ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags conservatism , conservatives , donald trump , george will , Max Boot , republican party

Reply
Old 13th July 2018, 01:38 PM   #81
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,025
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
His flirting with racists was why I already did not like candidate Trump, among other things. When the party betrayed any principles it had with regards to economics, by throwing its weight behind Trump, I left the party - it had totally deserted anything attracting me to it at that point.

If you are implying I am racist, you are wrong

If you are saying I associate at times with racists, well I have racist relatives, have had racist coworkers, and have very probably bought and sold things from and to racists. If the opportunity permits, I make my views known with such folks. If I believe I can influence them to be more non-racist, I will make an effort to do so.
As his remarks in the UK on European immigratation show,Trump is not flirting with racists, he is having full intercourse with them.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 01:39 PM   #82
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,025
Max Boot is not asking people to join the Democratic Party;he makes clear he had considerable distate for a lot of Democrats and their policies;but he thinks putting at least one part of government in a position to block Trump has become critical to saving Democracy in the US.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 01:49 PM   #83
ahhell
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,700
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
His flirting with racists was why I already did not like candidate Trump, among other things. When the party betrayed any principles it had with regards to economics, by throwing its weight behind Trump, I left the party - it had totally deserted anything attracting me to it at that point.

If you are implying I am racist, you are wrong

If you are saying I associate at times with racists, well I have racist relatives, have had racist coworkers, and have very probably bought and sold things from and to racists. If the opportunity permits, I make my views known with such folks. If I believe I can influence them to be more non-racist, I will make an effort to do so.
Perhaps I was a bit harsh. It just struck me as an odd place to draw the line. Now if you had left once it was clear that the majority of the party was lining up behind trump in a fit tribalism, which has happened after his flirting with racists, I would have understood. That's basically where I've stopped trying to defend them. 80-90% have a favorable attitude to a guy that flirts with racists, regularly says clearly offensive things to allies while complimenting hostile dictators, and pursues policies that are quite contradictory to previous conservative positions.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 02:13 PM   #84
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Okay, I will. I figure both ends of the political spectrum have their loony fringe elements. I also figure that only the Right have made their loony fringe mainstream.



Denies children are being held in cages…



… goes on to literally describe a cage.



Nicely put. I’m sure the other forum conservatives are glad to have you aboard and look forward to more statements like this in support of your shared ideology.



Your criticisms of the Left, however, are a breath of fresh air.



Please describe in detail how exactly Trump has “accomplished” those things, and please identify the metrics being used to quantify these “accomplishments” that differ from the ones we were told were inaccurate when we had job growth and low unemployment under Obama.

Well this ought to go well.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2018, 02:30 PM   #85
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 18,800
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Max Boot is not asking people to join the Democratic Party;he makes clear he had considerable distate for a lot of Democrats and their policies;but he thinks putting at least one part of government in a position to block Trump has become critical to saving Democracy in the US.
I still will vote for who I think is the best candidate. As I always have. If the Democrats put up a candidate next time around who is, unthinkable as that may be, worse than Trump, I will not vote for them - and if a third party candidate is better than either major party, I will vote for them. Candidates for any office who support Trump will also very probably not get my support, as that shows a severe lack of principle.
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles

Last edited by LSSBB; 13th July 2018 at 02:32 PM.
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th July 2018, 01:02 PM   #86
Fudbucker
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,537
More from Boot:

U.S. Constitution, Article III, Section 3: “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.” Trump’s own national security adviser said the Russian election attack constituted an “act of war.” So what does that make his boss? Some — including former CIA director John Brennan — now dare call it treason. That conclusion was once unthinkable. No longer.
Fudbucker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2018, 11:47 AM   #87
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,025
If Democracy in the US is to survive, the GOP as it currently is...a personality cult of Donald Trump rapidly becoming openly authoritarian and fascist...must die.It;s that simple.
I would love for some of the die hard GOPers here to disprove my description of the current GOP.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th July 2018, 02:07 PM   #88
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 8,267
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I agree that the U.S. needs a strong 2-party system.

The one main disagreement I had with your post is the suggestion that it is the "Trump storm" that the republican party has to weather. The fact is, the GOP has had significant issues for years, long before Trump joined the republican primaries:

- Close association with the Christian evangelicals

- Close association with the NRA

- A rather large segment of 'tea partiers' in Congress

- Congress in the hands of people like Mitch "Oppose Obama regardless of whether his ideas make sense" McConnell, or the people who decide that voter suppression of minorities is preferable to actually offering policies that minorities might like, destroying any sense of bipartisanship, compromise or inclusiveness

In some ways, Trump is almost a symptom of the disease rather than the disease itself. The rot has gone on for such a long period of time that I personally have doubts whether the Republican party CAN be saved.
I thought the Republican Party was dying before Trump. I think you are right that Trump is a symptom of the underlying disease. If the Republican Party dies (more likely it won't disappear completely, but will become a mostly irrelevant fringe party), the Democrats will split. You can already see the split developing, between the center (Obama, Hillary, etc.) and the more leftist (Bernie Sanders) factions.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2018, 04:14 PM   #89
WilliamSeger
Illuminator
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,633
Rather than start a new thread:

Christine Todd Whitman: Calling my fellow Republicans: Trump is clearly unfit to remain in office

Originally Posted by Christine Todd Whitman
President Trump’s disgraceful performance in Helsinki, Finland, and in the days since is an indication that he is not fit to remain in office. Trump’s 2016 “America First” platform might be more aptly named “Russia First” after the disaster that occurred last week.

Trump’s turn toward Russia is indefensible. I am a lifelong Republican. I have campaigned and won as a member of the party, and I have served more than one Republican president. My Republican colleagues — once rightfully critical of President Obama’s engagement strategy with Russian leader Vladimir Putin — have to end their willful ignorance of the damage Trump is doing both domestically and internationally. We must put aside the GOP label, as hard as that may be, and demonstrate the leadership our country needs by calling on the president to step down.

Trump’s sycophantic relationship with Putin is unsurprising given his previous comments about Russia and its dictator. What is shocking is how long he has possessed — and disregarded — hard evidence of Putin’s direct role in undermining our elections. According to New York Times reporting, he saw dispositive emails and texts early in January 2017.

<snip>
Republican voters, including those who supported Donald Trump, have the obligation to demand action from their elected officials. Vocal opposition is expected from Democrats, but it is Republicans’ disapproval that will have the most sway on Capitol Hill and at the White House.

Those members of the party in Congress who have stood up to the president should be commended. More must follow, with more than private talk and tepid tweets. Only bold leadership can put the United States back on a path that values freedom and democracy, and truly puts America first.
WilliamSeger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2018, 04:35 PM   #90
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,164
Brava to Whitman! More Republicans need to find a spine and speak up against the infection that is Trump.

In the meantime, I saw a Republican in a golf retirement village in Florida say he loves Trump because he (and I'm paraphrasing) plays the media like a violin. This man has fallen for the "the media is the enemy" and the "fake news" Trump propaganda. What a reason to support a lying, malignant narcissist.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2018, 04:54 PM   #91
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 18,800
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Brava to Whitman! More Republicans need to find a spine and speak up against the infection that is Trump.

In the meantime, I saw a Republican in a golf retirement village in Florida say he loves Trump because he (and I'm paraphrasing) plays the media like a violin. This man has fallen for the "the media is the enemy" and the "fake news" Trump propaganda. What a reason to support a lying, malignant narcissist.
Did he support Slick Willie for having the same ability?
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2018, 05:19 PM   #92
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,164
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Did he support Slick Willie for having the same ability?
He'd probably support anyone who gave him those sweet tax breaks. Screw everyone else.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2018, 05:25 PM   #93
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 11,752
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Rather than start a new thread:

Christine Todd Whitman: Calling my fellow Republicans: Trump is clearly unfit to remain in office
Sadly, I’m pretty sure most of the GOP considers East Coast Republicans to be RINOs.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2018, 05:33 PM   #94
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,164
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Sadly, I’m pretty sure most of the GOP considers East Coast Republicans to be RINOs.
Trump's not even a Republican. He's a Trumpican. It's all about him.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2018, 05:44 PM   #95
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 18,528
Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Rather than start a new thread:

Christine Todd Whitman: Calling my fellow Republicans: Trump is clearly unfit to remain in office
Easy for her to say. She's not trying to get re-elected.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2018, 06:58 PM   #96
Venom
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,707
Only a little more than a quarter of young voters 18-29 are "absolutely certain" to come out and vote in November.

Disappointing and embarrassing to be a part of this demographic, after all that has happened.
Venom is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd July 2018, 11:41 PM   #97
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,269
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Only a little more than a quarter of young voters 18-29 are "absolutely certain" to come out and vote in November.

Disappointing and embarrassing to be a part of this demographic, after all that has happened.
In order to have a "blue wave" later this year, IMO the Democratic Party need to give people a positive reason to go out and vote for them - dislike of the current President is not good enough. The Democrats need "attractive" candidates (not just the same-old, same-old) and policies the electorate can really get on board with.

I don't get to see very much from this side of the Atlantic. I've seen some evidence for the first (but IMO not enough), but none for the latter. The Democratic Party risks a low turnout where fanatical Trumpists turn out and, combined with GOP gerrymandering and voter suppression, hold the house and actually increase their majority in the Senate.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 04:18 PM   #98
Polaris
Penultimate Amazing
 
Polaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,247
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
BTW Max Boot has written some really good Military History.
That's why the name sounded so familiar!

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
In order to have a "blue wave" later this year, IMO the Democratic Party need to give people a positive reason to go out and vote for them - dislike of the current President is not good enough. The Democrats need "attractive" candidates (not just the same-old, same-old) and policies the electorate can really get on board with.

I don't get to see very much from this side of the Atlantic. I've seen some evidence for the first (but IMO not enough), but none for the latter. The Democratic Party risks a low turnout where fanatical Trumpists turn out and, combined with GOP gerrymandering and voter suppression, hold the house and actually increase their majority in the Senate.
IMO the Democrats need to ratchet up the anger. "These bad things are going on in your name and are negatively going to affect you soon, if they aren't already, and Republicans are trying to prevent you from doing something about it." Make it personal.
__________________
"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar

"Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk.
Polaris is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 04:21 PM   #99
Distracted1
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,420
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Only a little more than a quarter of young voters 18-29 are "absolutely certain" to come out and vote in November.

Disappointing and embarrassing to be a part of this demographic, after all that has happened.
There isn't any conceivable way one should be disappointed at being 18 to 29 .
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 04:28 PM   #100
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 18,988
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
That's why the name sounded so familiar!



IMO the Democrats need to ratchet up the anger. "These bad things are going on in your name and are negatively going to affect you soon, if they aren't already, and Republicans are trying to prevent you from doing something about it." Make it personal.
I'm with you on that. I think that Democratic politicians have to hit every news show and display some visible outrage. They have to hammer it home that this is a democratic republic and it will not go quietly into the night.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 04:36 PM   #101
WilliamSeger
Illuminator
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,633
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
IMO the Democrats need to ratchet up the anger. "These bad things are going on in your name and are negatively going to affect you soon, if they aren't already, and Republicans are trying to prevent you from doing something about it." Make it personal.
No, libtards with Trump Derangement Syndrome need to stop insulting Trump supporters, or they'll never win another election.


[/cain]
WilliamSeger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 05:24 PM   #102
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,688
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Max Boot is not asking people to join the Democratic Party;he makes clear he had considerable distate for a lot of Democrats and their policies;but he thinks putting at least one part of government in a position to block Trump has become critical to saving Democracy in the US.
Congress is doing a fine job of blocking Trump so far.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 06:38 PM   #103
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,025
Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
That's why the name sounded so familiar!



IMO the Democrats need to ratchet up the anger. "These bad things are going on in your name and are negatively going to affect you soon, if they aren't already, and Republicans are trying to prevent you from doing something about it." Make it personal.
ANd the GOP managed to win the House in 2010 doing nothing but running against Obama.
I think the Don just does not get that US politics is different the UK politics..it's a lot rowdier and is often driven by dislike of the other party.
His list of outcomes in November is also limited;like a scenario in which the Dems do not win the house but come within four or five seats of doing so,giving them a de facto ablity to block most legislation.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 06:46 PM   #104
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 18,988
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Congress is doing a fine job of blocking Trump so far.
No it's not.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 07:36 PM   #105
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,688
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No it's not.
To be fair, Trump hasn't really done much that Congress could block anyway. But voting for more Democrats won't solve that.

Basically Max Boot is calling for progressives to get SCOTUS nominations. And somehow other progressives instantly believe that this is a program all conservatives should understand and support.

I didn't pay attention to Max Boot before he went anti Trump. Why would I pay attention to him now?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 07:50 PM   #106
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 17,073
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why would I pay attention to him now?
Because he's asking you to stop betraying your country.
Craig4 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 07:51 PM   #107
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 18,988
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
To be fair, Trump hasn't really done much that Congress could block anyway. But voting for more Democrats won't solve that.

Basically Max Boot is calling for progressives to get SCOTUS nominations. And somehow other progressives instantly believe that this is a program all conservatives should understand and support.

I didn't pay attention to Max Boot before he went anti Trump. Why would I pay attention to him now?
This is simply not true. Trump is decimating agency after agency from the justice department to the EPA to the State Department to the DOE, HUD, OSHA Department of Labor and others. The executive branch runs them but Congress has oversight on all of it.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 08:02 PM   #108
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,688
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Because he's asking you to stop betraying your country.
So are you. What does he tell me that adds any weight to the opinion you're already pushing?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 09:22 PM   #109
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 17,073
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
So are you. What does he tell me that adds any weight to the opinion you're already pushing?
After you saw the Russian whore with his John in Helsinki I guess there's nothing that could make you loyal to your country.
Craig4 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 09:27 PM   #110
Fudbucker
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,537
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Congress is doing a fine job of blocking Trump so far.
Congress cannot block trump from emboldening our enemies weakening our alliances and disparaging our elections and government institutions. Words matter, esp. When they're the president's. Oh yes, he's also a racist misogynist incompetent bullying serial liar.

Do you regret your trump vote yet? You eventually will, you know.

Last edited by Fudbucker; 23rd July 2018 at 09:33 PM.
Fudbucker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 09:31 PM   #111
Fudbucker
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 8,537
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
So are you. What does he tell me that adds any weight to the opinion you're already pushing?
How many former republicans have to warn you about a specific republican president before you pay attention? Have you EVER heard members of a party talk about their own president this way?
Fudbucker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd July 2018, 11:31 PM   #112
WilliamSeger
Illuminator
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,633
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
So are you. What does he tell me that adds any weight to the opinion you're already pushing?
He's a respected conservative Republican -- and not the only one -- trying to tell you the price of the right-wing SC judge or tax cut or whatever it is you think you'll get from the self-obsessed, self-serving, weak and fragile traitor in the White House, and it only carries the same weight as an anonymous liberal on the net?

You do make a good case for why nobody should care what it would take to change your mind. That'll happen or it won't; Democrats need to focus their efforts where it's more likely to produce results -- like making so much noise that even low-information voters can hear it.
WilliamSeger is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th July 2018, 12:48 AM   #113
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 25,269
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
ANd the GOP managed to win the House in 2010 doing nothing but running against Obama.
That's the GOP - they're appealing to an entirely different demographic, one where "vote against the n-word" is going to work just fine.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think the Don just does not get that US politics is different the UK politics..it's a lot rowdier and is often driven by dislike of the other party.
I may not get US politics, who knows, but successful Democratic Party candidates in the modern era have been young and have been absolute rock stars. Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama are excellent orators, but more than that they had something about them which inspired the electorate.

The unsuccessful candidates, Dukakis, Mondale, Gore, Kerry and Hillary were all arguably highly competent legislators, smart people who would be willing to work hard for the American people, but they completely lacked the *it* factor to get Democratic Party voters out in force.

IMO Democratic Party voters want to be wooed into voting for the candidate. GOP voters are far more reliable, though in their case they seem to want someone they can relate to, and have a beer with, Reagan, George W Bush, Donald Trump and are less worried about personality.

George H W Bush is an outlier but I'd say he was Reagan's third term and as soon as he was "rumbled", he failed to be reelected.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
His list of outcomes in November is also limited;like a scenario in which the Dems do not win the house but come within four or five seats of doing so,giving them a de facto ablity to block most legislation.
As other posters have pointed out, the ability merely to block legislation may actually backfire on the Democratic Party. GOP voters may be perfectly happy for their representatives to be wholly obstructionist, after all Conservatism should be about preserving the status quo so stopping new legislation is a good second best to getting your own legislation through. Progressives want change so will be turned off by the Democratic Party becoming 100% obstructionist.

In any case, IMO it would just result in President Trump and his administration increasingly resorting to rule by executive order and/or underfunding - neither of which is a good thing.
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th July 2018, 09:54 AM   #114
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 18,800
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
George H W Bush is an outlier but I'd say he was Reagan's third term and as soon as he was "rumbled", he failed to be reelected.
Good point. I do believe that if Trump said "Read my lips. No new taxes.", then raised taxes, his followers would cling to whatever rationale he used to go back on a promise.
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th July 2018, 10:03 AM   #115
dasmiller
Just the right amount of cowbell
 
dasmiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Well past Hither, looking for Yon
Posts: 5,920
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Good point. I do believe that if Trump said "Read my lips. No new taxes.", then raised taxes, his followers would cling to whatever rationale he used to go back on a promise.
The rationale would be something like "The missing emails!"
__________________
"In times of war, we need warriors. But this isn't a war." - Phil Plaitt
dasmiller is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th July 2018, 10:19 AM   #116
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,025
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
After you saw the Russian whore with his John in Helsinki I guess there's nothing that could make you loyal to your country.
Some people are willing to sell their country down the drain for a Tax Cut.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th July 2018, 10:31 AM   #117
crescent
Master Poster
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,645
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I may not get US politics, who knows, but successful Democratic Party candidates in the modern era have been young and have been absolute rock stars. Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama are excellent orators, but more than that they had something about them which inspired the electorate.
I've seen a few articles pointing this out, critical of the Dems for failing to nurture younger candidates.

Now they've got a situation with the old guard of people in the 70's and 80's mostly running the show, and an insurgent force of people in their twenties and thirties - but not so many in between. They have a younger voter base, but can't get them to be motivated to get out for people forty and fifty (or more) years older than so much of their base. The Dem base wants change, but perhaps does not see such elderly people as the best agent for that change.

The GOP, by comparison, has a good number of people in their 40's and 50's in power. The GOP base wants to preserve the status quo or set back the clock a bit, they see somewhat younger politicians who feel that way as a way of holding the line for some time.
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:45 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.