, they hooked the chains to a Humvee to bring it down. I'm sure there were plenty of Iraqi people willing to assist and cheer, though.

As for "wrong accents", I wonder what accents there were. I know Iraq has a lot of ethnic groups. Do they have different accents? I know that Saddam's popularity varied widely among ethnic groups. One thing I'm absolutely certain of is that the Us did not load up a bunch of Bradleys with Arabic actors waving old Iraqi money in order to stage the stunt.

I'm equally certain that the right wing didn't infiltrate BLM demonstrations and topple statues for propaganda purposes.
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Old 26th June 2020, 02:25 PM   #1204
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
As for "wrong accents", I wonder what accents there were. I know Iraq has a lot of ethnic groups. Do they have different accents? I know that Saddam's popularity varied widely among ethnic groups. One thing I'm absolutely certain of is that the Us did not load up a bunch of Bradleys with Arabic actors waving old Iraqi money in order to stage the stunt.
IIRC correctly, yes, there are different Iraqi accents, and the producer criticizing the event said they were not from the city. And as to your certainty, what makes you so certain? There were actually very few people in the frame; just a few guys, which makes it more feasible that the scene was staged indicating that the scene was staged. IIRC the statue-puller-downers inserted a U.S. flag, but that was taken down and an Iraqi flag put up. But it was an odd choice of flag according to the Al-Jazeera producer, some rare out-of-date item and not one that really fit into the "spontaneous" narrative. Yes, the producer seemed somewhat conspiracy-minded, cynical, but not conspicuously kookie. The only reason I bring it up, since it's off-topic, is that staging a snippet of video that will be played over and over again without much context is not all that difficult.

I'll look for a clip.
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I'm equally certain that the right wing didn't infiltrate BLM demonstrations and topple statues for propaganda purposes.
Again ... you're certain? Why? I'm not arguing that my speculation is correct, but I don't see why something like that couldn't happen. False flags are a thing, aren't they? Stunts are meant to be manipulative ... that's what makes them stunts.
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Old 26th June 2020, 02:39 PM   #1205
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Originally Posted by Minoosh;13138637I
And as to your certainty, what makes you so certain? There were actually very few people in the frame
I just watchied it on youtube. There were at least 150. And why am I so certain? The same reason every other conspiracy theory falls apart. It would be too complex to manage.

I think it's entirely possible that the US soldiers taking down the statue spread the word. It was very definitely a US operation. It wasn't even a Humvee. It was some sort of small armored vehicle that pulled it down, with US soldiers attaching the chains.

Quote:
Again ... you're certain? Why? I'm not arguing that my speculation is correct, but I don't see why something like that couldn't happen. False flags are a thing, aren't they? Stunts are meant to be manipulative ... that's what makes them stunts.
False flags are a very rare thing. Not completely unknown, but extremely rare. Look right here on this thread for a moment. You will see lots of people cheering on that destruction. I'm pretty sure that the people in the angry mobs were perfectly capable of thinking it was a good idea, although I would like to talk to the people who pulled down Colonel Heg. I saw the explanation about "Forward", but I haven't see anyone defend pulling down Heg.

I think the answer is "old white guy must be bad" mixed with "pulling down statues is fun."
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Old 26th June 2020, 02:53 PM   #1206
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Of course I'm misremembering a few things. These are YouTube videos with slightly different emphases. One obvious problem is how media packs are super-interested in footage that can be played over and over again with commentators offering spirited narration on what it all means. It really doesn't have much to do with the topic of Confederate monuments, but it does speak to the ease of manipulating media events. To re-iterate, I don't know what's to stop fake "BLM" or "antifa" groups from attacking some popular monument and disseminating it on social media as an example of protests getting out of hand. IMO it's not only quite possible but also potentially inevitable.

Saddam Statue Media Hoax

The Toppling: How the Media Created the Iconic Fall of Saddam's Statue

ETA: Just saw your reply; thanks for looking it up. I don't know how rare false flags are. I'm just urging people to be skeptical of video from events that may be more staged than spontaneous. We know the pitfalls, but what we "see with our own eyes" does still reinforce confirmation bias IMO.

ETA2: And it's not like this concept is so farfetched at the moment. Right-wing groups have been been provoking violence in order to blame left-wing groups.

Last edited by Minoosh; 26th June 2020 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 26th June 2020, 02:58 PM   #1207
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
False flags are a very rare thing. Not completely unknown, but extremely rare.
I'm not talking about statues, but we can't really know how rare or common false flag things are. This is because we can't know how many are not reported (for any possible reason) and we can't know how many false flags were so successful that they remain being regarded widely, or universally, as authentic.
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Old 26th June 2020, 03:35 PM   #1208
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The guy who wrote the song "Dixie" wrote it before Abe Lincoln was elected and....here's the thing.....he didn't make up the name for the territory. That was already in use. He called the song "Dixie" (Or was the actual title "I wish I was in Dixie"?) because the place that it referred to was already called "Dixie". Mason and Dixon drew their line even before there was a USA, much less a CSA.

Oh, but........I don't know exactly what the response will be, but there will be some reason that just because ......IT"S RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But if we're banning racist names, can we ban anything with "Alabama" in the name? Including Alabama. Just erase the whole damned state. Who would miss it?
Yes, but we know that the Mason Dixon line, though it long predated the Civil War, became the dividing line between free and slave states, and most who aren't into parsing things down the last atom would likely acknowledge that Dixie became synonymous with slave territory, and later with segregation. A "Dixiecrat" for example, was more than just a former Southern Democrat. Now granted, it's come also at times, just to mean the South and as such it refers to southern things which may or may not relate directly to slavery and race, such as "Dixieland Jazz" or the Dixie Chicks, or Winn-Dixie supermarkets, but if some people find their names carry uncomfortable connotations, who are we to say they shouldn't?

Citing the song "Dixie" might not be the wisest choice here, with its equivocal history as a blackface minstrel song that became a virtual anthem of the Confederacy.

The fact that certain things predate the Civil War is undoubtedly true, but one of the things that predates it is slavery and racial bigotry. The Confederacy may be the most visible sore on the body politic, but it is certainly not the only one.
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Old 26th June 2020, 03:43 PM   #1209
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
but if some people find their names carry uncomfortable connotations, who are we to say they shouldn't?
Yeah, all those people named Karen shoulda known better, amirite?
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Old 26th June 2020, 03:48 PM   #1210
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Yes, but we know that the Mason Dixon line, though it long predated the Civil War, became the dividing line between free and slave states, and most who aren't into parsing things down the last atom would likely acknowledge that Dixie became synonymous with slave territory, and later with segregation. A "Dixiecrat" for example, was more than just a former Southern Democrat. Now granted, it's come also at times, just to mean the South and as such it refers to southern things which may or may not relate directly to slavery and race, such as "Dixieland Jazz" or the Dixie Chicks, or Winn-Dixie supermarkets, but if some people find their names carry uncomfortable connotations, who are we to say they shouldn't?

Citing the song "Dixie" might not be the wisest choice here, with its equivocal history as a blackface minstrel song that became a virtual anthem of the Confederacy.

The fact that certain things predate the Civil War is undoubtedly true, but one of the things that predates it is slavery and racial bigotry. The Confederacy may be the most visible sore on the body politic, but it is certainly not the only one.
So did Alabama. Get rid of it.

ETA: In all seriousness, what are we to call that portion of the country where "grits" are a food, not a joke?

As for the commercial usages, they should do whatever they think is best for their brand, but it's unfortunate that people go to such lengths to find something wrong with some people.

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Old 26th June 2020, 04:01 PM   #1211
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
...Now granted, it's come also at times, just to mean the South and as such it refers to southern things which may or may not relate directly to slavery and race, such as "Dixieland Jazz" or the Dixie Chicks, or Winn-Dixie supermarkets, but if some people find their names carry uncomfortable connotations, who are we to say they shouldn't?
Perhaps they could change their name to Winn-Winn or Winn-Ning.
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Old 26th June 2020, 06:28 PM   #1212
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
ETA: In all seriousness, what are we to call that portion of the country where "grits" are a food, not a joke?
Grits are not a joke in any place where they are served. If you find yourself in a place where grits are a joke then you won't see them on the menu.

Grits are a food of the South, but not at all exclusively. This food is most common in the south and becomes less common as you go northwards. There the availability becomes more patchy, and the change gradient from south to north may not be even and smooth. Going straight north you could move from grits everywhere, to uncommon, and then right back to grits everywhere. But if you go north you will eventually find it very challenging to find grits on a menu.

The portion of the country where grits are a common staple food on menus is the South. But grits are on menus all over the place.

And you will indeed find them on some menus of very expensive gourmet restaurants in the Deep North. Best grits you ever ate - at the bargain price of $36 a plate. My deepest apologies sir, we ran out of our grits as they are very popular and we do use one exclusive artisanal heritage corn grower. Our supply is steady and we manage it for continual availability but it is not without occasional and brief shortages.
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Old 26th June 2020, 07:20 PM   #1213
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
I mean, he did some good things. But he also wavered on Reconstruction, and I have difficulty believing that the corruption, incompetence and scandal that plagued his presidency had nothing to do with Grant, the man. There was also a nearly Trumpian sense of self-pity apparent in his second inaugural address:

"Notwithstanding this, throughout the war, and from my candidacy for my present office in 1868 to the close of the last Presidential campaign,I have been the subject of abuse and slander scarcely ever equaled in political history, which to-day I feel that I can afford to disregard in view of your verdict, which I gratefully accept as my vindication."

He says this eight years after Booth painted the walls with Lincoln's brains. But I guess he did say scarcely.

You definitely need to read a biography of Grant, especially if you think he was anything like Trump.
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Old 26th June 2020, 07:28 PM   #1214
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
You definitely need to read a biography of Grant, especially if you think he was anything like Trump.
I only said he had demonstrated a nearly Trumpian level of self-pity, and gave a specific example where he did so. The point was not that he's like Trump, and no hagiography is going to convince me that he didn't say it.

His policies towards Native Americans were better than his predecessors, but still amounted to cultural genocide, and his commitment to racial equality was limited, and largely driven by popular opinion. I'm not going to heap praise on anyone for that.
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Old 26th June 2020, 11:02 PM   #1215
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Yeah, all those people named Karen shoulda known better, amirite?
I think you misread my post, probably my fault. I did not mean why shouldn't the connotations be uncomfortable, but why shouldn't the bearers of the names be free to change them.

People named Karen have plenty of reason for annoyance at the new connotation of that name. If they decide to change it, though, we can lament that they have to, but it's none of our business if they do.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:37 AM   #1216
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'd like to know what metacristi thinks "progressivism" means. 'Cause it sure doesn't seem to be what I think it means.

The comments here show rather that people don't even have a clue what they defend. Definitely not the freedom of expression. Yes today's progressivism has little in common with the Enlightenment type, being the result of the convergence of cultural relativist, postcolonial-Third-Wordlist, postmodernist (Foucault- inspired and others), cultural Marxist, cultural materialist (from anthropology) etc intellectual currents which morphed together strongly in the 1990s to yield what we see today, an ideology without commitment to truth, free speech, Reason ultimately. One which borrowed also quite many from the Bolshevik idea that violence is justified until the perceived enemy is completely destroyed (while not rejecting peaceful means when possible, Lenin definitely thought so).

If history teaches us anything this is that what allowed the society in America to recover from the excesses of McHartyism (extreme conservatism more widely) was exactly the commitment to freedom, deeply ingrained at the level of society at that time, even if dominated by conservative ideas (without this the 1968 protests for example or the gradual conquest of Academia by leftist ideas would not have been possible). Today this ability is no more there I'm afraid to temper the excesses of the progressivism of today (a mirror of McHartyism, if not a sort of inverse colonialism),. Collective aberrations of the past were reversible, this one (strong reasons to think so) can continue basically unabated.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:47 AM   #1217
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I happen to know for a matter of fact that Robert Johnson is wrong here; for instance in my city the current city council, which is majority African-American, is moving to remove a Confederate statue in front of the city's courthouse, with all of the relevant dialogue at the most recent council meeting being made by the black city councilmen and black citizens giving talks in support. And the individuals on the city council are not young anarchist activists, they are older gentlemen.
Ok, we know that you were wrong about this thing where you said that Robert Johnson is wrong. Johnson was correct by your own definition of what it would mean to be correct.

This actually leaves you with no criticisms of anything that Johnson said. Is that true?

You can lodge your criticisms now, or agree that you have none.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:52 AM   #1218
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Robert Johnson's always been like that - BET vastly improved in the years since he sold it to Viacom, although I do mean "years".
Ok, we know that Checkmite was wrong when he said that Johnson was wrong. And so by logical extension, you are wrong about that too. This leaves you with no criticisms of what Robert Johnson said.

Do you have any criticisms at all about what Johnson said?
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Old 27th June 2020, 09:38 AM   #1219
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
She is White, no matter what color they make her. This is Disney and don't let them fool you. There is no limit to their cash and talent for the creation of illusion.
I just watched the trailer for Princess and the Frog (never saw the movie), and I can tell you that this isn't going to stand because it's racist. And it is not subtle at all. This highly entertaining children's movie will have to be deleted or blacklisted.

Right away Black Princess is in a castle where no black person ever lived unless they were a slave. Disney understands that if you put the Black Princess in a castle then the question of racism is off the table right at the start. Racists don't put Black Princesses in (white people) castles let alone acknowledge that a black girl could be some kind of Princess. That is unless she is living in a mud hut in Africa. They have Black Princesses and they are in the biggest mud huts which are castles. So, it's absolutely not racist and nobody is going to think that it would become racist either. Disney got this right.

The trailer then shows us that we will be seeing at least one "black mammy", and apparently some jokes about big black butts throughout. The black people are exactly like what white people imagine black people to be like. It doesn't matter if there is some accuracy because white people don't always get black people "wrong" when they create them in cartoons.

And it starts to make sense because the movie is coming from White Empire. The movie was made by Disney White Empire Corporation. They were always to be entertainment for white people and they still are. Princess and the Frog is entertainment for white people and it shows them good black people and the topic of racism isn't even on the table. Black people would also fill the theaters for this. They are the stars of the movie and Disney is so awesome. It's just so good and really funny. The audience can't get enough of it, and all the little girls demand to be Princesses no matter what race they are. Anyway, Disney is a redneck asshat wearing a Hugo Boss suit and they know people who are great at animation. Money is no object blocking any of their paths.

But people like myself and Robert Johnson don't drink this Kool-Aid. We see the castle right at start and we know that Disney White Empire is pouring the Kool-Aid. Then we see that white guys are currently pulling down statues, and it's almost like everything is Disney now. Who the hell put the white guys in the role of the rope pullers? They were paid to do that by Disney White Empire Corporation. Or maybe they want to be in an anti-racism Disney movie where in the end the white people are salvaged and rehabilitated so that they end up being good folks like the black people. It's an infinite stack of Disneys all the way down. Each one on the back of another. If the sight of it makes you dizzy - I've heard that a sip of Kool-Aid helps.

Check this out...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V27cj6fe19o
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Old 28th June 2020, 11:33 AM   #1220
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Trump Tweeted

Since imposing a very powerful 10 year prison sentence on those that Vandalize Monuments, Statues etc., with many people being arrested all over our Country, the Vandalism has completely stopped. Thank you!
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:03 PM   #1221
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Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
The comments here show rather that people don't even have a clue what they defend. Definitely not the freedom of expression. Yes today's progressivism has little in common with the Enlightenment type, being the result of the convergence of cultural relativist, postcolonial-Third-Wordlist, postmodernist (Foucault- inspired and others), cultural Marxist, cultural materialist (from anthropology) etc intellectual currents which morphed together strongly in the 1990s to yield what we see today, an ideology without commitment to truth, free speech, Reason ultimately. One which borrowed also quite many from the Bolshevik idea that violence is justified until the perceived enemy is completely destroyed (while not rejecting peaceful means when possible, Lenin definitely thought so).

If history teaches us anything this is that what allowed the society in America to recover from the excesses of McHartyism (extreme conservatism more widely) was exactly the commitment to freedom, deeply ingrained at the level of society at that time, even if dominated by conservative ideas (without this the 1968 protests for example or the gradual conquest of Academia by leftist ideas would not have been possible). Today this ability is no more there I'm afraid to temper the excesses of the progressivism of today (a mirror of McHartyism, if not a sort of inverse colonialism),. Collective aberrations of the past were reversible, this one (strong reasons to think so) can continue basically unabated.
Well that was unenlightening.
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:24 PM   #1222
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I just watched the trailer for Princess and the Frog (never saw the movie), and I can tell you that this isn't going to stand because it's racist. And it is not subtle at all. This highly entertaining children's movie will have to be deleted or blacklisted.

Right away Black Princess is in a castle where no black person ever lived unless they were a slave. Disney understands that if you put the Black Princess in a castle then the question of racism is off the table right at the start. Racists don't put Black Princesses in (white people) castles let alone acknowledge that a black girl could be some kind of Princess. That is unless she is living in a mud hut in Africa. They have Black Princesses and they are in the biggest mud huts which are castles. So, it's absolutely not racist and nobody is going to think that it would become racist either. Disney got this right.

The trailer then shows us that we will be seeing at least one "black mammy", and apparently some jokes about big black butts throughout. The black people are exactly like what white people imagine black people to be like. It doesn't matter if there is some accuracy because white people don't always get black people "wrong" when they create them in cartoons.

And it starts to make sense because the movie is coming from White Empire. The movie was made by Disney White Empire Corporation. They were always to be entertainment for white people and they still are. Princess and the Frog is entertainment for white people and it shows them good black people and the topic of racism isn't even on the table. Black people would also fill the theaters for this. They are the stars of the movie and Disney is so awesome. It's just so good and really funny. The audience can't get enough of it, and all the little girls demand to be Princesses no matter what race they are. Anyway, Disney is a redneck asshat wearing a Hugo Boss suit and they know people who are great at animation. Money is no object blocking any of their paths.

But people like myself and Robert Johnson don't drink this Kool-Aid. We see the castle right at start and we know that Disney White Empire is pouring the Kool-Aid. Then we see that white guys are currently pulling down statues, and it's almost like everything is Disney now. Who the hell put the white guys in the role of the rope pullers? They were paid to do that by Disney White Empire Corporation. Or maybe they want to be in an anti-racism Disney movie where in the end the white people are salvaged and rehabilitated so that they end up being good folks like the black people. It's an infinite stack of Disneys all the way down. Each one on the back of another. If the sight of it makes you dizzy - I've heard that a sip of Kool-Aid helps.

Check this out...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V27cj6fe19o
I’m confused re the OP. Are any statutes being pulled down in the movie?
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:29 PM   #1223
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In looking up statutes being pulled down I was reminded of the wholesale toppling of Soviet Era statutes upon the liberation of the former Soviet Union countries. An unfortunate attempt to erase history no doubt.
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:41 PM   #1224
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I’m confused re the OP. Are any statutes being pulled down in the movie?
I doubt it.

A number of William Parcher's posts of late have had an air of "throw as much irrelevant **** as possible at the wall and see how much of it will stick". It has become tiresome.

This is either Mr Parcher beginning to show his true colours, or some attempt at jokes or being funny. If the latter, I'm afraid the humour escapes me. If the former, then we might soon expect a Trumpian "I was only joking" claim!
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:53 PM   #1225
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I’m confused re the OP. Are any statutes being pulled down in the movie?
Just in case your tongue was not completely in cheek:


In addition to statue-pulling, this thread has at times diverged into removal of other elements perceived as racist from society, such as Uncle Ben from the rice box.

One such element is the Disney movie "Song of the South", which is apparently racist. That movie was used as a theme for the Splash Mountain rides at Disneyland and Disney World. Disney has announced that they will be retheming those rides with the Princess and the Frog, which features an African American lead character.

So, the world is a better place.

Why? Well, I haven't seen either movie. I can't help but note, though, that "Song of the South" is based on folk tales that originated in Africa. The Princess and the Frog, on the other hand, is based on folk tales that originated in Europe. (That, and the imagery used, is what William was getting at.) There is a weak African connection to the Princess movie because the magic in the latter film is all Voodoo magic. One wonders whether the practitioners of Voudon might say that the depiction of their religion is racist, but that's not important.

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Old 28th June 2020, 11:06 PM   #1226
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Just in case your tongue was not completely in cheek:


In addition to statue-pulling, this thread has at times diverged into removal of other elements perceived as racist from society, such as Uncle Ben from the rice box.

One such element is the Disney movie "Song of the South", which is apparently racist. That movie was used as a theme for the Splash Mountain rides at Disneyland and Disney World. Disney has announced that they will be retheming those rides with the Princess and the Frog, which features an African American lead character.

So, the world is a better place.

Why? Well, I haven't seen either movie. I can't help but note, though, that "Song of the South" is based on folk tales that originated in Africa. The Princess and the Frog, on the other hand, is based on folk tales that originated in Europe. (That, and the imagery used, is what William was getting at.) There is a weak African connection to the Princess movie because the magic in the latter film is all Voodoo magic. One wonders whether the practitioners of Voudon might say that the depiction of their religion is racist, but that's not important.
I just watched Song of the South because of all the talk about it lately. My verdict is that it isn't racist at all, in fact the complete opposite. The bullies in the story are white, and the black child and the black man are the heroes. As far as I can tell, people just say it's racist because the black characters aren't shown as wallowing in misery and despair even though they're living in the Reconstruction era South. But they're shown as toiling away in the fields and living frugally and without a lot of wealth.

And as you said, the stories are all based on African/African-American folk tales. Kind of weird that this Disneyland change will actually be removing actual African stories from the park and replacing them with a European tale where blacks were just kind of shoved in. I actually thought it was a pretty good movie, with absolutely no derogatory portrayals of any of the black characters, and plenty of derogatory portrayals of some white characters. I'm actually quite shocked after viewing it that it's considered so horribly racist. If you'd like to see for yourself and form your own opinions, here's a high quality copy you can stream:

https://archive.org/details/SongOfTheSouthHD
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Old 29th June 2020, 02:53 AM   #1227
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Well that was unenlightening.

I was sure of the contrary Joking, I make no illusions about you (or others here for that matter) in this respect. How are you or the others alluded different from the Stalinist-like progressive opinion-makers who are crying 'bigotry!' ab initio, summarily executing the perceived enemy for all sort of, mostly imaginary, 'hate-crimes'? Not very different I'm afraid, from my own experience here. No, I'm not the 'extreme right'' abuser (exactly how Slavoj Zizek is still a sort of Marxist even if he criticizes political correctness). You may think you are the defender of who knows what kind of enlightened form of progressivism but you are in fact only the typical rank-and-file carrier of the same core message spread by the extremist wing which is in firm control of the future of this movement today.

In other order of ideas the transition from the universalism promoted by the old version of liberal-progressivism* to the racial, minority based (even here only the officially recognized minorities by the progressives), approach which created the culture of grievance of today was a massive betrayal to the idea of progressivism. Indeed when the whole enterprise is based on the alleged inherent racism of the whites as a sort of original sin, the complete rejection of the importance of European culture in the making of modernity (in reality not all cultures are almost equal contributors here), the severe erosion of free speech etc we should not be surprised if the reverse will actually happen at some point in the future, progressivism itself one of the victims of the Revolution with all costs of today.

It’s easy to paint even the most reasonable positions as ‘racism’ unfortunately this is never a real solution.


* focused on all persons, having the individual at the base not groups, still perfectly capable to defend the rights of minorities
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Old 29th June 2020, 02:55 AM   #1228
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Meanwhile in Sweden the Prime Minister has staunchly defended statues and monuments to vile racist monsters like Carl LinnaeusWP, of whose research a tiny insignificant portion covered the supposed racial differences between different groups of people and thus "Contributed to white Europeans getting the idea that they were the superior race and was used as a basis and explanation to dehumanize blacks and browns, colonization, raiding".

Quote:
No, I don't believe in it as a general recipe. We have a history. Should one every hundred years to start thinking about the statues or other monuments which are to be demolished now that we now see this in a different light? I think you can have perceptions about different people, but that we should start looking at what statues we should have left, no, I don't believe in that.
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Old 29th June 2020, 12:40 PM   #1229
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Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
I was sure of the contrary Joking, I make no illusions about you (or others here for that matter) in this respect. How are you or the others alluded different from the Stalinist-like progressive opinion-makers who are crying 'bigotry!' ab initio, summarily executing the perceived enemy for all sort of, mostly imaginary, 'hate-crimes'? Not very different I'm afraid, from my own experience here. No, I'm not the 'extreme right'' abuser (exactly how Slavoj Zizek is still a sort of Marxist even if he criticizes political correctness). You may think you are the defender of who knows what kind of enlightened form of progressivism but you are in fact only the typical rank-and-file carrier of the same core message spread by the extremist wing which is in firm control of the future of this movement today.

In other order of ideas the transition from the universalism promoted by the old version of liberal-progressivism* to the racial, minority based (even here only the officially recognized minorities by the progressives), approach which created the culture of grievance of today was a massive betrayal to the idea of progressivism. Indeed when the whole enterprise is based on the alleged inherent racism of the whites as a sort of original sin, the complete rejection of the importance of European culture in the making of modernity (in reality not all cultures are almost equal contributors here), the severe erosion of free speech etc we should not be surprised if the reverse will actually happen at some point in the future, progressivism itself one of the victims of the Revolution with all costs of today.

It’s easy to paint even the most reasonable positions as ‘racism’ unfortunately this is never a real solution.


* focused on all persons, having the individual at the base not groups, still perfectly capable to defend the rights of minorities
FWIW, your style of writing is a bit difficult to parse. I am fairly certain I followed what you were trying to say, but it took me a few reads.

May I ask if english is a second language for you, by chance?
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Old 29th June 2020, 12:43 PM   #1230
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Meanwhile in Sweden the Prime Minister has staunchly defended statues and monuments to vile racist monsters like Carl LinnaeusWP, of whose research a tiny insignificant portion covered the supposed racial differences between different groups of people and thus "Contributed to white Europeans getting the idea that they were the superior race and was used as a basis and explanation to dehumanize blacks and browns, colonization, raiding".
That seems like an awful lot of really good babies to be tossing out with the bathwater.
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Old 29th June 2020, 12:50 PM   #1231
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Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
I was sure of the contrary Joking, I make no illusions about you (or others here for that matter) in this respect. How are you or the others alluded different from the Stalinist-like progressive opinion-makers who are crying 'bigotry!' ab initio, summarily executing the perceived enemy for all sort of, mostly imaginary, 'hate-crimes'? Not very different I'm afraid, from my own experience here. No, I'm not the 'extreme right'' abuser (exactly how Slavoj Zizek is still a sort of Marxist even if he criticizes political correctness). You may think you are the defender of who knows what kind of enlightened form of progressivism but you are in fact only the typical rank-and-file carrier of the same core message spread by the extremist wing which is in firm control of the future of this movement today.

In other order of ideas the transition from the universalism promoted by the old version of liberal-progressivism* to the racial, minority based (even here only the officially recognized minorities by the progressives), approach which created the culture of grievance of today was a massive betrayal to the idea of progressivism. Indeed when the whole enterprise is based on the alleged inherent racism of the whites as a sort of original sin, the complete rejection of the importance of European culture in the making of modernity (in reality not all cultures are almost equal contributors here), the severe erosion of free speech etc we should not be surprised if the reverse will actually happen at some point in the future, progressivism itself one of the victims of the Revolution with all costs of today.

It’s easy to paint even the most reasonable positions as ‘racism’ unfortunately this is never a real solution.


* focused on all persons, having the individual at the base not groups, still perfectly capable to defend the rights of minorities
Speak English please!

You're posting on an internet forum, not writing a thesis summary for your PhD in Philosophy!
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Old 29th June 2020, 07:37 PM   #1232
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Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
I was sure of the contrary Joking, I make no illusions about you (or others here for that matter) in this respect. How are you or the others alluded different from the Stalinist-like progressive opinion-makers who are crying 'bigotry!' ab initio, summarily executing the perceived enemy for all sort of, mostly imaginary, 'hate-crimes'? Not very different I'm afraid, from my own experience here. No, I'm not the 'extreme right'' abuser (exactly how Slavoj Zizek is still a sort of Marxist even if he criticizes political correctness). You may think you are the defender of who knows what kind of enlightened form of progressivism but you are in fact only the typical rank-and-file carrier of the same core message spread by the extremist wing which is in firm control of the future of this movement today.

In other order of ideas the transition from the universalism promoted by the old version of liberal-progressivism* to the racial, minority based (even here only the officially recognized minorities by the progressives), approach which created the culture of grievance of today was a massive betrayal to the idea of progressivism. Indeed when the whole enterprise is based on the alleged inherent racism of the whites as a sort of original sin, the complete rejection of the importance of European culture in the making of modernity (in reality not all cultures are almost equal contributors here), the severe erosion of free speech etc we should not be surprised if the reverse will actually happen at some point in the future, progressivism itself one of the victims of the Revolution with all costs of today.

It’s easy to paint even the most reasonable positions as ‘racism’ unfortunately this is never a real solution.


* focused on all persons, having the individual at the base not groups, still perfectly capable to defend the rights of minorities
Well there are a lot of words here, but best I can make out is that you're saying that the BLM protestors are commies.
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Old 29th June 2020, 07:52 PM   #1233
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I'm pretty sure there's no intent to quash the story of the "importance" of European culture* in the journey to modernity.

A lot of people just would prefer we tell the real version.

The sanitized version is the one that attempts to silence truth.

* what is European culture, exactly? Be sure to get a broad range of opinions, good luck with finding any consistent threads.
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Old 30th June 2020, 08:06 AM   #1234
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
what is European culture, exactly?
It's a thoroughly racist culture just like America. But it doesn't really look that way because the body count is so incredibly lower than America. That is because Europe mostly doesn't do guns. They've got almost everything else including bombs that they make themselves. But you can't actually see the truly terrifying situation that would ensue if everyone has a gun or has easy access to a gun. All you can see is what can be done when your weaponry is anything except a gun.

Europeans are lucky that they don't have the gun situation like we have here. But we at least have to have millions of guns on the streets so that black people can defend themselves against black people and occasionally or rarely against white people. You cannot take the guns out of the hood or there will be murders like you cannot even begin to contemplate. Entire black gangs are slaughtered like fish in a barrel only because their guns were all taken away before they were taken from their rival black gang. And the summary execution of these black lives would begin instantly after a black gang loses its guns.

In the most insane twist of irony, you have to actually leave all the guns in BLACKGANGLAND in order to actually save black lives. WTF? is the only thing left to say.

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Old 30th June 2020, 08:46 AM   #1235
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Europeans are lucky that they don't have the gun situation like we have here.
It's not luck. It's a choice. We don't have them because we don't want them.

Dave
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Old 30th June 2020, 06:37 PM   #1236
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Bristol pub named after Colston to be renamed Pubby McDrunkface. Don't let anyone tell you we're not taking this seriously in the South West

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9594406.html
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Old 30th June 2020, 07:59 PM   #1237
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Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
Bristol pub named after Colston to be renamed Pubby McDrunkface. Don't let anyone tell you we're not taking this seriously in the South West

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9594406.html
Interestingly that pub refused to segregate black and white soldiers during WWII

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-32681824
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Old 1st July 2020, 07:03 AM   #1238
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Oh, that's quite a popular pub on the real ale trails, and have drunk there several times. Not sure I'd have been put off if I had known the story behind the name, but glad they're changing it
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Old 1st July 2020, 09:13 AM   #1239
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Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
Interestingly that pub refused to segregate black and white soldiers during WWII

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-32681824

WW2 Training Film for US Soldiers How to Behave in Britain:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Just after the 25-minute mark there's a scene where an older English lady invites both a white soldier and a colored soldier to tea, after which the white soldier, who's also the narrator, turns to the camera and explains that "there are less social restrictions in this country."

Those of the British persuasion might find other parts of the film amusing as well, particularly at about 7:45 where an obnoxious American soldier makes an ass of himself in a pub.
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Old 1st July 2020, 01:36 PM   #1240
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Originally Posted by SpitfireIX View Post
WW2 Training Film for US Soldiers How to Behave in Britain:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

Just after the 25-minute mark there's a scene where an older English lady invites both a white soldier and a colored soldier to tea, after which the white soldier, who's also the narrator, turns to the camera and explains that "there are less social restrictions in this country."

Those of the British persuasion might find other parts of the film amusing as well, particularly at about 7:45 where an obnoxious American soldier makes an ass of himself in a pub.
Great story about how one English Women when asked about the Yanks, siad, "Most of t hem are nice, polite people, but we could do without the Whtie ones".
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