[Continuation] Musk buys Twitter II - Page 30

jimbob · 1st December 2023, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

I want Elon to be involved in a conspiracy that needs a lengthy investigation.

I want it to be called Elongate.

I bet you're pleased with yourself.

You should be

Andy_Ross · 1st December 2023, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by jimbob

I bet you're pleased with yourself.

You should be

Incredibly, I didn't even steal it from Twitter.

Aridas · 1st December 2023, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Samson

Here we have a clip where Musk is described as the greatest living American, and noting that there is no other country on this planet he could have done all this thing.
Please let this be an agreed FACT so any pile on cogently refutes that notion.

Megyn Kelly is a fan girl so let us all sneeer.

https://youtu.be/jPCNJ0ygfT8?si=0lGYtm_ZV9Ox1txX

Why would you think that this would pass muster?

You're basically begging for others to just agree that you're totally right on a point where there's been vehement disagreement. Going further, it would be absurd to expect widespread agreement in the first place even without that, given the very nature of the claimed "fact."

Much more could easily be said, but without that being addressed, I think that it would be practically meaningless.

Samson · 1st December 2023, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Aridas

Why would you think that this would pass muster?

You're basically begging for others to just agree that you're totally right on a point where there's been vehement disagreement. Going further, it would be absurd to expect widespread agreement in the first place even without that, given the very nature of the claimed "fact."

Much more could easily be said, but without that being addressed, I think that it would be practically meaningless.

To be more clear, I suggest it can be an agreed fact that only in America could an individual become the biggest player in media, electric cars, and space travel in the world.

varwoche · 1st December 2023, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Samson

To be more clear, I suggest it can be an agreed fact that only in America could an individual become the biggest player in media, electric cars, and space travel in the world.

Nope:

1. You're fundamentally clueless about what a fact is. We don't know that "only in America..." is true. It's unknowable. That's your opinion.

2. X is miniscule compared to large media companies such as Disney. It's not even the biggest social media company. (For icing on the cake, X is tanking since Musk acquired it.)

Try again.

Aridas · 1st December 2023, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

To be more clear, I suggest it can be an agreed fact that only in America could an individual become the biggest player in media, electric cars, and space travel in the world.

Thank you for that narrowing.

Even so, though, it's difficult to accept that "only" as a "fact." The path to such may be easiest in the US, but that doesn't eliminate the potential to do so elsewhere. I suppose that one could try to invoke technicalities about the space industry and the US' massive dominance there to try to make a small point, but that's basically grasping at straws to salvage a technicality.

As it applies to Musk and the media, in particular, I have strong doubts about any attempt to label him as "the biggest player in media," regardless. He may have become the biggest upstart in media after he acquired Twitter and decided to try making running it all about him and his desires, but that's not the same thing as biggest player. Further, he's already squandered much of that and is on course to kill Twitter, which would remove even that questionable justification.

catsmate · 1st December 2023, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

To be more clear, I suggest it can be an agreed fact that only in America could an individual become the biggest player in media, electric cars, and space travel in the world.

Who is this person?

Samson · 1st December 2023, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Aridas

Thank you for that narrowing.

Even so, though, it's difficult to accept that "only" as a "fact." The path to such may be easiest in the US, but that doesn't eliminate the potential to do so elsewhere. I suppose that one could try to invoke technicalities about the space industry and the US' massive dominance there to try to make a small point, but that's basically grasping at straws to salvage a technicality.

As it applies to Musk and the media, in particular, I have strong doubts about any attempt to label him as "the biggest player in media," regardless. He may have become the biggest upstart in media after he acquired Twitter and decided to try making running it all about him and his desires, but that's not the same thing as biggest player. Further, he's already squandered much of that and is on course to kill Twitter, which would remove even that questionable justification.

Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign.
X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player.
Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk.

Samson · 1st December 2023, 02:12 PM

And now we learn how difficult nazis are to deal with, where Substack has the same problem as X.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...m_medium=email

I suggest education must be broadened to better provide filters for people from age 2 and up. This will be the new age of enlightenment. It starts with science science and more science. Everything is science, including the human brain. Chomsky in his better days described deep structure of language. See that word structure, this is science. If X is a pirate ship, it is up to the traders to use their judgment.

I suggest the above for discussion rather than the gospel according to me.

junkshop · 1st December 2023, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

...X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player...

Nope.

As of 2023, there are approximately 556 million active monthly users on X.

There are 2.95 Billion Monthly Active Users on Facebook

TikTok has over 1.677 billion users globally, out of which 1.1 billion are its monthly active users

There are currently over 2.35 billion monthly active Instagram users...The platform is estimated to reach over 2.5 billion by the end of 2023

This site has a graph ranking social media platforms by monthly active users, as of October 2023. Twitter/X comes 12^th out of 15 (and they credit it with a higher MAU than my first link).

Originally Posted by Samson

...Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk.

I'm not aware of Soros owning a social media platform. I can't think why you would choose him as the antithesis of Musk...

angrysoba · 1st December 2023, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign.
X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player.
Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk.

These things don’t have to be one or the other.

Your whole reasoning about this looks like cult dynamics to me. Asked if there is anything to criticize in the dear leader you merely say that this leader is more deserving of veneration than some other one. Stop being a slave to internet daddies and think for yourself.

Originally Posted by Samson

And now we learn how difficult nazis are to deal with, where Substack has the same problem as X.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...m_medium=email

I suggest education must be broadened to better provide filters for people from age 2 and up. This will be the new age of enlightenment. It starts with science science and more science. Everything is science, including the human brain. Chomsky in his better days described deep structure of language. See that word structure, this is science. If X is a pirate ship, it is up to the traders to use their judgment.

I suggest the above for discussion rather than the gospel according to me.

What on Earth has Chomsky describing deep structure of language got to do with anything?

Besides, Chomskyan linguistics looks less and less like a good model for language these days. In fact it’s been picked apart for the last forty years or more.

Darat · 1st December 2023, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign.
X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player.
Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk.

Which media matters’ campaign?

varwoche · 1st December 2023, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign.
X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player.
Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk.

Soros??

You're playing Mad Libs again. Are you familiar with that game for kids, where random nouns and verbs are inserted into a narrative?

Do you know the reason why the right-wing nuts who you rely on for "facts" wave Soros' name around so persistently and fervently? Thats because they, like your hero, are anti-semites. Why are you waving it around in this random fashion? It's not a good look.

arthwollipot · 1st December 2023, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

I want Elon to be involved in a conspiracy that needs a lengthy investigation.

I want it to be called Elongate.

Damn, that could go on forever.

novaphile · 1st December 2023, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

It's all as nutty as a bag of nuts in a nut shop on a nut farm, in Nutville, during nut season, whether version 1 or version q.

FTFY.

:P

novaphile · 1st December 2023, 07:09 PM

Be careful, if certain 'members' discover that Shakespeare contains men dressing as women and women dressing as men...

... heads may asplode.

dirtywick · 1st December 2023, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign.
X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player.
Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk.

why? soros is the head of a secret jew cabal that runs the world. musk was defeated by beta cuck journalists

Aridas · 1st December 2023, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign.

To be perfectly clear about what that is, that's an example of flailing about for an excuse. Media Matters is a minor player in the big picture, at very best. Even when it comes to this "campaign" that you speak of, it would have pretty much no effect if it weren't for Musk and those he's been actively working to amplify pushing such and thus giving ample cause for credible concern.

To point out something that eludes some again, the product that Twitter actually sells is access to and understanding of the users. Under Dorsey, the rules and moderation were fundamentally focused on maximizing access to the users. Under Musk? He's largely been doing the opposite and restricting access to the users, both directly and indirectly. Directly with policy and indirectly by making the environment more and more undesirable for both advertisers and users.

THAT is why X might be finished so quickly. Not Media Matters.

Originally Posted by Samson

X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player.

Addressed by others already. This claim is not factual. Facebook has been overwhelmingly bigger all along, as an easy example.

Originally Posted by Samson

Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk.

Apples and oranges, really, when it comes to this, and the very fact that you're invoking Soros is pretty much an admission that you know that you don't actually have a case here but don't want to give up on your preferred fantasy, by the look of it.

Checkmite · 1st December 2023, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Which media matters’ campaign?

He must be referring to their *checks* one news article

jeremyp · 1st December 2023, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by HansMustermann

Not really. Twitter was already losing money, and was over 5 billion in debt. Which it still has to pay interest on even under Musk. That only got even worse after Musk saddled it with even more massive debt. The effect was pretty much like throwing a drowning man an anvil. To wit, IIRC it has to pay the banks about a billion a year. Even if Musk did nothing at all, it would sink and fast.

I think Twitter was on its way back to profit. It might have made one in 2022 if Musk hadn’t intervened. However, the extra $1 billion interest payments that Musk saddled it with could never have been covered.

dirtywick · 2nd December 2023, 07:29 AM

it's not unusual for companies to carry debt

The Great Zaganza · 2nd December 2023, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

it's not unusual for companies to carry debt

not in the age of vulture capitalism: buying something on credit, and then laden that company with the debt.

almost certain to sink it.

dirtywick · 2nd December 2023, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

not in the age of vulture capitalism: buying something on credit, and then laden that company with the debt.

almost certain to sink it.

sure sure, i'm just more pointing out that because twitter carried debt before the purchase that doesn't mean it was failing or would have in and of itself. i mean, jack dorsey wasn't on the news telling advertisers to **** off and complaining it would kill the company, so it wasn't quite that dire.

edit-

i think a bigger problem is that a lot of these social media sites don't have a very good option when the growth slows. twitter really couldn't get a whole lot bigger or grow at the pace it was forever. and what happens when it stagnates or declines?

The Great Zaganza · 2nd December 2023, 12:30 PM

None of these companies that plan to sell their product cheap to grow quick using debt, and then charge once they have a market dominance, make any sense whatsoever - it worked for Amazon and Netflix and literally no one else.

dirtywick · 2nd December 2023, 01:03 PM

and i think another big difference there too is amazon and netflix are at least offering a product. twitter is entirely funded by ads, and we sit through them because it's a cool site and we're having a good time. once i'm not having a good time, it's just watching a bunch of ads. that's a very difficult thing to keep going forever and almost entirely dependent on how they moderate the site.

catsmate · 2nd December 2023, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign.
X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player.
Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk.

Rubbish.

jeremyp · Yesterday, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by dirtywick

it's not unusual for companies to carry debt

It's also not unusual for companies to carry so much debt that it bankrupts them.

This debt has interest payments of $1 billion per year. Twitter's biggest ever profit was $1 billion.

jeremyp · Yesterday, 05:22 AM

First a clarification: Twitter had debt before Musk took over, but I agree it was manageable and it didn't prevent Twitter from making a profit in 2018 and 2019. I think Twitter would have made a small profit in 2022 as well but for the Musk shenanigans even with what debt it had at the time.

Originally Posted by dirtywick

and i think another big difference there too is amazon and netflix are at least offering a product. twitter is entirely funded by ads, and we sit through them because it's a cool site and we're having a good time. once i'm not having a good time, it's just watching a bunch of ads. that's a very difficult thing to keep going forever and almost entirely dependent on how they moderate the site.

Twitter offers a product: advertising space. Twitter's most important customers are its advertisers. Revenues from users are tiny by comparison. When Musk says "advertisers go **** yourselves" he means "customers go **** yourselves". Musk is blaming his customers for taking their business elsewhere when it is he who has made his product unattractive to them.

I still come across people who don't understand the relationship between social media companies and their users (if you aren't paying anything for a service, you are not the customer, you are the product). I think Musk is one of those people. He fundamentally fails to understand the business model of a social media company.

dirtywick · Yesterday, 05:44 AM

i should have been more clear that i meant twitter doesn't offer a product to it's average users. netflix has original content, amazon as well as well as a huge online store and shipping cost savings. which is all (currently, mostly, although they're starting to get greedier and greedier as well) ad free since i'm paying them money.

but i agree and it's why i was making the mall comparison earlier in the thread. the stores pay the leases for the space, the mall keeps the place orderly and attractive customers, customers come to have a nice time and shop. twitter functions in a different but very similar way and a mall that turned into an anything goes free speech zone covered in swastikas probably would fare about as well as twitter does.

Fast Eddie B · Yesterday, 06:58 AM

My wife and I enjoyed the TV show “Billions”. Fairly early on - the pilot as it turns out - one of the protagonists says, “But then again, what's the point of having **** you money, if you never say, **** you.”

Life imitating art?

Olmstead · Yesterday, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by jeremyp

I still come across people who don't understand the relationship between social media companies and their users (if you aren't paying anything for a service, you are not the customer, you are the product). I think Musk is one of those people. He fundamentally fails to understand the business model of a social media company.

Some services and products survive on donations. Musk being the beloved tech guro that he clearly is should have just set up a non-profit free speech alternative to Twitter and let it run amok, or more likely, let it run according to his whims and turn it into a weird echo chamber.

But I assume any neuron suggesting a non-profit organisation is immediatelly vaporised by the rest of his highly evolved brain.

Orphia Nay · Yesterday, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Andy_Ross

I want Elon to be involved in a conspiracy that needs a lengthy investigation.

I want it to be called Elongate.

That joke was old even before Musk himself tweeted it.

jeremyp · Today, 04:52 AM

Originally Posted by Olmstead

Some services and products survive on donations. Musk being the beloved tech guro that he clearly is should have just set up a non-profit free speech alternative to Twitter and let it run amok, or more likely, let it run according to his whims and turn it into a weird echo chamber.

He probably could have done it for less than $44 billion too.

1st December 2023, 08:28 AM	#1161
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 31,382	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross I want Elon to be involved in a conspiracy that needs a lengthy investigation. I want it to be called Elongate. I bet you're pleased with yourself. You should be
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK

1st December 2023, 10:00 AM	#1162
Andy_Ross Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 46,390	Originally Posted by jimbob I bet you're pleased with yourself. You should be Incredibly, I didn't even steal it from Twitter.
	__________________ Formerly known as Captain Swoop

1st December 2023, 10:10 AM	#1163
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 10,413	Originally Posted by Samson Here we have a clip where Musk is described as the greatest living American, and noting that there is no other country on this planet he could have done all this thing. Please let this be an agreed FACT so any pile on cogently refutes that notion. Megyn Kelly is a fan girl so let us all sneeer. https://youtu.be/jPCNJ0ygfT8?si=0lGYtm_ZV9Ox1txX Why would you think that this would pass muster? You're basically begging for others to just agree that you're totally right on a point where there's been vehement disagreement. Going further, it would be absurd to expect widespread agreement in the first place even without that, given the very nature of the claimed "fact." Much more could easily be said, but without that being addressed, I think that it would be practically meaningless.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

1st December 2023, 10:51 AM	#1164
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 11,699	Originally Posted by Aridas Why would you think that this would pass muster? You're basically begging for others to just agree that you're totally right on a point where there's been vehement disagreement. Going further, it would be absurd to expect widespread agreement in the first place even without that, given the very nature of the claimed "fact." Much more could easily be said, but without that being addressed, I think that it would be practically meaningless. To be more clear, I suggest it can be an agreed fact that only in America could an individual become the biggest player in media, electric cars, and space travel in the world.
	__________________ Jeremy Bamber never hurt a fly, Bambi slaughtered her parents and kids

1st December 2023, 11:57 AM	#1165
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 17,217	Originally Posted by Samson To be more clear, I suggest it can be an agreed fact that only in America could an individual become the biggest player in media, electric cars, and space travel in the world. Nope: 1. You're fundamentally clueless about what a fact is. We don't know that "only in America..." is true. It's unknowable. That's your opinion. 2. X is miniscule compared to large media companies such as Disney. It's not even the biggest social media company. (For icing on the cake, X is tanking since Musk acquired it.) Try again.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

1st December 2023, 12:04 PM	#1166
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 10,413	Originally Posted by Samson To be more clear, I suggest it can be an agreed fact that only in America could an individual become the biggest player in media, electric cars, and space travel in the world. Thank you for that narrowing. Even so, though, it's difficult to accept that "only" as a "fact." The path to such may be easiest in the US, but that doesn't eliminate the potential to do so elsewhere. I suppose that one could try to invoke technicalities about the space industry and the US' massive dominance there to try to make a small point, but that's basically grasping at straws to salvage a technicality. As it applies to Musk and the media, in particular, I have strong doubts about any attempt to label him as "the biggest player in media," regardless. He may have become the biggest upstart in media after he acquired Twitter and decided to try making running it all about him and his desires, but that's not the same thing as biggest player. Further, he's already squandered much of that and is on course to kill Twitter, which would remove even that questionable justification.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

1st December 2023, 12:34 PM	#1167
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 29,785	Originally Posted by Samson To be more clear, I suggest it can be an agreed fact that only in America could an individual become the biggest player in media, electric cars, and space travel in the world. Who is this person?
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

1st December 2023, 01:49 PM	#1168
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 11,699	Originally Posted by Aridas Thank you for that narrowing. Even so, though, it's difficult to accept that "only" as a "fact." The path to such may be easiest in the US, but that doesn't eliminate the potential to do so elsewhere. I suppose that one could try to invoke technicalities about the space industry and the US' massive dominance there to try to make a small point, but that's basically grasping at straws to salvage a technicality. As it applies to Musk and the media, in particular, I have strong doubts about any attempt to label him as "the biggest player in media," regardless. He may have become the biggest upstart in media after he acquired Twitter and decided to try making running it all about him and his desires, but that's not the same thing as biggest player. Further, he's already squandered much of that and is on course to kill Twitter, which would remove even that questionable justification. Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign. X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player. Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk.
	__________________ Jeremy Bamber never hurt a fly, Bambi slaughtered her parents and kids

1st December 2023, 02:12 PM	#1169
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 11,699	And now we learn how difficult nazis are to deal with, where Substack has the same problem as X. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...m_medium=email I suggest education must be broadened to better provide filters for people from age 2 and up. This will be the new age of enlightenment. It starts with science science and more science. Everything is science, including the human brain. Chomsky in his better days described deep structure of language. See that word structure, this is science. If X is a pirate ship, it is up to the traders to use their judgment. I suggest the above for discussion rather than the gospel according to me.
	__________________ Jeremy Bamber never hurt a fly, Bambi slaughtered her parents and kids Last edited by Samson; 1st December 2023 at 02:14 PM.

1st December 2023, 03:15 PM	#1170
junkshop Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Behind you Posts: 1,810	Originally Posted by Samson ...X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player... Nope. As of 2023, there are approximately 556 million active monthly users on X. There are 2.95 Billion Monthly Active Users on Facebook TikTok has over 1.677 billion users globally, out of which 1.1 billion are its monthly active users There are currently over 2.35 billion monthly active Instagram users...The platform is estimated to reach over 2.5 billion by the end of 2023 This site has a graph ranking social media platforms by monthly active users, as of October 2023. Twitter/X comes 12^th out of 15 (and they credit it with a higher MAU than my first link). Originally Posted by Samson ...Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk. I'm not aware of Soros owning a social media platform. I can't think why you would choose him as the antithesis of Musk...
	__________________ Hobbyist receipt-keeper, fake cockney Dick Van Dyke cosplayer, and forum boss Last edited by junkshop; 1st December 2023 at 03:31 PM.

1st December 2023, 03:33 PM	#1171
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 35,278	Originally Posted by Samson Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign. X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player. Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk. These things don’t have to be one or the other. Your whole reasoning about this looks like cult dynamics to me. Asked if there is anything to criticize in the dear leader you merely say that this leader is more deserving of veneration than some other one. Stop being a slave to internet daddies and think for yourself. Originally Posted by Samson And now we learn how difficult nazis are to deal with, where Substack has the same problem as X. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...m_medium=email I suggest education must be broadened to better provide filters for people from age 2 and up. This will be the new age of enlightenment. It starts with science science and more science. Everything is science, including the human brain. Chomsky in his better days described deep structure of language. See that word structure, this is science. If X is a pirate ship, it is up to the traders to use their judgment. I suggest the above for discussion rather than the gospel according to me. What on Earth has Chomsky describing deep structure of language got to do with anything? Besides, Chomskyan linguistics looks less and less like a good model for language these days. In fact it’s been picked apart for the last forty years or more.
	__________________ Слава Україні! **** Putin!

1st December 2023, 03:51 PM	#1172
Darat Lackey Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 112,595	Originally Posted by Samson Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign. X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player. Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk. Which media matters’ campaign?
	__________________ I wish I knew how to quit you

1st December 2023, 04:19 PM	#1173
varwoche Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 17,217	Originally Posted by Samson Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign. X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player. Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk. Soros?? You're playing Mad Libs again. Are you familiar with that game for kids, where random nouns and verbs are inserted into a narrative? Do you know the reason why the right-wing nuts who you rely on for "facts" wave Soros' name around so persistently and fervently? Thats because they, like your hero, are anti-semites. Why are you waving it around in this random fashion? It's not a good look.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.

1st December 2023, 04:47 PM	#1174
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 85,474	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross I want Elon to be involved in a conspiracy that needs a lengthy investigation. I want it to be called Elongate. Damn, that could go on forever.
	__________________ A million people can call the mountains a fiction Yet it need not trouble you as you stand atop them https://xkcd.com/154/

1st December 2023, 07:00 PM	#1175
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 6,036	Originally Posted by Darat It's all as nutty as a bag of nuts in a nut shop on a nut farm, in Nutville, during nut season, whether version 1 or version q. FTFY. :P
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

1st December 2023, 07:09 PM	#1176
novaphile Quester of Doglets Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sunny South Australia Posts: 6,036	Be careful, if certain 'members' discover that Shakespeare contains men dressing as women and women dressing as men... ... heads may asplode.
	__________________ We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.

1st December 2023, 07:11 PM	#1177
dirtywick Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,122	Originally Posted by Samson Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign. X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player. Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk. why? soros is the head of a secret jew cabal that runs the world. musk was defeated by beta cuck journalists
dirtywick Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,122

1st December 2023, 10:00 PM	#1178
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 10,413	Originally Posted by Samson Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign. To be perfectly clear about what that is, that's an example of flailing about for an excuse. Media Matters is a minor player in the big picture, at very best. Even when it comes to this "campaign" that you speak of, it would have pretty much no effect if it weren't for Musk and those he's been actively working to amplify pushing such and thus giving ample cause for credible concern. To point out something that eludes some again, the product that Twitter actually sells is access to and understanding of the users. Under Dorsey, the rules and moderation were fundamentally focused on maximizing access to the users. Under Musk? He's largely been doing the opposite and restricting access to the users, both directly and indirectly. Directly with policy and indirectly by making the environment more and more undesirable for both advertisers and users. THAT is why X might be finished so quickly. Not Media Matters. Originally Posted by Samson X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player. Addressed by others already. This claim is not factual. Facebook has been overwhelmingly bigger all along, as an easy example. Originally Posted by Samson Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk. Apples and oranges, really, when it comes to this, and the very fact that you're invoking Soros is pretty much an admission that you know that you don't actually have a case here but don't want to give up on your preferred fantasy, by the look of it.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon. Last edited by Aridas; 1st December 2023 at 10:50 PM.

1st December 2023, 10:48 PM	#1179
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 28,499	Originally Posted by Darat Which media matters’ campaign? He must be referring to their checks one news article
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

1st December 2023, 11:39 PM	#1180
jeremyp Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 3,824	Originally Posted by HansMustermann Not really. Twitter was already losing money, and was over 5 billion in debt. Which it still has to pay interest on even under Musk. That only got even worse after Musk saddled it with even more massive debt. The effect was pretty much like throwing a drowning man an anvil. To wit, IIRC it has to pay the banks about a billion a year. Even if Musk did nothing at all, it would sink and fast. I think Twitter was on its way back to profit. It might have made one in 2022 if Musk hadn’t intervened. However, the extra $1 billion interest payments that Musk saddled it with could never have been covered.

2nd December 2023, 07:29 AM	#1181
dirtywick Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,122	it's not unusual for companies to carry debt
dirtywick Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,122

2nd December 2023, 08:59 AM	#1182
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Photo Contest Winner Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 21,601	Originally Posted by dirtywick it's not unusual for companies to carry debt not in the age of vulture capitalism: buying something on credit, and then laden that company with the debt. almost certain to sink it.
	__________________ “Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.”

2nd December 2023, 11:56 AM	#1183
dirtywick Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,122	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza not in the age of vulture capitalism: buying something on credit, and then laden that company with the debt. almost certain to sink it. sure sure, i'm just more pointing out that because twitter carried debt before the purchase that doesn't mean it was failing or would have in and of itself. i mean, jack dorsey wasn't on the news telling advertisers to **** off and complaining it would kill the company, so it wasn't quite that dire. edit- i think a bigger problem is that a lot of these social media sites don't have a very good option when the growth slows. twitter really couldn't get a whole lot bigger or grow at the pace it was forever. and what happens when it stagnates or declines?
dirtywick Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,122	Last edited by dirtywick; 2nd December 2023 at 11:59 AM.

2nd December 2023, 12:30 PM	#1184
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Photo Contest Winner Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 21,601	None of these companies that plan to sell their product cheap to grow quick using debt, and then charge once they have a market dominance, make any sense whatsoever - it worked for Amazon and Netflix and literally no one else.
	__________________ “Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.”

2nd December 2023, 01:03 PM	#1185
dirtywick Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,122	and i think another big difference there too is amazon and netflix are at least offering a product. twitter is entirely funded by ads, and we sit through them because it's a cool site and we're having a good time. once i'm not having a good time, it's just watching a bunch of ads. that's a very difficult thing to keep going forever and almost entirely dependent on how they moderate the site.
dirtywick Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,122

2nd December 2023, 01:07 PM	#1186
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 29,785	Originally Posted by Samson Yes in the clip posted, he says X might be finished because of the media matters campaign. X has the broadest reach in Western media, so is arguably the biggest player. Soros or Musk for having in your foxhole, I favour Musk. Rubbish.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

Yesterday, 05:11 AM	#1187
jeremyp Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 3,824	Originally Posted by dirtywick it's not unusual for companies to carry debt It's also not unusual for companies to carry so much debt that it bankrupts them. This debt has interest payments of $1 billion per year. Twitter's biggest ever profit was $1 billion.

Yesterday, 05:22 AM	#1188
jeremyp Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 3,824	First a clarification: Twitter had debt before Musk took over, but I agree it was manageable and it didn't prevent Twitter from making a profit in 2018 and 2019. I think Twitter would have made a small profit in 2022 as well but for the Musk shenanigans even with what debt it had at the time. Originally Posted by dirtywick and i think another big difference there too is amazon and netflix are at least offering a product. twitter is entirely funded by ads, and we sit through them because it's a cool site and we're having a good time. once i'm not having a good time, it's just watching a bunch of ads. that's a very difficult thing to keep going forever and almost entirely dependent on how they moderate the site. Twitter offers a product: advertising space. Twitter's most important customers are its advertisers. Revenues from users are tiny by comparison. When Musk says "advertisers go ** yourselves" he means "customers go ** yourselves". Musk is blaming his customers for taking their business elsewhere when it is he who has made his product unattractive to them. I still come across people who don't understand the relationship between social media companies and their users (if you aren't paying anything for a service, you are not the customer, you are the product). I think Musk is one of those people. He fundamentally fails to understand the business model of a social media company.

Yesterday, 05:44 AM	#1189
dirtywick Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,122	i should have been more clear that i meant twitter doesn't offer a product to it's average users. netflix has original content, amazon as well as well as a huge online store and shipping cost savings. which is all (currently, mostly, although they're starting to get greedier and greedier as well) ad free since i'm paying them money. but i agree and it's why i was making the mall comparison earlier in the thread. the stores pay the leases for the space, the mall keeps the place orderly and attractive customers, customers come to have a nice time and shop. twitter functions in a different but very similar way and a mall that turned into an anything goes free speech zone covered in swastikas probably would fare about as well as twitter does.
dirtywick Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,122

Yesterday, 06:58 AM	#1190
Fast Eddie B Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA Posts: 7,743	My wife and I enjoyed the TV show “Billions”. Fairly early on - the pilot as it turns out - one of the protagonists says, “But then again, what's the point of having ** you money, if you never say, ** you.” Life imitating art?

Yesterday, 09:48 AM	#1191
Olmstead Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 1,601	Originally Posted by jeremyp I still come across people who don't understand the relationship between social media companies and their users (if you aren't paying anything for a service, you are not the customer, you are the product). I think Musk is one of those people. He fundamentally fails to understand the business model of a social media company. Some services and products survive on donations. Musk being the beloved tech guro that he clearly is should have just set up a non-profit free speech alternative to Twitter and let it run amok, or more likely, let it run according to his whims and turn it into a weird echo chamber. But I assume any neuron suggesting a non-profit organisation is immediatelly vaporised by the rest of his highly evolved brain.

Yesterday, 01:43 PM	#1192
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 44,236	Originally Posted by Andy_Ross I want Elon to be involved in a conspiracy that needs a lengthy investigation. I want it to be called Elongate. That joke was old even before Musk himself tweeted it.

Today, 04:52 AM	#1193
jeremyp Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 3,824	Originally Posted by Olmstead Some services and products survive on donations. Musk being the beloved tech guro that he clearly is should have just set up a non-profit free speech alternative to Twitter and let it run amok, or more likely, let it run according to his whims and turn it into a weird echo chamber. He probably could have done it for less than $44 billion too.