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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 19th June 2020, 02:38 PM   #241
Captain_Swoop
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Trump Tweets

Why are Democrats and unions working against life-changing school choice for underserved children? President Trump supports SCHOOL CHOICE! #SchoolChoiceNow
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Old 19th June 2020, 02:39 PM   #242
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Trump Tweets

I just spoke to the highly respected Mayor of Tulsa, G.T. Bynum, who informed me there will be no curfew tonight or tomorrow for our many supporters attending the #MAGA Rally. Enjoy yourselves - thank you to Mayor Bynum!
@gtbynum
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Old 19th June 2020, 02:42 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
That's actually very common...

In several polls, the number of people who plan to vote for biden is much higher than the number of people who think Biden will win.

Maybe its a good thing for the Democrats... desperation may drive people to the polls. (As long as it doesn't make them defeatist and decide to stay home.)
My feeling (and I could be wrong) is many Democrats didn't bother voting in 2016 because they saw Hilllary as a shoe-in, and won't make the same mistake again this year.
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Old 19th June 2020, 02:50 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
My feeling (and I could be wrong) is many Democrats didn't bother voting in 2016 because they saw Hilllary as a shoe-in, and won't make the same mistake again this year.
A fundamental flaw in her campaign is that her tone was "I deserve to win and I'm sure to win." There's no doubt that some of her supporters stayed home. If she had made speeches in Detroit and Milwaukee and a few other cities in the last week of the campaign and said "I need every vote! I need your vote!" history would be different.

Last edited by Bob001; 19th June 2020 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 19th June 2020, 02:56 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The law and the constitution are two things.
No, the laws are passed by Congress in accordance with the principles of the Constitution. The basic premise of the Constitution is that the details of government would be left to the Congress, and the courts determine whether legislation violates Constitutional principles. What is the claim here?
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Old 19th June 2020, 03:02 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
No, the laws are passed by Congress in accordance with the principles of the Constitution. The basic premise of the Constitution is that the details of government would be left to the Congress, and the courts determine whether legislation violates Constitutional principles. What is the claim here?
I don't dismiss this. But the Constitution says the President appoints judges. The Constitution is the supreme law of the land.
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Old 19th June 2020, 03:13 PM   #247
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No, the President *nominates* judges. Justices must be confirmed by vote. How do you think so many judge benches were left empty during Obama's term? Votes were not held.
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Old 19th June 2020, 03:31 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
The Latest Swing State Polls Look Good For Biden We can't be complacent but I also can't imagine him winning. The worrisome thing is, I felt exactly the same way in 2016
Caveat: ZERO complacency here.

But, here are a couple of 2016 differences that I think are relevant, and offer a sliver of hope that this nightmare can end:
  • The Democrats had no idea just how many people hated Hillary Clinton. They still don't. A huge number of otherwise likely Democratic voters wanted something quite different (Bernie Sanders). Millions of middle-aged folks like me were rolling our eyes at her nomination but millions of Millennials were seething with anger at that nomination. Biden is another eyeroll candidate for many likely Democratic voters, but he is nowhere near reviled as Clinton was/is.
  • Eight years of pretty good times from Obama had people feeling that it was a decent time to take a chance on someone "outside the establishment", i.e., Trump (or for quite a few Americans, Gary Johnson). They assumed Clinton would win and we'd get status quo or, if by some miracle Trump won we could see what it'd be like to have a non-politician be president. How bad could it be? Now a few years into this Trumpian crapstorm, most folks understand how quickly things can go South.
Note I'm not rationalizing the hatred against Clinton nor the ignorance of the danger of handing the reins to a clown like Trump. That's just how things were. We don't have that this time.
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Old 19th June 2020, 04:13 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Why are Democrats and unions working against life-changing school choice for underserved children? President Trump supports SCHOOL CHOICE! #SchoolChoiceNow
Looks like DeVos figured out how to use Twitter and PMd Herr Gropenfuhrer.
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Old 19th June 2020, 04:14 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
I have seen a few articles that basically go down that road. 538 has this article: The Latest Swing State Polls Look Good For Biden We can't be complacent but I also can't imagine him winning. The worrisome thing is, I felt exactly the same way in 2016

Yes, that's why I said "There are some who post links to polls that suggest he'll lose, in hopes of not letting people succumb to cynicism and defeatism, but that's not the same as counting him out." Analyzing polling data to see if Biden is on the right track isn't "counting Trump out".



Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
That's actually very common...

In several polls, the number of people who plan to vote for Biden is much higher than the number of people who think Biden will win.

Maybe its a good thing for the Democrats... desperation may drive people to the polls. (As long as it doesn't make them defeatist and decide to stay home.)

My concern is exactly that. Turnout is going to be a key factor in this election, and the "Trump is unstoppable/will steal the election/the Dems will find a way to lose" narratives lead directly to despair.

What I'm looking for is "Cautious optimism". The poll numbers look good, but it can still blow up in our faces if we get complacent or give in to despair.

And as I said, I've seen a lot of despair, but no "counting Trump out". That trope is just a part of the "Dems will find a way to lose" narrative; a part I think is almost entirely made up.
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Old 19th June 2020, 04:26 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Caveat: ZERO complacency here.

But, here are a couple of 2016 differences that I think are relevant, and offer a sliver of hope that this nightmare can end:
  • The Democrats had no idea just how many people hated Hillary Clinton. They still don't. A huge number of otherwise likely Democratic voters wanted something quite different (Bernie Sanders). Millions of middle-aged folks like me were rolling our eyes at her nomination but millions of Millennials were seething with anger at that nomination. Biden is another eyeroll candidate for many likely Democratic voters, but he is nowhere near reviled as Clinton was/is.
  • Eight years of pretty good times from Obama had people feeling that it was a decent time to take a chance on someone "outside the establishment", i.e., Trump (or for quite a few Americans, Gary Johnson). They assumed Clinton would win and we'd get status quo or, if by some miracle Trump won we could see what it'd be like to have a non-politician be president. How bad could it be? Now a few years into this Trumpian crapstorm, most folks understand how quickly things can go South.
Note I'm not rationalizing the hatred against Clinton nor the ignorance of the danger of handing the reins to a clown like Trump. That's just how things were. We don't have that this time.
I'd like to emphasize the distinction between a candidate's appeal due to promises spoken or implied, versus a candidate with a political history. Trump was a Rorschach for many voters, seeing what they wanted to see in vagueness, which led to a lot of benefit of the doubt.

I'll give you a specific example. I have a friend in the states who absolutely thought Trump was the LGBT candidate. And why not? Trump wrote about extending the Civil Rights Act of 1964 protected classes to sexual orientation as a Libertarian no brainer in The America We Deserve. Right, there in black and white. He has a signed copy.

When I ask this person if he thinks he made the right call... crickets.

Times, concievably, ten million people.
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Old 19th June 2020, 04:30 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
No, the laws are passed by Congress in accordance with the principles of the Constitution. The basic premise of the Constitution is that the details of government would be left to the Congress, and the courts determine whether legislation violates Constitutional principles. What is the claim here?
You're completely missing the point. That a law establishes something doesn't counter the claim that the Constitution doesn't establish this thing.

It's quite simple.
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Old 19th June 2020, 04:37 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
.....
My concern is exactly that. Turnout is going to be a key factor in this election, and the "Trump is unstoppable/will steal the election/the Dems will find a way to lose" narratives lead directly to despair.
....
"Will steal election" is a legtimate concern if you consider the Repubs' extensive voter suppression efforts. They don't need to win votes; they just need to keep Democrats from voting against them.
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Old 19th June 2020, 04:52 PM   #254
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Facebook deleted Trump’s 'doctored' CNN video entirely due to a copyright claim filed by the toddler’s parent. Now Twitter has done the same.
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Old 19th June 2020, 05:14 PM   #255
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FOr the record, the Constituion leaves the number of Supreme Court Justices for the congress to establish. The number has gone up and down in US History;it was orginally 5.
All it would take to increase the number of justices is a simple majority vote in each house;no 2/3 or super majority needed.
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Old 19th June 2020, 05:19 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You're completely missing the point. That a law establishes something doesn't counter the claim that the Constitution doesn't establish this thing.
....
Sure. But the fact that the Constitution doesn't mention something doesn't mean that the laws passed by Congress are unconstitutional. The fact that the Constitution doesn't establish the number of justices or federal judges doesn't mean that the laws that do so somehow run counter to the Constitution. That seems to be what's being argued.
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Old 19th June 2020, 05:20 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

Why are Democrats and unions working against life-changing school choice for underserved children? President Trump supports SCHOOL CHOICE! #SchoolChoiceNow
"School Choice", in Republican-speak, means giving tax money to racist, anti-science, right wing religious schools.
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Old 19th June 2020, 05:22 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Facebook deleted Trumpís 'doctored' CNN video entirely due to a copyright claim filed by the toddlerís parent. Now Twitter has done the same.
CENSORSHIP! THEY ARE TOTALLY VIOLATING THE FIRST AMENDMENT! GET RID OF SECTION 230!
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Old 19th June 2020, 05:29 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
CENSORSHIP! THEY ARE TOTALLY VIOLATING THE FIRST AMENDMENT! GET RID OF SECTION 230!
Smms to me Facebook has a right to decide what is allows and what it does not allow...as much as I might disagree with the individual decisiions.
Anyway the days when Facebook dominated social media is over. Too many competing formats.
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Old 19th June 2020, 05:57 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
No, the President *nominates* judges. Justices must be confirmed by vote. How do you think so many judge benches were left empty during Obama's term? Votes were not held.
Yes, you are right. I still hold that the Constitution doesn't say anything limiting the number of SCOTUS jurists.
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Old 19th June 2020, 05:57 PM   #261
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I'm actually amazed that Fakebook acted before Twitter. Then again, they are terrified of DMCA.
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Old 19th June 2020, 05:58 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yes, you are right. I still hold that the Constitution doesn't say anything limiting the number of SCOTUS jurists.
It doesn't. But legislation passed by the Congress does.
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Old 19th June 2020, 06:05 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
"School Choice", in Republican-speak, means giving tax money to racist, anti-science, right wing religious schools.
That is the crux of the matter. "School Choice" really means "I want to send my kid to a church school and let the tax payers fund it." Church schools aren't public; they're private. If you want your kid to go to a private school, great. But pay for it yourself.
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Old 19th June 2020, 06:25 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
It doesn't. But legislation passed by the Congress does.
I know that. I'm just saying that has never been challenged.
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Old 19th June 2020, 06:36 PM   #265
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I'm predicting there's going to be violence in Tulsa tomorrow.
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Old 19th June 2020, 06:42 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That is the crux of the matter. "School Choice" really means "I want to send my kid to a church school and let the tax payers fund it." Church schools aren't public; they're private. If you want your kid to go to a private school, great. But pay for it yourself.
Yep. But not just church schools, but any private school. Imagine Bill Gates's and other wealthy children getting money to send their children to Lakeside Academy.
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:03 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yes, you are right. I still hold that the Constitution doesn't say anything limiting the number of SCOTUS jurists.
You are right,it does'nt. It giver the congress the right to determine the number of Supreme Court Justices. It was originally five. All it takes to change is a simple majority in both houses of congress.
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:04 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I'm predicting there's going to be violence in Tulsa tomorrow.
That is not a very risky prediction. Question is how bad it is going to get.
I spent some time In Tulsa when I was in the US Army stationed at Fort Sill. I was allways happy to get back to base. That is the kind of place Tulsa is.
OKC I liked, though.
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:06 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yep. But not just church schools, but any private school. Imagine Bill Gates's and other wealthy children getting money to send their children to Lakeside Academy.
If you want to pay money to s end your kids to a private school, that is your right as a parent,and I have no problem with that, but don't ask me as a US Taxpayer to foot the bill.
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:07 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That is not a very risky prediction. Question is how bad it is going to get.
I spent some time In Tulsa when I was in the US Army stationed at Fort Sill. I was allways happy to get back to base. That is the kind of place Tulsa is.
OKC I liked, though.
I'm sure it will all be from the protesters' side because they'll be full of agitators, Antifa and lowlifes.
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:18 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Caveat: ZERO complacency here...

Note I'm not rationalizing the hatred against Clinton nor the ignorance of the danger of handing the reins to a clown like Trump. That's just how things were. We don't have that this time.
Granted the Republican smear campaign hasn't spent 30 years destroying Biden, but they can still do a lot even in just 4 months. Our best hope is that this time democrats take her message seriously - we really do need to stop Trump no matter what we think of the other candidate.

And we will need a lot more than just the popular vote to do it. Expect unprecedented interference at the ballot box, dirty tricks and corruption at all levels to suppress democrat votes. ZERO complacency is essential...
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:18 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You are right,it does'nt. It giver the congress the right to determine the number of Supreme Court Justices. It was originally five. All it takes to change is a simple majority in both houses of congress.
All it takes is a simple majority in the Senate and a receptive court.
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:37 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Not sure if that would be such a good idea.

There are already lengthy delays in cases being decided in the supreme court. Adding another level of appeals before a case actually reaches the top might drag things out longer, and the new court won't have the same precedent-setting ability.
No, no not another level, just another court at the same level.

I don't think there is a backlog at the Supremes. They are the only court (that I know of) that gets to decide whether to hear a case. If the grant certiorar (agree to hear a case) or not and those that are taken are decided in that term.

At least that is my understanding. Can any ISF sharks clarify.
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:40 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
What I'm looking for is "Cautious optimism". The poll numbers look good, but it can still blow up in our faces if we get complacent or give in to despair.
Wait, Canadians can now vote for the President of the USA? Where can I get my mail-in ballot? Does it have to be from a border state or can I choose which race I want to vote in?
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:41 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
All it takes is a simple majority in the Senate and a receptive court.
An act to change the number of justices must originate in the House. Unless the House and Senate are controlled by the same party, it isn't going to happen.
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:46 PM   #276
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Wait, Canadians can now vote for the President of the USA? Where can I get my mail-in ballot? Does it have to be from a border state or can I choose which race I want to vote in?
You have to be willing to wear a different hat when you vote.

If you have more than 1 hat you can vote multiple times.

(I myself am Canadian too and I often almost make the mistake of connecting myself to the u.s. system. Guess it's a combination of the current dullness of the Canadian system along with the influence of the u.s. economically and socially.)

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Old 19th June 2020, 07:47 PM   #277
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
An act to change the number of justices must originate in the House. Unless the House and Senate are controlled by the same party, it isn't going to happen.
Think about this Stacy. Imagine say Trump wanting to pack the court. He nominates justices and the Republican Senate approves those justices and Chief Justice Roberts administers their oath. How do you stop that?
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:52 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
What's established about it? When you walk, one of your legs is on the ground, and that one isn't supposed to be moving. On the video, that leg seemed to be slightly slipping downwards, which is why I said it was possible.
It was a warm June day filled with sunshine. The place where the event took place was a grassy field. Reporters noted that walking around on the grass did not get their shoes wet. I aver that if the grassy field was dry so was the hard surface of the ramp. Well, I suppose a groundskeeper could have sprayed the ramp with water just before Trump ended his speech.

I just think you laudable attempt to be fair went beyond what is reasonable. YMMV.
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:55 PM   #279
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Think about this Stacy. Imagine say Trump wanting to pack the court. He nominates justices and the Republican Senate approves those justices and Chief Justice Roberts administers their oath. How do you stop that?
You're asking me to entertain a conspiracy that the entire Senate would engage in blatantly breaking the process of passing a bill. No. Some are crap, but I do not believe the majority would stand for that. I don't think even most Republicans would tolerate that.

Sorry, but you're going off the deep end with this.
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Old 19th June 2020, 07:57 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You're asking me to entertain a conspiracy that the entire Senate would engage in blatantly breaking the process of passing a bill. No. Some are crap, but I do not believe the majority would stand for that. I don't think even most Republicans would tolerate that.

Sorry, but you're going off the deep end with this.
Maybe.
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