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Tags Washington DC issues , Washington DC politics

View Poll Results: Should DC get Statehood?
Yes. 61 84.72%
No. 11 15.28%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 27th June 2020, 03:18 PM   #1
Cain
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DC Statehood

Here's an issue that's long overdue. The standard argument is "no taxation without representation."

Democrats passed a measure in the House, so Republicans are having a fit. Their main complaint is that it's a "power grab." Classic projection.

Even if Pelosi wants more Democratic representatives/senators -- and I'm certain she does -- it's a matter of basic fairness. It's not unlike saying Republicans wanted to end slavery because newly freedmen would vote accordingly. The primary considerations here are liberty and equality.

The District currently has more people than Wyoming and Vermont, and will soon surpass Alaska and North Dakota.
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Old 27th June 2020, 03:23 PM   #2
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*Shrugs* Seems pretty cut and dry to me. They are citizens of the United States, they deserve reputation. More people live in DC then live in Wyoming or Vermont and I'll wager it will pass Alaska and maybe North Dakota by 2030. 2 Senators, a Representative, a Governor. No reason they shouldn't have them.

"But they'll all be Deeeemmmmiiie-crats!" is so far from any meaningful point that the light the point will take several years to reach it. And as long as Wyoming's 540,000 people get two Senators, the Republicans can shut up about Washington DC's 700,000 getting them.

And yes all of that applies to Puerto Rico as well.
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Old 27th June 2020, 03:41 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Here's an issue that's long overdue. The standard argument is "no taxation without representation."
Just something I've thought about in connection to this phrase before: It should probably be "effective representation." IOW, nonvoting representatives don't count and never have.
Quote:
Democrats passed a measure in the House, so Republicans are having a fit. Their main complaint is that it's a "power grab." Classic projection.
There's little question that both DC and Puerto Rico would heavily lean Democrat if they were states. It's funny (not really, not even a little bit) that the Republicans simply accept this and use it as a weapon against making them states rather than perhaps figuring out why the Republican agenda and record are so unappealing to these almost-but-not-quite citizens.
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Old 27th June 2020, 04:33 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Just something I've thought about in connection to this phrase before: It should probably be "effective representation." IOW, nonvoting representatives don't count and never have.

There's little question that both DC and Puerto Rico would heavily lean Democrat if they were states. It's funny (not really, not even a little bit) that the Republicans simply accept this and use it as a weapon against making them states rather than perhaps figuring out why the Republican agenda and record are so unappealing to these almost-but-not-quite citizens.
The Repubs went down that road a long time ago. The traditional way to win an election in the U.S. used to be to present plans and programs that would appeal the most voters. In different parts of the country there were conservative Democrats and moderate/liberal Republicans, and a majority of the voters were more-or-less middle-of-the-road. Then the Repubs adopted their extemist "our way is the only way" philosophy, and set about blocking anybody who wouldn't vote for them from voting at all. And it just keeps getting worse.
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Old 27th June 2020, 04:40 PM   #5
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It is only a municipality, no?
Better it be incorporated into an existing State than be a State of its own.

I think the concerns that kept it from being so in the first place are pretty irrelavent now.
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Old 27th June 2020, 04:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Here's an issue that's long overdue. The standard argument is "no taxation without representation."

Democrats passed a measure in the House, so Republicans are having a fit. Their main complaint is that it's a "power grab." Classic projection.

Even if Pelosi wants more Democratic representatives/senators -- and I'm certain she does -- it's a matter of basic fairness. It's not unlike saying Republicans wanted to end slavery because newly freedmen would vote accordingly. The primary considerations here are liberty and equality.

The District currently has more people than Wyoming and Vermont, and will soon surpass Alaska and North Dakota.
A reasonable alternative to D.C. statehood would be retrocession: The land area of D.C. would be returned to Maryland, which donated it originally, after reserving a federal enclave of the White House, the Capitol, etc. (Virginia took back the land it donated for the capital before the Civil War.) Retrocession would allow D.C. residents to vote for senators and representatives and participate in the multiple levels of Maryland government, from town council to state legislature to governor, would allow them to benefit from things like generally lower taxes and better services, and would eliminate Congressional oversight/interference. It's always surprised me that this isn't treated as a smart choice.
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Old 27th June 2020, 04:52 PM   #7
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I wish that protesters would make this a focal point. Denial of representation is denial of justice.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:02 PM   #8
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Were the poll to include “Not sure” or “Undecided” I would at this time tick that box.

Puerto Rico, however? Si.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Just something I've thought about in connection to this phrase before: It should probably be "effective representation." IOW, nonvoting representatives don't count and never have.
It's bitterly ironic because that's exactly what Great Britain said to the colonists: "You have virtual representation." In our House, DC has a single "shadow" representative.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A reasonable alternative to D.C. statehood would be retrocession: The land area of D.C. would be returned to Maryland, which donated it originally, after reserving a federal enclave of the White House, the Capitol, etc. (Virginia took back the land it donated for the capital before the Civil War.) Retrocession would allow D.C. residents to vote for senators and representatives and participate in the multiple levels of Maryland government, from town council to state legislature to governor, would allow them to benefit from things like generally lower taxes and better services, and would eliminate Congressional oversight/interference. It's always surprised me that this isn't treated as a smart choice.
Naturally, Republicans are making precisely this argument. The District has its own identity and culture apart from the state of Maryland. It's also long, long overdue for representation. But, hey, what the ****.... How would Republicans respond to unifying the Dakota territory? Why should "Wyoming" get TWO senators? Combine a bunch of western states.

Another alternative suggested by genius Jonah Goldberg is "Macau on the Potomac": Make it so DC does not have to pay federal taxes.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
It's bitterly ironic because that's exactly what Great Britain said to the colonists: "You have virtual representation." In our House, DC has a single "shadow" representative.



Naturally, Republicans are making precisely this argument. The District has its own identity and culture apart from the state of Maryland. It's also long, long overdue for representation. But, hey, what the ****.... How would Republicans respond to unifying the Dakota territory? Why should "Wyoming" get TWO senators? Combine a bunch of western states.

Another alternative suggested by genius Jonah Goldberg is "Macau on the Potomac": Make it so DC does not have to pay federal taxes.
Most cities have an identity separate from their States. That is not a convincing argument.
There is little connection between Philly and Central PA, or Detroit and just about any other part of MI. (The two cities I have spent most of my life in, as examples)

And honestly, are there not plenty of good reasons for the Sparsely inhabited Western States to be merged?

Making a nonsensical move for the sake of partisanship is a bad idea no matter who does it.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:35 PM   #11
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Puerto Rico indeed! More population than TWENTY actual states. Even after a fairly massive population decline since Hurricane Maria. Most of those people probably moved to states, where they can now vote for President. Go ahead and include the US Virgin Islands in that state. Call it the State of Carribea, if you wish.
While we're at it, how about Guam, American Samoa, and the Northern Marianas? State of Pacifica!
And while we're at it, just combine Montana, Wyoming, and both Dakotas into MonWyoDak. They still get the number of reps to which they are entitled, but just two Sens.
Oh, and revert Alaska to a territory. Give it a voting Rep if you wish, but no Sens.
How about up Northeast? Maine-Hamp-Mont!

I actually don't think any of the above is a bad idea. It's just not gonna happen.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Most cities have an identity separate from their States. That is not a convincing argument.
There is little connection between Philly and Central PA, or Detroit and just about any other part of MI. (The two cities I have spent most of my life in, as examples)

And honestly, are there not plenty of good reasons for the Sparsely inhabited Western States to be merged?

Making a nonsensical move for the sake of partisanship is a bad idea no matter who does it.
NYC equals at least half a dozen states combined in population. I'm not sure I want it to have even more influence, but it would be more fair.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Most cities have an identity separate from their States. That is not a convincing argument.
There is little connection between Philly and Central PA, or Detroit and just about any other part of MI. (The two cities I have spent most of my life in, as examples)
They have city identities in addition to their state identity. Now, of course, someone can identitfy more with their city than their state, or more with their state than their country (e.g., the autistic Bob).

Quote:
Making a nonsensical move for the sake of partisanship is a bad idea no matter who does it.
DC already has three votes in the Electoral College, and it's a city that has been denied representation in the national legislature. It's a bit of a strain to say this is like blinking out Wyoming. The intention of the argument was to reduce to absurdity.


Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
NYC equals at least half a dozen states combined in population. I'm not sure I want it to have even more influence, but it would be more fair.
This is an interesting point! Why not allow major cities to elect Senators? I believe Mexico, which has a state system and a bicameral legislature, allocates three upper-house seats to Mexico City. I thought it was weird when I first learned about it, but it makes sense (given the stupidity of an undemocratic/unrepresentative chamber).

In the case of NY, it would give greater representation to people up-state.
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Old 27th June 2020, 06:30 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
They have city identities in addition to their state identity. Now, of course, someone can identitfy more with their city than their state, or more with their state than their country (e.g., the autistic Bob).



DC already has three votes in the Electoral College, and it's a city that has been denied representation in the national legislature. It's a bit of a strain to say this is like blinking out Wyoming. The intention of the argument was to reduce to absurdity.




This is an interesting point! Why not allow major cities to elect Senators? I believe Mexico, which has a state system and a bicameral legislature, allocates three upper-house seats to Mexico City. I thought it was weird when I first learned about it, but it makes sense (given the stupidity of an undemocratic/unrepresentative chamber).

In the case of NY, it would give greater representation to people up-state.
Less than you might think.
People from cities rarely identify themselves by State.

When asked where they are from a Chicagoan will not answer "from Illinois".

I suspect someone from LosAngeles would respond similarly.

In fact, it seems most major metropolitan areas have an almost adversarial relationship with the States they are part of, I don't see why DC need be an exception.
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Old 27th June 2020, 06:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Most cities have an identity separate from their States. That is not a convincing argument.
There is little connection between Philly and Central PA, or Detroit and just about any other part of MI. (The two cities I have spent most of my life in, as examples)

And honestly, are there not plenty of good reasons for the Sparsely inhabited Western States to be merged?

Making a nonsensical move for the sake of partisanship is a bad idea no matter who does it.
Even if you're against DC statehood for some reason or another, rectifying a situation where people don't have equal representation is most certainly not nonsensical.
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Old 27th June 2020, 06:47 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Even if you're against DC statehood for some reason or another, rectifying a situation where people don't have equal representation is most certainly not nonsensical.
The nonsensical part is making a medium sized city into a State when merging it with an adjacent State rectifies the situation in a much simpler fashion.
Doesn't even need to be Maryland, making it a part of Virginia is just as rational- although the residents of Virginia may not be as happy about that.
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Old 27th June 2020, 07:01 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Less than you might think.
People from cities rarely identify themselves by State.

When asked where they are from a Chicagoan will not answer "from Illinois".

I suspect someone from LosAngeles would respond similarly.

In fact, it seems most major metropolitan areas have an almost adversarial relationship with the States they are part of, I don't see why DC need be an exception.
This is silly. Chicago is a well-known city. It's the Windy City. The Murder City. I've never been to Illinois, but I know about Chicago. Go Cubs. I know Illinois harvests a majority of the country's pumpkins, but I can't name any of those butt-**** towns, so if anybody mentions them, they know others are going to respond, "Huh??"

Also, people will say they're from Los Angeles even if they don't technically live in Los Angeles because what the hell do outsiders know about Montebello or Hawthorne? It's like a New Yorker telling me she lives in Flatbush. I have no idea what that means (except a character uttered it in a condescending way in the film Panic Room, but that was 20 years ago, so it's probably now an even more expensive neighborhood).

It's not a matter of people having an adversarial relationship with their states. I'm sure people all over Pennsylvania will talk **** about the "geniuses in Harrisburg." I wouldn't be surprised if the curriculum in Pittsburgh schools and central Pennsylvania (which has been likened to Alabama) generally spend more time discussing Ben Franklin than schools in New York City.
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Old 27th June 2020, 07:14 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The nonsensical part is making a medium sized city into a State when merging it with an adjacent State rectifies the situation in a much simpler fashion.
Doesn't even need to be Maryland, making it a part of Virginia is just as rational- although the residents of Virginia may not be as happy about that.
That too is sensical. Add DC to Virginia, make PR a state, merge the Dakotas ... I'm ok with that.
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Old 27th June 2020, 07:19 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
This is silly. Chicago is a well-known city. It's the Windy City. The Murder City. I've never been to Illinois, but I know about Chicago. Go Cubs. I know Illinois harvests a majority of the country's pumpkins, but I can't name any of those butt-**** towns, so if anybody mentions them, they know others are going to respond, "Huh??"

Also, people will say they're from Los Angeles even if they don't technically live in Los Angeles because what the hell do outsiders know about Montebello or Hawthorne? It's like a New Yorker telling me she lives in Flatbush. I have no idea what that means (except a character uttered it in a condescending way in the film Panic Room, but that was 20 years ago, so it's probably now an even more expensive neighborhood).

It's not a matter of people having an adversarial relationship with their states. I'm sure people all over Pennsylvania will talk **** about the "geniuses in Harrisburg." I wouldn't be surprised if the curriculum in Pittsburgh schools and central Pennsylvania (which has been likened to Alabama) generally spend more time discussing Ben Franklin than schools in New York City.
No.
People all over Pennsylvania will find themselves expressing resentment towards Philadelphia.
NY State residents resent NYC.
Illinois residents deride Chicago...etc.
And people in California not from Los Angeles undoubtedly express something along the lines of "who the hell do those freaks in LA think they are"

People in Cities identify far more with their cities than the States those cities are located in.
Suggesting that DC should not become part of Maryland or VA because the residents don't Identify strongly enough with those States (as you did earlier- provoking my response and this digression) is very weak- almost grasping at straws weak.
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Old 27th June 2020, 07:35 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
No.
People all over Pennsylvania will find themselves expressing resentment towards Philadelphia.
NY State residents resent NYC.
Illinois residents deride Chicago...etc.
And people in California not from Los Angeles undoubtedly express something along the lines of "who the hell do those freaks in LA think they are"

People in Cities identify far more with their cities than the States those cities are located in.
Suggesting that DC should not become part of Maryland or VA because the residents don't Identify strongly enough with those States (as you did earlier- provoking my response and this digression) is very weak- almost grasping at straws weak.
Dumb.

People from outside Philadelphia express resentment toward Philadelphia. It's Philadelphia.

The "freaks" used to be in Hollywood; now they're everywhere. Los Angeles is a 100 mile-wide city.

Whether you like it or not, DC has a long-established culture and identity; it's also unique among cities in the country in that they lack legislative representation (but have three votes in the Electoral College). That said, I am not at all opposed to transforming major cities into city-states. Let's do it. President Oprah can make the announcement.

San Diego: You're a state!
Dallas: You're a state!
Phoenix: You're a state!

We can add 25, 30 states. Rock n' roll.
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Old 27th June 2020, 07:58 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
.....
Doesn't even need to be Maryland, making it a part of Virginia is just as rational- although the residents of Virginia may not be as happy about that.
The capital was created out of land donated by Maryland and Virginia. Virginia took theirs back before the Civil War. It would be logical to return to Maryland what was once theirs. Moreover, the Potomac is a natural boundary between D.C. and Virginia. On the other hand, there is no boundary between D.C. and Maryland. Major streets and avenues continue through D.C. directly into Maryland. There are streets where residents on one side live in D.C. and on the other side in Maryland. Fire departments on both sides of the borders have cooperation agreements. Etc., etc.

Returning D.C. to Maryland follows logic and historical precedent. Giving it to Virginia makes no sense.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Most cities have an identity separate from their States. That is not a convincing argument.
There is little connection between Philly and Central PA, or Detroit and just about any other part of MI. (The two cities I have spent most of my life in, as examples)

And honestly, are there not plenty of good reasons for the Sparsely inhabited Western States to be merged?

Making a nonsensical move for the sake of partisanship is a bad idea no matter who does it.
Really? Right now the Senate stops EVERYTHING! It doesn't matter what is passed in the House. GOP Senators in North and South Dakota, Wyoming, Nebraska, Montana, Idaho and Alaska put a halt to it all. Now that is a hell of a lot of land they represent. It just isn't a lot of people.

A cow in any of these states wields more political power than a resident of California, New York and especially DC.

Frankly, we should just eliminate the US Senate entirely and make DC a Congressional district of Maryland.

But that won't happen.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
....
Whether you like it or not, DC has a long-established culture and identity; it's also unique among cities in the country in that they lack legislative representation (but have three votes in the Electoral College). That said, I am not at all opposed to transforming major cities into city-states. Let's do it. President Oprah can make the announcement.
.....
I dunno how much time you've spent in D.C., but it's a big stretch to claim it has just one established "culture and identity," any more than any other good-sized city. Many people see it as a part of a single region that includes the Maryland and Virginia suburbs. On its own, D.C. has a population comparable to some smaller states, but nothing like their geographic area, tax base or other resources.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I dunno how much time you've spent in D.C., but it's a big stretch to claim it has just one established "culture and identity," any more than any other good-sized city. Many people see it as a part of a single region that includes the Maryland and Virginia suburbs. On its own, D.C. has a population comparable to some smaller states, but nothing like their geographic area, tax base or other resources.
So? Is that a reason it shouldn't have Senators and a Congressman less than Wyoming?
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:26 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
So? Is that a reason it shouldn't have Senators and a Congressman less than Wyoming?
That was the argument for statehood that another poster advanced. The residents of every other city in the U.S. live in states, for which they elect senators and representatives. If we stop treating D.C. as unique, the way to do it is make it part of a state, and Maryland is the only logical choice.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:32 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
That was the argument for statehood that another poster advanced. The residents of every other city in the U.S. live in states, for which they elect senators and representatives. If we stop treating D.C. as unique, the way to do it is make it part of a state, and Maryland is the only logical choice.
The point is political power. I say, fine. Roll DC into Maryland. And while we're at it, merge Montana, Wyoming and Idaho into a single state.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:34 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I dunno how much time you've spent in D.C., but it's a big stretch to claim it has just one established "culture and identity," any more than any other good-sized city. Many people see it as a part of a single region that includes the Maryland and Virginia suburbs. On its own, D.C. has a population comparable to some smaller states, but nothing like their geographic area, tax base or other resources.
Rhode Island, Delaware, and Vermont have nothing like the geographic resources of Alaska, Wyoming or the Dakotas. Who cares? Pleading DC a city is like pleading Hawaii is an island, or Alaska is closer to Canada. None of that **** matters.

As for "returning" DC to Maryland, let's also return West Virginia to Virginia and Maine to Massachusetts. I'll concede this, however: I'm in favor of making DC part of Maryland if that's what District residents want.
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Old 28th June 2020, 04:45 AM   #28
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And we're right back to one or two stubborn Conservative screaming about it being "unfair" that people want to count people, not land, when dividing up political power.

If that's not a perfect metaphor, I don't know what is.
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Old 28th June 2020, 06:02 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
if that's what District residents want.
Ultimately that's what should matter. They want to be their own state.
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Old 28th June 2020, 06:30 AM   #30
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DC should never become a state. We don’t need to give the federal government even more incentive to increase its own size.
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Old 28th June 2020, 06:42 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
DC should never become a state. We donít need to give the federal government even more incentive to increase its own size.
So the citizens of DC just get no voice because you're scared of the government getting too big?
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Old 28th June 2020, 07:26 AM   #32
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Should? Yes.

Will? No.

Incidentally Puerto Rico should also be a state. Make it a nice even 52.
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Old 28th June 2020, 07:40 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Ultimately that's what should matter. They want to be their own state.
Is that really the most salient determining factor.
My SO and I wish to be our own State. We require a member in the House, and Two in the Senate.
It is what we want, so should be the determining factor,no?
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Old 28th June 2020, 07:43 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan View Post
Should? Yes.

Will? No.

Incidentally Puerto Rico should also be a state. Make it a nice even 52.
Puerto Rico should definitely be a State. Inasmuch as the residents at this point should be faced with foregoing their U.S. Citizenship if they don't become one within a few years.
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Old 28th June 2020, 08:06 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
DC should never become a state. We donít need to give the federal government even more incentive to increase its own size.
It would be the opposite: something currently run by federal government would instead become a state. The federal government's power would be reduced.
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Old 28th June 2020, 08:07 AM   #36
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I was wondering recently how DC ended up getting electoral votes--was there a time when we were justice-minded enough to pass an amendment that gave one party or the other even a small advantage in presidential elections? It turns out that when the twenty-third amendment was passed, DC was fairly evenly split (and the whole country was significantly swingier in the early 60s). The Great Migration changed that. There was a proposed amendment in the late 70s to give DC representation in Congress, but I'm guessing it was a little too obvious by then that representation would represent a low-political advantage.

The funny thing is that statehood only requires a straight majority approval in both chambers of Congress, rather than the extraordinary hurdles involved in passing an amendment. It could easily happen if the Democrats sweep this year.

Apart from the plain-as-day argument that the people living in DC deserve representation (taxation be damned), this situation exacerbates the already grave demographic malapportionment in the US. The least populous states tend to be relatively monolithic (compare Wyoming and California)--demographic minorities are concentrated in urban areas. DC is 49% black, and gets no representation whatsoever in Congress. Statehood would help address this situation (although the Senate would still be absurdly malapportioned, affirmative action for the white majority).
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Old 28th June 2020, 08:10 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
I was wondering recently how DC ended up getting electoral votes--was there a time when we were justice-minded enough to pass an amendment that gave one party or the other even a small advantage in presidential elections? It turns out that when the twenty-third amendment was passed, DC was fairly evenly split (and the whole country was significantly swingier in the early 60s). The Great Migration changed that. There was a proposed amendment in the late 70s to give DC representation in Congress, but I'm guessing it was a little too obvious by then that representation would represent a low-political advantage.

The funny thing is that statehood only requires a straight majority approval in both chambers of Congress, rather than the extraordinary hurdles involved in passing an amendment. It could easily happen if the Democrats sweep this year.

Apart from the plain-as-day argument that the people living in DC deserve representation (taxation be damned), this situation exacerbates the already grave demographic malapportionment in the US. The least populous states tend to be relatively monolithic (compare Wyoming and California)--demographic minorities are concentrated in urban areas. DC is 49% black, and gets no representation whatsoever in Congress. Statehood would help address this situation (although the Senate would still be absurdly malapportioned, affirmative action for the white majority).
Every state with a larger population than DC would be further disenfranchised by the addition of DC as a State. Further propagating an already unfair system.
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Old 28th June 2020, 08:16 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Every state with a larger population than DC would be further disenfranchised by the addition of DC as a State. Further propagating an already unfair system.
No. Disenfranchisement means something, and it doesn't mean "reducing the relative voting power of others". The Civil Rights Act did not disenfranchise white Americans.

In general a small urban state is going to be in coalition with large urban states, so this argument is doubly bad.
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Old 28th June 2020, 08:17 AM   #39
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Again since more people live in DC and waaaaay more people live in Puerto Rico then live in some of the smallest states, there's no way to leave them high and dry without it just being a pouty, spiteful "Because I don't to lose my unfair advantage."

Now after DC and Puerto Rico though the populations of our remaining territories* the population's drop off dramatically. Combined America Samoa, Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands only account for about 370,000 people. They might just be best lumped in either with Puerto Rico or a single bloc. But something, they deserve representation.

But the irony of American Citizens (Or American Nationals in one weird off case) who live in America, pay in America taxes, but can't vote for the President or for meaningful representation while people who used to live in America but now live abroad can is absurd.

*And yes I'm fully aware of the nightmare quagmire of incorporate/unincorporated, organized/disorganized. I'm just going to use generic "territory" for simplicity sake.
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Old 28th June 2020, 08:19 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Every state with a larger population than DC would be further disenfranchised by the addition of DC as a State. Further propagating an already unfair system.
"We can't give you any power because it will take away some of our unfair power" is not being disenfranchised. Words mean thing.

Again make one Dakota and give their political power to DC. Problem solved, all the numbers stay the same.
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