ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags assassinations , JFK assassination , John F. Kennedy , Kennedy conspiracies

Reply
Old 18th October 2018, 01:34 PM   #1921
bknight
Muse
 
bknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 922
Quote:

From Star Trek 6: First rule of assassination: kill the assassin.

This is from one or more screen writers and is their opinion only.

Last edited by bknight; 18th October 2018 at 02:19 PM.
bknight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2018, 01:42 PM   #1922
HSienzant
Illuminator
 
HSienzant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,581
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Well, it's never a good idea to quote idiots.
There's an obvious point to be made here, but it's so obvious there's no need for me to actually express it.

Besides, if I did, I'd likely get a warning.

Hank
__________________
I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 18th October 2018 at 02:22 PM.
HSienzant is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2018, 04:42 PM   #1923
Axxman300
Illuminator
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,224
Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
There's an obvious point to be made here, but it's so obvious there's no need for me to actually express it.

Besides, if I did, I'd likely get a warning.

Hank
Heh...

Here's the problem with killing the assassin:

Most known professional hit-men have a long list of successful hits. I'm referring to known, and confessed Mafia hit-men. The Mafia doesn't kill these guys because a good hit-man is hard to find, so when you have a guy like Sammy Gravano in your ranks you want to keep him around.

Could you imagine the clout a hit-man would have after killing JFK? He could command top-dollar, and his employer would pay him a retainer because being able to threaten someone with a visit from the guy who killed JFK would make their life much easier. This is one of the reasons the Chicago mob was happy to let people think they were in on the assassination. It's one thing to stare down Sam Giancana, that's intimidating enough, but facing off against the guy who might have whacked JFK...in broad daylight? You can't buy that kind of intimidation.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2018, 05:17 PM   #1924
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 9,231
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
There is a huge disconnect between CTists and the real world.

In the case of the JFK Assassination they're fixated on a second, or multiple gunmen in Dealey Plaza - none of which are Oswald, and it puts them in the position of defending incredibly stupid theories.
This is CT World 101. You don't dismiss the theory when the facts don't fit, you either...

a. where possible, continually increase the complexity (and stupidity) of the theory to force-fit the facts, or

b. ignore the facts, or handwave them away, or

c. argue excruciatingly minor points that are of minimal importance, or

d. attempt to create new meanings for words to make those words fit the theory (manifesto's multi-page argument about the meaning of the word "should" is a gold-plated example of this).

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Never once do they stop and ask the question: How would the CIA kill JFK? How would the Maffia kill JFK? How would the Cubans kill JKF? How would anti-Castro Cubans kill JFK?

There are four very different answers to each of those questions.

The CIA would have used poison. JFK had a number of ailments requiring daily medications, and it would have been easy to slip something to him.

The Maffia would have used a pretty woman. JFK regularly had sex on the side, sending Secret Service agents out to bring them to his hotel room. The Maffia's signature is always up-close and personal.

A Cuban operation to kill JFK would look a lot like what happened in Dallas. They would have pre-positioned assets in a location where the President was scheduled to appear, and hoped for the best. The problem is that an anti-Castro plot against the President would also look like what took place in Dallas too. The problem here is that Cuba would have signed their death warrant had they killed JFK, there would be no holding back the USA, and Johnson came into office looking for a war somewhere.
The problem with anti-Castro Cubans is that there were on-going MONGOOSE and AM/LASH operations against Cuba that would have continued the length of JFK's time in office. Johnson shut them down, and did more damage to the anti-Castro cause than the Bay of Pigs ever did.

In the end we're left with Lee Harvey Oswald. All of the evidence points to him acting alone.

All in all, a pretty good precis/analysis of why it is extremely unlikely that there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. It basically boils down to the fact that those who may have had the motive....

1. ...and were in a position to do it had ample opportunity to have done so quietly in a way unlikely to draw an investigation.

2. ... and were not in such a position (so would have had to go the "Dealey Plaza" way) risked severe, unacceptable repercussions.

The recently declassified JFK documents indicate very clearly that the CIA and the FBI tried very, vary hard to find a conspiracy, especially looking for Cuban involvement, and most especially after those famous 13 days the year before. I have no doubt that, had the Cuban government assassinated Kennedy, Cuba would have found itself in a war with the USA.
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

Last edited by smartcooky; 18th October 2018 at 05:20 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2018, 07:51 PM   #1925
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 18,310
Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
The same can be said of all the other fantasies about why X would kill Kennedy. It simply would have been relatively easy to destroy Kennedy without killing him and avoid the truly serious risks of trying to kill him / kill him and being caught.
I have occasionally noted that with so many people involved in the conspiracy to kill Kennedy or cover it up, i.e. the conspirators managed to get J. Edgar Hoover, Earl Warren, Gerald Ford, Hale Boggs, and Allen Dulles to all work together as a team, then what would be the point of killing the President? He obviously was just a figurehead anyway.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2018, 08:54 PM   #1926
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 9,231
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I have occasionally noted that with so many people involved in the conspiracy to kill Kennedy or cover it up, i.e. the conspirators managed to get J. Edgar Hoover, Earl Warren, Gerald Ford, Hale Boggs, and Allen Dulles to all work together as a team, then what would be the point of killing the President? He obviously was just a figurehead anyway.
You forgot LBJ!
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2018, 10:46 PM   #1927
JimOfAllTrades
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Never once do they stop and ask the question: How would the CIA kill JFK? How would the Maffia kill JFK? How would the Cubans kill JKF? How would anti-Castro Cubans kill JFK?
I'm reminded of an line from an old detective fiction TV show. I think it was Columbo, but I'm not sure.

Anyway the detective is talking to a suspect, and lays out a theory about how the suspect might have tricked everyone into thinking he was somewhere else, he had no gun, the murder took place at a completely different time, etc.

The suspect thinks for a minute and says something like "Yeah, it all sounds too complicated. I'm more of a six sticks of dynamite kind of guy"

If any of those groups were going to kill JFK, there were certainly simpler ways to do it.
JimOfAllTrades is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 06:00 AM   #1928
bknight
Muse
 
bknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 922
Originally Posted by JimOfAllTrades View Post
I'm reminded of an line from an old detective fiction TV show. I think it was Columbo, but I'm not sure.

Anyway the detective is talking to a suspect, and lays out a theory about how the suspect might have tricked everyone into thinking he was somewhere else, he had no gun, the murder took place at a completely different time, etc.

The suspect thinks for a minute and says something like "Yeah, it all sounds too complicated. I'm more of a six sticks of dynamite kind of guy"

If any of those groups were going to kill JFK, there were certainly simpler ways to do it.
LHO I the simplest explanation(KISS).
bknight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 11:59 AM   #1929
bknight
Muse
 
bknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 922
Originally Posted by bknight View Post
LHO I the simplest explanation(KISS).
My comment should have been

LHO Is the simplest explanation(KISS).
bknight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 04:36 PM   #1930
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,633
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You forgot LBJ!
Yeah if he was going to kill JFK he'd used a mind controlled steerable steer.....or somethin'
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:01 AM   #1931
Cosmic Yak
Master Poster
 
Cosmic Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 2,261
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yeah if he was going to kill JFK he'd used a mind controlled steerable steer.....or somethin'
An assassin disguised as a grassy knoll, which would be programmed to self-destruct afterwards, thus fulfilling the scarily-accurate prophecies of Star Trek 6 at the same time.
__________________
Fortuna Faveat Fatuis
Cosmic Yak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:06 AM   #1932
The Great Zaganza
Philosopher
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 5,408
So what's with the theory that the last shot was fired accidentally by one of the bodyguards, who was part of a conspiracy with Mr. J. Daniels and Mr. J. Walker?
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:26 AM   #1933
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 9,231
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
So what's with the theory that the last shot was fired accidentally by one of the bodyguards, who was part of a conspiracy with Mr. J. Daniels and Mr. J. Walker?

Pure, unadulterated bunkum!
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:05 AM   #1934
bknight
Muse
 
bknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 922
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Pure, unadulterated bunkum!
That can be said of all the theories concerning the assassination of JFK.
bknight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:50 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.