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Old 28th September 2016, 09:12 AM   #201
Oystein
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There was a promise - coming together with the first call for donations, and still online - that every step of the research project would be made transparently public on the projects website, so that anyone could follow the scientific progress.

No such publication has been made available at all.
This is breaking a promise.

I wish Criteria would comment on this promise, and Hulsey's and AE911T's abject failure to live up to it.
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Old 28th September 2016, 09:15 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
This repeated question is nothing more than an unreasonable and anonymous demand for unfettered data; the raw, unedited work of Dr. Hulsey and his team.
He has already announced conclusions derived from this data. The promise made was for continuing updates on the work in progress.
So to say that this is raw unedited data is belied by the fact of the conclusions already announced. The almost complete ignoring of the openness promise made puts the lie to that promise.

Quote:
It sews mistrust with no justification, and no acknowledgement of the professional and academic qualifications of Dr. Hulsey and his team. In particular, as a forensic structural engineer and professor, Dr. Hulsey has excellent credentials for an investigation such as this. I am sure he does not want to be remembered for a paper about a highly controversial subject that failed the rigours of peer review.
So this will never go to peer review then?

Quote:
Do you honestly believe that companies do not fund research projects in partnership with universities?
?? Sorry, where does that even come from? Did someone say anything that resulted in this question? I missed it.

Quote:
Are we to reject as untrustworthy, any research performed by accredited scientists working in association with companies and/or organizations that have a vested interest in their findings?
Wow, odd words coming from someone who does exactly that wrt the NIST reports.
Irony meter 'asplodes!

A reminder then for the benefit of Criteria:
Quote:
Transparency and Public Participation

Unlike NIST, which has refused to release all of its modeling data based on the untenable excuse that doing so “might jeopardize public safety,” UAF and AE911Truth will make this study completely open and transparent.

Soon, we will begin posting the process on the website WTC7Evaluation.org, where members of the architecture and engineering communities, as well as the general public, can follow and scrutinize the research as it is being conducted.

Today, we’re giving you a sneak peek by inviting you to be the first to watch the official WTC 7 Evaluation Introduction Video. This video will be featured at the top of the forthcoming website WTC7Evaluation.org to introduce visitors to Dr. Hulsey and the goals of the UAF study.

By making the study open and transparent throughout the entire process, we expect it to attract widespread attention from the engineering community and the broader public, while also enabling interested observers to provide input and feedback. To that end, we enthusiastically invite you to register to become a participant in the study. Dr. Hulsey and the review committee vetting his research greatly welcome your help.

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Old 28th September 2016, 09:21 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
There was a promise - coming together with the first call for donations, and still online - that every step of the research project would be made transparently public on the projects website, so that anyone could follow the scientific progress.

No such publication has been made available at all.
This is breaking a promise.

I wish Criteria would comment on this promise, and Hulsey's and AE911T's abject failure to live up to it.
He won't. He will skirt around it, ignore it, or change the subject. It's just too embarrassing to admit that a promise made has quite obviously not been kept and that the promised openness is at a stage now that makes NIST's reporting look the pinnacle of an open and public reporting.
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Old 28th September 2016, 09:23 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
He has already announced conclusions derived from this data. The promise made was for continuing updates on the work in progress.
So to say that this is raw unedited data is belied by the fact of the conclusions already announced. The almost complete ignoring of the openness promise made puts the lie to that promise.


So this will never go to peer review then?



?? Sorry, where does that even come from? Did someone say anything that resulted in this question? I missed it.



Wow, odd words coming from someone who does exactly that wrt the NIST reports.
Irony meter 'asplodes!

A reminder then for the benefit of Criteria:
He'll, they won't even give sample calculations to show that they know about M(C)/I and P/A, and in the only thing close to that ,Tony had the yield strength of A36 steel at 70000psi...
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Old 28th September 2016, 10:49 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
This repeated question is nothing more than an unreasonable and anonymous demand for unfettered data; the raw, unedited work of Dr. Hulsey and his team.
No, it's asking for exactly what they promised-transparency. If you're going to claim with 100% certainty that something happened, you better man up and present the proof and be willing to accept the criticism. Otherwise, you shouldn't be leading an investigation like this.

It sews mistrust with no justification, and no acknowledgement of the professional and academic qualifications of Dr. Hulsey and his team. In particular, as a forensic structural engineer and professor, Dr. Hulsey has excellent credentials for an investigation such as this.
So does releasing a conclusion without a full report of any and all experiments. As my dad used to say "don't write checks you can't cash". If you aren't willing to be 100% transparent, don't promise people you're going to be.

I am sure he does not want to be remembered for a paper about a highly controversial subject that failed the rigours of peer review.
Then he shouldn't be investigating this. If he isn't willing to go through the process, then he should never have started it in the first place.

Do you honestly believe that companies do not fund research projects in partnership with universities?
What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

Are we to reject as untrustworthy, any research performed by accredited scientists working in association with companies and/or organizations that have a vested interest in their findings?
If they prove to be biased? Yes. Hulsey has proven to be unreliable as he has come to a conclusion without releasing his data.
I still don't get what your argument here is. If he isn't done with his report, then he shouldn't announced his conclusions. If he doesn't want to be subject to peer review, then he shouldn't be in this business.
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Old 28th September 2016, 11:11 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I'm a little curious, by the way, as to the origin of Dr. Hulsey's claim to be a "forensic structural engineer." ...
Dave
Interesting point, but regardless of his résumé, Hulsey is obviously no Sherlock Holmes: He is on a fool's errand to try to prove CD by disproving NIST's column 79 hypothesis. He hasn't yet demonstrated that his analysis is actually credible, but the pathetic fatal error in his "logic" is, of course, the uncountable other ways that fire could have caused the collapse. Criteria is simply protecting his delusions by being obtuse; the debate doesn't need to devolve to arguing about Hulsey's qualifications. When his conclusions are so clearly irrational, Hulsey disqualifies himself.
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Old 28th September 2016, 11:43 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Criteria is simply protecting his delusions by being obtuse; the debate doesn't need to devolve to arguing about Hulsey's qualifications. When his conclusions are so clearly irrational, Hulsey disqualifies himself.
Clearly so; Hulsey's claim to have proved a negative is quite absurd. But it's interesting, in the light of the classic truth movement phenomenon of expertise inflation, that I can't find any evidence of forensic work prior to his taking on the AE911T commission and declaring himself a forensic structural engineer. I may be mistaken, in which case I'd be grateful to Criteria for putting me right with some information on his prior forensic work.

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Old 28th September 2016, 05:18 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
This repeated question is nothing more than an unreasonable and anonymous demand for unfettered data; the raw, unedited work of Dr. Hulsey and his team.

It sews mistrust with no justification, and no acknowledgement of the professional and academic qualifications of Dr. Hulsey and his team. In particular, as a forensic structural engineer and professor, Dr. Hulsey has excellent credentials for an investigation such as this. I am sure he does not want to be remembered for a paper about a highly controversial subject that failed the rigours of peer review.

Do you honestly believe that companies do not fund research projects in partnership with universities?

Are we to reject as untrustworthy, any research performed by accredited scientists working in association with companies and/or organizations that have a vested interest in their findings?
The problem is, Husley and his staff have not worked on this study since November of 2015, and has not produced a working model of WTC 7. So when he says "fires could not have brought down WTC 7", he is lying.
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Old 28th September 2016, 05:20 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
The problem is, Husley and his staff have not worked on this study since November of 2015, ...
How do you know? Can you back up that claim with evidence?
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Old 28th September 2016, 05:23 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
The problem is, Husley and his staff have not worked on this study since November of 2015, and has not produced a working model of WTC 7. So when he says "fires could not have brought down WTC 7", he is lying.

Dr. Husley is in a partnership with AE911Truth, a discredited organization which is led by Richard Gage, who has been caught lying time after time on video.
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Old 28th September 2016, 05:26 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
How do you know? Can you back up that claim with evidence?
I downloaded all his research, the staff logs end in November of 2015. No work is done after that date. And there is no working model on the site, even though they have a folder for it.
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Old 28th September 2016, 05:41 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
I downloaded all his research, the staff logs end in November of 2015. No work is done after that date. And there is no working model on the site, even though they have a folder for it.
You mean no work is documented after that date.
That doesn't mean none was done, does it?
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Old 28th September 2016, 05:49 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
You mean no work is documented after that date.
That doesn't mean none was done, does it?
Possibly, but it would be completely undocumented. One note, the last post talked about a hard drive crash, losing data, and the computer tech's trying to fix the problem. Nothing after than...
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Old 28th September 2016, 06:35 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
Possibly, but it would be completely undocumented. One note, the last post talked about a hard drive crash, losing data, and the computer tech's trying to fix the problem. Nothing after than...
Right.
We can and must lament the lack of documentation that was clearly promised as an ongoing task.
You can only guess that no work was done.
I would guess that some work was done - what Hulsey presented recently talks of them having modeled (almost) all floors. I believe this is much more than they had documented by November. Also, he says they ran fire scenarios on those models, again that's more than they had documented by November, I think. Correct me if I am wrong. I do not suppose that Hulsey invented these additions out of nothing.
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Old 19th November 2016, 03:55 PM   #215
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Here's a new video from Hulsey addressing a group of engineers in Alaska: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKN4...&feature=share

This guy is a joke. He is asked directly about the floor collapses in the NIST hypothesis and admits he has not even yet finished his analyses on those portions of the collapse scenario! What a stark contrast to his previously touted conclusion that fire could not have caused the collapse!

He is also asked about litigations and plays ignorant about getting documents related to them. I personally emailed him the Aegis Insurance case reports many months ago! How can he pretend such materials are being withheld from him? He's being a pure snake in the grass. Look at how he talks in circles re materials from the Port Authority. He wants to make it sound like they aren't cooperating with him, but, if you listen real close, its obvious he never even requested materials from them.

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Old 20th November 2016, 02:35 AM   #216
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He had to invite them to meals to be listened?
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Old 20th November 2016, 03:51 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
Here's a new video from Hulsey addressing a group of engineers in Alaska: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKN4...&feature=share

This guy is a joke. He is asked directly about the floor collapses in the NIST hypothesis and admits he has not even yet finished his analyses on those portions of the collapse scenario! What a stark contrast to his previously touted conclusion that fire could not have caused the collapse!

He is also asked about litigations and plays ignorant about getting documents related to them. I personally emailed him the Aegis Insurance case reports many months ago! How can he pretend such materials are being withheld from him? He's being a pure snake in the grass. Look at how he talks in circles re materials from the Port Authority. He wants to make it sound like they aren't cooperating with him, but, if you listen real close, its obvious he never even requested materials from them.

Well he did debunk Tony S. The dumb Ceiling tile Ideas.
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Old 20th November 2016, 04:59 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
Here's a new video from Hulsey addressing a group of engineers in Alaska: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKN4...&feature=share
Damned!
I am not even 1/4 through a talk he gave to UAF engineering students, where I am taking screenshots and taking notes to comment on what he says. Dealing with YT stuff is so terribly time consuming, I wish they would post the presentations online, you know, the slides and the words!

Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
This guy is a joke. He is asked directly about the floor collapses in the NIST hypothesis and admits he has not even yet finished his analyses on those portions of the collapse scenario!
In his previous talks, he conflated different NIST models: The partial, 16-story ANSYS model that found the girder walk-off with the 47-story LS-DYNA model done to visualize the collapse progression, and claims that the collapse model only has the eastern part fexible, and the central and western part connections infinitely stiff, and that that is why there is so much more happening in the east core.

[ETA]The part im the latest presentation where he commits this blunder is from 15:28 minutes (limited ANSYS model) to 21:00, with the presentation of the full dynamic collapse starting at 18:25, and the conflation occurring at 19:31.[/ETA]

In other word, Hulsey has not yet understood, perhaps not even read, just the Executive Summary.

Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
... if you listen real close, its obvious he never even requested materials from them.
Another almost 1 hour of boring talk to listen to... *yikes*
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Old 20th November 2016, 09:52 AM   #219
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This was destined to be a train wreck... embarrassment... just based on the resources and staffing of the investigators alone. It's amazing that it's held up as some sort of proof of anything... blind leading and blind following the blind.
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Old 13th April 2017, 10:15 PM   #220
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Hulsey is saying the final report is coming this coming August. This should be interesting...
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Old 15th April 2017, 03:06 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
Hulsey is saying the final report is coming this coming August. This should be interesting...
Interesting? Why? No. We know the conclusion already:
Originally Posted by Criteria in September 2016 View Post
ZERO chance that the fires caused the collapse of WTC7!
No actual study, no work was needed for Hulsey to know the conclusion his money-source demands.
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Old 15th April 2017, 06:25 AM   #222
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Here is the AE911Truth email sent yesterday:
http://us1.campaign-archive1.com/?e=[UNIQID]&u=d03bf3ffcac549c7dc7888ef5&id=799a597adc

Interestingly, it mentions more than just the NIST report:
Originally Posted by AE911T
Unlike the studies conducted by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) and by firms working on behalf of Silverstein Properties and Con Edison, all of the data associated with the UAF study will be made public so that it can fully be scrutinized.

Even more interesting, they present the central piece of illogical logic in Hulsey's thinking so far:
Originally Posted by AE911T
Before this stage, the team was evaluating the effects of fire on the structural members of Floor 13 near Column 79, where the collapse of WTC 7 is alleged to have initiated. The results of that analysis led Dr. Hulsey’s team to conclude in no uncertain terms that fires could not have triggered a global progressive collapse.
The logic here is supposed to be: "If failure of element A could not happen to result in progressive failure, then no other failure in any other element could". This is very obviously wrong.


They promised to keep the public informed on the technical progress of the project. How do they do this? Academic outlets? No.
AE911Truth's own propaganda channel.
Originally Posted by AE911T
For a full status update, we invite you to listen to Dr. Hulsey and AE911Truth’s Ted Walter discuss the project on yesterday’s episode of 9/11 Free Fall.
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Old 15th April 2017, 11:33 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
Dr. Hulsey, PHD., SE, Chairman, Dept. of Civil Engineering University of Alaska brings his knowledge and experience as both a structural engineer and a forensic structural engineer to this research.
In my experience, CEs mostly know dirt and rock, and what happens when you put something on them. Dirt is especially treacherous and requires an expert, but what happens upstairs requires a different skill set.

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Are you an engineer? I am an engineer, and your statement is BS. A claim based on bias, paranoia, and gullibility. What engineering school did you go to? Most engineers understand fire and steel, and 9/11 truth has what appears to be a subset of the insane, complacent, or nutcase engineers; with less than 0.1 percent of all engineer.

It only takes a grade school education to know CD is a fantasy born in ignorance. Does the, http://cem.uaf.edu/ , college of engineering know the CD head, http://cem.uaf.edu/cee/people/leroy-hulsey.aspx , is a CT BS artist.
I'm a draftsman. At best, a designer, but I spent decades with "engineer" as my job title. When I started a magazine study showed that nearly 10% of engineers lacked even a high school diploma, so my expectations regarding my peers is not high. However, in junior high the guy remodeling our basement told me the steel girder supporting the upper floor would, in a fire, fail long before a similarly sized wooden beam. He was a carpenter. I was a kid, and I could instantly understand the process he described. Why is it so hard for others?
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Old 15th April 2017, 12:05 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by dropzone View Post
In my experience, CEs mostly know dirt and rock, and what happens when you put something on them. Dirt is especially treacherous and requires an expert, but what happens upstairs requires a different skill set.

I'm a draftsman. At best, a designer, but I spent decades with "engineer" as my job title. When I started a magazine study showed that nearly 10% of engineers lacked even a high school diploma, so my expectations regarding my peers is not high. However, in junior high the guy remodeling our basement told me the steel girder supporting the upper floor would, in a fire, fail long before a similarly sized wooden beam. He was a carpenter. I was a kid, and I could instantly understand the process he described. Why is it so hard for others?
Hulsey proves engineers can be CT nuts. Any layperson with knowledge can beat Hulsey, or an engineer.

Yep, steel fails in fire.
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Old 15th April 2017, 12:13 PM   #225
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I haven't read any of this thread. Gonna guess that this was the one that proved Bush or the Jews or a hurricane-powered energy gun did it.

Too bad, I really thought NIST knew what they were talking about.
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Old 17th April 2017, 08:25 AM   #226
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Over at metabunk, I posted two decently detailed overviews of the evolution of this project based on Hulsey's public comments. You can find them in the same thread here and here, respectively.

I think anyone who expects this study to resolve anything is going to be gravely disappointed. It's devolved into merely a study of certain aspect's of NIST's hypothesis and it's already clear that Hulsey's public statements to date re the scope of its conclusions are bias-motivated bunk that are unsupported by the work his team actually accomplished to date. Hulsey no longer talks about having the study peer reviewed in a respected journal; instead, they are going to make up their own "peer review panel" process so they can lie about the acceptability and soundness of their work to their gullible supporters.

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Old 22nd May 2017, 10:25 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Firefighters reported one elevator car out of it's shaft. That indicates core damage or at least movement.
The displaced elevator car is consistent with internal pre-weakeing demolitions, such as those used to cut the stairwells that Hess encountered.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 12:53 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
The displaced elevator car is consistent with internal pre-weakeing demolitions, such as those used to cut the stairwells that Hess encountered.
So you say.
Firstly, what is your timeline on this? At what point were these "pre-weakening demolitions" set off? What explosive was used, and what evidence do you have for either of these points?
Secondly, how did you determine that the lifts were displaced prior to the general collapse of the building, and not during it?
Finally, do you have any exampes of other buildings demolished in this way, so as to provide a point of reference for this "consistency" you claim?
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Old 23rd May 2017, 01:51 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
The displaced elevator car is consistent with internal pre-weakeing demolitions, such as those used to cut the stairwells that Hess encountered.
No it isn't.

See, I can make unsupported assertions too.

Dave
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
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Old 23rd May 2017, 07:06 AM   #230
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CD, the lie that without evidence - 9/11 truth core lie

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
The displaced elevator car is consistent with internal pre-weakeing demolitions, such as those used to cut the stairwells that Hess encountered.
The old CD dumbed down inside job fantasy card is being played again. True failure

Part of the WTC tower damaged the stairwell where Hess was. 9/11 truth has no clue if Hess experienced an explosives cutting the stairs, his brain would be mush. CD a failed fantasy of 9/11 truth. 9-11 truth a fake movement based on paranoid, a liars-r-us club for the fringe few who can't, or refuse to think for themselves. Don't join the liars club, 9/11 truth, they have eternal failure locked up.

Hulsey is a paranoid 9/11 truth CD guy, who will lie to make the CD fantasy dumber for 9/11 truth cult members who can't do science. What are the odds he is a JFK nut too. Is Bigfoot far behind, or moon landing denial. You should take your posts to the loose change clubhouse forum for idiotic 9/11 truth claims, where the mod JFK will help you out with your failed 9/11 truth claims. You will be in a place where your lack of evidence is expected, and overlooked.

Did you make up the pre-weakened displaced elevator claim? Got some engineering or science to go with that BS. No

Hess did not encounter demolition.

Speculation and lies, the 9/11 truth method of woo. 3 lies in one sentence, efficient woo.
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Last edited by beachnut; 23rd May 2017 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2017, 11:54 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
The displaced elevator car is consistent with internal pre-weakeing demolitions, such as those used to cut the stairwells that Hess encountered.
The displaced elevator car is consistent with platoons of evil, see-sawing midgets, such as those used to cut the stairwells that Hess encountered.

The displaced elevator car is consistent with gene-modified, steel-eating termites, such as those used to cut the stairwells that Hess encountered.

The possibilities are numberless.

The evidence is zero.
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Old 24th May 2017, 09:09 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Clemson 74, AFIT 82, engineering and masters in engineering.
It saddens me that experts would work so hard to prevent truth and justice for our nation.

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Old 24th May 2017, 09:15 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
... Clemson 74, AFIT 82, engineering and masters in engineering. ...
Did they teach you it was okay to commit treason if the SecDef declared war on his own Country?

Just curious....
Using BS to support lies? What does the SecDef have to do with Hulsey's paranoid fantasy world and failed belief in the fantasy of CD. Why does Hulsey lie about 9/11, and why do you believe the evidence free lies/claims.

SecDef did not declare war on his own country, Hulsey and the Boston bombers believe lies made up about 9/11. Do you believe claims with no evidence too.

What does 9/11 truth's followers lack of engineering knowledge have to do with the SecDef and your fantasy conspiracy?

Did they teach you to believe in lies and paranoid conspiracy theories? What engineering school was that?

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
... Clemson 74, AFIT 82, engineering and masters in engineering. ...
It saddens me that experts would work so hard to prevent truth and justice for our nation.
Yes, Hulsey lies about 9/11, and as an "expert" in 9/11 truth, it is sad he lies and misleads those who don't understand fire, science, engineering and physics. Hulsey failed to prevent truth, 19 terrorists did 9/11, Hulsey has no clue.

You and Hulsey are restoring American honor by spreading lies.
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Last edited by beachnut; 24th May 2017 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 25th May 2017, 01:19 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
The displaced elevator car is consistent with internal pre-weakeing demolitions, such as those used to cut the stairwells that Hess encountered.
Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
So you say.
Firstly, what is your timeline on this? At what point were these "pre-weakening demolitions" set off? What explosive was used, and what evidence do you have for either of these points?
Secondly, how did you determine that the lifts were displaced prior to the general collapse of the building, and not during it?
Finally, do you have any exampes of other buildings demolished in this way, so as to provide a point of reference for this "consistency" you claim?
Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
It saddens me that experts would work so hard to prevent truth and justice for our nation.
Once you have dried your eyes, perhaps you could cite your own experts/ expertise and answer my questions. It would serve your case much better than vague and insincere expressions of sadness.
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Old 30th May 2017, 07:57 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
The displaced elevator car is consistent with internal pre-weakeing demolitions, such as those used to cut the stairwells that Hess encountered.
So these preweakening charges went off when?

Oh, I know, at the same time the debris from WTC1 hit WTC7,,, right?
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Old 31st May 2017, 12:53 AM   #236
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See my post above yours.
Still waiting for answers....
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