Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

 International Skeptics Forum Fire leads to collapse of California highway overpass

 Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
 29th April 2007, 05:31 PM #41 ~enigma~ Banned   Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 7,923 Originally Posted by Apollo20 Well this is what the Associated Press had to say about the Oakland Bridge incident which occurred at 3:45 a.m. today: "8,600 gallons of gasoline ignited....flames rose 200 feet into the air ... (temperatures) exceeded 2750 degrees and caused the steel beams... to buckle AND BOLTS HOLDING THE STRUCTURE TOGETHER TO MELT, LEADING TO COLLAPSE" I wonder if the bolts were GALVANIZED STEEL? And again I say...where is waterboy and UL in all this?
 29th April 2007, 06:35 PM #42 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by Apollo20 Well this is what the Associated Press had to say about the Oakland Bridge incident which occurred at 3:45 a.m. today: "8,600 gallons of gasoline ignited....flames rose 200 feet into the air ... (temperatures) exceeded 2750 degrees and caused the steel beams... to buckle AND BOLTS HOLDING THE STRUCTURE TOGETHER TO MELT, LEADING TO COLLAPSE" I wonder if the bolts were GALVANIZED STEEL? A-5-72 (aka A-36, just like the WTC) steel. Carbon steel. Not stainless (CRES) How long does it take for your zinc embrittlement to occur in carbon steel (not stainless)? __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 29th April 2007, 06:41 PM #43 PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15,836 Quote: (Temperatures) exceeded 2750 degrees and caused the steel beams... To buckle and bolts holding the structure together to melt Ha... From this page Quote: temperature of flame from burning petrol is 471°-560°C Quote: Melting Point of Steel 1100°-1600°C How can a petrol fire get to 2750°F when petrol burns at only 1040°F, 972° lower than it need to melt steel??!!!??!!!1!!!!1111!!! __________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My Apollo Page.
 29th April 2007, 06:44 PM #44 beachnut Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 24,764 Originally Posted by Apollo20 Well this is what the Associated Press had to say about the Oakland Bridge incident which occurred at 3:45 a.m. today: "8,600 gallons of gasoline ignited....flames rose 200 feet into the air ... (temperatures) exceeded 2750 degrees and caused the steel beams... to buckle AND BOLTS HOLDING THE STRUCTURE TOGETHER TO MELT, LEADING TO COLLAPSE" I wonder if the bolts were GALVANIZED STEEL? Where did the paper get this from? Have you ever known a paper to get everything right?
 29th April 2007, 06:48 PM #45 Graham2001 Graduate Poster     Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,125 Originally Posted by rwguinn It was a conspirisy! They was supposed to 3" rebar on 4' centers. The C4 coating powderized them! I've never been able to understand that (not the C4 coating part), can we have the figures in metric?
 29th April 2007, 06:49 PM #46 ~enigma~ Banned   Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 7,923 Originally Posted by PhantomWolf Ha... From this page How can a petrol fire get to 2750°F when petrol burns at only 1040°F, 972° lower than it need to melt steel??!!!??!!!1!!!!1111!!! They don't know Fourier's law: or let alone Q = -hA(Ts – T) And i am not going to tell them. Do you want to?
 29th April 2007, 06:57 PM #47 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by Graham2001 I've never been able to understand that (not the C4 coating part), can we have the figures in metric? 76.2mm rebar on 1.2192 m centers! 111 eleventy one! eta--oops--Meters ane m's, not M's dadgummed SIU! __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 29th April 2007, 07:00 PM #48 Thunder Banned   Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 34,918 Please tell me they aren't talking about this at LC. Then again...should we expect any different?
 29th April 2007, 07:05 PM #49 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by ~enigma~ They don't know Fourier's law: http://www.efunda.com/formulae/heat_...ourier_law.gif or http://www.efunda.com/formulae/heat_...s/heat_eqn.gif let alone Q = -hA(Ts – T) And i am not going to tell them. Do you want to? Whatever you do, don't step in that. It sticks to your shoe and comes off on the carpet __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 29th April 2007, 07:07 PM #50 ~enigma~ Banned   Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 7,923 Originally Posted by parky76 Please tell me they aren't talking about this at LC. Then again...should we expect any different? I would but that would be a lie.
 29th April 2007, 07:08 PM #51 ~enigma~ Banned   Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 7,923 Originally Posted by rwguinn Whatever you do, don't step in that. It sticks to your shoe and comes off on the carpet Words of experience?
 29th April 2007, 07:11 PM #52 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by ~enigma~ Words of experience? Yeah--I know when I'm in over my head--unlike some people I could name, but won't. __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 29th April 2007, 07:12 PM #53 ~enigma~ Banned   Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 7,923 Originally Posted by rwguinn Yeah--I know when I'm in over my head--unlike some people I could name, but won't. You can name the Greek god...we won't laugh
 29th April 2007, 07:40 PM #54 Thunder Banned   Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 34,918 Fire can't bring down a major structure...but wind can? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_...ridge#Collapse
 29th April 2007, 07:46 PM #55 WildCat NWO Master Conspirator     Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 59,856 Originally Posted by Joshua Korosi Here's what you do. You make sure to get the truck's unit number (these are assigned by the gasoline company which owns the truck). Then you call the company's fuel depot and explain that you want that truck (for example, Truck 9112001) delivered to a specific address. The manager will likely have been trained to respond with "that truck is destroyed" or "it burnt up on the freeway on Saturday", or something similar. So you respond, firmly stating again that you need that truck to go to a specific address. If the manager keeps insisting the truck was destroyed, indicate with authority that "the truck needs to be moved - some people know it wasn't destroyed and they are looking for it." Then we make sure we have the depot staked out, and watch. The truck will show up, guaranteed. Then you will know the truth. And you have to match the serial number of every single part of the truck to the one allegedly involved in the crash. WHY HASN'T THE NTSB DONE THIS?! WHAT ARE THEY HIDING? __________________ Vive la liberté!
 29th April 2007, 07:54 PM #56 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by parky76 Fire can't bring down a major structure...but wind can? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_...ridge#Collapse Just to keep our Twoofers out, I'm gonna show you an equation that describes how a force vibration can get out of control:$A=f(1/(wn^2-wf^2-2*z*wf*wn*j))$ where wn is the natural frequency of the structure, wf is the frequency of the forcing function (turbulence shed off the bridge), and j=sqrt(-1) as you can see, when wf=wn, all that keeps amplitude from being infinite is z, the damping factor. For that structure, that mode, z would be about 5-7% (0.05 to 0.07)... __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275 Last edited by rwguinn; 29th April 2007 at 07:57 PM. Reason: fixed latex
 29th April 2007, 07:57 PM #57 Crazy Chainsaw Illuminator     Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,728 Originally Posted by rwguinn A-5-72 (aka A-36, just like the WTC) steel. Carbon steel. Not stainless (CRES) How long does it take for your zinc embrittlement to occur in carbon steel (not stainless)? http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00009/art00016 http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00012/art00019 I fail to see what Chromium Stainless steels have to do with a discussion of hydrogen Imbrittlement, in Galvanized steel because of the Chemical, and Electrical reaction of Zinc as an anode.
 29th April 2007, 08:08 PM #58 LashL Goddess of Legaltainment™     Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 35,414 Originally Posted by Apollo20 Well this is what the Associated Press had to say about the Oakland Bridge incident which occurred at 3:45 a.m. today: "8,600 gallons of gasoline ignited....flames rose 200 feet into the air ... (temperatures) exceeded 2750 degrees and caused the steel beams... to buckle AND BOLTS HOLDING THE STRUCTURE TOGETHER TO MELT, LEADING TO COLLAPSE" I wonder if the bolts were GALVANIZED STEEL? I am not at all surprised that news outlets would publish such things, but I find it difficult to believe that AP could possibly know the temperature at which the fire burned. Surely, it is too early for any specific forensic investigatory results to be known at this stage. (Of course, that has never stopped news outlets from publishing conjecture; or from misconstruing what they have been told; or from misquoting what they have been told; or from misinterpreting what they have been told; or from leaping to conclusions and misapplying what they have been told.)
 29th April 2007, 08:09 PM #59 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00009/art00016 http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00012/art00019 I fail to see what Chromium Stainless steels have to do with a discussion of hydrogen Imbrittlement, in Galvanized steel because of the Chemical, and Electrical reaction of Zinc as an anode. You went and lost me there, podner. Zinc embrittlement occurs, according to the links of the good doctor, in CRES primarily, not carbon steels. This was pointed out by gravy (link) yet Apollo20 presents it as a fact for carbon steels My point is that even hydrogen embrittlement take time--hours-to-weeks depending on conditions. And it is a major, nasty process--quick, as such things go. How long does it take for zinc embrittlement to occur in carbon steel, such that the reacton weakens very thick slabs of carbon steel, and is it quicker that the thermal weakening process? __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 29th April 2007, 08:37 PM #60 Crazy Chainsaw Illuminator     Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,728 Originally Posted by rwguinn You went and lost me there, podner. Zinc embrittlement occurs, according to the links of the good doctor, in CRES primarily, not carbon steels. This was pointed out by gravy (link) yet Apollo20 presents it as a fact for carbon steels My point is that even hydrogen embrittlement take time--hours-to-weeks depending on conditions. And it is a major, nasty process--quick, as such things go. How long does it take for zinc embrittlement to occur in carbon steel, such that the reacton weakens very thick slabs of carbon steel, and is it quicker that the thermal weakening process? In a High Acid environment, like in concrete with high sulfur levels, the reaction of the acid with zinc produces hydrogen Ion the metal absorbs them the amount of the acids and the temperature depend on the speed of the reaction. It is a similar reaction to that of a Zinc Chloride battery. I believe that Frank is confusing Zinc embrittlement with hydrogen embrittlement caused by Zinc which can be more rapid than zinc embrittlement because hydrogen can sneak in side the Crystals of the metals faster than the larger Zinc molecules. To separate reactions one cause Zinc.
 29th April 2007, 08:50 PM #61 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw In a High Acid environment, like in concrete with high sulfur levels, the reaction of the acid with zinc produces hydrogen Ion the metal absorbs them the amount of the acids and the temperature depend on the speed of the reaction. It is a similar reaction to that of a Zinc Chloride battery. I believe that Frank is confusing Zinc embrittlement with hydrogen embrittlement caused by Zinc which can be more rapid than zinc embrittlement because hydrogen can sneak in side the Crystals of the metals faster than the larger Zinc molecules. To separate reactions one cause Zinc. I must take the blame here. Apollo20 never mentioned Hydrogen embrittlement--I did, as a comparison. He went off on zinc embrittlement, as far as I can tell, as a likely contributor to the collapse of the towers. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 29th April 2007, 08:56 PM #62 Crazy Chainsaw Illuminator     Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,728 Originally Posted by rwguinn I must take the blame here. Apollo20 never mentioned Hydrogen embrittlement--I did, as a comparison. He went off on zinc embrittlement, as far as I can tell, as a likely contributor to the collapse of the towers. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Normally hydrogen Embrittlement would take years because of the low hydrogen production in nature, but a fire and increasing the speed both of hydrogen product, and its reactions with metals as well as increased heating from its combustion certainly could have, and likely from the evidence did play a part in the collapses.
 29th April 2007, 09:02 PM #63 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw Normally hydrogen Embrittlement would take years because of the low hydrogen production in nature, but a fire and increasing the speed both of hydrogen product, and its reactions with metals as well as increased heating from its combustion certainly could have, and likely from the evidence did play a part in the collapses. we're way off topic here. I answered you in the "what do the buildings have in common" thread-let's try to keep it there, so we can be consistent, ok? __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 30th April 2007, 05:23 AM #64 Apollo20 Banned   Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,425 How fast can zinc liqiud metal embrittlement, LME, occur? LME-induced cracks propagate along grain boundaries at rates that may reach several meters per second if substantial amounts of elastic strain energy are present in the stressed solid, thus giving rise to descriptions of LME failure as "catastrophic brittle fracture." Studies have shown that ferritic steels are susceptible to LME by molten zinc at temperatures of 450 deg C, while austenitic steels require temperatures of 750 deg C. See "The Technical Lessons of Flixborough" The Chemical Engineer, April 1976.
 30th April 2007, 06:36 AM #65 Civilized Worm Graduate Poster   Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,718 Originally Posted by parky76 Fire can't bring down a major structure...but wind can? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_...ridge#Collapse Wind? Or a SECRET GOVERNMENT WEATHER CONTROL DEVICE!
 30th April 2007, 06:41 AM #66 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by Apollo20 How fast can zinc liqiud metal embrittlement, LME, occur? LME-induced cracks propagate along grain boundaries at rates that may reach several meters per second if substantial amounts of elastic strain energy are present in the stressed solid, thus giving rise to descriptions of LME failure as "catastrophic brittle fracture." Studies have shown that ferritic steels are susceptible to LME by molten zinc at temperatures of 450 deg C, while austenitic steels require temperatures of 750 deg C. See "The Technical Lessons of Flixborough" The Chemical Engineer, April 1976. OK, that's the crack propigation rate in already embrittled steel. It says nothing about th embrittlement rate. P_leas don't confuse the two. Now, at 750C, what is the penetration rate of Liquid metalic zinc into the steel at that temperature, which by the way is now at <60% of its original strength due to temperature effects? second, how is this liquid metalic zinc getting into/onto the vertical support columns, which are at the ends of the floor pans, which pans are visibly and logicaly sagging in the middle? Unless you can show that unlike other fluids, Liquid metalic zinc flows against gravity, you need to show a mechanism. Again, I am not doubting that these reactions occurred. I am simply having a great deal of difficulty visualizing the volume of reactants required, the mechanism for the occurance, and how they would be greater in effect than the thermal strength reduction __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 30th April 2007, 06:58 AM #67 nicepants Graduate Poster     Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,722 I received an anonymous e-mail from "Mike B" who was at the scene and said he heard a countdown from 20 to 0 right before the collapse. He is afraid to go public, for safety reasons.
 30th April 2007, 07:07 AM #68 Apollo20 Banned   Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,425 RWGUINN: Please read up on the Flixborough Disaster and all will be revealed. Or you could ask Gravy who appears to be very knowledgeable on LME...
 30th April 2007, 07:26 AM #69 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by Apollo20 RWGUINN: Please read up on the Flixborough Disaster and all will be revealed. Or you could ask Gravy who appears to be very knowledgeable on LME... Nice diversion! Absolutly perfect non sequitur! Ok, so you have oxidation of cyclohexane, which afik was not present at the bridge, WTC 1, 2 or 7, a temporary bypass pipe (20") designed by inexperienced engineers, with insufficient analysis and testing, bursting under high pressure, releasing a flamable gas, which ispersed in a cloud(being denser than air), and which was ignited by some source. This relates to any of the Buildings/bridges/structuresundeer discussion in what way? Where is the H2 or Zn embrittlement? Where is the 750 degree ambient temperature it takes to form the gas. I think we all know that has the ignition source been at the point of pipe rupture and operating at the time of rupture, there would have been no explosion. Thishappens with reasonable frequency with gas stoves and water heaters in homes. The gas is leaking, collects, reaches the pilot light, and boom! __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 30th April 2007, 07:28 AM #70 Puggy Thinker     Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 172 Guys, guys, guys!!11 Don't Let Science Get In The Way. 4/28 Was An Inside Job!!!!!!!1111!
 30th April 2007, 07:32 AM #71 kookbreaker Evil Fokker     Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 11,257 Originally Posted by Apollo20 Or you could ask Gravy who appears to be very knowledgeable on LME... What the heck is it with this childish mad-on against Gravy? __________________ www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun! Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
 30th April 2007, 07:50 AM #72 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by rwguinn Nice diversion! Absolutly perfect non sequitur! <> I'm sorry--I was thinking non sequitur in the sense of the absurd. What Apollo20 did was lay a red herring at our feet __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 30th April 2007, 07:56 AM #73 Apollo20 Banned   Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,425 "This was pointed out by gravy (link) yet Apollo20 presents it as a fact for carbon steels..." RWGUINN: Please go to a Science Library and do a REAL search on LME. Otherwise you are wasting my time!
 30th April 2007, 08:51 AM #75 ~enigma~ Banned   Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 7,923 Does this argument remind anybody else of a three stooges episode? Cmon guys....what the hell does your pissing match have to do with anything in this thread?
 30th April 2007, 08:53 AM #76 Apollo20 Banned   Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,425 Oh Aptly Named RGUINN: Others? No, I said YOU were wasting my time! Please read up on the Flixborough Disaster! I have given you a reference; have you read the article? From your last few posts it suggests you haven't...
 30th April 2007, 08:54 AM #77 ~enigma~ Banned   Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 7,923 Does this argument remind anybody else of a three stooges episode? Cmon guys....what the hell does your pissing match have to do with anything in this thread?
 30th April 2007, 09:01 AM #78 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by Apollo20 Oh Aptly Named RGUINN: Others? No, I said YOU were wasting my time! Please read up on the Flixborough Disaster! I have given you a reference; have you read the article? From your last few posts it suggests you haven't... No--you did not provide a link. I looked it up, and I gave you a link to the official report. I am done with a "Scientist" who cannot even state his hypothesis, much less show any evidence in support, or provide any mechanism for its actuality. I call troll. so, ~enigma~ you can get back to whatever it is you object to. __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275
 30th April 2007, 09:26 AM #79 Gravy Downsitting Citizen     Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 17,072 Originally Posted by Apollo20 RWGUINN: Please read up on the Flixborough Disaster and all will be revealed. Or you could ask Gravy who appears to be very knowledgeable on LME... Yes, I came across the Flixborough incident. It concerns zinc embrittlement of stainless steel. Your point? __________________ "Please, keep your chops cool and don’t overblow.” –Freddie Hubbard What's the Harm?........Stop Sylvia Browne........My 9/11 links
 30th April 2007, 09:39 AM #80 rwguinn Penultimate Amazing     Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 10,792 Originally Posted by Apollo20 Oh Aptly Named RGUINN: Others? No, I said YOU were wasting my time! Please read up on the Flixborough Disaster! I have given you a reference; have you read the article? From your last few posts it suggests you haven't... Ok, whomever you are. Zinc embrittlement can occur in Stainless steel under 6.5 ksi stress and at a temperature of 800C in a matter of seconds. Thank you, gravy, for the extra link the doctor did not provide and insisted he did. The situation remains the same. Poor design, poor analysis, no testing led to failure. To state that zinc embrittlement caused the failure would be a stretch. It was a contributor to the failure, but not the reason for the failure. And no relationship to the towers or bridge, which were A-36 steel, not stainless steel. In other words, a red herring. G'bye, doc. write when you can tell us what your hypothesis actually is. __________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

International Skeptics Forum

 Bookmarks Digg del.icio.us StumbleUpon Google Reddit