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Tags Jay Inslee , protest incidents , Seattle incidents , Seattle issues

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Old 19th June 2020, 11:32 AM   #241
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Thanks for proving my point. You just hate the idea of police.
Yes, I am opposed to the over-policing of an ostensibly free society. You aren't?
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Old 20th June 2020, 11:01 AM   #242
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One dead, another injured in shooting inside the CHAZ CHOP

Quote:
Police tried to find the shooting victims but were met by a "violent crowd" that prevented the officers from safely accessing the victims, according to a release from Seattle police Saturday morning

Last edited by portlandatheist; 20th June 2020 at 11:07 AM. Reason: fixed link
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Old 20th June 2020, 11:04 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
One dead, another injured in shooting inside the CHAZ/CHOPhttps://www.kgw.com/article/news/loc...f-30b40046fa59
Here we go.

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Old 20th June 2020, 11:55 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
Seattle needs to send some social workers in there quick!
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Old 20th June 2020, 11:59 AM   #245
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Looks like protesters transported the victims to hospitals, and police still have access to security and surveillance video from the area of the shooting, so they are conducting an investigation as normal.
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Old 20th June 2020, 01:24 PM   #246
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Not to mention that from all accounts I've heard so far, it was a vehicle full of white men with weapons that drove up, opened fire, then took off again. Doesn't quite sound like CHOP is at fault if that's the case.
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Old 20th June 2020, 03:38 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Looks like protesters transported the victims to hospitals, and police still have access to security and surveillance video from the area of the shooting, so they are conducting an investigation as normal.
So it's not as autonomous as the word autonomous would imply it is? Does CHOP have an extradition treaty with Seattle?
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Old 20th June 2020, 04:01 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Not to mention that from all accounts I've heard so far, it was a vehicle full of white men with weapons that drove up, opened fire, then took off again.
Link?

If it was confirmed that it was really a vehicle full of white men that drove up, you'd think it'd be all they'd be talking about on CNN by now.
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Old 20th June 2020, 05:25 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The police have already said they would respond to any serious violence. Otherwise a person can walk to the boundary and meet the cops there.

They've also opened the street to allow some traffic so vehicles can get in.
So the streets are no longer open to the public? But only to those whom the CHOP folks allow in?
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Old 20th June 2020, 05:40 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss View Post
So the streets are no longer open to the public? But only to those whom the CHOP folks allow in?
They don't let police in. Anyone else seems to be able to come and go pretty freely. There have been some livestreams on Youtube for some time now, showing one of the entrances (I've linked to them twice already in this thread already).

They've got vehicle barriers up, but but the sidewalks are clear, nobody checking any sort of paperwork, people just come and go as they please.

That includes a few politically-motivated people looking to start arguments, which have not always ended peacefully. The place isn't perfect by any stretch. But it is not the breakaway republic ruled by the communist warlord portrayed in much of the conservative media either.
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Old 20th June 2020, 06:48 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Exactly.
The mayor of DC had the right idea with the giant "Black Lives Matter" mural on the street.

If anyone remembers "The Wire" (an American Television show), these places (the Mural, and CHOP )become types of "Hamsterdam" -keeping the focus of the protests localized, and easier to manage.
Static occupation like Occupy missed the mark.

They were repeating what the indignatos in Spain did. They forgot the part where those long-term (6-8 week max) rallies had an end date.

Then plan the next one, and so on. Focus on different issues each time, but with an overall theme.

Americans overdo it, naturally.
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Old 21st June 2020, 06:04 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Not to mention that from all accounts I've heard so far, it was a vehicle full of white men with weapons that drove up, opened fire, then took off again. Doesn't quite sound like CHOP is at fault if that's the case.
Reporting is that a black SUV pulled up near the barricade and man with a rifle got out and opened fire before leaving.

Right wing propaganda has been painting a target on the protest for days now and it seems like a gunman has finally taken the bait.

Earlier this week Proud Boys pulled up in an unlicensed van and beat and robbed a man at the border of the CHOP.

Counterprotesters and right wing reactionaries proving themselves to be the real danger once again.
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Old 21st June 2020, 08:36 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Not to mention that from all accounts I've heard so far, it was a vehicle full of white men with weapons that drove up, opened fire, then took off again. Doesn't quite sound like CHOP is at fault if that's the case.
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Reporting is that a black SUV pulled up near the barricade and man with a rifle got out and opened fire before leaving.

Right wing propaganda has been painting a target on the protest for days now and it seems like a gunman has finally taken the bait.

Earlier this week Proud Boys pulled up in an unlicensed van and beat and robbed a man at the border of the CHOP.

Counterprotesters and right wing reactionaries proving themselves to be the real danger once again.
Lack of citations casts doubts on these claims. My fruitless search for confirmation adds to the doubt.
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Old 21st June 2020, 09:06 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Lack of citations casts doubts on these claims. My fruitless search for confirmation adds to the doubt.
SuburbanTurkey's second claim, about the proud bitches, was earlier confirmed:

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Proud boys showed up at the CHAZ yesterday, assaulted a man, and smashed his phone.

Taking part in the assault and robbery was Tiny Toese, who is currently on probation for other violent crimes.

https://twitter.com/RichieMcGinniss/...18909737586688
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Old 21st June 2020, 12:14 PM   #255
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Clearly we should wait until there is evidence the CHOP shootings were akin to a drive-by. But there is a trend developing where the white supremacists are taking Trump's words to heart, take them out.

NPR: Vehicle Attacks Rise As Extremists Target Protesters
Quote:
Right-wing extremists are turning cars into weapons, with reports of 50 vehicle-ramming incidents since protests against police violence erupted nationwide in late May.

At least 18 are categorized as deliberate attacks; another two dozen are unclear as to motivation or are still under investigation, according to a count released Friday by Ari Weil, a terrorism researcher at the University of Chicago's Chicago Project on Security and Threats. Weil has tracked vehicle ramming attacks, or VRAs, since protests began.

The 20 people facing prosecution in the rammings include a state leader of the Virginia Ku Klux Klan, as well as a California man who was charged with attempted murder after antagonizing protesters and then driving into them, striking a teenage girl. Video footage of some attacks shows drivers yelling at or threatening Black Lives Matter protesters before hitting the gas.

"The message they're trying to send is: you need to get out of the street and stop these protests," Weil said. "They're trying to intimidate the most recent wave of BLM protesters, to stop their movement."
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Old 21st June 2020, 12:23 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Looks like protesters transported the victims to hospitals, and police still have access to security and surveillance video from the area of the shooting, so they are conducting an investigation as normal.
I'm wondering about the forensic evidence. Who got the spent cartridge casings? Other physical evidence? Photos and video and measurements of the scene exactly as it was after the crime?

What about witnesses? Were police allowed to enter CHOP and look for witnesses in order to get statements and get witness ID for possible future recontact?
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Old 21st June 2020, 12:42 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
SuburbanTurkey's second claim, about the proud bitches, was earlier confirmed:
Doesn't that just prove though that the protesters are like everybody else; they need some police protection? Not (necessarily) yet from internal problems, but guess what? Your local cops are there to protect you from cretins from the outside as well.
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Old 21st June 2020, 01:01 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
SuburbanTurkey's second claim, about the proud bitches, was earlier confirmed:
I wasn't referring to that particular claim and I should have edited it out. Pardon me.
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Old 21st June 2020, 01:09 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Clearly we should wait until there is evidence the CHOP shootings were akin to a drive-by. But there is a trend developing where the white supremacists are taking Trump's words to heart, take them out.

NPR: Vehicle Attacks Rise As Extremists Target Protesters
I have no doubt.

But here we are on a forum ostensibly for critical thinkers, but alas wishful thinkers are posting wishful thinking, accompanied by misleading nonsense such as "by all accounts". Yet no citation to one such account. And I can't find one such account.
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Old 21st June 2020, 01:28 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I have no doubt.

But here we are on a forum ostensibly for critical thinkers, but alas wishful thinkers are posting wishful thinking, accompanied by misleading nonsense such as "by all accounts". Yet no citation to one such account. And I can't find one such account.
Believe me, I too am anxiously awaiting evidence of the van rumor.

So far though, it does appear the shots came from the outside to the inside given anyone shooting within CHOP would have been mobbed and detained as happened with other incidents.
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Old 21st June 2020, 01:42 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So far though, it does appear the shots came from the outside to the inside given anyone shooting within CHOP would have been mobbed and detained as happened with other incidents.
Not likely if he stops the SUV for 10 seconds to take 2 shots with a rifle and then gets back in and mashes the accelerator. An attempt to "mob and detain" just results in more injuries or death for the CHOP people who would be attempting it.
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Old 21st June 2020, 01:45 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Doesn't that just prove though that the protesters are like everybody else; they need some police protection? Not (necessarily) yet from internal problems, but guess what? Your local cops are there to protect you from cretins from the outside as well.
Yes and no. Police would likely not have been able to do anything this time unless they were on the scene during the attack. It was over in seconds, and the video identifying the guys is what the police have one way or the other to prosecute.

In my most humble of opinions, cops want a bad guy. Whether that bad guy is a protestor or proud boy makes little difference to them, as long as it is a fresh skull to crack. Maybe theyll protect you, and maybe they'll attack you, but you can't count on them to be consistent. That's what the CHOP zone is about, I think.
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Old 21st June 2020, 03:25 PM   #263
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Unfortunately, the information about white men was in a comment on this article, made by someone at the scene. They've now closed comments on the article so there's nothing left. The SUV is covered in the article though.

https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2...zone-shooting/
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Old 21st June 2020, 03:36 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Not likely if he stops the SUV for 10 seconds to take 2 shots with a rifle and then gets back in and mashes the accelerator. An attempt to "mob and detain" just results in more injuries or death for the CHOP people who would be attempting it.
You mean if the person ran inside the perimeter, took shots and ran back out?

That's essentially the same as shooting from outside.
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Old 21st June 2020, 03:39 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Unfortunately, the information about white men was in a comment on this article, made by someone at the scene. They've now closed comments on the article so there's nothing left. The SUV is covered in the article though.

https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2...zone-shooting/
Your link gave me an answer about casings...

Quote:
Police were collecting shell casings and evidence in the area and East Precinct radio reported video of the incident was being provided.
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Old 21st June 2020, 03:46 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You mean if the person ran inside the perimeter, took shots and ran back out?

That's essentially the same as shooting from outside.
I'm confused.

We were told that the shooter was just outside of the perimeter shooting at people inside the perimeter. A witness said that they got out of the SUV and started shooting. It seems to me that it would have been a fast and easy getaway.

It's quite possible that there were no witnesses close to this guy, and this is happening at 2:30am.
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Old 21st June 2020, 03:49 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Unfortunately, the information about white men was in a comment on this article, made by someone at the scene. They've now closed comments on the article so there's nothing left. The SUV is covered in the article though.

https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2...zone-shooting/
I'm sure the details will emerge but in the meantime something on the 911 call does represent a contemporary witness.
Quote:
UPDATE: A security employee working in the area reported the shooter had been in a black SUV that arrived in the area on E Pine. A 911 caller told police a man carried a rifle out of the SUV before gunfire erupted, according to East Precinct radio updates. The man who was killed was hit by multiple shots on the southwest corner of E Pine in front of the Odd Fellows building. Camp security was reported following the suspect after the shooting. There have been no reported arrests by police.
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Old 21st June 2020, 03:52 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm confused.

We were told that the shooter was just outside of the perimeter shooting at people inside the perimeter. A witness said that they got out of the SUV and started shooting. It seems to me that it would have been a fast and easy getaway.

It's quite possible that there were no witnesses close to this guy, and this is happening at 2:30am.
Maybe you misunderstood my post.

Had a couple people inside got into an argument and shots were fired, I think people in the camp would have either tried to stop/detain the shooter or at least follow them.

An outsider to the camp, OTOH, would not have garnered the same response.

As for it being 2:30am, I'm sure there would have been more than a few people up and about.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

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Old 21st June 2020, 04:23 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Maybe you misunderstood my post.

Had a couple people inside got into an argument and shots were fired, I think people in the camp would have either tried to stop/detain the shooter or at least follow them.
Agreed with caveats.


Quote:
An outsider to the camp, OTOH, would not have garnered the same response.

As for it being 2:30am, I'm sure there would have been more than a few people up and about.
Look Ginger, once he gets back in that SUV, which is ready to be driven away, nobody is going to stop him unless they put a bullet in his head as he drives away at 30mph and increasing rapidly. Anybody getting in the way of that SUV is going to be mowed down and then he is gone.

We know that he had the rifle and can use it against anyone trying to mob or detain him. He may also have a pistol in a holster he is wearing when he gets out of the SUV (in case of close-range mobbing) or one waiting in the SUV for instant use.

If it was a CHOP outsider "Proud Boy Rambo type" with a plan then he would have insured that he could get away without a problem.
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Old 21st June 2020, 05:40 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Agreed with caveats.



Look Ginger, once he gets back in that SUV, which is ready to be driven away, nobody is going to stop him unless they put a bullet in his head as he drives away at 30mph and increasing rapidly. Anybody getting in the way of that SUV is going to be mowed down and then he is gone.

We know that he had the rifle and can use it against anyone trying to mob or detain him. He may also have a pistol in a holster he is wearing when he gets out of the SUV (in case of close-range mobbing) or one waiting in the SUV for instant use.

If it was a CHOP outsider "Proud Boy Rambo type" with a plan then he would have insured that he could get away without a problem.
You're still not reading what I wrote, or you are picturing something else.

Of course no one would stop him once he was in an SUV driving away. Where'd you get the idea that's what I was saying?


Anyway, enough of that. There's a video out. Witness says lots of people were "partying" in the street, some fire crackers went off, then a slew of shots. The witness with the camera ran to his car and left, fearing the gun shots.

He thought is was a gang related shooting. But from the video, he didn't have an actual view of the shooting. He was going by what was going on before the shots rang out. So a lot of that account needs a grain of salt. But you can see it was busy with people.
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Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

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Old 21st June 2020, 06:00 PM   #271
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FB page with > hour video of the scene

So far it looks like the beginning is just after the shooting, but I paused it after a few minutes after a discussion about people shooting in the air. I plan to watch more later.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 04:12 AM   #272
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Doesn't that just prove though that the protesters are like everybody else; they need some police protection? Not (necessarily) yet from internal problems, but guess what? Your local cops are there to protect you from cretins from the outside as well.
Police generally aren't that good at preventing drive-by or brief surprise attack shootings outside of the CHOP. People regularly commit these kinds of crimes elsewhere. The best someone can hope for from the police is that they will identify and arrest the shooter after the fact.

Recent history in the US shows that surprise attack shooters, including mass shooters who make no attempt to escape or evade police, have very little problems committing their crimes if they manage to keep their mouths shut before hand.

Short of putting up a walled border with armed guards and patrols, I don't really see how the CHOP can defend itself from reactionary right wingers intending to do violence like this.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 06:46 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Believe me, I too am anxiously awaiting evidence of the van rumor.

So far though, it does appear the shots came from the outside to the inside given anyone shooting within CHOP would have been mobbed and detained as happened with other incidents.
Perhaps this puts the rumor to rest:

Quote:
A group from ‘CHOP’ released a statement about the shootings, reading in part “it seems the situation escalated because of gang affiliations” in regards to the deadly shooting. It finished by reading “we still want what we wanted from day one, justice for all.”
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Old 22nd June 2020, 06:53 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I'm curious how people in the CHOP would know this, but I don't see why this would be implausible.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 06:57 AM   #275
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A much better book is that one with the Proud Boy shooter.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 07:09 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm curious how people in the CHOP would know this, but I don't see why this would be implausible.
It could be as simple as seeing gang signs flashed (usually a hand(s) thing) or "gang words" being yelled.

It might have been immediately apparent to many people that this was a gang hitman.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 07:19 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm curious how people in the CHOP would know this, but I don't see why this would be implausible.
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It could be as simple as seeing gang signs flashed (usually a hand(s) thing) or "gang words" being yelled.

It might have been immediately apparent to many people that this was a gang hitman.
That, and gangs tend to be local, they often know each other. Even rivals from different gangs often grew up near each other and know each other's names. There's a good chance the victims or those with them saw and recognized the shooter or people with the shooters.

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Old 22nd June 2020, 08:02 AM   #278
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Anyone who deduced that they had just seen another murderous gang hit would also then know that the shooter is essentially guaranteed to not be white. This is the same for any intended victim(s). They are not white either. You don't even have to look at the involved parties to know. Once you know it's gang then you know they ain't white.

A sage observer at CHOP might offer...

Yeah man what we just saw here that's what those Proud Boy supremacist do. You see it on the news. But this here was black or brown boys and man this stuff happens every day around here and other parts of Seattle. It's like a killing machine that don't never stop and don't never sleep. Those white supremacists don't nearly kill or wreck that many all the time. Man it ain't even a close. I can hear some of you saying it was Proud Boy. It wasn't. What you saw was the shooter, somebody who ain't white, doing a killing because they are too proud of their gang. They just exactly like a Proud Boy but they ain't white and they kill so often that it's like the white killers ain't even a pimple compare.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 10:35 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm curious how people in the CHOP would know this, but I don't see why this would be implausible.
Usually it's not some big secret who is a gang member and if he was the only one who was shot after some arguement it's a pretty safe bet that it was gang related.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 11:10 AM   #280
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So no rusty pick up with a confederate flag in the back window and banjo music blaring from the AM radio shooting up those damn hippies at "the summer of love" ?

I figured as much since somebody obviously saw what happened with the SUV yet, somehow, we weren't given a description of the shooter.

There's been a second shooting. I can post a fox news link for anybody who wants to believe that it didn't happen.
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