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Tags Jay Inslee , protest incidents , Seattle incidents , Seattle issues

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Old 13th June 2020, 09:48 AM   #81
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Republicans and the right wing (forgive me for repeating myself) need to create scary demons to frighten voters into supporting them. So they are constantly searching for some event or position that can be fictionalized appropriately. “Defund the police” is one of these - a catchphrase that can be twisted and fraudulently sold to many in the middle class as leaving them exposed to lawlessness.

CHAZ is another example of the reality failing to be frightening so it must be twisted and fictionalized to make it so. Ultimately the reality must be morphed to emerge as the message “Vote for Democrats and they will turn your neighborhood into Somalia.”

Sure, to do so takes an enormous amount of pure fabrication. Lies. Misleading, mislabeled, or completely fake photos. Untrue rumors blithely presented in headlines as accurate. But Fox News, the right wing blog sphere, the Republican leadership, etc. are a large and interlocking entity and will try their hardest to make it so. And it works. Just look at the statements presented as facts by the City Journal as quoted in the OP; I notice that similar distortions/lies by Fox News still remain up as banner headlines on the web no matter that they have been shown to be untrue since they were first posted. These false impressions certainly will become established as truths in the minds of many in the wider population.
Meh. It's elections season. have you not noticed the left leaning media "warping reality" at all? Really?

I haven't been following CHAZ (or social media) as closely as many probably are, but I'd wager it's essentially sort of like Burning Man right now. But with more people talking about 'organizing' and considering making 'demands'. There is definitely a humorous component in my view. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

You may want to also check out the Op-Ed the NYT ran recently, entitled "Yes, Mean Literally Abolish the Police". Would you characterize the NYT as twisting and defraudulently selling the actual point of view of that opinion writer?
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Old 13th June 2020, 11:04 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Is it Mogadishu yet?
Clearly. The horror!

ETA: “The horror... with food trucks.”
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg A7CCA0A8-9BB2-46C8-A2E1-442A565904C8.jpeg (106.8 KB, 22 views)

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Old 13th June 2020, 11:10 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post

I haven't been following CHAZ (or social media) as closely as many probably are, but I'd wager it's essentially sort of like Burning Man right now. But with more people talking about 'organizing' and considering making 'demands'. There is definitely a humorous component in my view.
1) If you did follow this on social media, you would see just that. That's pretty close to what is actually happening.

2) You would also see numerous reports of downtown Seattle under control of a communist warlord, who has declared independence from the U.S., set up armed checkpoints (including requiring ID), extorting protection money from businesses, enforcing control with heavily armed guards. Reports of mass rape and assault within that area.


#1 is backed by on-scene reports.
#2 is completely fictional.

#2 is getting much more coverage and is widely believed. Maybe about 5:1 on twitter. It's not even close. Right wing talk radio seems to be running with it non-stop, it keeps getting echoed by Republican politicians.

And the believers of #2 are DEMANDING that the government resume control. The president is echoing that demand. They are demanding that force be used, including bloodshed, if that is needed, to fight against this #2 scenario - a scenario which isn't actually happening. That includes the president, who has threatened to send in the military if the governor or mayor doesn't do it quickly enough.

People (many of them, including our President) want to use military force against our own citizens, based on fiction. That's worrisome.
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Old 13th June 2020, 11:40 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Meh. It's elections season. have you not noticed the left leaning media "warping reality" at all? Really?

I haven't been following CHAZ (or social media) as closely as many probably are, but I'd wager it's essentially sort of like Burning Man right now. But with more people talking about 'organizing' and considering making 'demands'. There is definitely a humorous component in my view. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

You may want to also check out the Op-Ed the NYT ran recently, entitled "Yes, Mean Literally Abolish the Police". Would you characterize the NYT as twisting and defraudulently selling the actual point of view of that opinion writer?
It is an Op-Ed clearly presenting the view of one person, the writer, Mariame Kaba, whose opinions represent one extreme of the spectrum on the defund the police supporters. It is not attempting to twist the views of the many others supporting “defund the police” into a call for elimination of all police. It is not an attempt to reduce and distort the calls for a bottom to top restructuring of public safety into a call for anarchy and lawlessness. Ms Kaba herself presents a view of what organizations should replace the police, rather than a simplistic call for elimination of public oversight and safety.

Frankly I haven’t noticed “the left leaning media” warping reality much at all this election season. If anything I’ve seen them try to be as unbiased as possible while under personal and systematic attack and threat. But then Trump and his supporters spin their own reality so much it is difficult for them to recognize actual facts when they trip over them.

But this is another, “Yeah? Well, what about them?” effort and I refuse to take the bait. My point about the evil lies and intentional fictions spun by the Republicans and right wing media stand unrefuted by your post.

Last edited by Giordano; 13th June 2020 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 13th June 2020, 12:11 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
1) If you did follow this on social media, you would see just that. That's pretty close to what is actually happening.

2) You would also see numerous reports of downtown Seattle under control of a communist warlord, who has declared independence from the U.S., set up armed checkpoints (including requiring ID), extorting protection money from businesses, enforcing control with heavily armed guards. Reports of mass rape and assault within that area.


#1 is backed by on-scene reports.
#2 is completely fictional.

#2 is getting much more coverage and is widely believed. Maybe about 5:1 on twitter. It's not even close. Right wing talk radio seems to be running with it non-stop, it keeps getting echoed by Republican politicians.

And the believers of #2 are DEMANDING that the government resume control. The president is echoing that demand. They are demanding that force be used, including bloodshed, if that is needed, to fight against this #2 scenario - a scenario which isn't actually happening. That includes the president, who has threatened to send in the military if the governor or mayor doesn't do it quickly enough.

People (many of them, including our President) want to use military force against our own citizens, based on fiction. That's worrisome.
Exactly. Hardly a “mea, just politics as usual” issue. There is very clear danger to people’s lives as a result of these lies, not to mention the intentional smears of the reputations of those involved. Disgusting, coordinated, cynical, vicious attacks on others and on the fundaments of truth should not be viewed with yawns.
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Old 13th June 2020, 12:16 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Exactly. Hardly a “mea, just politics as usual” issue. There is very clear danger to people’s lives as a result of these lies, not to mention the intentional smears of the reputations of those involved. Disgusting, coordinated, cynical, vicious attacks on others and on the fundaments of truth should not be viewed with yawns.
Are you going to try to reason with people who wish to turn the US Military against its own hippy-type citizens based on internet rumors?

The Fox news crowd doesn't respond to facts. Like a conspiracy theorist, they will just change the subject to keep rolling out the confirmation bias.

Eta: ninja'ed almost verbatim by crescent
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Old 13th June 2020, 12:51 PM   #87
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Fox News falling for a Monty Python sketch:EaalGuVXkAEIICy.jpg
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Old 13th June 2020, 12:55 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
People (many of them, including our President) want to use military force against our own citizens, based on fiction. That's worrisome.
I am quite sure sir-drinks-a-lot and other rethugulicans are fine with that.
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Old 13th June 2020, 01:38 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Clearly. The horror!

ETA: “The horror... with food trucks.”
That honestly saddens me. Why? Because, while I'm not intimately familiar with that part of Seattle that looks very much like an area that will one day be open to motor vehicle traffic. What is likely to become of that beautiful street mural in the face of sustained traffic?
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Old 13th June 2020, 01:47 PM   #90
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Frankly I haven’t noticed “the left leaning media” warping reality much at all this election season. If anything I’ve seen them try to be as unbiased as possible while under personal and systematic attack and threat.
Is this a Poe?

Quote:
But this is another, “Yeah? Well, what about them?” effort and I refuse to take the bait. My point about the evil lies and intentional fictions spun by the Republicans and right wing media stand unrefuted by your post.
"What about them?" is a valid criticism. I'm certain that if I were to start a thread chronicling the lies of the Obama administration, the first thing you and many other would say is "he's nothing compared to Trump". You know this is the case.

I'm not claiming there aren't intentional lies and spin on the right. I'm just surprised at how blind you are to the fact that it's also happening on the left. Your comment about "being as unbiased as possible while under personal and systematic attack and threat" borders on comedy.
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Old 13th June 2020, 01:53 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
That honestly saddens me. Why? Because, while I'm not intimately familiar with that part of Seattle that looks very much like an area that will one day be open to motor vehicle traffic. What is likely to become of that beautiful street mural in the face of sustained traffic?
Maybe the artists were making a long-game performance piece about society trampling on and forgetting its ideals? Or perhaps it will be predictably destroyed because the knucklehead painters don't have a sense of situational transience? Yeah, that second one.
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Old 13th June 2020, 04:07 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Looks like some people don't agree with you and have loftier goals than trying to rectify "the race thing".
Solidarity between working people of all races to solve the problem of police brutality is a pretty common element of most of these protests.

These things are largely being lead and organized by leftists. Police abolishment/defunding are leftist causes. Calls for class consciousness and solidarity are par for the course and not signs of it being co-opted.
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Old 13th June 2020, 04:13 PM   #93
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Is there anyone in Seattle that finds this anarchist hellscape protest/street festival more objectionable than cops blanketing the area with tear gas?

Even from the perspective of the uninterested bystander, the absence of police is likely welcomed. Tear gas irritates the protester and bystander alike, and I'm sure it's been wafting into these homes given how heavily the cops had been deploying gas.
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Old 13th June 2020, 04:34 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Is this a Poe?



"What about them?" is a valid criticism. I'm certain that if I were to start a thread chronicling the lies of the Obama administration, the first thing you and many other would say is "he's nothing compared to Trump". You know this is the case.

I'm not claiming there aren't intentional lies and spin on the right. I'm just surprised at how blind you are to the fact that it's also happening on the left. Your comment about "being as unbiased as possible while under personal and systematic attack and threat" borders on comedy.
We’ve been through this very point before. A “what about them” rebuttal can, if proven, only prove hypocrisy on the part of the opponent. It cannot rebut the accuracy of the original accusation of an evil deed or immoral action. It cannot justify a wrong. If the black hats murder people, an accusation that the red hats do too doesn’t make murder any more acceptable.

So I refuse to be led off on your distraction. In part because it is absurd and I don’t believe that even you see the “liberal” newspapers as comparable to the propaganda machine and private Ministry of Truth represented by Fox et al. But more so because it is an attempt to yell “squirrel.” If you wish to assume that I am a hypocrite and I choose to ignore the deep “bias” of the non-Fox media - fine. But my post about the evil of Fox et al. still stands, unrefuted, independent of my “hypocrisy.”
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Old 13th June 2020, 05:27 PM   #95
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OK people it's time to put down those phones, log off that computer, go outside and give $10 to the first black person you see.

If you find this difficult, you have to think really critically about in the future are you actually going to give up power, land and capital because if you have a hard time giving up 10 dollars. You gotta think about, are you really down with this struggle ? Are you really down with the movement ? Because if that is a challenge for you then I'm unsure if you're posting on the right thread.

White people...I see you...I see every single one of you.

You find that African American person and you give them $10, that;s my challenge to you.

DO IT
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Old 13th June 2020, 05:54 PM   #96
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I would give a random black person $10,000 before I would give a racist like you the time of day.
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Old 13th June 2020, 06:08 PM   #97
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Hey shemp. What time is it ?
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Old 13th June 2020, 06:14 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
OK people it's time to put down those phones, log off that computer, go outside and give $10 to the first black person you see.

If you find this difficult, you have to think really critically about in the future are you actually going to give up power, land and capital because if you have a hard time giving up 10 dollars. You gotta think about, are you really down with this struggle ? Are you really down with the movement ? Because if that is a challenge for you then I'm unsure if you're posting on the right thread.

White people...I see you...I see every single one of you.

You find that African American person and you give them $10, that;s my challenge to you.

DO IT
Okay, did it. They looked puzzled. Now what?
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Old 13th June 2020, 06:27 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Okay, did it. They looked puzzled. Now what?
You did..excellent. Now you've shown your commitment to give up power, land and capital and all you need do is wait the people at CHAZ to ask you for it.
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Old 13th June 2020, 07:14 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
You did..excellent. Now you've shown your commitment to give up power, land and capital and all you need do is wait the people at CHAZ to ask you for it.
OMG!

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Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 13th June 2020, 07:42 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
OK people it's time to put down those phones, log off that computer, go outside and give $10 to the first black person you see.

If you find this difficult, you have to think really critically about in the future are you actually going to give up power, land and capital because if you have a hard time giving up 10 dollars. You gotta think about, are you really down with this struggle ? Are you really down with the movement ? Because if that is a challenge for you then I'm unsure if you're posting on the right thread.

White people...I see you...I see every single one of you.

You find that African American person and you give them $10, that;s my challenge to you.

DO IT
I give up. What would that prove? The CHAZers aren't trying to give money to black people. What if the black guy has more money than me? Isn't your premise insulting, that the White guy is rich and the black man in need of my handout?

The CHAZers may be playing at a hippy commune, but they brought in a hot dog cart selling weenies at $6 a throw. They also coordinated with the city to provide sanitation/porta-potties. Seems to me they are rejecting the more corporate and fascist elements we have kicking around. I can cheer that without treating a black man like a panhandlers, and getting beat up.
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Old 13th June 2020, 08:04 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Okay, did it. They looked puzzled. Now what?
Why stop there? Give up all your wealth and belongings too! Your white privilege is so evident it's sickening! How racist can you be anyway!
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Old 13th June 2020, 08:29 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
You did..excellent. Now you've shown your commitment to give up power, land and capital and all you need do is wait the people at CHAZ to ask you for it.
Okay! But so far they haven’t asked me for anything. Except to not be murdered by the police.
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Old 13th June 2020, 08:32 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I give up. What would that prove? The CHAZers aren't trying to give money to black people. What if the black guy has more money than me? Isn't your premise insulting, that the White guy is rich and the black man in need of my handout?

The CHAZers may be playing at a hippy commune, but they brought in a hot dog cart selling weenies at $6 a throw. They also coordinated with the city to provide sanitation/porta-potties. Seems to me they are rejecting the more corporate and fascist elements we have kicking around. I can cheer that without treating a black man like a panhandlers, and getting beat up.
Yes, they are asking white people to give black people money.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/protes...give-out-cash/
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Old 13th June 2020, 08:36 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
Why stop there? Give up all your wealth and belongings too! Your white privilege is so evident it's sickening! How racist can you be anyway!
Stout only asked me for a ten. And even that was very awkward. The guy I gave it to seemed very unnerved by it. I believe he thought it was some type of scam.

BTW I tripled checked that it was a good bill and not counterfeit so some cop would ‘t show up and slowly choke me to death.
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Old 13th June 2020, 08:56 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Stout only asked me for a ten. And even that was very awkward. The guy I gave it to seemed very unnerved by it. I believe he thought it was some type of scam.

BTW I tripled checked that it was a good bill and not counterfeit so some cop would ‘t show up and slowly choke me to death.
That didn't address my post at all, when will you be handing over cash to BLM?

How much and when?

Reparations are required, hurry up and report back!
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Old 13th June 2020, 08:56 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Yes, they are asking white people to give black people money.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/protes...give-out-cash/
I always love the term “they.” As in “they” do awful things, unlike “us.” The “they” in your link refers to one guy.

Ten bucks. Not too bad. I’ll just skip a couple of days of lattes, which BTW are the only drinks we privileged whites drink. Frankly I’ve been asked for more by people at bus stations claiming to have lost their wallet. And the guy in the link didn't want it for himself.

It’s really funny: a few days ago Fox News affiliates like the Post were trying to stir up waves of fear by publishing fake stories of armed warlords terrorizing innocent Seattle citizens. Now they are reduced to telling of the outrage of a guy asking people to give away a sawbuck.

Last edited by Giordano; 13th June 2020 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:11 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I always love the term “they.” As in “they” do awful things, unlike “us.” The “they” in your link refers to one guy.

Ten bucks. Not too bad. I’ll just skip a couple of days of lattes, which BTW are the only drinks we privileged whites drink. Frankly I’ve been asked for more by people at bus stations claiming to have lost their wallet. And the guy in the link didn't want it for himself.

It’s really funny: a few days ago Fox News affiliates like the Post we’re trying to stir up waves of fear by publishing fake stories of armed warlords terrorizing innocent Seattle citizens. Now they are reduced to telling of the outrage of a guy asking people to give away a sawbuck.
Ten bucks? Is that all you're willing to pay for your white privilege???? What kind of racist are you!!!

Please give your money and belongings to BLM immediately you insensitve jerk!
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:16 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
That didn't address my post at all, when will you be handing over cash to BLM?

How much and when?

Reparations are required, hurry up and report back!
Oh, I think I understand you now! Yes, it is confusing. Here, I’ll try explain. You see, there are a lot of different people with different causes in the CHAZ. Some people even have two or more causes. BLM for example are unified primarily by the cause of stopping unjustified police shootings and abuse. Many however further want a broader restructuring of society to eliminate institutionalized racism. Some also want a more fair income distribution by revising the tax structure. Some of these, and some others, seek reparations. Some want a more radical socialization of society Some favor the opposite, a more anarchistic form of society (sort of like Reagan).

I dont know if the guy I handed cash to tonight was BLM or not or what other causes he might support. Stout didn’t ask me to check. Did I make an error? But then I have been giving additional donations to BLM and to other causes I support. Hey, by all criteria I myself am a member of BLM! I am a “they!”
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:22 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Oh, I think I understand you now! Yes, it is confusing. Here, I’ll try explain. You see, there are a lot of different people with different causes in the CHAZ. Some people even have two or more causes. BLM for example are unified primarily by the cause of stopping unjustified police shootings and abuse. Many however further want a broader restructuring of society to eliminate institutionalized racism. Some also want a more fair income distribution by revising the tax structure. Some of these, and some others, seek reparations. Some want a more radical socialization of society Some favor the opposite, a more anarchistic form of society (sort of like Reagan).

I dont know if the guy I handed cash to tonight was BLM or not or what other causes he might support. Stout didn’t ask me to check. Did I make an error? But then I have been giving additional donations to BLM and to other causes I support. Hey, by all criteria I myself am a member of BLM! I am a “they!”
What a poor response, I'll ask again:

Quote:
That didn't address my post at all, when will you be handing over cash to BLM?

How much and when?

Reparations are required, hurry up and report back!
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:28 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
Ten bucks? Is that all you're willing to pay for your white privilege???? What kind of racist are you!!!

Please give your money and belongings to BLM immediately you insensitve jerk!
I don’t get it. Stout only asked me to give a sawbuck. Even the guy in Seattle only asked me for the ten. Now you’re going on and on about my white privilege. The listed price was $10. I paid it. I even have a receipt. BLM didn’t ask me even for that! Who are you to insist on changing the deal?

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Old 13th June 2020, 09:33 PM   #112
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If you guys are so keen on wealth redistribution, I could use some scratch. I call my autonomous zone 'Cops Unwelcome Near Thermal's Street'. Cash is fine.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:37 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
What a poor response, I'll ask again:
Here, I’ll be even more explicit. I gave $10 to a random black guy at Stout’s request, not his. Stout apparently was forwarding a request by another random guy in Seattle. How much? Ten bucks so far. When? Earlier tonight.

BLM has not asked me even for $10 although I have donated quite a bit more to them. In fact I thank you for encouraging me to give more! I’ll do so tomorrow! It’s an important cause.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:39 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
It’s really funny: a few days ago Fox News affiliates like the Post we’re trying to stir up waves of fear by publishing fake stories of armed warlords terrorizing innocent Seattle citizens. Now they are reduced to telling of the outrage of a guy asking people to give away a sawbuck.
And yet, the thread has successfully been derailed. If one can't win on facts, derail the thread.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:39 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I always love the term “they.” As in “they” do awful things, unlike “us.” The “they” in your link refers to one guy.
Actually it's "they" as in the people who are listening and cheering on the speaker as opposed to "us" a group of people posting on a message board. Should the post I made bring "us" and "them" closer together in actions and deeds then that could only be a good thing.

You may be on to something with they guy not asking for the money for himself as the video clearly shows that he didn't ask for the money for himself.

I also agree that the ten bucks is trivial, a mere token of commitment and the real discussion needs to center around the hows and whens this transfer of power land and capital is going to happen.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:42 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
And yet, the thread has successfully been derailed. If one can't win on facts, derail the thread.
It's not a derail this is strait outta CHAZ, which is the actual topic of this thread.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:44 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Yes, they are asking white people to give black people money.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/protes...give-out-cash/
That one lone yahoo, you mean? I've got more random lone yahoos in my neighborhood making more creative demands than just that.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:45 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
And yet, the thread has successfully been derailed. If one can't win on facts, derail the thread.
True and I apologize for my part in it. It was just too tempted to play out an absurd post. But the reality is too important for acting silly.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:52 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Actually it's "they" as in the people who are listening and cheering on the speaker as opposed to "us" a group of people posting on a message board. Should the post I made bring "us" and "them" closer together in actions and deeds then that could only be a good thing.

You may be on to something with they guy not asking for the money for himself as the video clearly shows that he didn't ask for the money for himself.

I also agree that the ten bucks is trivial, a mere token of commitment and the real discussion needs to center around the hows and whens this transfer of power land and capital is going to happen.
I am not playing when I say that I am not an “us” but a “them.“ BLM Is a much larger group of people of all colors and all aspects of society than you were implying. But yes, let’s hope to unite for a more fair and just society.

Pardon me for ignoring your last paragraph.
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Old 14th June 2020, 08:13 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Yes, they are asking white people to give black people money.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/protes...give-out-cash/
There is no "they". One random person asked that, according to your sketchy citation. Meaninglessness on steroids.

Clickbait for the sort of dimwits who buy the Natl Enquirer in the grocery line.
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