Continuation Transwomen are not women - part 13

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Darat

Nope. There is nothing binding in the court's decision to use she and her in this case to refer to the murdered trans child that the murderers referred to with the pronoun "it".

I never said there was anything binding in it. You're imagining things.

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by Darat

Nope. There is nothing binding in the court's decision to use she and her in this case to refer to the murdered trans child that the murderers referred to with the pronoun "it".

At least the texts they seemed to refer to "Boy Y," which (no surprise) caused me some confusion unless the court or a reporter changed "it" to "Boy Y," (which would be misgendering), or they referred to the child's birth name, and they decided to replace the deadname with "Boy Y."

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by Brainster

At least the texts they seemed to refer to "Boy Y," which (no surprise) caused me some confusion unless the court or a reporter changed "it" to "Boy Y," (which would be misgendering), or they referred to the child's birth name, and they decided to replace the deadname with "Boy Y."

There seems to be some confusion here: "Boy Y" is one of the two accused, "Girl X" is the other one.

Also, Darat is wrong: it was only the boy who referred to Brianna as "it", the girl used she/her pronouns for Ghey.

[Brainster]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

There seems to be some confusion here: "Boy Y" is one of the two accused, "Girl X" is the other one.

Also, Darat is wrong: it was only the boy who referred to Brianna as "it", the girl used she/her pronouns for Ghey.

Looking back I see that they were discussing killing Boy M, which is where I got confused.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Brainster

Looking back I see that they were discussing killing Boy M, which is where I got confused.

Which is not the kid they ended up killing. They had a list of kids I think.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

There seems to be some confusion here: "Boy Y" is one of the two accused, "Girl X" is the other one.

Also, Darat is wrong: it was only the boy who referred to Brianna as "it", the girl used she/her pronouns for Ghey.

Did the girl correct the use of "it" - if not then I'm sorry but I am going to continue to say they referred to their victim as "it".

[Darat]

Originally Posted by theprestige

I never said there was anything binding in it. You're imagining things.

Sorry for assuming your post was meant to mean somthing.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Darat

Sorry for assuming your post was meant to mean somthing.

It was meant to mean exactly what it did mean. I'm sorry you decided it was supposed to mean something else, instead of just reading what I wrote.

[Matthew Best]

Originally Posted by Darat

Did the girl correct the use of "it" - if not then I'm sorry but I am going to continue to say they referred to their victim as "it".

OK. If one person uses a term and other people don't correct them, then you can say they used the term too? I guess in this mixed up muddled up world that makes as much sense as anything. I would have thought the more problematic part of this whole situation was the fact that one or other of them, or both, killed Ghey - not what pronouns one or other of them, or both, used. But here we are - this is at least the right thread for this nonsense. Though this whole sidebar probably belongs in Trials and Errors.

[Samson]

Sall Grover is fighting a vital legal battle to keep autogynephiles off her app giggle which is for women.
About min 39 on this interview she reveals an absolutist position like Putin, no medicine or surgery ever for sex dysphoria.
A brilliant articulate woman.
Is she a transphobe or a voice from the near future?

https://youtu.be/zPIl4vcVsQ8?si=Xt5o1sOPDiDwLE7t

[gnome]

Originally Posted by Samson

Sall Grover is fighting a vital legal battle to keep autogynephiles off her app giggle which is for women.
About min 39 on this interview she reveals an absolutist position like Putin, no medicine or surgery ever for sex dysphoria.
A brilliant articulate woman.
Is she a transphobe or a voice from the near future?

https://youtu.be/zPIl4vcVsQ8?si=Xt5o1sOPDiDwLE7t

Are you a fan of absolutist positions? Usually that does not go hand in hand with "brilliant" and "articulate". Those features usually require the ability to handle nuance.

I'm not sure Putin is a great model for policy on social issues.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by gnome

Are you a fan of absolutist positions? Usually that does not go hand in hand with "brilliant" and "articulate". Those features usually require the ability to handle nuance.

I'm not sure Putin is a great model for policy on social issues.

I think the Iatrogenic nature of transitioning is absolutely fascinating.
Absolutist positions can help society in some cases.
No pedophilia for example, even though one can finesse ways into it as the Italans do with 12 as consenting age. I think heavy doses of estrogen killed my brother at 53, who prescribed the hormones and why?
This should be a sensible discussion and I am not a nazi.

[gnome]

If you're referring to pedophilia acting to abuse children, that has a victim. I have little problem with an absolutist position (or close) against victimizing someone.

Refusing medical transition in all cases, includes adult individuals. What is the justification?

Also still wondering why you chose to compare to Putin.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by gnome

If you're referring to pedophilia acting to abuse children, that has a victim. I have little problem with an absolutist position (or close) against victimizing someone.

Refusing medical transition in all cases, includes adult individuals. What is the justification?

Also still wondering why you chose to compare to Putin.

Putin recently banned all gender medical technology.
Sall Grover says there are no circumstances where medical technology is the correct approach.
Is that clear enough?
The existence of the technology is dragnetting thousands of mentally ill children into the nightmare. Adults are also screwing their families with their secret cross dressing to transitioning narrative.
Check out the disgusting narcissist Rachel Levine.

[gnome]

Originally Posted by Samson

Putin recently banned all gender medical technology.

Putin also banned propaganda advocating same-sex relationships. I'm not sure you really want his name attached.

[Emily's Cat]

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

OK. If one person uses a term and other people don't correct them, then you can say they used the term too? I guess in this mixed up muddled up world that makes as much sense as anything. I would have thought the more problematic part of this whole situation was the fact that one or other of them, or both, killed Ghey - not what pronouns one or other of them, or both, used. But here we are - this is at least the right thread for this nonsense. Though this whole sidebar probably belongs in Trials and Errors.

Another challenging aspect of this case is the narrative of it being an anti-transgender hate crime. It's true that the victim was transgender; but the two accused individuals had a list of several other potential victims, none of which were transgender. It seems from their communications that their preferred target was not transgender, and that the ultimate victim was a "back up". This suggests that the victim was not targeted specifically because of their identification as transgender, but for some other reason that was shared among the rest of the potential victims on the list of the accused.

[Emily's Cat]

Originally Posted by gnome

If you're referring to pedophilia acting to abuse children, that has a victim. I have little problem with an absolutist position (or close) against victimizing someone.

Refusing medical transition in all cases, includes adult individuals. What is the justification?

Also still wondering why you chose to compare to Putin.

Samson is somewhat mischaracterizing Grover's position. The app Giggle was designed to be a service for females exclusively. Males are, by design, disallowed to participate in the service. Grover's position is not to "refuse" transition. Grover's position is that even if a male has undertaken hormonal or surgical means to disguise their innate sex, they remain male. And as males, they are not allowed to take part in Giggle.

[smartcooky]

Originally Posted by Samson

Putin recently banned all gender medical technology.

While I agree with some (not all) of what you have been saying here, I'd rather you not destroy the credibility of your arguments (and by association, mine) by referencing Putin. When you start invoking things that Putin is doing as justification for your position, you have lost the plot.

[JoeMorgue]

Yeah this is like mentioning Hitler in a discussion of the pro and cons of anti-smoking in public policies.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by gnome

Putin also banned propaganda advocating same-sex relationships. I'm not sure you really want his name attached.

This is at the heart of the problem. Same sex attracted are being sterilized due to the false signals of the Conversion therapy bans. Stella O"malley made a completely coherent presentation to NZ Parliament select committee and was ignored. We now have a law that forces parents to allow access to sterilizing drugs by their children.

Here is a clip I just watched patiently explaining this in Australia

https://youtu.be/XNHXRizonrI?si=vZ287zFJ9QOt36mJ

Only the first few seconds are needed to understand the theme

I am merely noting that Putin has a policy on trans, that does not mean I think he is right on same sex and waging war.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Samson is somewhat mischaracterizing Grover's position. The app Giggle was designed to be a service for females exclusively. Males are, by design, disallowed to participate in the service. Grover's position is not to "refuse" transition. Grover's position is that even if a male has undertaken hormonal or surgical means to disguise their innate sex, they remain male. And as males, they are not allowed to take part in Giggle.

Grover does say as I characterized, minute 39 and on in the clip I posted. It is the first occasion I have seen an activist take this absolutist approach, and after watching my brother go from secret cross dresser to full on hormones, then death, I will not say she is necessarily wrong.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by smartcooky

While I agree with some (not all) of what you have been saying here, I'd rather you not destroy the credibility of your arguments (and by association, mine) by referencing Putin. When you start invoking things that Putin is doing as justification for your position, you have lost the plot.

I mentioned Putin as an absolutist on medicalisation. He might be contrasted with Iran, where medicalisation is the only way for gay youth to express themselves.
But point taken, there may be an absolutist nation that bans medicalisation but encourages full same sex expression of love.

[Roboramma]

Originally Posted by smartcooky

While I agree with some (not all) of what you have been saying here, I'd rather you not destroy the credibility of your arguments (and by association, mine) by referencing Putin. When you start invoking things that Putin is doing as justification for your position, you have lost the plot.

+10⁸⁸

[varwoche]

Originally Posted by Samson

Grover does say as I characterized, minute 39 and on in the clip I posted. It is the first occasion I have seen an activist take this absolutist approach, and after watching my brother go from secret cross dresser to full on hormones, then death, I will not say she is necessarily wrong.

I'd bet every dollar I own that you're twisting reality beyond recognition.

Seeing as most everything you post is false, I don't think I'm out on a limb here.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by varwoche

I'd bet every dollar I own that you're twisting reality beyond recognition.

Seeing as most everything you post is false, I don't think I'm out on a limb here.

Inability to read a transcript, here it is from Sall Grover:

There are people who have gender dysphoria obviously and that is a medical condition.
I think that it is a scandal that its ever been treated medically and psychologically in any way other than helping that person accept reality that they're male or female.
I dont think that it should ever be a treatment to modify ones body to something they're not.

Now, given that the Australian government is funding an autogynephile to take her to the high Court, estimated cost to her and her crowd fund, 1 million dollars, so that he can join her female only club, I think that should be part of the mix and her opinion appraised with that in mind.

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