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Tags transgender incidents , transgender issues , transgender rights

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Old 23rd June 2020, 12:01 PM   #201
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I don't think anyone in this thread has expressed any of the caricatured comments that you've presented here.
To be fair, I agreed with one of them, and agreed it was self evident.

However, you are absolutely correct that it was a caricature. I wasn't in the mood to try and fix it so that it was something real. I didn't mean to agree with the caricature, but i think there is truth underlying the caricature.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 12:18 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
It's very difficult indeed to tell the sex of many mammals without quite close inspection of the genitals. That doesn't mean they aren't one or the other. Come to that, while many birds are extremely sexually dimorphic, many others require a five-year training course to tell them apart. They're still either male or female, one or the other.
Many animals, such as certain fish, can change genders during their lifetimes. Are they over their life times male? Or female? So they breed as one type one moment and a different one another moment. Does it matter that much? Except if you want to breed with them.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 12:23 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Many animals, such as certain fish, can change genders during their lifetimes.
No. They change their sex. They have no gender, that's a human social construct.

And mammals cannot do that, so I'm not sure what relevance this has to the current discussion.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 12:45 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Many animals, such as certain fish, can change genders during their lifetimes. Are they over their life times male? Or female? So they breed as one type one moment and a different one another moment. Does it matter that much? Except if you want to breed with them.

Fish don't have gender, they have sex.

Do read this.

https://twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/st...20326844506112

However, none of that happens in mammalian species. Man is a mammal, in case you hadn't noticed. (I follow one CAIS woman on Twitter who has "not a clownfish" in her bio.)

This too. https://sci-hub.tw/downloads-ii/2020...20-09877-8.pdf
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Old 23rd June 2020, 01:02 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
You have no more right to be protected from a man then I do.

Again I'm sick of this insulting demarcation.

"Not wanting a gay man in my locker room because he might rape me" is homophobic.

"Not wanting transgender people because they might sneak into a shared private space as the other gender and molest/rape me" is transphobic. <snip>
I agree with you.

I'm reminded of an anti-immigrant argument I've seen around.

Allowing immigration increases crime because some of the immigrants will commit crimes.

It doesn't matter if immigrants as a whole commit less crimes per capita than the native population because (cherry pick several reports of immigrants committing crimes) these particular crimes would not have happened if the immigrants had been kept out.

To me any argument that says trans-women should be kept out of women's spaces because the cis-women there might be fearful of them because (here is an example of when a trans-woman did something bad to a cis-woman) is the same as the anti-immigration argument.

The idea that if some members of a group do bad things then we must be wary of all members of that group doing the same bad thing is inherently discriminatory. It's literally the pre-judging in prejudiced.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 01:11 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
It doesn't matter if immigrants as a whole commit less crimes per capita than the native population because (cherry pick several reports of immigrants committing crimes) these particular crimes would not have happened if the immigrants had been kept out.
Are "immigrants" supposed to be the analogue to "people born with Y chromosomes" in this analogy? If so, I think I've found the problem.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 01:13 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
However, none of that happens in mammalian species. Man is a mammal, in case you hadn't noticed. (I follow one CAIS woman on Twitter who has "not a clownfish" in her bio.)

This too. https://sci-hub.tw/downloads-ii/2020...20-09877-8.pdf
Not so cut & dry.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...ng-like-males/
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Old 23rd June 2020, 01:15 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Are "immigrants" supposed to be the analogue to "people born with Y chromosomes" in this analogy? If so, I think I've found the problem.
They are an analogue to trans-women.

There are cis-women born with Y chromosomes.

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/swyer-syndrome
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Old 23rd June 2020, 01:17 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Because you have a smaller penis, you're closer to the 'woman' end of the spectrum than someone with a larger penis. You're 100% XY and 0% XX, but it's still a continuum because reasons."

"Also, canine-feline is a spectrum. A maine coon is actually more of a dog than a chihuahua."

"And don't forget that the Tu-95 is more of a jet airplane than the ERJ 140."

Turns out that size does matter after all. Take that, Yoda!

(And take that, less-endowed men everywhere. Having a small penis really does make you less of a man.)
Ah, you caught my point, if only greatly misunderstanding it once it was in your catcher’s mitt. My very point is genitalia do not determine if someone is male or female. There are some XYs with penises shorter than some XXs clitori. In fact these organs are derived during development from the same fetal tissue; they can go either way. Same is true of scrotums and labia. And they typically don’t go to two extreme endpoints but end up somewherein-between. So size doesn’t matter: it doesn’t make you male or female. A male with a small penis is not more of a female or less of a male. So gender must be defined by something else, right?

OK, it must be Xs and Ys, right? Yet not everyone gets XX or XY. Some get different mixes. It is not 100% as discussed upthread. And once one has a particular set thAtperson can still develop into a male or into a female.

So gender must be defined by something else, right? I vote that the most important thing is what someone believes themselves to be because that ultimately is how we all think about our own gender. I thought of myself as male long before I knew my karyotype. I don’t frequently check my pants to confirm my thinking. Great if one’s thinking matches ones genitals and ones karyotype, but sometimes it doesn’t.

Oh, Maine coon cats are nothing like dogs - they are cats by all criteria. There is no extant biological spectrum where they gradual become dogs. You are talking about totally separate species here. But if you want to go on with this insulting comparison please provide an example of a corn cat claiming that they see themselves as a dog and we can then discuss trans-species-ism. Or you can.

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Old 23rd June 2020, 01:29 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
I object to the term trans-girl. It has a lot more baggage than "transwoman" and carries overtones of the person actually being a girl when the whole point is that he is not. Effeminate youth is more like it.
Trans-girl sounds like a superhero, with the apparent super-power to compete and dominate in women's sports.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 01:45 PM   #211
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I recently came across these helpful definitions in my social feed which are supposed to help minimize or prevent microaggressions:

104324855_2069868743137875_4651957529250426865_o.jpg

104566892_2069868869804529_8565331648350383932_o.jpg

More here. (Cannot find the full collection on Instagram, oddly enough.)

Anyhow, I was wondering what definition of "man" fits both "trans man" and "cis man" as they are stipulatively defined here.

In other words, if "cis man" is a man assigned male at birth, and "trans man" is a man assigned female at birth, what underlying qualities (if any) make them both a man? What should the definition of "man" be in the lexicon of social justice?

(Choosing "man" since at least I've some sense of what that is like in terms of lived experience. Switch the question to "woman" if you prefer.)
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Old 23rd June 2020, 01:49 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post

And? They're still lionesses.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 01:55 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
They are an analogue to trans-women.

There are cis-women born with Y chromosomes.

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/swyer-syndrome

Also CAIS. They're still women. We've been over this before. Functional SRY gene and functional androgen receptors, male. Lack either of these, female. Swyer syndrome lacks a functional SRY gene and CAIS lacks androgen receptors.

Disorders of sexual deveopment, sometimes referred to as intersex conditions, are sex-specific genetic or developmental disorders of people who are still, all of them, either male or female. And quite a lot of them are getting very vocal about having their medical problems weaponised by the trans lobby and being co-opted into an alphabet soup they want nothing to do with.

For most people with a DSD it's particularly important to them to know and have others understand that they are indeed men and women, not some strange half-way house. Some of them even put things like "not a clownfish" in their twitter bios.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:15 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Ah, you caught my point, if only greatly misunderstanding it once it was in your catcher’s mitt. My very point is genitalia do not determine if someone is male or female. There are some XYs with penises shorter than some XXs clitori. In fact these organs are derived during development from the same fetal tissue; they can go either way. Same is true of scrotums and labia. And they typically don’t go to two extreme endpoints but end up somewherein-between. So size doesn’t matter: it doesn’t make you male or female. A male with a small penis is not more of a female or less of a male. So gender must be defined by something else, right?

OK, it must be Xs and Ys, right? Yet not everyone gets XX or XY. Some get different mixes. It is not 100% as discussed upthread. And once one has a particular set thAtperson can still develop into a male or into a female.

So gender must be defined by something else, right? I vote that the most important thing is what someone believes themselves to be because that ultimately is how we all think about our own gender. I thought of myself as male long before I knew my karyotype. I don’t frequently check my pants to confirm my thinking. Great if one’s thinking matches ones genitals and ones karyotype, but sometimes it doesn’t.

Oh, Maine coon cats are nothing like dogs - they are cats by all criteria. There is no extant biological spectrum where they gradual become dogs. You are talking about totally separate species here. But if you want to go on with this insulting comparison please provide an example of a corn cat claiming that they see themselves as a dog and we can then discuss trans-species-ism. Or you can.
I think this argument confuses necessary and sufficient conditions. There are ordinary, common, karyotypes, and those often go with certain configurations of genitalia, but there are exceptions. So, I think your conclusion is that "gender must be defined by something else, right?" As if somehow the existence of the exceptions make karyotypes and genitals irrelevant to the classification.

I have said it in the past, but I'll repeat. If person A and person B are capable of engaging in sexual intercourse with the result that person B becomes pregnant, then person A is a male and person B is a female. There are no exceptions. It is a sufficient condition for determining sex.

From there, you can pretty much work out almost everyone else. There are a few exceptions, but not many.

Of course, that is talking about the male or female sex. If, instead, you want to talk about a male or female gender, it seems to me that it could mean whatever you want it to mean. It used to mean "sex", but now we're working on finding a new definitions.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:19 PM   #215
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Actually there aren't really any exceptions now that they've got good at looking carefully at babies with apparently ambiguous genitalia instead of saying "let's just bring it up as a girl."
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:23 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I am willing to believe that “not willing to accept it” is different from “debunked.”
No it's been debunked alright, some people certainly seem unwilling to accept that though.

Quote:
Humans do produce two types of gametes. Big deal; that does not make sexual development binary. It’s not that simple.
Yes it is, the type of gametes produced by an organism defines its sex, nothing more and nothing less.

Quote:
But more so how can one look at the range of phenotypes produced even by XY and XX humans and say sex is binary?
That's easy, by understanding that sex is defined as 'the type of gamete produced' and not as "the range of phenotypes produced" and simply ignoring your irrelevant appeals to "phenotypes" and what-not.

Please answer the following questions:

1) Do you know what a definition is?

2) Do you know what the difference is between a variable (say height or phenotype) correlated with a property (say species or sex) and the definition of said property (say gamete type produced or ability of interbreeding with other organisms of said species).

3) If the answer to 2 is no, as it appears to be, are you also saying that species is a spectrum because the distribution of heights (a phenotype variable correlated with, but not defining, species) of cats and dogs overlap?
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:31 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Are you claiming lions change sex? Fascinating.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:53 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No. They change their sex. They have no gender, that's a human social construct.

And mammals cannot do that, so I'm not sure what relevance this has to the current discussion.
As well as it supporting sex being binary rather than refuting it, since the fish are said to switch between male and female (2 sexes) and not some continuum of them.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:58 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think this argument confuses necessary and sufficient conditions. There are ordinary, common, karyotypes, and those often go with certain configurations of genitalia, but there are exceptions. So, I think your conclusion is that "gender must be defined by something else, right?" As if somehow the existence of the exceptions make karyotypes and genitals irrelevant to the classification.

I have said it in the past, but I'll repeat. If person A and person B are capable of engaging in sexual intercourse with the result that person B becomes pregnant, then person A is a male and person B is a female. There are no exceptions. It is a sufficient condition for determining sex.

From there, you can pretty much work out almost everyone else. There are a few exceptions, but not many.

Of course, that is talking about the male or female sex. If, instead, you want to talk about a male or female gender, it seems to me that it could mean whatever you want it to mean. It used to mean "sex", but now we're working on finding a new definitions.
You realize this whole conversation is about people who are the exception, right? So dismissing the exceptions makes no sense.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 02:59 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
No it's been debunked alright, some people certainly seem unwilling to accept that though.



Yes it is, the type of gametes produced by an organism defines its sex, nothing more and nothing less.



That's easy, by understanding that sex is defined as 'the type of gamete produced' and not as "the range of phenotypes produced" and simply ignoring your irrelevant appeals to "phenotypes" and what-not.

Please answer the following questions:

1) Do you know what a definition is?

2) Do you know what the difference is between a variable (say height or phenotype) correlated with a property (say species or sex) and the definition of said property (say gamete type produced or ability of interbreeding with other organisms of said species).

3) If the answer to 2 is no, as it appears to be, are you also saying that species is a spectrum because the distribution of heights (a phenotype variable correlated with, but not defining, species) of cats and dogs overlap?
1. Sure.

2. I listed several properties of gender that typically used to define gender but that are variables. Gamete type of able to interbreed with others in a species? What of those that never could or no longer produce gametes at all? No gender at all?

3. Height has never been used to define a species uniquely. Genitalia, chromosomes, hormone levels have been used to define gender, yet these are overlapping variables.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:01 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Are you claiming lions change sex? Fascinating.
What if the idea of sex is not so simple as to be able to easily apply the word “change” to it?
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:03 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Actually there aren't really any exceptions now that they've got good at looking carefully at babies with apparently ambiguous genitalia instead of saying "let's just bring it up as a girl."
I think you give doctors way too much credit for this. There are still many children who are assigned to one gender at birth who, when they go through puberty, are clearly misaligned.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:06 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
What if the idea of sex is not so simple as to be able to easily apply the word “change” to it?
It kind of is really.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:07 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
And? They're still lionesses.
Who look and act like males, up to and including roaring, scent marking, and mounting females.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:11 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
1. Sure.

2. I listed several properties of gender that typically used to define gender but that are variables. Gamete type of able to interbreed with others in a species? What of those that never could or no longer produce gametes at all? No gender at all?

3. Height has never been used to define a species uniquely. Genitalia, chromosomes, hormone levels have been used to define gender, yet these are overlapping variables.
Ok, I should've probably started with this question instead:

- Do you know the difference between sex and gender?

What you claimed was that sex (even specifying "biological sex" - as if there's any other) is not binary, now you're talking about how gender may or may not have been defined. Yet that makes no difference on the definition of sex, which is defined by the gamete type produced. Making sex a binary of either male or female, and hence 4 possibilities for an organism: male (sperm-producing), female (ova-producing), neither (some intersex would go here) or both (no humans in here, but some other species have this).

The fact that some continuous variables may be correlated with sex (for example different overlapping distributions of size for male and female) does not stop sex from being binary (there being only male and female), for exactly the same reason that the fact that some continuous variables may be correlated with species (for example different overlapping distributions of body height for cats and dogs) does not stop species from being discrete (there being only cats and dogs).
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:14 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Also CAIS. They're still women. We've been over this before. Functional SRY gene and functional androgen receptors, male. Lack either of these, female. Swyer syndrome lacks a functional SRY gene and CAIS lacks androgen receptors.

Disorders of sexual deveopment, sometimes referred to as intersex conditions, are sex-specific genetic or developmental disorders of people who are still, all of them, either male or female. And quite a lot of them are getting very vocal about having their medical problems weaponised by the trans lobby and being co-opted into an alphabet soup they want nothing to do with.

For most people with a DSD it's particularly important to them to know and have others understand that they are indeed men and women, not some strange half-way house. Some of them even put things like "not a clownfish" in their twitter bios.
I agree, they are women. But they are XYs. They have internal testis. They produce sperm, although infertile ones (as do many cis men). So why do you not shoehorn them into the male category given the definitions you and others have cited here?

Yes it is crucial for people wit a DSD to feel confident of their gender/sex. Same for other people who sincerely believe in their own gender/sex whatever their karyotype, gonads and gametes might suggest.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:15 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It kind of is really.
Thus ignoring all the points I and others have presented here.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:23 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Thus ignoring all the points I and others have presented here.
Do you at least accept gender and sex are different things?
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:26 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Ok, I should've probably started with this question instead:

- Do you know the difference between sex and gender?

What you claimed was that sex (even specifying "biological sex" - as if there's any other) is not binary, now you're talking about how gender may or may not have been defined. Yet that makes no difference on the definition of sex, which is defined by the gamete type produced. Making sex a binary of either male or female, and hence 4 possibilities for an organism: male (sperm-producing), female (ova-producing), neither (some intersex would go here) or both (no humans in here, but some other species have this).

The fact that some continuous variables may be correlated with sex (for example different overlapping distributions of size for male and female) does not stop sex from being binary (there being only male and female), for exactly the same reason that the fact that some continuous variables may be correlated with species (for example different overlapping distributions of body height for cats and dogs) does not stop species from being discrete (there being only cats and dogs).
I prefer to use the term gender to distinguish it from the act of procreation itself. Fine, if more confusing, to restrict the term sex to the ability to produce a given gamete.

So post-menopause “women” have no sex? Infertile “men” have no sex? Wasn’t this discussed way upthread?

Didn’t I just reply to your argument about overlapping genitalia size and overlapping species size? I argued that neither were good ways to distinguish sexes or to distinguish many species because they do overlap. So just looking at genitalia fails to fully define someone as male or female, though so many people think this is a crucial determinant trait. Maybe we are agreed on this point?

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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:29 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Do you at least accept gender and sex are different things?
They are different properties that are defined in different ways. I think for most people gender is the broader, more important property in defining themselves (and who they might most wish to have sex with). But I am happy to discuss either.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:35 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
They are different properties that are defined in different ways. I think for most people gender is the broader, more important property in defining themselves (and who they might most wish to have sex with). But I am happy to discuss either.
You are adding sexual preference into the equation.

From my admittedly lacking in science understanding

You have

Sex - biological m/f and a very low amount of anomolies at birth

Gender - what your brain thinks you should be sex wise.

Sexual preference - who you want to shag
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:36 PM   #232
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I still don’t see why this is such an issue with so many posters. To me it’s much like debating if viruses are alive or not. It depends on the definitions one chooses to apply and one”s own subjective viewpoints. Except the virus debate doesn’t generate so much emotion. Except unlike the virus debate sex/gender definitions are important in real life to the happiness of many, many trans-gender people.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:37 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You are adding sexual preference into the equation.

From my admittedly lacking in science understanding

You have

Sex - biological m/f and a very low amount of anomolies at birth

Gender - what your brain thinks you should be sex wise.

Sexual preference - who you want to shag
Notice the smiley next to this part of my answer?

Last edited by zooterkin; 23rd June 2020 at 10:47 PM. Reason: Broken quote tag
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Old 23rd June 2020, 03:42 PM   #234
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Got to go for now.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 04:09 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I prefer to use the term gender to distinguish it from the act of procreation itself. Fine, if more confusing, to restrict the term sex to the ability to produce a given gamete.
Well what you claimed was that biological sex was not binary, not that gender was not binary. How could it be more confusing to use the terms sex and gender properly as defined in their respective fields, rather than interchangeably in some vague personal way?

Quote:
So post-menopause “women” have no sex? Infertile “men” have no sex?
Well yeah, post-menopause women do not engage in sexual reproduction (or asexual reproduction for that matter) and neither do infertile men, that much seems obvious. If you want to argue that puts them into the "neither" category from above then sure, you could do so. I suppose you could also argue that, given that humans don't change sex over their lifetime, a woman remains a female organism even after entering menopause. Which, btw, again supports sex being a binary since there are 4 categories (male, female, neither, both) and 4 = 2^2.

Quote:
Wasn’t this discussed way upthread?
Yes, many times already. Sex wasn't a spectrum back then and it still isn't one now.

Quote:
Didn’t I just reply to your argument about overlapping genitalia size and overlapping species size? I argued that neither were good ways to distinguish sexes or to distinguish many species because they do overlap. So just looking at genitalia fails to fully define someone as male or female, though so many people think this is a crucial determinant trait. Maybe we are agreed on this point?
Sure. But if you agree that these (and other such phenotype varieties) are bad ways to distinguish sexes, then why did you bring them up? Just because you can come up with bad ways to distinguish sexes doesn't mean you can't distinguish sexes. I can come up with bad ways to distinguish English from French text, say by tossing a coin, but that doesn't mean that I am generally incapable of distinguishing between English and French text.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 04:41 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Nope, still completely cut and dry. Testosterone will induce some male traits in females, but they remain females regardless.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 04:46 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I've been mugged 3 times. Everytime it was a black man. Do I get to be racist now? What about the 4th time? The 5th?

What's the cutoff? When does one demographic do enough bad things to me that I get to dislike the whole demographic? When does one demographic do enough things to another demographic that it becomes the norm to just assume they'll do it.
I don't dislike men. I am, on the whole, rather fond of them. That doesn't change the fact that men, as a general group, represent a risk to women, as a general group. There's no bigotry or hatred involved here, but there is heightened risk. If I'm out alone I'm hyper aware of any men around me. There are places I won't go alone. If I work late, I'll ask security to walk me to my car.

If you want to deride me and mock me for being a "scawed widdle woman" then go ahead and do so. I think it's rather neanderthalish, but if that's how you need to cope go for it.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 04:48 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Men and women are the same except when they aren't except when they are except when they aren't except when they are except whenever women say so.

I'm almost at the point I'm declaring the whole "sex/gender" difference a coded way to get "Women are equal to men whenever that gives women an advantage, women and men aren't equal whenever that gives men an advantage" across without being too obvious about it.
I really never had you pegged for this viewpoint.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 04:55 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
To be fair, I agreed with one of them, and agreed it was self evident.

However, you are absolutely correct that it was a caricature. I wasn't in the mood to try and fix it so that it was something real. I didn't mean to agree with the caricature, but i think there is truth underlying the caricature.
Presumably the "I don't want that man near me" bit? There's a grain of truth in there, in that men are much more likely to be sexual aggressors than women are, and women are much more likely to be victims of sexual aggression. But on the whole, it's still an extreme caricature. There might be a verry few women out there who are afraid of all men all the time, and I'd be inclined to suggest that therapy would be in order for them. On the whole, women are careful and cognizant around strange men, and are well aware that they could be a danger to them. That's an every day part of being female. But it doesn't rise to anywhere near the level that JoeMorgue paraphrased it as.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 04:59 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I still don’t see why this is such an issue with so many posters. To me it’s much like debating if viruses are alive or not. It depends on the definitions one chooses to apply and one”s own subjective viewpoints. Except the virus debate doesn’t generate so much emotion. Except unlike the virus debate sex/gender definitions are important in real life to the happiness of many, many trans-gender people.
And I'm sure that flat definitions are important in real life to the happiness of flat-Earthers but that still doesn't make the proposition "the Earth is flat" evaluate to true, and people claiming it does do indeed get those claims challenged, such is life.

To me it's much like debating postmodernists has always been. Motte & Bailey tactics such as making an extraordinary claim like "biological sex is not binary" and then when challenged retreat into trivialities like "gender is not binary" or "not all women are exactly the same height, nor all men - aka continuous variables exist which are correlated with sex." And empty sophistry with appeals to changing the definitions of established scientific terms in order for said extraordinary claim to be true. And of course the appeals to social virtuousness (as opposed to sound argument and evidence) as a determining factor (special relativity was sexist after all for privileging the speed of light over all other speeds...maybe the speed of light is a spectrum too?).

And to top it all off there seems to be a very New Age kind of droning on regarding the term spectrum. It seems used the same way New Agers use "energy" or "vibration" - ie not actually meaning anything, just being a nice buzzword. "Sex is a spectrum" is, after all, not a definition of sex - it is a statement of the cardinality of sex (how many there supposedly are, in this case a continuum of them). Compare with "sex is the type of gamete produced" which doesn't just say "sex is binary" (ie there are two sexes) but actually defines the term sex. None of the arguments presenting the "sex is a spectrum" claim have actually defined sex, let alone shown it to be a spectrum. Hence the statement "sex is a spectrum" - even though appearing prominently in the sources given - seems to have no other function than buzzword exchange. "The universe is, like, vibrations man! Wow, pass the bong man!"
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