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Tags 9/11 , aa77 , ae911truth , Craig McKee , pentagon

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Old 20th November 2017, 05:31 PM   #41
DGM
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Strange --
The link to your video appears to be corrupted because the forum video
viewbox expands with empty content.
The video may be viewed by the curious by inserting the alphanumeric string youtube v=_HlUmmPBoLg into your browser. Fonebone
Works fine for me...............
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Old 20th November 2017, 05:48 PM   #42
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No plane at the Pentagon, again?

Surely this is the last twitching of the 9/11 conspiracy.
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Old 20th November 2017, 06:36 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
No plane at the Pentagon, again?

Surely this is the last twitching of the 9/11 conspiracy.
Lately, this has been its major twitching.
Most of the fools for which there was hope have seen the light.
Only the hopeless remain.
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Old 20th November 2017, 06:46 PM   #44
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This is less about fact and science / physics / engineering.. but about not accepting ANYTHING coming thru official channels... the government, the mainstream media, corporations... As far as truthers are concerned this cabal is pulling one over on the people and anything they say or report is to be read as a boldface lie.

Some truthers attempt to sound "scientific" to pull the wool over the eyes of "journalists" like Craig McKee or Barry Zwicker and assorted "activists" and concerned people of all sorts of backgrounds. None of their "arguments" hold any water... but that won't stop them from going on and on and never admitting they were/are wrong. They simply pop up with another point to drive the "they lied to us" them home.

Of course official channels DO spin... but the truthers see this on a whole other level.

It's sad and amusing... but it's hardly worth the time people have devoted to trying to show that these people are nutts.
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Old 20th November 2017, 07:15 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Isn't that twice the same link?
Oops
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Old 20th November 2017, 07:19 PM   #46
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They have 200 names out of 250 million who say they are true believers? That's significant numbers right there!
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Old 20th November 2017, 07:21 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Works fine for me...............
Yes - I just tested the link and the link malady has been corrected.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 04:35 PM   #48
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They are all sooo very excited about this new group and its message!


One guy created a poll:
"What caused the damage at the Pentagon?"
A) A missile? (27 voted yes)
B) Explosives within the Pentagon? (14)
C) something else? (0)

Hehe wonderful, 2/3 of the morons say "missile", yet Craig McKee himself thinks that is not supported by evidence:
One guy names Patrick Gainor posted "Thanks for the add... PS it was a cruise missle", to which McKee responded: "Patrick, I am very surprised so many people believe it was a missile with no evidence to support this. But the purpose of this group is for us to agree that a 757 didn't hit the building rather than debating the missile theory. If we agree that this has been established, then the official story is shown to be false."

Craig, you believe plenty of stupid stuff without actual evidence yourself, you cannot be surprised!?

One Robin Galunić-Farizi opines: "If you look the videos released, and the post-crash pictures, looks like Global Hawk drone hit it"
McKee: "The point of this group is to agree that no 757 hit the Pentagon. We don't need a theory. And there is no evidence for a cruise missile."

That is the mantra, the strategy that McKee has been pursuing for at least a few months now: Please, Truthers, No Theories! He had blogged on May 1st: "Truthers must focus on destroying the official story, not splintering over dozens of Theories"

He realizes full well that NO Truther theory survives any test.


ETA:
Group link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/388111014962530/
It was created on Nov 16 10:38 pm (my time zone: CET)
AE911T posted their piece about the radio debate on November 17 at 4:11am
Kelly David was made admin on November 17 at 5:45am
On November 18 at 1:17am McKee commented at AE: "For those interested in this subject, I've just created a new group called No 757 hit the Pentagon." That was more than a day after he created the group.
I spotted it towards the end of November 18. It had 110 members then
End ofMembersDiff.
Nov 18110+110
Nov 19168+58
Nov 20205+37
Nov 21225+20
Nov 22239+14

Typical pattern for any new group.
McKee intends to use the number of people of the list to 'show that the majority of the movement isn't buying the government claim of a "crash."'. Well fine! He will fizzle out under 500. If that is the majority of the Truth Movement: Thanks for proving my point that your Movement is tiny!
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Last edited by Oystein; 22nd November 2017 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 05:14 PM   #49
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So, the purpose of the group is to believe not support the belief.

Sounds about right for this group............
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Old 22nd November 2017, 06:00 PM   #50
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I have been saying this for ages... truthers simply don't believe anything from official sources... anything from the mainstream media or from a corporate PR release. It's all about DISBELIEF....

Since they don't believe then they conclude what we were told was FALSE and that's all that matters... They lied to us... Why did they lie to us? Because liars lie to cover up / avoid the truth.... Ergo gov knows the truth but they ain't sayin' and what they do say is a pack of lies... including NIST. You don't need to know much more than this.
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Old 22nd November 2017, 07:43 PM   #51
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/388111014962530/about/

242 idiots - and they have no clue they are nuts
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Old 23rd November 2017, 10:06 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
I have been saying this for ages... truthers simply don't believe anything from official sources... anything from the mainstream media or from a corporate PR release. It's all about DISBELIEF....

Since they don't believe then they conclude what we were told was FALSE and that's all that matters... They lied to us... Why did they lie to us? Because liars lie to cover up / avoid the truth.... Ergo gov knows the truth but they ain't sayin' and what they do say is a pack of lies... including NIST. You don't need to know much more than this.
I agree with most of what you stated. It has been my experience that "truthers" accept information/data from MSM when it fits their belief.
ex: news reporter stating WTC7 collapsed before it did.

Groups like CIT, AE911T strive to cherry pick data, misrepresent statements, etc, since they have no hard evidence to back up the explanation they want the supporters to believe.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 12:14 PM   #53
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They never explain how the collapses were made to happen... how it was set up undetected... and of course... WHY were the towers destroyed? Were the hijackers faked? What was that about? The whole scenario they outline... when they do is way beyond belief.

And the motive for all this? steal gold? start wars? take away rights?
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Old 23rd November 2017, 12:48 PM   #54
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There are as many conspiracy theories as there are theorists.

Trying to get them all on the same page is like herding cats.
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Old 23rd November 2017, 01:19 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
There are as many conspiracy theories as there are theorists.

Trying to get them all on the same page is like herding cats.
This does not count the multiplicity effect, however.
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Old 24th November 2017, 07:18 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
There are as many conspiracy theories as there are theorists.

Trying to get them all on the same page is like herding cats.
You are correct - there are (to a first approximation anyway) zero 9/11 CTs, and zero 9/11 CTists.

Because if you pay careful attention, you will notice that practically none of them ever commit to a conspiracy theory to explain the events of 9/11, which at a minimum ought to
  • include all three crime scenes,
  • be internally consistent
  • have a bare minimum amount of detail on the what, the how, the who and the why
Ask any 9/11 Truther to summarize concisely and comprehensively in a couple of paragraphs "what happend on 9/11", and you will run into silence, evasions, wild goose chases, and confused minds running into random details. Ask the same of a sane student of 9/11 ("debunker"), and you are highly likely to get, in about two paragraphs, a consise, comprehensive, coherent and consisten summary of who did what how and why at the WTC, the Pentagon and in Shanksville.
The latter qualifies as theory.
The former practically never. And Craig McKee actively advises his fellow Truthers NOT to have any theories.

We should rename this subforum "9/11 Conspiracy Non-Theories".
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Old 25th November 2017, 02:22 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
You are correct - there are (to a first approximation anyway) zero 9/11 CTs, and zero 9/11 CTists.

Because if you pay careful attention, you will notice that practically none of them ever commit to a conspiracy theory to explain the events of 9/11, which at a minimum ought to
  • include all three crime scenes,
  • be internally consistent
  • have a bare minimum amount of detail on the what, the how, the who and the why
Ask any 9/11 Truther to summarize concisely and comprehensively in a couple of paragraphs "what happend on 9/11", and you will run into silence, evasions, wild goose chases, and confused minds running into random details. Ask the same of a sane student of 9/11 ("debunker"), and you are highly likely to get, in about two paragraphs, a consise, comprehensive, coherent and consisten summary of who did what how and why at the WTC, the Pentagon and in Shanksville.
The latter qualifies as theory.
The former practically never. And Craig McKee actively advises his fellow Truthers NOT to have any theories.

We should rename this subforum "9/11 Conspiracy Non-Theories".
Do you have a cite for the highlighted? Should be interesting reading.
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Old 25th November 2017, 03:24 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Do you have a cite for the highlighted? Should be interesting reading.
Two days ago in my post #48 I linked McKee's blog.
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Old 25th November 2017, 07:07 AM   #59
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Because if they do give a narrative or any detail as to the events they can be pinned down and addressed. Like Apollohaxers it is to their advantage to be vague.
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Old 25th November 2017, 08:25 AM   #60
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I know this has been said before... You don't need to be a rocket science to have an interest in the collapses at the trade center... or the destruction of the pentagon. But to engage in intelligent discussion and have INFORMED opinions on the matters, you should have some technical background... Again you needn't be a PhD in physics nor hold engineering licenses... but at least college level training in science or engineering would seem to qualify one as a credible person on the subject.

Politics and media critique is another matter. I find it amazing/incredible/mind boggling that people like David Griffin, Graham MacQueen. Adam Syed or Zwicker, or Craig McKee,Ted Walters, Sander Hicks, and several others... and the list goes on and on re 911 Truth Activists have no technical background whatsoever. And DRG had the gall to publish a book about the collapse of 7wtc! His background is in theology.

Then you have some truth activists who do have technical background... Dwain Deets, Gage, Gerry, Tony... Barnum, Judy Woods and this list goes on too, who seem to be in denial of science and engineering because of their political agenda...

It's fine to demand transparency and accountability from the gov re the investigation... and that they "get it right" and not fudge their findings.

Delusion and denial will never end...
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Old 27th November 2017, 02:11 PM   #61
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After more than 10 days, Craig's new Facebook group has 321 members. That's a pretty bad start actually.

Some of the latest new members that I recognize are Fran Shure (the wanna-by psychologist featured by AE911T), Ronald F. Avery (architect, AE signer), Susan Serpa (many years an activist for da Twoof) and Barrie Zwicker, who is also an admin now. Oh, and Pernille Grumme - isn't she Niels Harrit's wife?
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Old 27th November 2017, 02:50 PM   #62
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Oh, haha, nice little exchange in Craig's group - the schisms are showing:

Fran Shure posted this yesterday - remember, her thing is psychology, and she is promoted by Richard Gage:
Originally Posted by Fran Shure
Sorry to say, Craig, that this attempt itself is divisive of our movement, not unifying. Dispassionate discussion of facts and evidence is the hallmark of truth-seeking, not jumping on a bandwagon.
The members of our movement who, after meticulous study, believe that a large airliner created the observable damage at the Pentagon certainly do not believe the official story, just as we who believe large airliners hit the twin towers do not believe the official story. To say otherwise is misunderstanding their message, at best.
These researchers have a right to be carefully heard and responded to with respectful and thoughtful questions, not this sort of attempt.
What damaged the Pentagon is a very emotional issue within our community, and we always have the choice to agree to disagree about it. I hope my good friends on this list will always discuss with me, not triangulate!
Craig responded a bit later:
Originally Posted by Craig McKee
It seems that if you stand up to the small minority who focus on showing us all that is RIGHT about the Pentagon official story instead of what is WRONG with it, you will be called divisive. Apparently, if you stand up for what the evidence shows and seek common ground with the majority of truth activists, you are splintering the movement. It’s an upside down world we live in.
Yes, Twoofies, that's the sad truth: The "Truth Movement" has neither truth nor movement, for the moment someone dares to move and say something true, he is labeled a heretic, a shill, an infiltrator. So all you guys do is sit still with the nonsense from 2006, and do nothing.
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Old 28th November 2017, 12:58 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Oh, and Pernille Grumme - isn't she Niels Harrit's wife?

Indeed she is:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=262
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Old 28th November 2017, 11:14 AM   #64
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I Count some 33 danes on the list, including Grumme. Pretty good for a small country like Denmark, to account for 10 percent of the members

Most were added after the Danish truth movement promoted Craigs ideas 10 days ago.

Among the 33 danes are many long time and well known truthers.
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Old Today, 03:01 PM   #65
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3 days ago, Craig McKee published this article, and his list of "No 757" supporters, in his blog:

Oppose the Lie: Add your Name to the 'No 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11' List!

The list is at the end of the article, and currently has 646 names. In the article, he singles out, among others, David Ray Griffin (whom he seems to adore), and Niels Harrit. The latter seems to have been especially effective at gathering disciples, for the list contains no fewer than 113 names from Denmark (17% of the total)!

The following AE911Truth activists are listed:
Kelly David, COO and Board member (acting as herself)
Craig McKee himself, prolific writer
Mike Bondi
Michael Cook
Bernadette David (related to Kelly?)
Sandra Jelmi, translation team
Jeff Long
Neil Marquis (never heard of him)
James McDowell, writing team
Andy Steel, chief propagandist

The following AE911Truth petition signers are identified:
Bjørn Aadnøy (Sweden)
Marty Beck (California)
Mads Buhl (Denmark)
Johan Tino Frederiksen (Denmark)
Thomas Kolstø (Norway)
John Krøll (Denark)
Larry Martz (?)
Timothy Smith (Ohio)

Other names Craig gives special mention:
"...authors Elias Davidsson, Christopher Bollyn, Enver Masud; academics Anthony Hall, Paul Zarembka, and A.K. Dewdney: filmmakers Massimo Mazzucco, John Massaria, Art Olivier, and Chris Emery; 9/11 Consensus Panel members Giulietto Chiesa and Dennis McMahon (in addition to Mazzucco and Griffin); pilots Rob Balsamo, Bruce Sinclair, Shelton Lankford, and Ted Muga; journalists Dan Dicks, Sheila Casey, Andy Steele, Dave VonKleist, and Josef Hanji; researchers Craig Ranke, Aldo Marquis, Barbara Honegger, and Domenick DiMaggio; and other dedicated truth activists like Adam Syed, Adam Ruff, Cheryl Curtiss, James Hufferd, Michael Cook, Jeff Long, and so many more. And, of course, many of these names could easily fall into several of these categories. We even have a former Member of Parliament in Denmark, Ole Gerstrøm, and a former federal major-party candidate in Canada, Bev Collins."


Here is a run-down of the numbers of supperters by country:

U.S.A.: 267

Denmark: 113
Norway: 12
Sweden: 9
Iceland: 1

Canada: 58
United Kingdom: 32 (including "England", "Scotland", "Wales", "Northern Ireland")
Australia: 9
Germany: 8
Italy: 6
The Netherlands: 6
France: 5
Spain: 3
2 each from: Belgium, Brazil, Indonesia*, Ireland, Mexico, New Zealand, South Africa (14 total)
1 each from: Colombia*, Costa Rica*, Croatia, Cyprus, Estonia, Honduras*, India, Israel, Kenya, Malaysia*, Myanmar, Nigeria, Pakistan*, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Senegal*, Switzerland, Ukraine*, Yemen‎ (21 total)

So there are 297 from non-US countries, 267 are identified as USA, and the rest (82) has no place or country, or I missed them.


* the names from these countries are English or Danish, though
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Old Today, 04:18 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
3 days ago, Craig McKee published this article, and his list of "No 757" supporters, in his blog:

...pilots Rob Balsamo, Bruce Sinclair, Shelton Lankford, and Ted Muga;
Cap't Bob/Tiffany used to be big on saying "We do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time." He used to say that so often you'd think he was flogging a cheap mule. Guess that's pretty much history now - not that any one really believed it in the first place. He and his flunkies, by allowing their names to be associated with this ridiculously absurd and idiotic (but I repeat myself) "No 757 hit the Pentagon", have removed any and all possible doubt whether or not they are indeed among the world's dumbest, goofiest and most gullible aviators human beings on this spinning rock.

They are.
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Old Today, 04:25 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Michael Cook
Cook memorably managed to get himself committed for a period of time due to his paranoid truthiness. He was working as a teacher and giving one of his co-workers and her daughter a ride. But he wanted them to understand the danger they faced by being with him since he was one of the few who really knew what happened on 9-11. So he told them and showed them his gun to emphasize how serious this all was.

Well, no surprise, his co-worker quickly informed the principal at the school. He apparently was committed briefly, but got out. Unfortunately he made a wee little mistake when sending an email to then-President Bush:

Quote:
I made a mistake, a poor choice of words, in an email on 5/18. What I should have said was something like, "Eventually, President Bush will be charged with Treason, be found guilty by a jury of his peers, and be shot by a firing squad." What I did say was, "Eventually, he will be shot for treason." So, the Secret Service came to see me.
He was charged with a weapons violation (apparently he was no longer qualified for his concealed carry permit due to his time in the loony bin). Then he made his biggest mistake; he contacted a Truther lawyer recommended by Uncle Fetzer:

Quote:
....following the advice of a 9/11 Truth aware lawyer I was connected with thanks to Dr. Jim Fetzer, just prior to a pretrial hearing on 10/6/06. This lawyer very promptly contacted me and I allowed him to remain in my service.
The lawyer suggested a competency hearing. Guess what? Cook was found to be not competent and went back to the rubber rooms for about 10 months before he was finally released.
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Old Today, 07:10 PM   #68
JSanderO
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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I find it actually sad that people can be so deluded. Wasn't DNA evidence found of most of the passengers? If so was this made up out of whole clothe? Or planted there? It borders on insanity.
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