ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 12th November 2019, 10:46 AM   #121
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
...which is why my very first question regarding this was 'so who are Melissa and Connie?' I don't facebook, so can't chase this down, but if it came from the earlier facebook link, it came from the actual claimants fb.

Dismissing this wholesale, are we?
Yes, I'm dismissing an anonymous comment on facebook that is totally unverified.

How much stock do you put into anonymous narratives offered in the comments sections of news stories?

Edit: Found my old login. There is literally no other context provided for this photo other than a her comment: "and then there's this"

Melissa Guida seems to be someone living in Lima, Ohio, 4 hrs drive from Naperville. Seems legit.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 12th November 2019 at 10:51 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 10:51 AM   #122
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,852
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Yes, I'm dismissing an anonymous comment on facebook that is totally unverified.

How much stock do you put into anonymous narratives offered in the comments sections of news stories?
You dismiss counter-narratives. I inquire further.

Says it all, really.

re: your edit: how old is the fb account? The prose sounds like a young person, very challenged with the use of 'there/their/they're'. A minor, perhaps?

Is this the only Melissa Guida listed? Cuz I googled and found others in New York. 24 in NYC alone. Linkedin, etc

Last edited by Thermal; 12th November 2019 at 10:57 AM.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 10:52 AM   #123
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 7,155
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Am I the only one who has seen this from the facebook link?
The Facebook link was a post by someone called Mary Vahl, who is the wife of Justin Vahl, the guy

This is a photo by someone called Melissa Guida and it appears to be a screenshot of someone else's phone, someone called Connie Hall

So how would we have seen the photo from the original Facebook link? Is it supposed to be a comment on that link? Because there doesn't seem to be any evidence that it is.

Also, the odds of anyone seeing a random comment on that original post (if that is indeed what this was, which isn't clear) are pretty remote, as there are right now 3,600 comments so it would probably take all day to read them all, if you could even get Facebook to serve up that many.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 10:54 AM   #124
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You dismiss counter-narratives. I inquire further.

Says it all, really.
Please respond to this damning accusation i uncovered.

__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:02 AM   #125
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post

Is this the only Melissa Guida listed? Cuz I googled and found others in New York. 24 in NYC alone. Linkedin, etc
The Melissa Guida that made the comment has a facebook page that shows multiple friends and a likely spouse living in Lima Ohio. It was as easy as clicking her name on the original comment and poking around.

This lady isn't involved in any way. She's just sharing BS she found on the internet. Seems legit.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:10 AM   #126
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,852
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Please respond to this damning accusation i uncovered.

https://cdn.ifaketextmessage.com/con...phone-E2Vu.png
Down to strawman arguments already? How the time does fly.

To repeat yet again, I inquire who these people are to determine whether they are credible.

You dismiss possible counterarguments wholesale.

Done and done, I guess.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:11 AM   #127
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,035
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Melissa Guida seems to be someone living in Lima, Ohio, 4 hrs drive from Naperville. Seems legit.
That sounds positively next-door in US terms.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:13 AM   #128
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,852
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The Melissa Guida that made the comment has a facebook page that shows multiple friends and a likely spouse living in Lima Ohio. It was as easy as clicking her name on the original comment and poking around.

This lady isn't involved in any way. She's just sharing BS she found on the internet. Seems legit.
As I say, I don't fb, so I can't see this stuff.

What was the context of being on the claimants' fb page? Commenting, or what?

eta: excuse my fb ignorance, but if I understand correctly, Melissa is the poster, and she was not involved in this text convo? Connie Hall is the presumed worker? The prose is surely claiming to be a worker in that BWW

Last edited by Thermal; 12th November 2019 at 11:16 AM.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:13 AM   #129
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Down to strawman arguments already? How the time does fly.

To repeat yet again, I inquire who these people are to determine whether they are credible.

You dismiss possible counterarguments wholesale.

Done and done, I guess.
I'll consider any counterargument that shows a shred of evidence of being remotely true.

A screencap of a conversation between two unidentified people is not a counterargument. It's literally nothing.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
As I say, I don't fb, so I can't see this stuff.

What was the context of being on the claimants' fb page? Commenting, or what?
She posted the image as a comment on original FB post telling the story of the restaurant incident. People have replied to her asking her to verify her story, which she has not done. It is becoming increasingly clear this lady has no idea the veracity of the image she is posting.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 12th November 2019 at 11:15 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:13 AM   #130
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,638
Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
I am confused (not an unusual event). How can a white patron tell black workers he doesn't want black people seated near him yet not expect to be eating "special" sauce on his wings?



There is no way a black or white (hopefully) employee will let this slide. Hell, I've had to tell people of all walks of life that what they are saying is unacceptable.
My rule of thumb is that when a narrative is this confusing and counter-intuitive, the possibility that it is bad fiction should be seriously considered.

The narrative in that second FB screenshot seems a lot more plausible.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:22 AM   #131
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,507
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
My rule of thumb is that when a narrative is this confusing and counter-intuitive, the possibility that it is bad fiction should be seriously considered.

The narrative in that second FB screenshot seems a lot more plausible.
I can't see it. Could someone summarize it?
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:22 AM   #132
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 7,128
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Why would you assume anything about this? It's a picture of a text between two unidentified parties. It's so shoddily sourced it would be generous to call it hearsay.



Yes, both sides for sure. One is a family that has publicly made a claim that no one has denied, the other is a pixelated screenshot of a conversation between two unidentified strangers. Equally credible for sure.

How did bluesnjr even find this pic? Where does this come from? I can't really explore the original post because I'm not a facebook user, so I can only see the original post without comments. Was this from the comments section of the original post?
If only I had told you in my post where I'd seen this.......

Sometimes I despair.

It's in the link that someone else posted referencing the Facebook post. It's right ******* there... scroll down.
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:25 AM   #133
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
If only I had told you in my post where I'd seen this.......

Sometimes I despair.

It's in the link that someone else posted referencing the Facebook post. It's right ******* there... scroll down.
It isn't visible without signing into FB. Comments don't appear on facebook posts without signing in. It was right in my post, you just had to read it.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:28 AM   #134
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Can anyone here explain to my why Hitchen's razor wouldn't apply here? Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The assertion is a picture of an alleged conversation between two unidentified people?

There is zero evidence that this conversation ever occurred, or if any of the people having it have any real information about the incident. Faking a text screenshot is trivially easy.

Am I taking crazy pills?
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 12th November 2019 at 11:30 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:29 AM   #135
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,638
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I can't see it. Could someone summarize it?
Black group sits down near a white patron who has a Confederate tattoo. The white patron is a regular, and the staff have come to terms with his implied racism. Black group gets concerned that he's talking about them behind their back/to his friends/something like that. They complain to the restaurant staff. The staff suggests they move tables if proximity to the white patron is making them feel uncomfortable. The end.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:31 AM   #136
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,638
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Can anyone here explain to my why Hitchen's razor wouldn't apply here? Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The assertion is a picture of an alleged conversation between two unidentified people?

There is zero evidence that this conversation ever occurred, or if any of the people having it have any real information about the incident. Faking a text screenshot is trivially easy.
So is faking a racial grievance.

And getting a corporation that serves the public to quickly cave on such grievances is getting easier all the time. In part because people are so willing to believe the claim of grievance, and condemn the corporation a priori.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:31 AM   #137
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,852
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Can anyone here explain to my why Hitchen's razor wouldn't apply here? Assertions without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. The assertion is a picture of an alleged conversation between two unidentified people?

There is zero evidence that this conversation ever occurred, or if any of the people having it have any real information about the incident. Faking a text screenshot is trivially easy.

Am I taking crazy pills?
It is preliminary evidence. It needs to be verified, then evaluated for credibility. You are trying to chuck it before the verification.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:33 AM   #138
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
So is faking a racial grievance.

And getting a corporation that serves the public to quickly cave on such grievances is getting easier all the time. In part because people are so willing to believe the claim of grievance, and condemn the corporation a priori.
Sure, the whole story could be fake. Testimony, such as that given by the alleged victims, is evidence. Weak evidence, but evidence none the less.

So far, there is zero evidence supporting any other narrative of events. No one has contested it, except for a facebook comment that is essentially anonymous.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:42 AM   #139
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,925
What I see is a narrative of an incident that has not been disputed by any of the participants (on both sides of the accusation) and that is supported by the actions of a major corporation. Opposing this I see purely hypothetical criticisms made up out of whole cloth by posters based entirely on their wish to not believe this narrative.

I agree that it will be informative as/if more details are revealed and I even leave open the possibility that aspects of the current narrative will prove inaccurate, perhaps even significant ones. This is always possible and there are odd aspects of the case. However when comparing the likelihood of the narrative being mostly true, versus purely hypothetical counter arguments based on a visceral desire to not believe it, skepticism favors the former.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:45 AM   #140
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 7,128
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It isn't visible without signing into FB. Comments don't appear on facebook posts without signing in. It was right in my post, you just had to read it.
You asked;

Quote:
How did bluesnjr even find this pic?
I answered.
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:45 AM   #141
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,852
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sure, the whole story could be fake. Testimony, such as that given by the alleged victims, is evidence. Weak evidence, but evidence none the less.

So far, there is zero evidence supporting any other narrative of events. No one has contested it, except for a facebook comment that is essentially anonymous.
Not anonymous. Her name is Connie Hall. Just not verified yet.

And the actual claimants can be viewed as biased, having a financial benefit to gain. Is it unreasonable to hold their claims to a high standard?
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:48 AM   #142
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It is preliminary evidence. It needs to be verified, then evaluated for credibility. You are trying to chuck it before the verification.
My comment about you committing 9/11 is as substantial. A screengrab of an alleged conversation between anonymous individuals that contains an accusation. It's unverifiable unless someone involved provides more information, and there is really no way for us to make them do so. Why should any consideration be given to such things?
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:55 AM   #143
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,852
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
What I see is a narrative of an incident that has not been disputed by any of the participants (on both sides of the accusation) and that is supported by the actions of a major corporation. Opposing this I see purely hypothetical criticisms made up out of whole cloth by posters based entirely on their wish to not believe this narrative.

I agree that it will be informative as/if more details are revealed and I even leave open the possibility that aspects of the current narrative will prove inaccurate, perhaps even significant ones. This is always possible and there are odd aspects of the case. However when comparing the likelihood of the narrative being mostly true, versus purely hypothetical counter arguments based on a visceral desire to not believe it, skepticism favors the former.
This is highly biased projection. Some of us are extremely critical of people hustling a shakedown.

I have said from the start that these were likely racistregulars, and some kind of incident took place. What is being criticized is what exactly happened and who is actually responsible for what.

Play fair.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 11:57 AM   #144
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not anonymous. Her name is Connie Hall. Just not verified yet.

And the actual claimants can be viewed as biased, having a financial benefit to gain. Is it unreasonable to hold their claims to a high standard?

Sure, this could absolutely be a scam, either for financial gain or for some other reason. We should be on high alert for such things, perhaps be more skeptical than usual.

As of yet, there is no evidence that their account is false. Seeing as no one is disputing their narrative, their will likely never be a vigorous investigation. There is a good chance that this is the end of the story and that we won't find out more.

Given that, wouldn't you agree that the narrative, as presented, is the most plausible version of the truth?
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 12:03 PM   #145
AJM8125
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
 
AJM8125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,865
Has video of this incident surfaced yet? I find it hard to believe that nobody in a party of 18, let alone an entire restaurant, had the presence of mind to make a recording. Something like that would go a long way to changing my opinion. Take the case of Jermaine Massey, who was thrown out his hotel room by racist staff. He documented that incident and it was clearly obvious he was terribly wronged.
__________________


The better you get, the harder you work.
AJM8125 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 12:05 PM   #146
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,852
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
My comment about you committing 9/11 is as substantial. A screengrab of an alleged conversation between anonymous individuals that contains an accusation. It's unverifiable unless someone involved provides more information, and there is really no way for us to make them do so. Why should any consideration be given to such things?
The real screenshot has a full name and the speaker writes as a worker at this restaurant. It should be a short trip for someone to verify if she works there. So as I said, we have to vet this out. You seek to get it off the table pronto. To paraphrase your earlier post, I am deeply suspicious of that motivation.

Last edited by Thermal; 12th November 2019 at 12:11 PM.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 12:10 PM   #147
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,852
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sure, this could absolutely be a scam, either for financial gain or for some other reason. We should be on high alert for such things, perhaps be more skeptical than usual.

As of yet, there is no evidence that their account is false. Seeing as no one is disputing their narrative, their will likely never be a vigorous investigation. There is a good chance that this is the end of the story and that we won't find out more.

Given that, wouldn't you agree that the narrative, as presented, is the most plausible version of the truth?
Because of the claimants expressed payoff interests, no, I don't agree. If this was a story without a lawyer talking about how a good corporate citizen would resolve this prior to lawsuit, I would surely agree with you

I don't doubt the regulars were racist and some kind of incident happened. But once the payoff hand sticks out, no one's word is unbiased or neutral. IMO, anyway.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 12:13 PM   #148
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,638
Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Has video of this incident surfaced yet? I find it hard to believe that nobody in a party of 18, let alone an entire restaurant, had the presence of mind to make a recording. Something like that would go a long way to changing my opinion. Take the case of Jermaine Massey, who was thrown out his hotel room by racist staff. He documented that incident and it was clearly obvious he was terribly wronged.
They were probably relying on a nearby police camera to properly film the encounter.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 12:52 PM   #149
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The real screenshot has a full name and the speaker writes as a worker at this restaurant. It should be a short trip for someone to verify if she works there. So as I said, we have to vet this out. You seek to get it off the table pronto. To paraphrase your earlier post, I am deeply suspicious of that motivation.
You'd have to verify
1) if such a person exists
2) if they were actually there to witness the events
3) if they ever sent this text (this one seems suspect to me, as faking texts is trivially easy. how do we have this private conversation but no other information)
4) whether the account is truthful

Basically, the text is worthless as evidence. Talking to the person who allegedly sent it would be worthwhile, if they exist and are willing to make such a claim.

Yes, I "seek to get it off the table pronto" because it is has so many shortcomings as evidence it's not worth consideration. A picture of a text of third parties is the equivalent of a rumor.

Thermal, do you generally consider offhand, unsourced remarks from the comment sections of news stories worthwhile sources of information? My experience with the internet is that it is almost always complete garbage and lies. You could spend a lifetime chasing after unsourced BS that fox news grandpas post and not even cover 1% of the bogus crap that people spew in the comments section.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 12th November 2019 at 12:59 PM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 12:56 PM   #150
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 7,155
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
If only I had told you in my post where I'd seen this.......

Sometimes I despair.

It's in the link that someone else posted referencing the Facebook post. It's right ******* there... scroll down.
You want me to scroll down through 6,300 comments to find this one?
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 01:19 PM   #151
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,852
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
You'd have to verify
1) if such a person exists
2) if they were actually there to witness the events
3) if they ever sent this text (this one seems suspect to me, as faking texts is trivially easy. how do we have this private conversation but no other information)
4) whether the account is truthful

Basically, the text is worthless as evidence. Talking to the person who allegedly sent it would be worthwhile, if they exist and are willing to make such a claim.

Yes, I "seek to get it off the table pronto" because it is has so many shortcomings as evidence it's not worth consideration. A picture of a text of third parties is the equivalent of a rumor.

Thermal, do you generally consider offhand, unsourced remarks from the comment sections of news stories worthwhile sources of information? My experience with the internet is that it is almost always complete garbage and lies. You could spend a lifetime chasing after unsourced BS that fox news grandpas post and not even cover 1% of the bogus crap that people spew in the comments section.
Certainly not, but I would take this screenshot of a text convo more seriously. It has a name attached, and presumably where she works. This leads to very quick verification/dismissal. From there, the author seems to have no skin in the game, other than to say what she saw. She acknowledged that one the regulars had a confederate flag tattoo, so it doesn't seem she is trying to vilify or deity either party.

Random comments mean nothing to me. Possible independent witnesses interest me a lot. But as I say, they need to be verified first.

Btw, if she used a fictitious screen name and claimed that the team walked in cursing white people out, I would dismiss that out of hand. The real name and workplace, that we can prove or disprove, gives me fair pause.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 01:22 PM   #152
Giordano
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,925
People who have been ill treated often seek some form of revenge and that often manifests in the USA as a law suit. Many more times that not it is not a scam. And the idea to sue almost always comes after the event - it is not a motivation to create the event. In these instances that make the news it is not unusual that a lawyer contacts the victim and is the person who first brings up the idea of suing.
Giordano is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 01:24 PM   #153
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 7,128
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
You want me to scroll down through 6,300 comments to find this one?
Or you could scroll down a whole 3 comments from where Puppycows link lands.

Or you could follow my earlier link which isolates the post.

I literally could not have made it easier for everybody yet "Where did you find this?" and "you expect me to......." abounds.

I despair.
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 01:55 PM   #154
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,299
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Certainly not, but I would take this screenshot of a text convo more seriously. It has a name attached, and presumably where she works. This leads to very quick verification/dismissal. From there, the author seems to have no skin in the game, other than to say what she saw. She acknowledged that one the regulars had a confederate flag tattoo, so it doesn't seem she is trying to vilify or deity either party.

Random comments mean nothing to me. Possible independent witnesses interest me a lot. But as I say, they need to be verified first.

Btw, if she used a fictitious screen name and claimed that the team walked in cursing white people out, I would dismiss that out of hand. The real name and workplace, that we can prove or disprove, gives me fair pause.
Who's gonna look into this? Nobody involved has come forth to dispute the narrative as given. As far as I can tell, no one is investigating this.

This is just gonna float around so those motivated to believe a certain way can claim it's all a big scam.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 02:24 PM   #155
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,507
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Black group sits down near a white patron who has a Confederate tattoo. The white patron is a regular, and the staff have come to terms with his implied racism. Black group gets concerned that he's talking about them behind their back/to his friends/something like that. They complain to the restaurant staff. The staff suggests they move tables if proximity to the white patron is making them feel uncomfortable. The end.
Thanks.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 04:29 PM   #156
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 7,155
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Or you could scroll down a whole 3 comments from where Puppycows link lands.
Puppycow's link lands here:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

As you can see, there are 3,636 comments.
Quote:

Or you could follow my earlier link which isolates the post.

I literally could not have made it easier for everybody yet "Where did you find this?" and "you expect me to......." abounds.

I despair.
Your link isolates the post, so all we see is a screenshot of someone's phone with no other context.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 04:49 PM   #157
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,084
Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Is it odd that he's silent? Seems the plaintiffs have no interest in him. Or anyone else involved. They only seem interested in the 'corporate citizen' with the deep pockets.
If you had been banned from a restaurant that you were a frequent customer of, and all others in that chain, over something you didn't do, would you stay quiet and not make a fuss?
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 04:53 PM   #158
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,638
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
If you had been banned from a restaurant that you were a frequent customer of, and all others in that chain, over something you didn't do, would you stay quiet and not make a fuss?
Who banned him? Corporate, that wasn't even there? The staff that got fired by corporate after the "thorough investigation"?

If this guy walks in tomorrow, will anyone now in charge even know who he is?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 05:08 PM   #159
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,084
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Who banned him? Corporate, that wasn't even there? The staff that got fired by corporate after the "thorough investigation"?

If this guy walks in tomorrow, will anyone now in charge even know who he is?
From one of the articles it seemed that they were working with the Police to determine the best method, which is likely Trespassing him from all of their sites. One also would assume that they have methods of letting their employee know who are barred customers, since barring customers is a reasonably common practice.

Either way, it's been reported multiple times that he has been banned from all of their restaurants, so the question still remains, if he did nothing wrong to deserve banning, why hasn't he done something to oppose the banning? Working on the principle of "they won't know who I am" is a pretty risky one.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th November 2019, 05:13 PM   #160
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,911
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Black group sits down near a white patron who has a Confederate tattoo. The white patron is a regular, and the staff have come to terms with his implied racism. Black group gets concerned that he's talking about them behind their back/to his friends/something like that. They complain to the restaurant staff. The staff suggests they move tables if proximity to the white patron is making them feel uncomfortable. The end.

I'm a realist, so I fully understand that it is probably never going to be possible to entirely eradicate racism. However, your plan to work around, and to make allowances for racists is not going to help.

I guess since you are a Trump supporter/enabler, you've gotten probably used to this technique in your efforts to make excuses for your president. I don't find this acceptable - IMO, racism should not be ignored, it should be confronted head on, and racists need to be made to feel very uncomfortable about their racism.
__________________
"You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:27 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.