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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:25 PM   #201
Old coarse guy
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Why?
Because I presume that Shyam Sunder didn't just pick the number out of the air when he said over 15 storeys, then again, NIST are well known for picking numbers out of the air, so who knows.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:25 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Why?
Don't you feel a need to know details when making a determination?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:26 PM   #203
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Exactly Tony, yes.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:27 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
Because I presume that Shyam Sunder didn't just pick the number out of the air when he said over 15 storeys, then again, NIST are well known for picking numbers out of the air, so who knows.
I'm not seeing your point. Does it matter if the building was 14 floors as apposed to 17?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:28 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I'm not seeing your point. Does it matter if the building was 14 floors as apposed to 17?
Apparently to NIST and Shyam Sunder, it does. Yes.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:29 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Don't you feel a need to know details when making a determination?
In the definition of a "highrise" in this context? Yes.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:30 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
In the definition of a "highrise" in this context? Yes.
Sorry to butt in DGM, but do you consider this building to be a high rise, in so far as NIST defined the term ?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:31 PM   #208
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lol. that is one stretch of a strawman.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:31 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Don't you feel a need to know details when making a determination?
Focusing on details while missing the big picture is the core and foundation of the failure that your past eight years have been.

DGM's question "why" is spot on: Why would Old Coarse Guy need the number of storeys, rather than the number of windows, thickness of walls, color of carpets or chirality of stairs?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:32 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
Apparently to NIST and Shyam Sunder, it does. Yes.
So it"s OK for a building below 14 floors to collapse due to fire because it's not a "highrise"? Above that it can't happen?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:33 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
lol. that is one stretch of a strawman.
NOt at all. Shyam Sunder clearly stated that the collapse of a high rise was unprecedented and defined that as over 15 storeys. Seems pretty clear to me.
So is this building a high rise or not, in terms of NIST's definition ?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:34 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
In a sense it does yes. Shyam Sunder made a statement that no high rise had ever fallen etc etc. He went on to mention that this classification was for buildings of over 15 storeys if my memory serves correctly.
Perhaps you should verify this first.

If my memory serves correctly, you are mistaken.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:36 PM   #213
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Quote:
The Plasco Building (Persian: ساختمان پلاسکو‎‎, Sakhteman-e Pelasko) was a 17-story high-rise building in Tehran, the capital city of Iran.
At the time of its construction in the 1960s it was the tallest building in Iran,[1] and was considered an iconic landmark of the Tehran skyline.[2] The building collapsed on 19 January 2017 during a fire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasco_Building
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:36 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
NOt at all. Shyam Sunder clearly stated that the collapse of a high rise was unprecedented and defined that as over 15 storeys. Seems pretty clear to me.
So is this building a high rise or not, in terms of NIST's definition ?
So what?
If this is a highrise according to Sunder's alleged definition (which you pulled out of the blue sky, I believe), then his alleged statement remains true: the WTC events are unprecedented as highrise collapses. Has a little something to do with the meaning of the word "precedent". Do you know what the prefix "pre-" means?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:36 PM   #215
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Sniff, sniff
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:37 PM   #216
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It was 17 stories and 42 meters high
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:39 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Don't you feel a need to know details when making a determination?
Tony, really?

Even for you this is lame and obviously hypocritical
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Last edited by DGM; 22nd January 2017 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:43 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Perhaps you should verify this first.

If my memory serves correctly, you are mistaken.
I may be old and coarse, but my memory is apparently still ok.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IkiLxdn-5Q
@32s Shyam Sunder says "this is the first time that we are aware of that a building over seven....fifteen storeys tall, has collapsed primarily due to fire."
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:44 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
I may be old and coarse, but my memory is apparently still ok.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IkiLxdn-5Q
@32s Shyam Sunder says "this is the first time that we are aware of that a building over seven....fifteen storeys tall, has collapsed primarily due to fire."
..........and? (leading to my question of why)
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:44 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It was 17 stories and 42 meters high
8.1ft doesn't seem very high for a storey does it ?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:45 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Tony, really?

Even for you this is lame and obviously hypocritical
I looked at various articles and some said 17 stories and others 15. When counting the stories above ground in photos it is 15.

The story height is important and if 42 meters (137.76 feet) is right then 17 stories can't work as it is only 8.12 feet per story.

I am looking at this collapse with a critical eye and engineers usually worry about details when doing analyses. I don't see how it is hypocritical at all.

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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:46 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
..........and? (leading to my question of why)
...and I was asked to verify it, and I did. Shyam Sunder did indeed say this.
So do you think that this building was a high rise in the stated definition that NIST gave ?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:46 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
I looked at various articles and some said 17 stories and others 15. When counting the stories above ground in photos it is 15.

The story height is important and if 42 meters (137.76 feet) is right then 17 stories can't work as it is only 8.12 feet per story.

Engineers usually worry about details.
This matters how?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:47 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
...and I was asked to verify it, and I did. Shyam Sunder did indeed say this.
So do you think that this building was a high rise in the stated definition that NIST gave ?
It matters how?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:47 PM   #225
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well it is 17 stories.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:48 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
well it is 17 stories.
I don't think so. Not at 42M.
We might just as well say that the towers were 116 storeys then. Doesn't mean that they were 116 storeys above ground though. And that is the classification.

Last edited by Old coarse guy; 22nd January 2017 at 05:52 PM. Reason: 142 changed to 42m
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:49 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
well it is 17 stories.
It certainly is not 17 stories above ground.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:49 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Old coarse guy View Post
I don't think so. Not at 142M.
We might just as well say that the towers were 116 storeys then. Doesn't mean that they were 116 storeys above ground though. And that is the classification.
And it matters how?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:51 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
It certainly is not 17 stories above ground.
So?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:52 PM   #230
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I count 16 in this photo: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...anbul_intc.jpg
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:53 PM   #231
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Who counts basements as stories?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:53 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
So?
Some apparently didn't get that detail right. Sort of reminds of the NIST report with the girder seat width of 11 inches and the max lateral travel of 5.5 inches when the seat was actually 12 inches wide. It does matter.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:53 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
So you agree that Shyam said "over 15 storeys" presumably ?

Do you agree that the building was 42m high ?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:54 PM   #234
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I count (at least) 15 storeys above ground.

This matters how? What would be importantly different if it had 17 or 14 storeys?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:54 PM   #235
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Tony:

I'll give you a pass if you're a Packers fan and drunk............
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:54 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Who counts basements as stories?
Apparently the CTBUH do.

http://skyscrapercenter.com/building...building/28320
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:55 PM   #237
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Engineers usually worry about details.
you mean like planes flying into buildings,
those buildings collapsing and damaging other buildings, causing fires that make those buildings collapse?
Those kinda details?

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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:55 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
It is 15 in that photo. Count window lines and where there are air conditioners for the top 14 floors and you will see just one story below.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:55 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Some apparently didn't get that detail right. Sort of reminds of the NIST report with the girder seat width of 11 inches and the max lateral travel of 5.5 inches when the seat was actually 12 inches wide. It does matter.
This pertains to this collapse or the floor count how?
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Old 22nd January 2017, 05:55 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Tony Szamboti View Post
Some apparently didn't get that detail right. Sort of reminds of the NIST report with the girder seat width of 11 inches and the max lateral travel of 5.5 inches when the seat was actually 12 inches wide. It does not matter.
I inserted a word that you forgot.

You haven't explained yet why either matters. You just say it does.
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