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13th March 2017, 08:41 AM | #1601 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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13th March 2017, 08:42 AM | #1602 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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13th March 2017, 08:52 AM | #1603 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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13th March 2017, 07:28 PM | #1604 |
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Because Muslims threaten no one, and seek to live in Peace with God (extremists aside, as always). I get your point, but fascists directly threaten the rights and well being of large chunks of the population. Their philosophy is based on hate; there really are no kind fascists, as there are kind Muslims. A few Islamophobes may irrationally think Muslims are a universal threat, but a fascist can be empirically demonstrated to be.
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13th March 2017, 07:40 PM | #1605 |
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That's a fair question, and has been raised many times in different ways. I think the universally abhorrent nature of a fascist puts them into a unique category, shared with maybe child-raping advocates. It's not really a question of what one personally thinks is right or wrong; fascists are wrongness personified and the declared enemy every principle America is based on.
Hopefully you cannot demonstrate that I am the enemy of free people everywhere who unabashedly advocates denying the human rights of others? I can do so (arguably) with a fascist. |
13th March 2017, 08:19 PM | #1606 |
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13th March 2017, 08:35 PM | #1607 |
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Or gay people, atheists, people of different religions, communists, capitalists... Basically anyone who has a worldview that is profoundly different from other peoples.
Cripes, just check out the political forums here. Just the Democrat/Republican divide generates a huge amount of animosity, each believing the other to be dishonest, corrupt and evil. |
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14th March 2017, 10:43 AM | #1608 |
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If you acted on your view and I was there, I would physically step in to stop you as I believe violence against speech is wrong.
I'm not a Nazi or a fascist, how would you react to me? If you wouldn't attack me as well it seems you ate only willing to attack if you know you will win, cowardly. If you would then your group of people you would attack extends beyond fascists and nazis. Your philosophy seems to put you in quite the moral conundrum. |
14th March 2017, 11:02 AM | #1609 |
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Very valid points when someone is trying to find the line, but the universal abhorrence of the fascist puts them in their own category. Gays, Republicans etc may be seen as 'bad', but none present a demonstrable and acknowledged threat to the rights and freedoms of others; I think that makes a difference.
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14th March 2017, 11:09 AM | #1610 |
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14th March 2017, 11:21 AM | #1611 |
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14th March 2017, 11:27 AM | #1612 |
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Hold up- what do you think my view is? Did you read a little and fill in the blanks to suit your narrative? I don't advocate attacking anyone. And situationally, I would need more info to answer anyway.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
ETA: you asked in a recent post if I realize that I 'ate Orman and outgunned', could you clarify that? |
14th March 2017, 11:31 AM | #1613 |
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14th March 2017, 11:40 AM | #1614 |
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14th March 2017, 11:47 AM | #1615 |
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14th March 2017, 11:57 AM | #1616 |
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First, I don't acknowledge the "special" here at all. But ignoring that for a moment, you think it's okay to violently suppress the speech of Group X if they're universally abhorred?
If so, it seems that such suppression (if successful) would imply that nobody would be allowed to defend Group X's ideology, so it should be pretty easy to get near-universal abhorrence of them. For pretty much any Group X. |
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14th March 2017, 12:06 PM | #1617 |
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14th March 2017, 12:16 PM | #1618 |
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14th March 2017, 12:33 PM | #1619 |
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Christianity: Suffer not a witch to live, crusades, heretics... etc. No religion is free of its own bigotry.
It's not islamaphobia to recognize that the quran includes the concepts of jihaad against infidels, nor to recognize the risk to our way of life presented by adherents to sharia law. It's just as valid a presumption as claiming that all fascists are a threat. Or more to the point, just as *invalid*. Why don't you back up your claim? Please empirically demonstrate that fascism is a universal threat. Once you've accomplished that, please provide us with a perfect method for identifying a fascist, without the risk of any false positives. |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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14th March 2017, 12:33 PM | #1620 |
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14th March 2017, 12:34 PM | #1621 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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14th March 2017, 12:34 PM | #1622 |
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I don't say anything about unacceptable per se, nor anything about speech (I do not consider the OP to have anything to do with free speech). Assault is usually illegal (barring self-defense etc) and an assailant would have to face the music if charged. But I think that fighting a fascist is an extenuating circumstance, as opposed to fighting for other reasons, so to answer your question: no, as 'suppression', 'acceptable', 'speech' and 'forgivable' are not any part of what I said.
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14th March 2017, 12:38 PM | #1623 |
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You just want to have your cake and eat it too.
If you take any action you wouldn't if the person wasn't a "fascist" you are providing support for the attack. You don't get to just let others do your dirty work for you then claim because it wasn't your knuckles hitting the face that you don't support the attack. Wait a second, elitist cowards who let uneducated thugs do their violence for them. ...sounds like a certain group that was known for some pretty nasty things a while back. |
14th March 2017, 12:39 PM | #1624 |
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Jewish people were cast as universally abhorred by a pretty solid chunk of german citizens. How well did that turn out?
FFS, throughout history, all kinds of people have been classified as "universally" abhorred. Heathens and infidels, gay people, black people, jewish people (repeatedly), Japanese and Korean (depending on which side of the sea you're on). Communists. Socialists. Colonialists. The list goes on and on. |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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14th March 2017, 12:46 PM | #1625 |
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Maybe the living memory of what it was like to live under a Fascist/Nazi regime dies off, a revival of Fascism becomes more likely. Maybe we have a new generation,that did not grow up with family members who could tell them how bad it was,who are more likely to fall for fascism.
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14th March 2017, 12:48 PM | #1626 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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14th March 2017, 12:48 PM | #1627 |
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14th March 2017, 12:57 PM | #1628 |
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There is no Antimemetics Division. |
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14th March 2017, 01:35 PM | #1629 |
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14th March 2017, 02:32 PM | #1630 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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14th March 2017, 06:44 PM | #1631 |
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Agreed. Sidebar- are we down to talking about the rights of...witches...now?
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Originally Posted by Merriam-Webster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascis...ism_of_fascism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism |
14th March 2017, 06:46 PM | #1632 |
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14th March 2017, 06:51 PM | #1633 |
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14th March 2017, 06:54 PM | #1634 |
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14th March 2017, 07:14 PM | #1635 |
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Agreed, but AFAIK we are not talking about using violence to suppress speech.
Quote:
That was not about you, I was referencing my earlier comment. Didn't mean to suggest you were a fascist, apologies if it came across that way. |
14th March 2017, 08:33 PM | #1636 |
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Yes. Something like 40,000 of them have been killed. I (and hopefully others) feel that their killing was not justified, despite the abhorrent practices of which they were accused.
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14th March 2017, 08:37 PM | #1637 |
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14th March 2017, 09:03 PM | #1638 |
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Agreed. But...wait for it...we are in the 21st century. Are you suggesting that a 16th century mindset is comparable to this discussion? Perhaps we could compare the political musings of cavemen while we're at it?
I don't recall supporting forcible suppression of anyone by anyone else. Or suppressing speech. Or any other words put in my mouth. ETA: witches- I would opine that that was a different issue altogether, what with the accused not actually having done what they were being accused of. You know, witches not actually existing and all. Do you mean to analogize fascists with fictitious creatures here? Or are you saying fascists don't exist and are victims of...witch hunts? ETA again: You assert more than once that I support forcible suppression of speech and/or people. May I ask what you are talking about? In context of the OP, I see the events as more of a mutual fight between natural enemies, and the anarchists jumping in because it's kind of their thing to bust **** up. I don't actually think anyone was suppressing Milo or his speech. |
15th March 2017, 08:33 AM | #1639 |
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I don't think your argument holds any water. It's special pleading. You've decided that "fascism" is such a threat to what you view as the US way of life, that you feel preemptive violence against US citizens is justifiable and excusable. Then all you have to do is proclaim that a person is a "fascist" and you feel that attacking them with violence is A-Okay.
No matter how you church it up, you've taken a stance that *some* US citizens should be denied their rights as US citizens, and that violence should be enacted against them because of their beliefs. YOU are a threat to the US way of life. |
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15th March 2017, 08:36 AM | #1640 |
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You've supported the use of preemptive violence against people that you've decided are fascists. Not based on what they've done, but on what they've said. You have supported and lauded aggression and assault as an appropriate response to speech in order to stop "those people" from engaging in "that sort of" speech.
What do you think your stance is? Please clarify. ETA: I'm basing my responses on these posts of yours: All of these boil down to "Attacking people is wrong, unless you're attacking a 'fascist', then it's ok". |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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