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Old 26th December 2019, 06:28 PM   #81
plague311
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Doesn't seem like he treated the fox any more cruelly than the fox was gonna treat those chickens.

You think if the fox had found a chicken stuck in a fence, he would have tried to disentangle it? Called for a professional?

No. The fox would probably have started eating that chicken before it was even dead.
Sir, have you been drinking?
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Old 26th December 2019, 06:38 PM   #82
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It's those stupid human rights nerds that really churn my butter. Hey stupid human rights nerds... brutal slaughter is just part of the magnificent circle of life.. and sometimes a bit of fun too. Especially when the victim is bound and defenseless.

Get a life, stupid human rights nerds.
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Old 26th December 2019, 06:39 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Sir, have you been drinking?
Sir, are you able to address the argument, instead of attacking the arguer?

I mean, what's your endgame, here? Are you telling me I should just question your mental capacity, whenever you make an argument I don't like but can't figure out how to refute?

Because that's pretty tempting. But I don't think the MA allows it. Do you want to try again, or should I just report your post now?
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Old 26th December 2019, 06:45 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
It's those stupid human rights nerds that really churn my butter. Hey stupid human rights nerds... brutal slaughter is just part of the magnificent circle of life.. and sometimes a bit of fun too. Especially when the victim is bound and defenseless.

Get a life, stupid human rights nerds.
And todays winner of the most off topic award of the day goes toooooo.......
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 26th December 2019, 07:01 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Those of us assuming the most brutal scenario are probably the same people who read Maugham's sickeningly smug tweets this morning. I think he expected congratulations for being such a manly man.
And rightfully so. A fine display of twitter machismo, which apparently triggers dateless animal huggers.
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Old 26th December 2019, 07:04 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
It's those stupid human rights nerds that really churn my butter. Hey stupid human rights nerds... brutal slaughter is just part of the magnificent circle of life.. and sometimes a bit of fun too. Especially when the victim is bound and defenseless.

Get a life, stupid human rights nerds.
Brutal slaughter is, in fact, part the circle of life. What's your problem?
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Old 26th December 2019, 07:11 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Brutal slaughter is, in fact, part the circle of life. What's your problem?


Well speaking only for myself: ethics, humanity* and the law are the problem here.

As I wrote before, your apparent position would also lend itself to - just for example - not bothering to treat livestock going to slaughter with any humanity or care either. We might just as well pile their live bodies on top of each other in the truck on the way to the abattoir, and kill them in any old way (it wouldn't matter at all which way). After all, they're all on their way to be killed for our meat, skins, and other products anyhow. Why on Earth should we give even a moment's thought about how we transport and kill those animals.

But that's not what's happens (in European and North American countries at least), and it's not what's allowed by law. Do you have any idea as to why that might be....?


* You know of humanity? It's a broad concept, but at its core is the idea that humans have evolved to the point where we don't behave like wild animals, and that we set reasonable standards with which wild animals should be treated by humans......
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Old 26th December 2019, 07:15 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Well speaking only for myself: ethics, humanity* and the law are the problem here.

As I wrote before, your apparent position would also lend itself to - just for example - not bothering to treat livestock going to slaughter with any humanity or care either. We might just as well pile their live bodies on top of each other in the truck on the way to the abattoir, and kill them in any old way (it wouldn't matter at all which way). After all, they're all on their way to be killed for our meat, skins, and other products anyhow. Why on Earth should we give even a moment's thought about how we transport and kill those animals.

But that's not what's happens (in European and North American countries at least), and it's not what's allowed by law. Do you have any idea as to why that might be....?


* You know of humanity? It's a broad concept, but at its core is the idea that humans have evolved to the point where we don't behave like wild animals, and that we set reasonable standards with which wild animals should be treated by humans......
You would have a point if there was any evidence of posters condoning the rich ****s tweet.
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 26th December 2019, 07:18 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
And todays winner of the most off topic award of the day goes toooooo.......


How so? I interpreted that as an entirely on-topic satire on the position of those who claim things like "it was just a wild animal, so why should anyone care how or why it died?"

What trustbutverify wrote was a form of antiphrasis, using sarcasm for effect. It's a rhetorical device.
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Old 26th December 2019, 07:28 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
How so? I interpreted that as an entirely on-topic satire on the position of those who claim things like "it was just a wild animal, so why should anyone care how or why it died?"

What trustbutverify wrote was a form of antiphrasis, using sarcasm for effect. It's a rhetorical device.
Only if you are overly dramatically Anthropomorphising
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 26th December 2019, 07:34 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Trebuchet. Just sayin'.
https://youtu.be/4PcL6-mjRNk

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Old 26th December 2019, 07:36 PM   #92
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I see no issue. Baseball bat to the head is perfect death. Certainly not cruel. Could be cruel if done sloppily, but even then if the intent was quick death, I don't see how it could have been illegal.
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Old 26th December 2019, 07:42 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
It's those stupid human rights nerds that really churn my butter. Hey stupid human rights nerds... brutal slaughter is just part of the magnificent circle of life.. and sometimes a bit of fun too. Especially when the victim is bound and defenseless.

Get a life, stupid human rights nerds.
Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Well speaking only for myself: ethics, humanity* and the law are the problem here.

As I wrote before, your apparent position would also lend itself to - just for example - not bothering to treat livestock going to slaughter with any humanity or care either. We might just as well pile their live bodies on top of each other in the truck on the way to the abattoir, and kill them in any old way (it wouldn't matter at all which way). After all, they're all on their way to be killed for our meat, skins, and other products anyhow. Why on Earth should we give even a moment's thought about how we transport and kill those animals.

But that's not what's happens (in European and North American countries at least), and it's not what's allowed by law. Do you have any idea as to why that might be....?


* You know of humanity? It's a broad concept, but at its core is the idea that humans have evolved to the point where we don't behave like wild animals, and that we set reasonable standards with which wild animals should be treated by humans......
I think "evolved to the point where" begs more questions than you can actually answer.
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Old 26th December 2019, 07:54 PM   #94
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I would argue that the guy essentially had an ensnared fox whether he had intentionally set a trap or snare for it or not, and so what he did was probably appropriate and in accordance with UK guidelines to dispatch it humanely and as quickly as possible. ...if he gave it a nice hard blow to the head first, of course.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/foxes-mo...m-damage#foxes

https://www.gwct.org.uk/advisory/gui...ling-captures/
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Old 26th December 2019, 08:25 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Shepherd View Post
I would argue that the guy essentially had an ensnared fox whether he had intentionally set a trap or snare for it or not, and so what he did was probably appropriate and in accordance with UK guidelines to dispatch it humanely and as quickly as possible. ...if he gave it a nice hard blow to the head first, of course.
My only regret is the lack of video proving how humane the head bashing was.
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Old 26th December 2019, 08:33 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think "evolved to the point where" begs more questions than you can actually answer.


I see. (Or rather, I don't see).

How about the rest of my post? Did it raise more questions than I could possibly answer?

And how about a quick series of (related) questions for you to answer*: how do you think livestock should be treated on the way to slaughter and in the slaughtering process itself? Do you think these animals can be transported and killed in any way at all, on account of the fact that they're going to end up dead for our benefit in any case? Or do you think there should be laws and regulations governing what is and what is not acceptable practice? If so, why? And if not, why not?



* It should go without saying (but perhaps needs to be articulated to avoid any men of straw being built...) that this is nothing more than an invitation for you to address/answer the questions. It is of course entirely up to you whether or not you feel like answering then in any way. I am not ordering or compelling you to answer. Glad that's sorted out in advance....
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Old 26th December 2019, 08:39 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
My only regret is the lack of video proving how humane the head bashing was.

To a certain extent, it's irrelevant. It would be wrong - and illegal in England&Wales - to kill a fox in this manner. Whether it took only clean blow to the skull, or whether it turned out to be a messy affair requiring several blows while the fox yelped in pain.

And to reiterate: if what Maugham says about the circumstances is correct - i.e. that the fox had become entangled in netting - then I'd say there's a high likelihood that the fox had not suffered any significant physical injury at the point when Maugham first came across it. Rather, it sounds highly likely that the fox was merely distressed at having entangled itself in the netting. And if that's the case, Maugham cannot even claim this was some sort of "mercy killing" of a fox that was seriously (and maybe fatally) wounded already.
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Old 26th December 2019, 09:54 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That escalated quickly. Do you think we could have a dispassionate discussion about the challenges of animal husbandry? O
Get back to us when someone attempts to do to you what this sick Sierra Omega Bravo did to the fox and tell us how dispassionately you regard the experience.
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Old 26th December 2019, 09:56 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's a silly law and he should have kept his mouth shut.
You just admitted to finding the humane treatment of animals "silly".

Have you no shame, sir? At long last, have you no shame?
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Old 26th December 2019, 10:05 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Sir, have you been drinking?
No...which is the disturbing thing...
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Old 26th December 2019, 10:06 PM   #101
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Interesting weird parallel story from here if anyone finds it interesting
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 11.


They have finally managed to free an Orca that has been on the news stuck in netting here,

Massive team effort and good on all the people involved from me.

It hasn't hit the net (pardon the pun), that it is actually freed yet, but it has and all seems good, bit of an earlier story link

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...ork-to-free-it

Quote:
Injured orca captured near Waiheke as rescuers work to free it

The animal got caught in the line - which still had a buoy attached - in Northland on Christmas Eve.

The line continued to cut deeper into the young adult male, and could eventually sever its fin and kill it.

Several attempts to free the orca this week have been unsuccessful.

Ingrid Visser from Orca Research Trust said the team had managed to secure the injured animal off the eastern end of Waiheke this afternoon and were working to untangle it.

"We have the orca hooked onto the line to the buoys, so that's really fantastic, that means we have the potential now to cut him free.

"At the moment we're just waiting for him to tire out a little bit so we can safely bring him alongside, and then attempt to cut the line off."

She said they had used a system called kegging to secure the killer whale.................
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Last edited by zooterkin; 27th December 2019 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 26th December 2019, 10:12 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Interesting weird parallel story from here if anyone finds it interesting
Edited by zooterkin:  <SNIP>
Edited for rule 11.


They have finally managed to free an Orca that has been on the news stuck in netting
I must admit that if I found an orca in my yard I would react with alarm. I would not rule violence out as a response, either. A fox would only be a threat to chickens, but an orca might try to eat the horses and that, naturally, could not be tolerated.
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Old 26th December 2019, 10:15 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I must admit that if I found an orca in my yard I would react with alarm. I would not rule violence out as a response, either. A fox would only be a threat to chickens, but an orca might try to eat the horses and that, naturally, could not be tolerated.
Lol
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 26th December 2019, 10:28 PM   #104
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Published now

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...m-fishing-line

Learn something rich dude who likes breaking animals skulls and tweeting about how manly you are.

Quote:
Injured orca freed from fishing line

Rescuers have freed an orca tangled in a crayfishing line east of Waiheke Island.


The young male orca had been trapped in the line since Monday.

Orca Research Trust founder and principal scientist Ingrid Visser says the orca was freed at 4.17pm this afternoon.

Throughout the week there have been unsuccessful attempts to cut it loose since it first got caught in the line in Northland.

Rescuers feared that the line - which had a buoy attached - could have severed a fin and killed the orca.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 27th December 2019, 12:18 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Doesn't seem like he treated the fox any more cruelly than the fox was gonna treat those chickens.

You think if the fox had found a chicken stuck in a fence, he would have tried to disentangle it? Called for a professional?

No. The fox would probably have started eating that chicken before it was even dead.
Foxes aren't, as you well know, 'cruel' to their prey; they simply have no choice. Cruelty involves making a choice. One definition:

"Cruelty is pleasure in inflicting suffering or inaction towards another's suffering when a clear remedy is readily available."
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Old 27th December 2019, 02:32 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Doesn't seem like he treated the fox any more cruelly than the fox was gonna treat those chickens.

You think if the fox had found a chicken stuck in a fence, he would have tried to disentangle it? Called for a professional?

No. The fox would probably have started eating that chicken before it was even dead.
There is a specific sore spot about foxes in the UK. They are the marmite of the animal world. Some people love them and some people just love to kill them. By tweeting your apparent pleasure at killing one you are effectively recreating that scene in Predator when Billy slices open his chest and dares the Predator to come for him. And Twitter, like the Predator, always obliges.
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Old 27th December 2019, 02:34 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Foxes aren't, as you well know, 'cruel' to their prey; they simply have no choice. Cruelty involves making a choice. One definition:

"Cruelty is pleasure in inflicting suffering or inaction towards another's suffering when a clear remedy is readily available."
I think cruelty can be unwitting as well.

“Merry Christmas! Oh, I heard you were getting divorced! That must be painful. Glad I am not getting divorced!”
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 27th December 2019, 02:47 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Foxes aren't, as you well know, 'cruel' to their prey; they simply have no choice. Cruelty involves making a choice. One definition:

"Cruelty is pleasure in inflicting suffering or inaction towards another's suffering when a clear remedy is readily available."
No they usually tend to be just vicious
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

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Old 27th December 2019, 02:55 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I see no issue. Baseball bat to the head is perfect death. Certainly not cruel. Could be cruel if done sloppily, but even then if the intent was quick death, I don't see how it could have been illegal.
His reason for having a baseball bat may be illegal...
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:03 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
His reason for having a baseball bat may be illegal...
You might want to expand on this one. How is any reason for owning a baseball bat illegal in the UK?
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:14 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Now I want to know what kind of formal parties you go to.
They only start formal...
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:21 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You might want to expand on this one. How is any reason for owning a baseball bat illegal in the UK?
It isn't, carrying it in public or using it in certain ways certainly could be, but owning one isn't.
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:23 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Like I said: in England&Wales, you're allowed to trap and kill foxes. BUT.... you're only allowed to trap them using approved traps/snares,
Only relevant if you can prove that the netting was set out deliberately to ensnare animals otherwise this law doesn't apply to this situation.
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:24 AM   #114
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Pretty much
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:31 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
No they usually tend to be just vicious
"Vicious" seems to be overly emotive too. The problem with foxes (which would also apply to almost any predator) is that when they get into a run or coop their instinct to take prey doesn't stop after they've killed the first bird, and since the chickens can't escape the fox will slaughter them all. People often ascribe it to cruelty or even wastefulness(!) but of course it's just a natural instinct running into an unnatural situation.
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:40 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
"Vicious" seems to be overly emotive too. The problem with foxes (which would also apply to almost any predator) is that when they get into a run or coop their instinct to take prey doesn't stop after they've killed the first bird, and since the chickens can't escape the fox will slaughter them all. People often ascribe it to cruelty or even wastefulness(!) but of course it's just a natural instinct running into an unnatural situation.
Well it is obviously instinct. This does not make it less vicious
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:43 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You might want to expand on this one. How is any reason for owning a baseball bat illegal in the UK?
If he bought it to use as an weapon e.g. for home "defence".
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:44 AM   #118
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And btw

Vicious is not an emotive term.

It is just a term for an animal being stuck in a situation in feels the need to kill things to get out of.

It isn't even that uncommon
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:45 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
If he bought it to use as an weapon e.g. for home "defence".
Do you mind linking to the law
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 27th December 2019, 03:45 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
And btw

Vicious is not an emotive term.

It is just a term for an animal being stuck in a situation in feels the need to kill things to get out of.

It isn't even that uncommon
Which wouldn't describe a fox in a hen house.
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