FBI Warns of Right-Wing Mass Destruction Terrorism - Page 2

Stacyhs · 4th October 2020, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by cullennz

Um no.

It tends to come from both sides in the US.

Odd old place the US

Um, not so much. The vast majority of this kind of thinking comes from the far right, not the left.

Craig4 · 4th October 2020, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes

Could happen. Seems most every cop in the nation is friendly to the Proud Boys and envy the freedom to pound liberals at will. In the case of the goons taking over, Russia, Turkey, Poland, Hungary, the Saudis and Bolsonaro's Brazil, plus a few more, will cheer. Not a strong enough alliance of strategic interests, as this excludes both the EU and China. More of a losers club.

Whatever happens, it will be a very close call between private interests and the public interest. Will the 0.1% go for Hitler 2.0?

I promise you that the police agencies in DC are not friendly with The Proud Boys or any other white nationalists.

Hlafordlaes · 4th October 2020, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

I promise you that the police agencies in DC are not friendly with The Proud Boys or any other white nationalists.

DC Police are special, unique in the region. MD and VA are another story.

Craig4 · 7th October 2020, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes

DC Police are special, unique in the region. MD and VA are another story.

Depends. In Prince Georges and Montgomery County the police are more like those in DC. Alexandria/Arlington police won't go be sympathetic to white nationalist. You're right though as you get farther south and west of DC. Being a white nationalist north of DC, getting into the Baltimore metro area would be assisted suicide. Baltimore cops don't discriminate; they'll kill anyone.

The Great Zaganza · 8th October 2020, 09:30 AM

And it has started:

https://eu.freep.com/story/news/loca...ia/5921409002/

Milita group planned to kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer, according to the FBI.
Six people arrested.

Hlafordlaes · 8th October 2020, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

Depends. In Prince Georges and Montgomery County the police are more like those in DC. Alexandria/Arlington police won't go be sympathetic to white nationalist. You're right though as you get farther south and west of DC. Being a white nationalist north of DC, getting into the Baltimore metro area would be assisted suicide. Baltimore cops don't discriminate; they'll kill anyone.

I think I ran into some difficulties into every county in MD, mostly traffic-related, and VA was a no-go zone. WVA, back in the day, was actually nicer. If you can believe it, back when it was National Airport and you could drive right up to a traffic circle at the main terminal, I use to practice spin and skid control when it rained or snowed. Place was entirely closed, or almost so, at night, so nobody around. Think I saw local security doing the same thing more than once. But the DC-MD line... ah, one of legend, with the Park Police thrown in for good measure. In DC the only real thing was not getting hit with a mega parking ticket, OMG.

Heck of a lot less traffic then. Maybe less than half, especially at night.

ETA: Favorite all-time encounter with Park Police was going up Capital Hill driving a Tourmobile. Damn things had busted engines and could barely crawl up, so you had to be bold when the traffic light in the middle turned yellow, and pray. Not that there was any meaningful traffic coming up that side street. Rookie new on the job pulled me over for no license plates (we had none), running the light, and so on. Real hot day, real hot. Swamp-humid, as the Mall can get. Eighty passengers suddenly with no breeze through the side windows, no AC, and pissed off at the cop. Black guy. I sympathized because I knew the powers that be would wave a wand when he called it in, so I wasn't all that upset. Got a lesson in how midwesterners can whisper racist curses as they disembarked... at the Capital Building. Hoooweee! ... Man was my narrator that day hot, too, as I recall, and my age. Good times.

Then there were the female tourists and free-lance narrators looking for one-night cowboys... Cushy job, pre-AIDS. Paradise, I believe they call it. Paid for my Masters at Georgetown.

Captain_Swoop · 8th October 2020, 10:06 AM

(Detroit News) - The FBI thwarted what they described as a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and federal prosecutors are expected to discuss the alleged conspiracy later Thursday.

Quote:

The court filing also alleges the conspirators twice conducted surveillance at Whitmer's personal vacation home and discussed kidnapping her to a "secure location" in Wisconsin to stand "trial" for treason prior to the Nov. 3 election.

"Several members talked about murdering 'tyrants' or 'taking' a sitting governor," an FBI agent wrote in the affidavit. "The group decided they needed to increase their numbers and encouraged each other to talk to their neighbors and spread their message."

https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/new...er/5922301002/

Trump tweeted om 17th April
LIBERATE MICHIGAN!

The_Animus · 8th October 2020, 10:47 AM

Quite a distinction between the left and right. The left riots for the equal treatment of black people and their right not to be murdered by police.

The right wants to kidnap and overthrow democratically elected government because they have to wear masks during a pandemic.

SuburbanTurkey · 8th October 2020, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by The_Animus

Quite a distinction between the left and right. The left riots for the equal treatment of black people and their right not to be murdered by police.

The right wants to kidnap and overthrow democratically elected government because they have to wear masks during a pandemic.

It's no contest. Left wing groups that take illegal direct action usually do not have the goal of murdering people. ALF might sabotage a farm or break into a lab, but they aren't going to walk into a church and gun down people based on their race.

Right wingers are the #1 domestic terror threat in this country and have been for decades.

Quote:

To evaluate the ongoing threat from different types of terrorists, however, it is useful to consider the proportion of fatalities attributed to each type of perpetrator annually. In 14 of the 21 years between 1994 and 2019 in which fatal terrorist attacks occurred, the majority of deaths resulted from right-wing attacks. In eight of these years, right-wing attackers caused all of the fatalities, and in three more—including 2018 and 2019—they were responsible for more than 90 percent of annual fatalities.11 Therefore, while religious terrorists caused the largest number of total fatalities, right-wing attackers were most likely to cause more deaths in a given year.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escala...-united-states

rockysmith76 · 8th October 2020, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

It's no contest. Left wing groups that take illegal direct action usually do not have the goal of murdering people. ALF might sabotage a farm or break into a lab, but they aren't going to walk into a church and gun down people based on their race.

Right wingers are the #1 domestic terror threat in this country and have been for decades.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escala...-united-states

The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA.

SuburbanTurkey · 8th October 2020, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA.

Individual right wing gunmen have killed more people than years of total combined attacks by the left. It's quite clear where the most dangerous terrorists come from, and it's from radicalized right.

Stacyhs · 8th October 2020, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA.

Not supported by facts or evidence. This, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, suggests the lack of deaths is entirely due to intent:

Quote:

In fact, with dozens of terrorist attacks causing an estimated $30 million in damages since 1997 — the ELF disavows harm to "any animal, human or non-human," and so far, apparently, has not caused any

rockysmith76 · 8th October 2020, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

Not supported by facts or evidence. This, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, suggests the lack of deaths is entirely due to intent:

Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck.

JoeMorgue · 8th October 2020, 11:49 AM

Yeah if you think 2+2=a potato a textbook that says "2+2=4" is a biased source to you.

"Bias" is the most basic bedrock need for living in a post-fact world. Nobody is allowed to tell you that you are wrong because them disagreeing with you makes them "biased."

Stacyhs · 8th October 2020, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck.

If 'dozens of terrorist acts' all end in no deaths out of sheer luck, then I want to go to Vegas and gamble with these guys cuz, lord a mighty, they got the luck o' the Irish.

Captain_Swoop · 8th October 2020, 12:25 PM

Whitmer: "Our head of state has spent the past 7 months denying science, ignoring his own health experts, stoking distrust, fomenting anger, & giving comfort to those who spread fear ... just last week, POTUS stood before the people and refused to condemn white supremacists."

Firestone · 8th October 2020, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

Whitmer: "Our head of state has spent the past 7 months denying science, ignoring his own health experts, stoking distrust, fomenting anger, & giving comfort to those who spread fear ... just last week, POTUS stood before the people and refused to condemn white supremacists."

Jason Miller (Trump campaign) reacts: "If we want to talk about hatred, then Gov. Whitmer, go look in the mirror! The fact that she wakes up every day with such hatred in her heart towards President Trump"

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...684572674?s=19

Stacyhs · 8th October 2020, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Jason Miller (Trump campaign) reacts: "If we want to talk about hatred, then Gov. Whitmer, go look in the mirror! The fact that she wakes up every day with such hatred in her heart towards President Trump"

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...684572674?s=19

What an idiot. He should remember that old adage "It's better to be suspected a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Hlafordlaes · 8th October 2020, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck.

Hardly the same. But let's grant you your point. Now condemn this plan to engage in violent acts of terror and armed sedition against Whitmer in equal terms, adding the severity the "step up" in targets deserves.

Lurch · 8th October 2020, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck.

If it was purely down to luck only, then statistics would suggest some accidental killings or maiming.

In the end, though, results count for something. Leftists haven't killed, whereas rightists have.

Which form or terrorism would you prefer? Lefties blessed with the good luck to avoid casualties, or righties that are competent at killing?

dudalb · 8th October 2020, 01:31 PM

SO terrorism is OK if the left does it?
That seems to be the belief of a lot of people here.

JoeMorgue · 8th October 2020, 01:32 PM

Even at face value (which we're nowhere near with arguments from Right) "I'm going to be violent to make the world a better place" and "I'm going to be violent to keep the world a worse place" are not morally equal.

And which is Right? Is the Left a bunch of snowflakes who need safe spaces or violent unhinged revolutionaries?

Stacyhs · 8th October 2020, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

SO terrorism is OK if the left does it?
That seems to be the belief of a lot of people here.

I fail to see how you came to that conclusion based on what's been said here. No one said it's OK. It's certainly not mine.

ETA: Please identify those you think hold that belief.

dudalb · 8th October 2020, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I fail to see how you came to that conclusion based on what's been said here. No one said it's OK. It's certainly not mine.

ETA: Please identify those you think hold that belief.

Th eones basically makiing excuses for the ELF. if they hasve not killed somebody iy id putr luvk. That might not be t heir aim, but the methods they use certainly have the high potential of killing people.

jerrywayne · 8th October 2020, 01:45 PM

Governor Whitmer's statement:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mi...?ocid=msedgntp

13 members of two militias charged.

jerrywayne · 8th October 2020, 01:57 PM

More from the governor: Trump complicit.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/go...?ocid=msedgdhp

jerrywayne · 8th October 2020, 02:06 PM

Nancy Pelosi is saying she will talk about the 25th Amendment tomorrow. She's giving fuel to the militia movement, imho.

Captain_Swoop · 8th October 2020, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Firestone

Jason Miller (Trump campaign) reacts: "If we want to talk about hatred, then Gov. Whitmer, go look in the mirror! The fact that she wakes up every day with such hatred in her heart towards President Trump"

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...684572674?s=19

I wonder what inspires people to try and kill her?

johnny karate · 8th October 2020, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA.

Yes, ELF would be more dangerous if they were more dangerous.

It’s like you listened to Pence’s swine flu argument last night and didn’t realize it was moronic.

thaiboxerken · 8th October 2020, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by jerrywayne

Nancy Pelosi is saying she will talk about the 25th Amendment tomorrow. She's giving fuel to the militia movement, imho.

Voting Trump out will fuel the militia movement....

This doesn't mean we shouldn't vote the MF out.

johnny karate · 8th October 2020, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by jerrywayne

Nancy Pelosi is saying she will talk about the 25th Amendment tomorrow. She's giving fuel to the militia movement, imho.

And they’ve been so well-behaved up until now.

Stacyhs · 8th October 2020, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Th eones basically makiing excuses for the ELF. if they hasve not killed somebody iy id putr luvk. That might not be t heir aim, but the methods they use certainly have the high potential of killing people.

I think I see your problem. By stating the fact that no one has been killed in the dozens of act of terrorism enacted by ELF which suggest intent rather than luck, you infer that means we think the acts themselves are OK. Um...no.

Of course their methods have the potential to kill people. But so far they haven't. That is not something you can say about the right wing acts of terrorism.

Stacyhs · 8th October 2020, 02:21 PM

I think we're at the stage where Trump needs to be assessed by a mental health team whether he agrees to it or not.

Distracted1 · 8th October 2020, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Even at face value (which we're nowhere near with arguments from Right) "I'm going to be violent to make the world a better place" and "I'm going to be violent to keep the world a worse place" are not morally equal.

And which is Right? Is the Left a bunch of snowflakes who need safe spaces or violent unhinged revolutionaries?

You highlight a reason why many find much to criticize on either end of this spectrum. "being violent" unnecessarily makes the world a worse place all by itself.

JoeMorgue · 8th October 2020, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

You highlight a reason why many find much to criticize on either end of this spectrum. "being violent" unnecessarily makes the world a worse place all by itself.

Oh pishtosh, balderdash, hogwash, and other assorted old timey swear words.

People punching you in the face always want to lecture you about "your" violence whenever you punch them back.

We didn't stop the Nazis by "using our words." Black people didn't stop being property because of a "civil debate among equals."

Distracted1 · 8th October 2020, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Oh pishtosh, balderdash, hogwash, and other assorted old timey swear words.

People punching you in the face always want to lecture you about "your" violence whenever you punch them back.

We didn't stop the Nazis by "using our words." Black people didn't stop being property because of a "civil debate among equals."

Can't get that government boot off our necks without blowing up a few federal buildings then, I guess.

JoeMorgue · 8th October 2020, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Can't get that government boot off our necks without blowing up a few federal buildings then, I guess.

Well tell you what when that happens we'll have a nice, deep conversation about with all the hair splitting and pettifogging and forced obtuseness and false equivalency your little heart desires.

But as it stands now it's the government's boot that has people planning to kidnap and assassination governors in order to protect it so.... *makes scurry off gesture*

Dread Pirate Roberts · 8th October 2020, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I think we're at the stage where Trump needs to be assessed by a mental health team whether he agrees to it or not.

From your lips to Pelosi's ears

Quote:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Rep. Jamie B. Raskin (D-Md.) plan to introduce legislation Friday that would create a commission to “help ensure effective and uninterrupted leadership” in the presidency.

The panel would be called the Commission on Presidential Capacity to Discharge the Powers and Duties of Office, “the body and process called for in the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution,” the offices of Pelosi and Raskin said in a statement announcing the move.

The 25th Amendment formalizes that the vice president takes over the duties of the presidency in the event of a president’s death, inability to perform his duties or resignation from office. It also lays out a process by which a sitting president may be removed from office. Congress’s role in this, however, is limited.

Mader Levap · 8th October 2020, 03:16 PM

This kind of thing will trigger Trump even more, making him say even more unhinged things.

In other words, it's Friday in murica.

Distracted1 · 8th October 2020, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Well tell you what when that happens we'll have a nice, deep conversation about with all the hair splitting and pettifogging and forced obtuseness and false equivalency your little heart desires.

But as it stands now it's the government's boot that has people planning to kidnap and assassination governors in order to protect it so.... *makes scurry off gesture*

Funny, I consider "Governors" to be part of the government. Something to do with spelling, I suppose.

4th October 2020, 01:31 PM	#43
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 14,683	Originally Posted by Craig4 I promise you that the police agencies in DC are not friendly with The Proud Boys or any other white nationalists. DC Police are special, unique in the region. MD and VA are another story.
	__________________ Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

8th October 2020, 09:30 AM	#45
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,682	And it has started: https://eu.freep.com/story/news/loca...ia/5921409002/ Milita group planned to kidnap Governor Gretchen Whitmer, according to the FBI. Six people arrested.
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

8th October 2020, 09:55 AM	#46
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 14,683	Originally Posted by Craig4 Depends. In Prince Georges and Montgomery County the police are more like those in DC. Alexandria/Arlington police won't go be sympathetic to white nationalist. You're right though as you get farther south and west of DC. Being a white nationalist north of DC, getting into the Baltimore metro area would be assisted suicide. Baltimore cops don't discriminate; they'll kill anyone. I think I ran into some difficulties into every county in MD, mostly traffic-related, and VA was a no-go zone. WVA, back in the day, was actually nicer. If you can believe it, back when it was National Airport and you could drive right up to a traffic circle at the main terminal, I use to practice spin and skid control when it rained or snowed. Place was entirely closed, or almost so, at night, so nobody around. Think I saw local security doing the same thing more than once. But the DC-MD line... ah, one of legend, with the Park Police thrown in for good measure. In DC the only real thing was not getting hit with a mega parking ticket, OMG. Heck of a lot less traffic then. Maybe less than half, especially at night. ETA: Favorite all-time encounter with Park Police was going up Capital Hill driving a Tourmobile. Damn things had busted engines and could barely crawl up, so you had to be bold when the traffic light in the middle turned yellow, and pray. Not that there was any meaningful traffic coming up that side street. Rookie new on the job pulled me over for no license plates (we had none), running the light, and so on. Real hot day, real hot. Swamp-humid, as the Mall can get. Eighty passengers suddenly with no breeze through the side windows, no AC, and pissed off at the cop. Black guy. I sympathized because I knew the powers that be would wave a wand when he called it in, so I wasn't all that upset. Got a lesson in how midwesterners can whisper racist curses as they disembarked... at the Capital Building. Hoooweee! ... Man was my narrator that day hot, too, as I recall, and my age. Good times. Then there were the female tourists and free-lance narrators looking for one-night cowboys... Cushy job, pre-AIDS. Paradise, I believe they call it. Paid for my Masters at Georgetown.
	__________________ Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp Last edited by Hlafordlaes; 8th October 2020 at 10:10 AM.

8th October 2020, 10:47 AM	#48
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,257	Quite a distinction between the left and right. The left riots for the equal treatment of black people and their right not to be murdered by police. The right wants to kidnap and overthrow democratically elected government because they have to wear masks during a pandemic.
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,257	__________________ Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them.

8th October 2020, 11:24 AM	#49
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,015	Originally Posted by The_Animus Quite a distinction between the left and right. The left riots for the equal treatment of black people and their right not to be murdered by police. The right wants to kidnap and overthrow democratically elected government because they have to wear masks during a pandemic. It's no contest. Left wing groups that take illegal direct action usually do not have the goal of murdering people. ALF might sabotage a farm or break into a lab, but they aren't going to walk into a church and gun down people based on their race. Right wingers are the #1 domestic terror threat in this country and have been for decades. Quote: To evaluate the ongoing threat from different types of terrorists, however, it is useful to consider the proportion of fatalities attributed to each type of perpetrator annually. In 14 of the 21 years between 1994 and 2019 in which fatal terrorist attacks occurred, the majority of deaths resulted from right-wing attacks. In eight of these years, right-wing attackers caused all of the fatalities, and in three more—including 2018 and 2019—they were responsible for more than 90 percent of annual fatalities.11 Therefore, while religious terrorists caused the largest number of total fatalities, right-wing attackers were most likely to cause more deaths in a given year. https://www.csis.org/analysis/escala...-united-states
	__________________ Gobble gobble

4th October 2020, 11:58 AM	#41
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,023	Originally Posted by cullennz Um no. It tends to come from both sides in the US. Odd old place the US Um, not so much. The vast majority of this kind of thinking comes from the far right, not the left.

4th October 2020, 12:50 PM	#42
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,592	Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes Could happen. Seems most every cop in the nation is friendly to the Proud Boys and envy the freedom to pound liberals at will. In the case of the goons taking over, Russia, Turkey, Poland, Hungary, the Saudis and Bolsonaro's Brazil, plus a few more, will cheer. Not a strong enough alliance of strategic interests, as this excludes both the EU and China. More of a losers club. Whatever happens, it will be a very close call between private interests and the public interest. Will the 0.1% go for Hitler 2.0? I promise you that the police agencies in DC are not friendly with The Proud Boys or any other white nationalists.

7th October 2020, 10:47 PM	#44
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: I live in a swamp Posts: 22,592	Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes DC Police are special, unique in the region. MD and VA are another story. Depends. In Prince Georges and Montgomery County the police are more like those in DC. Alexandria/Arlington police won't go be sympathetic to white nationalist. You're right though as you get farther south and west of DC. Being a white nationalist north of DC, getting into the Baltimore metro area would be assisted suicide. Baltimore cops don't discriminate; they'll kill anyone.

8th October 2020, 10:06 AM	#47
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,944	(Detroit News) - The FBI thwarted what they described as a plot to violently overthrow the government and kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and federal prosecutors are expected to discuss the alleged conspiracy later Thursday. Quote: The court filing also alleges the conspirators twice conducted surveillance at Whitmer's personal vacation home and discussed kidnapping her to a "secure location" in Wisconsin to stand "trial" for treason prior to the Nov. 3 election. "Several members talked about murdering 'tyrants' or 'taking' a sitting governor," an FBI agent wrote in the affidavit. "The group decided they needed to increase their numbers and encouraged each other to talk to their neighbors and spread their message." https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/new...er/5922301002/ Trump tweeted om 17th April LIBERATE MICHIGAN!

8th October 2020, 11:28 AM	#50
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey It's no contest. Left wing groups that take illegal direct action usually do not have the goal of murdering people. ALF might sabotage a farm or break into a lab, but they aren't going to walk into a church and gun down people based on their race. Right wingers are the #1 domestic terror threat in this country and have been for decades. https://www.csis.org/analysis/escala...-united-states The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

8th October 2020, 11:30 AM	#51
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,015	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA. Individual right wing gunmen have killed more people than years of total combined attacks by the left. It's quite clear where the most dangerous terrorists come from, and it's from radicalized right.
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 8th October 2020 at 11:36 AM.

8th October 2020, 11:42 AM	#52
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,023	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA. Not supported by facts or evidence. This, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, suggests the lack of deaths is entirely due to intent: Quote: In fact, with dozens of terrorist attacks causing an estimated $30 million in damages since 1997 — the ELF disavows harm to "any animal, human or non-human," and so far, apparently, has not caused any

8th October 2020, 11:47 AM	#53
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990	Originally Posted by Stacyhs Not supported by facts or evidence. This, from the Southern Poverty Law Center, suggests the lack of deaths is entirely due to intent: Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck.
rockysmith76 Banned Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 1,990

8th October 2020, 11:49 AM	#54
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,693	Yeah if you think 2+2=a potato a textbook that says "2+2=4" is a biased source to you. "Bias" is the most basic bedrock need for living in a post-fact world. Nobody is allowed to tell you that you are wrong because them disagreeing with you makes them "biased."
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." Last edited by JoeMorgue; 8th October 2020 at 12:17 PM.

8th October 2020, 12:15 PM	#55
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,023	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck. If 'dozens of terrorist acts' all end in no deaths out of sheer luck, then I want to go to Vegas and gamble with these guys cuz, lord a mighty, they got the luck o' the Irish.

8th October 2020, 12:25 PM	#56
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,944	Whitmer: "Our head of state has spent the past 7 months denying science, ignoring his own health experts, stoking distrust, fomenting anger, & giving comfort to those who spread fear ... just last week, POTUS stood before the people and refused to condemn white supremacists."

8th October 2020, 12:29 PM	#57
Firestone Proud Award Award recipient Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,997	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop Whitmer: "Our head of state has spent the past 7 months denying science, ignoring his own health experts, stoking distrust, fomenting anger, & giving comfort to those who spread fear ... just last week, POTUS stood before the people and refused to condemn white supremacists." Jason Miller (Trump campaign) reacts: "If we want to talk about hatred, then Gov. Whitmer, go look in the mirror! The fact that she wakes up every day with such hatred in her heart towards President Trump" https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...684572674?s=19
	__________________ The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan

8th October 2020, 12:47 PM	#58
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,023	Originally Posted by Firestone Jason Miller (Trump campaign) reacts: "If we want to talk about hatred, then Gov. Whitmer, go look in the mirror! The fact that she wakes up every day with such hatred in her heart towards President Trump" https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...684572674?s=19 What an idiot. He should remember that old adage "It's better to be suspected a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

8th October 2020, 12:50 PM	#59
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 14,683	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck. Hardly the same. But let's grant you your point. Now condemn this plan to engage in violent acts of terror and armed sedition against Whitmer in equal terms, adding the severity the "step up" in targets deserves.
	__________________ Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

8th October 2020, 01:24 PM	#60
Lurch Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Ottawa Posts: 1,649	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 Biased source either way, They were leftist and they engaged in violent acts of terror regardless, it was due to luck. If it was purely down to luck only, then statistics would suggest some accidental killings or maiming. In the end, though, results count for something. Leftists haven't killed, whereas rightists have. Which form or terrorism would you prefer? Lefties blessed with the good luck to avoid casualties, or righties that are competent at killing?

8th October 2020, 01:31 PM	#61
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	SO terrorism is OK if the left does it? That seems to be the belief of a lot of people here.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th October 2020, 01:32 PM	#62
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,693	Even at face value (which we're nowhere near with arguments from Right) "I'm going to be violent to make the world a better place" and "I'm going to be violent to keep the world a worse place" are not morally equal. And which is Right? Is the Left a bunch of snowflakes who need safe spaces or violent unhinged revolutionaries?
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate." Last edited by JoeMorgue; 8th October 2020 at 01:37 PM.

8th October 2020, 01:35 PM	#63
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,023	Originally Posted by dudalb SO terrorism is OK if the left does it? That seems to be the belief of a lot of people here. I fail to see how you came to that conclusion based on what's been said here. No one said it's OK. It's certainly not mine. ETA: Please identify those you think hold that belief.

8th October 2020, 01:41 PM	#64
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	Originally Posted by Stacyhs I fail to see how you came to that conclusion based on what's been said here. No one said it's OK. It's certainly not mine. ETA: Please identify those you think hold that belief. Th eones basically makiing excuses for the ELF. if they hasve not killed somebody iy id putr luvk. That might not be t heir aim, but the methods they use certainly have the high potential of killing people.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

8th October 2020, 01:45 PM	#65
jerrywayne Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,083	Governor Whitmer's statement: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mi...?ocid=msedgntp 13 members of two militias charged.
	Last edited by jerrywayne; 8th October 2020 at 01:49 PM.

8th October 2020, 01:57 PM	#66
jerrywayne Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,083	More from the governor: Trump complicit. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/go...?ocid=msedgdhp

8th October 2020, 02:06 PM	#67
jerrywayne Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,083	Nancy Pelosi is saying she will talk about the 25th Amendment tomorrow. She's giving fuel to the militia movement, imho.

8th October 2020, 02:07 PM	#68
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,944	Originally Posted by Firestone Jason Miller (Trump campaign) reacts: "If we want to talk about hatred, then Gov. Whitmer, go look in the mirror! The fact that she wakes up every day with such hatred in her heart towards President Trump" https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/s...684572674?s=19 I wonder what inspires people to try and kill her?

8th October 2020, 02:11 PM	#69
johnny karate ... and your little dog too. Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,574	Originally Posted by rockysmith76 The ELF was left wing and little better than organized arsonists. the fact they never killed anyone was more luck than intent. They were domestic terrorists by definition, and were funded in part by the ALF and PETA. Yes, ELF would be more dangerous if they were more dangerous. It’s like you listened to Pence’s swine flu argument last night and didn’t realize it was moronic.

8th October 2020, 02:12 PM	#70
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 31,711	Originally Posted by jerrywayne Nancy Pelosi is saying she will talk about the 25th Amendment tomorrow. She's giving fuel to the militia movement, imho. Voting Trump out will fuel the militia movement.... This doesn't mean we shouldn't vote the MF out.
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

8th October 2020, 02:18 PM	#72
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,023	Originally Posted by dudalb Th eones basically makiing excuses for the ELF. if they hasve not killed somebody iy id putr luvk. That might not be t heir aim, but the methods they use certainly have the high potential of killing people. I think I see your problem. By stating the fact that no one has been killed in the dozens of act of terrorism enacted by ELF which suggest intent rather than luck, you infer that means we think the acts themselves are OK. Um...no. Of course their methods have the potential to kill people. But so far they haven't. That is not something you can say about the right wing acts of terrorism.

8th October 2020, 02:21 PM	#73
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 18,023	I think we're at the stage where Trump needs to be assessed by a mental health team whether he agrees to it or not.

8th October 2020, 02:24 PM	#74
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,534	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Even at face value (which we're nowhere near with arguments from Right) "I'm going to be violent to make the world a better place" and "I'm going to be violent to keep the world a worse place" are not morally equal. And which is Right? Is the Left a bunch of snowflakes who need safe spaces or violent unhinged revolutionaries? You highlight a reason why many find much to criticize on either end of this spectrum. "being violent" unnecessarily makes the world a worse place all by itself.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure. Last edited by Distracted1; 8th October 2020 at 02:25 PM.

8th October 2020, 02:41 PM	#75
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,693	Originally Posted by Distracted1 You highlight a reason why many find much to criticize on either end of this spectrum. "being violent" unnecessarily makes the world a worse place all by itself. Oh pishtosh, balderdash, hogwash, and other assorted old timey swear words. People punching you in the face always want to lecture you about "your" violence whenever you punch them back. We didn't stop the Nazis by "using our words." Black people didn't stop being property because of a "civil debate among equals."
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

8th October 2020, 02:45 PM	#76
Distracted1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 5,534	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Oh pishtosh, balderdash, hogwash, and other assorted old timey swear words. People punching you in the face always want to lecture you about "your" violence whenever you punch them back. We didn't stop the Nazis by "using our words." Black people didn't stop being property because of a "civil debate among equals." Can't get that government boot off our necks without blowing up a few federal buildings then, I guess.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.