ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 24th March 2020, 12:25 PM   #1
ChristianProgressive
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,522
Is it too easy to get married in the US?

It seems to me that the reason that there are so many divorces are because people decide to get married in the first bloom of love before the day to day grind of living together reveals the true character of their partners.

Should we therefore require more effort to get married? Mandatory counseling, waiting periods, etc so that only those truly committed tie the knot?

Fewer marriages would mean fewer divorces. As a victim of a broken home via divorce, I see that as a good thing in general. The exception being where kids are involved. If you have a kid, you should be stuck with the relationship at least until the kids are grown and out of the house. Parents are supposed to be adults and should act like it: suck it up and deal with your marital problems LIKE adults.
__________________
"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28
ChristianProgressive is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 12:31 PM   #2
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,460
*puts popcorn in microwave*
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 12:42 PM   #3
gerdbonk
Penultimate Amazing
 
gerdbonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de Porciúncula
Posts: 19,021
There wouldn't be any divorces if only there weren't any marriages.
__________________
I'll bet you didn't notice that I was Totally ExoneratedTM when I wrote this.

Disavow any knowledge of my twitter here.
gerdbonk is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:05 PM   #4
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 42,813
Betteridge's Law of Headlines.

Anyway, I don't see the problem. Grown-ass adults can make their own choices. They don't need a nanny-state telling them they can't get married until they prove their love to the government.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:08 PM   #5
Deadie
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Fewer marriages would mean fewer divorces. As a victim of a broken home via divorce
As you might imagine a lot of people, myself included can sympathize.

Quote:
The exception being where kids are involved. If you have a kid, you should be stuck with the relationship at least until the kids are grown and out of the house.
Why though? My parents loathed one another for many years, constantly fought and threatened divorce over and over. Because of this they often took out their various frustrations on my younger sister and I. Neither my sister or myself have had any sort of relationship with dad in ~20 years. Being younger than myself she had to deal with him a bit longer than I did. Hell, I'll even admit I don't talk to see my mom as much as maybe I ought too, although I'd say my relationship with her was never really that bad.

Had they divorced sooner as opposed to 'just sticking it out' for the sake of "the children", I can almost guarantee that all of us would have been better off. I do not have fond memories of their fights over the bills and who's spending money on what because they still have a joint bank account and this and that.

Quote:
Parents are supposed to be adults and should act like it: suck it up and deal with your marital problems LIKE adults.
This is an incredibly silly mantra.

The best adult decision is the one where both parents agree to not have the kids grow up in a toxic environment. You know, like when plates of spaghetti are being tossed about like artillery. Though to be fair, at least separation, if not outright divorce would still be an adult move.

Last edited by Deadie; 24th March 2020 at 01:10 PM.
Deadie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:18 PM   #6
wasapi
Penultimate Amazing
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,312
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Betteridge's Law of Headlines.

Anyway, I don't see the problem. Grown-ass adults can make their own choices. They don't need a nanny-state telling them they can't get married until they prove their love to the government.
Yes. I completely agree. When people love each other, how they chose to acknowledge their mutual desire to be with each other, is not the governments business.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:21 PM   #7
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,594
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Betteridge's Law of Headlines.

Anyway, I don't see the problem. Grown-ass adults can make their own choices. They don't need a nanny-state telling them they can't get married until they prove their love to the government.
Right, and very few people get married if they don't think it is for live. It is just that some are mistaken.

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:24 PM   #8
ChristianProgressive
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Betteridge's Law of Headlines.

Anyway, I don't see the problem. Grown-ass adults can make their own choices. They don't need a nanny-state telling them they can't get married until they prove their love to the government.
Except that marriage has legal implications for both parties and any children the union might produce. The state has a compelling interest in seeing social and economic stability for families and especially children.
__________________
"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28
ChristianProgressive is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:25 PM   #9
Joe Random
Master Poster
 
Joe Random's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,269
Nope.

As a 50% shareholder in a failed marriage the idea that the marriage failed because it was rushed into is ludicrous to me on its face. And anyone seriously thinking that a couple who are at the point of wanting to split up should be forced to stick together until any children have left the nest is either a) ignorant of how combating adults WILL both use kids as weapons against each other and take out frustrations on them as well --or b) a sadist with a vested interest in more kids growing up totally screwed emotionally, in need of therapy, and likely to continue the dysfunctional cycle themselves.
Joe Random is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:28 PM   #10
ChristianProgressive
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by Deadie View Post
The best adult decision is the one where both parents agree to not have the kids grow up in a toxic environment. You know, like when plates of spaghetti are being tossed about like artillery. Though to be fair, at least separation, if not outright divorce would still be an adult move.
What would be adult is to face up to the obligation THEY FREELY INTERED INTO and grow up, learn to compromise, and grow as persons.

Y'know, like the adults they supposedly are.

I'd like to see judges start ordering mandatory counseling for more domestic disputes that come before them. Sometimes even adults need an outside authority make them do the right things.
__________________
"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28
ChristianProgressive is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:30 PM   #11
ChristianProgressive
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
Nope.

As a 50% shareholder in a failed marriage the idea that the marriage failed because it was rushed into is ludicrous to me on its face. And anyone seriously thinking that a couple who are at the point of wanting to split up should be forced to stick together until any children have left the nest is either a) ignorant of how combating adults WILL both use kids as weapons against each other and take out frustrations on them as well --or b) a sadist with a vested interest in more kids growing up totally screwed emotionally, in need of therapy, and likely to continue the dysfunctional cycle themselves.
Courts have the ability to order counseling where appropriate.
__________________
"As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." - Matthew 24:37

"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." - Luke 21:28
ChristianProgressive is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:31 PM   #12
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,098
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
*puts popcorn in microwave*
Throw some in for me?
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:40 PM   #13
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 54,463
"Marriage is a sham for fools!" --C. Wolf, marriage expert
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:40 PM   #14
Joe Random
Master Poster
 
Joe Random's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,269
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Throw some in for me?
The State has an interest in your blood pressure, so I'm afraid you won't be allowed to salt it.
Joe Random is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:47 PM   #15
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 21,489
Looking forward to this thread being FREELY INTERRED soon.

"First bloom of love"
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 01:52 PM   #16
Deadie
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
What would be adult is to face up to the obligation THEY FREELY INTERED INTO and grow up, learn to compromise, and grow as persons.
This doesn't at all answer the question I originally posed:
Originally Posted by Deadie View Post
Why though?
Deadie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 02:12 PM   #17
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,505
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
The exception being where kids are involved. If you have a kid, you should be stuck with the relationship at least until the kids are grown and out of the house. Parents are supposed to be adults and should act like it: suck it up and deal with your marital problems LIKE adults.
You should have to stay with a partner that is physically or mentally abusing you? Is having one of more affairs? Has a gambling or other addiction and constantly steals money to feed it? Turns out to be an unrepentant criminal?

Seems your idea has issues.

Might decrease divorces, but I suspect the number of murders would increase.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)


Last edited by PhantomWolf; 24th March 2020 at 02:14 PM.
PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 02:26 PM   #18
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,098
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Seems your idea has issues.

Might decrease divorces, but I suspect the number of murders would increase.
So you agree it could work?
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 03:14 PM   #19
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,931
The whole problem is the nuclear family: mom & dad & 2.35 children stewing together in their fetid little bourgeois dwelling, learning to hate, learning to loathe each other. If "family" meant a community with work, responsibilities, interests, and pleasures shared among a group -- a large group, I would hope -- that included several generations, you'd see a lot less strife between parents. And between siblings, too.

You'd also see the drunks, sadists, drones, and crazies being edited out, not necessarily by brute banishment, but by a process of quiet non-inclusion in the expanded family's life.

I use the word "expanded" rather than "extended," because the latter term has its own meaning, and I'd like to see something better come into existence.

And I do NOT mean a village! Take it from a survivor of village life, you need -- we all need -- a warmer, more responsible way of getting along.
__________________
Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson

What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 04:42 PM   #20
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,860
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Looking forward to this thread being FREELY INTERRED soon.

"First bloom of love"
I wonder if there's any correlation between age at first marriage and likelihood of divorce?
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 04:52 PM   #21
Loss Leader
I would save the receptionist.
Moderator
 
Loss Leader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 27,399
People should put more thought and time into the decision to marry. There should be absolutely no interference by government (except age/relation limits) in the ability of couples to marry.
__________________
I have the honor to be
Your Obdt. St

L. Leader
Loss Leader is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 05:09 PM   #22
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Betwixt
Posts: 16,049
I wonder what a graph of "average duration of marriage" over the past few centuries would look like. Long term, I'd predict either a steady or a generally increasing trend. In recent times there are more divorces, but there are also fewer marriages ending with early death from war, disease, childbirth, etc.
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 05:24 PM   #23
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 42,813
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
Yes. I completely agree. When people love each other, how they chose to acknowledge their mutual desire to be with each other, is not the governments business.
Well, it's not quite that simple.

Anyone can get "married", the same way anyone can start "dating". You just tell your friends and family you're together, whatever that means to you and your community.

Telling the government that you're together in a specific way that entitles you to certain government-granted privileges is a different matter. In that sense, maybe the government *should* be a little more selective about who it grants those privileges to. Especially since dissolving the government-sanctioned partnership does burden the courts a bit.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I want to go back to the days when you weren't allowed to get a divorce unless you could really prove that you tried your hardest to make it work and the other party was just completely incorrigible.

So maybe, rather than make marriage harder, make divorce easier? But then why bother having the government recognize it at all? I've felt all along that the best solution to the gay marriage debate is to get the government out of the marriage business altogether. If you simply must file taxes jointly, or have next of kin privileges in hospitals... I dunno.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 05:35 PM   #24
chrispy
Muse
 
chrispy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Guatemala
Posts: 758
Originally Posted by Deadie View Post
As you might imagine a lot of people, myself included can sympathize.

Had they divorced sooner as opposed to 'just sticking it out' for the sake of "the children", I can almost guarantee that all of us would have been better off. I do not have fond memories of their fights over the bills and who's spending money on what because they still have a joint bank account and this and that.

^^^THIS THIS THIS THIS^^^ My experience exactly
__________________
Just a spec in the Spectrum...
chrispy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th March 2020, 06:18 PM   #25
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 25,973
Absolutely! Marriage must be restricted to those betrothed as children by their parents, for financial reasons! And anyone having "marital relations" that doesn't meet that qualification must be stoned to death! DEATH!
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 02:07 AM   #26
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 90,447
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Absolutely! Marriage must be restricted to those betrothed as children by their parents, for financial reasons! And anyone having "marital relations" that doesn't meet that qualification must be stoned to death! DEATH!

Until quite recently, the 13th century (I’m British and “quite” is very flexible) marriage for most was really no more than shacking up with each other.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 02:10 AM   #27
MoeFaux
Suspicious Mind
 
MoeFaux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,462
My not-so-scientific opinion is that if everyone had their starter marriage taken care of, they wouldn't be so keen to get married again. It seems that young women pine endlessly for "The Big Day," that their entire life revolves around getting married. But golly, nothing cures that like a first marriage. Once you've got that starter one out of the way, you're in no rush to try it again. One divorce early on prevents future divorces!
__________________
This post brought to you by the artist fauxmerly known as Moe.
MoeFaux is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 02:14 AM   #28
Sherkeu
Graduate Poster
 
Sherkeu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Disneyland
Posts: 1,230
The ramifications of broken relationships with or without kids are not dependent on whether someone signed a paper, went to a class, or had a minister say some words with an expensive party at the end. But sure, it is important to some people and in some cultures.

I have never, and will never get 'legally married'. It is none of the government's business who I dwell or procreate with.

Last edited by Sherkeu; 25th March 2020 at 02:17 AM.
Sherkeu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 03:42 AM   #29
Wolrab
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,662
If only The State had complete and utter control over every aspect of our lives. What could go wrong.
__________________
"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov
Wolrab is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 05:38 AM   #30
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 54,463
Of all the ridiculous notions humanity has come up with over its history I'd put monogamy as one of the top three most ridiculous. Why on earth is the notion so popular? The practice sure as hell isn't! Shouldn't that alone indicate it's not a feasible idea?
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 05:50 AM   #31
rockysmith76
Muse
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 966
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
It seems to me that the reason that there are so many divorces are because people decide to get married in the first bloom of love before the day to day grind of living together reveals the true character of their partners.

Should we therefore require more effort to get married? Mandatory counseling, waiting periods, etc so that only those truly committed tie the knot?

Fewer marriages would mean fewer divorces. As a victim of a broken home via divorce, I see that as a good thing in general. The exception being where kids are involved. If you have a kid, you should be stuck with the relationship at least until the kids are grown and out of the house. Parents are supposed to be adults and should act like it: suck it up and deal with your marital problems LIKE adults.
So you end with a "Think of the Children plea" as the justification for a Totalitarian step into people's personal lives to control how they relate too each other. FAIL.

By that logic one could make an argument for a breeder's license because bringing a kid into the world bears a greater responsibility than driving car and you need one for that.

Or maybe it is necessary to try to be the answer to a question noone seems to have asked.
rockysmith76 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 05:51 AM   #32
rockysmith76
Muse
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 966
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Except that marriage has legal implications for both parties and any children the union might produce. The state has a compelling interest in seeing social and economic stability for families and especially children.
The State has no business interjecting that far into peoples personal lives. This isnt an Orwell novel.
rockysmith76 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 05:53 AM   #33
rockysmith76
Muse
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 966
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
What would be adult is to face up to the obligation THEY FREELY INTERED INTO and grow up, learn to compromise, and grow as persons.

Y'know, like the adults they supposedly are.

I'd like to see judges start ordering mandatory counseling for more domestic disputes that come before them. Sometimes even adults need an outside authority make them do the right things.
The state has no right to interject into people's homes, and this isn't an Orwell novel. If the folks want to get married solely to breed they should screened and licensed for that. If they are a bad or good match is noones business but their own.
rockysmith76 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 05:58 AM   #34
rockysmith76
Muse
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 966
Originally Posted by sackett View Post
The whole problem is the nuclear family: mom & dad & 2.35 children stewing together in their fetid little bourgeois dwelling, learning to hate, learning to loathe each other. If "family" meant a community with work, responsibilities, interests, and pleasures shared among a group -- a large group, I would hope -- that included several generations, you'd see a lot less strife between parents. And between siblings, too.

You'd also see the drunks, sadists, drones, and crazies being edited out, not necessarily by brute banishment, but by a process of quiet non-inclusion in the expanded family's life.

I use the word "expanded" rather than "extended," because the latter term has its own meaning, and I'd like to see something better come into existence.

And I do NOT mean a village! Take it from a survivor of village life, you need -- we all need -- a warmer, more responsible way of getting along.
bourgeois.....socialist....orwellian...... sickening
rockysmith76 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 05:59 AM   #35
rockysmith76
Muse
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 966
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
People should put more thought and time into the decision to marry. There should be absolutely no interference by government (except age/relation limits) in the ability of couples to marry.
Yup
rockysmith76 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 06:02 AM   #36
SuburbanTurkey
Illuminator
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Norwood, MA
Posts: 3,329
Does the increased divorce rate actually track with number of unhappy marriages?

Divorce used to be much more rare, but that doesn't mean everyone was happy in the home. For better or worse, marriage was seen as permanent, personal happiness be damned. Divorced couples are probably better off than bitter people who remain married for practical or legal reasons.

People who stay together for the kids probably aren't doing them any favors. Children are perceptive and can tell when their parents resent each other or are otherwise unhappy. It's probably bad modelling of healthy personal relationships as well.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 07:07 AM   #37
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 42,813
Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
What would be adult is to face up to the obligation THEY FREELY INTERED INTO and grow up, learn to compromise, and grow as persons.
I don't think that's an obligation they owe to the government. Not even in a scenario where the government is officially recognizing their partnership.

I don't the government should ever be in the business of auditing or judging a private citizen's commitment to "grow up, learn to compromise, etc."

That's a social function of declaring your marriage: To tell your own community - your family and close friends - that you are making this commitment, and to ask them to bear witness to the commitment you're making. Whether their witness has value or bears fruit is up to you and your community, not the government.

The legal function of declaring your marriage to the government is a separate thing.

When one entrepreneur contracts with another, the government doesn't demand proof that they're worthy to contract with each other. The government simply judges whether they've abided by the terms of the contract, and what obligations to impose based on those terms.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 07:10 AM   #38
mumblethrax
Species traitor
 
mumblethrax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,500
"Married you may be, if you solve my riddles three!"
mumblethrax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 07:17 AM   #39
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,098
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Well, it's not quite that simple.

Anyone can get "married", the same way anyone can start "dating". You just tell your friends and family you're together, whatever that means to you and your community.

Telling the government that you're together in a specific way that entitles you to certain government-granted privileges is a different matter. In that sense, maybe the government *should* be a little more selective about who it grants those privileges to. Especially since dissolving the government-sanctioned partnership does burden the courts a bit.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I want to go back to the days when you weren't allowed to get a divorce unless you could really prove that you tried your hardest to make it work and the other party was just completely incorrigible.

So maybe, rather than make marriage harder, make divorce easier? But then why bother having the government recognize it at all? I've felt all along that the best solution to the gay marriage debate is to get the government out of the marriage business altogether. If you simply must file taxes jointly, or have next of kin privileges in hospitals... I dunno.
While I personally benefit from that recognition, I'm not sure it is good for society. I think we would have a more equitable society if there were no governmental recognition of particular personal relationships as being more valid than others.

I think there was an episode of The West Wing where this was proposed as a solution to the gay marriage issue. I don't know if I had thought about it before then, but I remember that being the first time I remember the idea being proposed in a popular way.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th March 2020, 07:19 AM   #40
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,460
Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
The State has no business interjecting that far into peoples personal lives. This isnt an Orwell novel.
It frightens me when we agree. Have I slipped into a parallel world again? How is Berenstain Bears spelled here?
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:37 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.