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24th February 2017, 11:41 AM | #1241 |
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Belief system; private property does not exist, breaks window.
Reality; private property does exist, guy who breaks window gets arrested. Fin |
24th February 2017, 11:42 AM | #1242 |
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24th February 2017, 11:44 AM | #1243 |
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It's axiomatic, caveman. Property is owned by people.
Let's be honest with each other, here: the only reason you're engaged in this ridiculous rhetorical dishonesty of yours is because you want to be able to justify the destruction of property as an expression of disagreement against your political opponents. You are unwilling to back down from that and also unwilling to agree that the people who opposed Milo were wrong to do these things because -- let's face it -- you hate Milo and thus need to cheer his opposition no matter what they do. And that's YOUR belief system.
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24th February 2017, 12:51 PM | #1244 |
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24th February 2017, 12:57 PM | #1245 |
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24th February 2017, 12:58 PM | #1246 |
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I keep on telling you people, arguing with a devout anarchist is just like arguing with a religious fanatatic......
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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24th February 2017, 12:59 PM | #1247 |
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24th February 2017, 01:04 PM | #1248 |
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Just so these random accusations don't go unanswered, even though I'm usually just ignoring them because they aren't worth wasting time with, but it's really getting out of hand:
Of course it's patently obvious that the dishonesty is yours. Notice how you went from claiming that the objects which you claim to have been destroyed belonged to a specific group of people, which you refused to identify. Then when pointed out that this was just random belief system you change to "property is owned by people" in a general sense. Is this why you refused to identify the people you claimed owned the objects? So you could later support your belief system by a generalization sleigh of hand? "My God exists and all other deities are false." "That's just your belief system." "It is axiomatic that some deity exists." Note how, even if we accept the latter statement, it still doesn't support the first one. |
24th February 2017, 01:05 PM | #1249 |
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24th February 2017, 01:08 PM | #1250 |
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24th February 2017, 01:10 PM | #1251 |
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I'm not the one pretending to not understand the concept of ownership.
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Oh, really? What am I fanatical about, specifically? Let's see how deep your misunderstanding runs. |
24th February 2017, 01:13 PM | #1252 |
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What do you base this belief on?
The logical fallacy you display here is called "equivocation", which means you substitute one definition for another. For a window to be "destroyed" in the common sense it only needs to be rendered unusable as a window, it's not necessary to break apart its molecules or atoms. |
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24th February 2017, 01:16 PM | #1253 |
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Ok let's have fun, shall we:
There we go. Your first post above, highlighted, denies that windows are the property of people, so you agreed that this was my claim. You edited your post after I quoted you, which leads to this hilarious bit:
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Stop lying. Seriously. |
24th February 2017, 01:19 PM | #1254 |
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24th February 2017, 01:23 PM | #1255 |
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24th February 2017, 01:23 PM | #1256 |
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24th February 2017, 01:24 PM | #1257 |
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24th February 2017, 01:26 PM | #1258 |
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24th February 2017, 01:35 PM | #1259 |
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24th February 2017, 01:38 PM | #1260 |
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As anyone can determine one alternative belief system to yours, which has been provided, is that the window was the property of the protesters. Since this clearly still has "people owning windows" it is obvious that the belief system you promoted is not just "people owning windows" in a general sense.
As anyone can also determine you snipped the highlighted part from the post when you quoted it and set up your switcheroo with the "what belief system". Besides, even if your belief system was merely that things are "owned" by people it would still just be a random belief system without basis in fact. It's just moving from "my God is the only true deity" to "some deity exists". |
24th February 2017, 01:39 PM | #1261 |
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24th February 2017, 01:50 PM | #1262 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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24th February 2017, 01:50 PM | #1263 |
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Although most people think of religion in terms of belief in gods, I think that's too narrow. I like to define religion as a shared set of arational (not necessarily irrational) beliefs that provide strong motivation for a wide variety of behaviors. In that sense, you're absolutely correct, those are religions.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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24th February 2017, 01:54 PM | #1264 |
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Yes there is. A broken window is "destroyed". Your claim that it's not "destroyed" because the molecules that composed it still exists is an example of equivocation. It's destroyed in the sense that it's no longer useful for the purpose it was created.
But let's move forward. Take "private" away from "private property". What gives you the right to destroy property, and what purpose is served by it? |
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24th February 2017, 01:56 PM | #1265 |
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Agreed: a broken window is not longer a window. A chopped down tree is no longer a tree. A burned down house is no longer a house. Regardless of whether the molecules themselves still exist, the item that the collection of molecules previous were no longer is.
A blown-up person is no longer a person. |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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24th February 2017, 01:59 PM | #1266 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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24th February 2017, 02:14 PM | #1267 |
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" you are charged with murder, how do you plead?"
"Murder? Ha ha. No, I merely molecularly rearranged his body." "You blew him up with dynamite!" "That's a value judgment. I prefer to say I liberated him from state-worship." "I sentence you to life imprisonment." "Bare assertion fallacy! Your courts are mere social constructs!" ... "Hey, let me out of this prison!" "What prison? Why do you make such a value judgment?" |
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24th February 2017, 02:14 PM | #1268 |
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24th February 2017, 02:14 PM | #1269 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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24th February 2017, 02:22 PM | #1270 |
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Hamilton 68: Tracking Russian internet propaganda |
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24th February 2017, 02:25 PM | #1271 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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24th February 2017, 02:27 PM | #1272 |
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I missed your post, and I'm not responding to TBD because of being on my ignore list.
The "belief" in the Christian God was one of the bases for the entire medieval Spain's legal and judiciary system. It is a fundamental element of the social contract that Spanish citizens were bound by. If you just randomly decide that you don't "believe" in God and start saying things expressing such disbelief...you're going to end up in jail for blasphemy or something similar pretty quickly. Any rhetorical arguments about whether or not God is "just a belief" or whatever it is you're spouting is completely irrelevant and without standing.
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24th February 2017, 02:29 PM | #1273 |
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
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24th February 2017, 02:30 PM | #1274 |
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24th February 2017, 02:33 PM | #1275 |
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24th February 2017, 02:42 PM | #1276 |
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Nope. Wrong. Wrongity-wrong-wrong. If a window is broken, then it cannot perform its intended purpose (ie, permitting light to pass through while obstructing the flow of air). This can indeed be measured empirically. Whether or not this destruction is a good thing or a bad thing may be a value judgment, but that it can no longer perform the function for which it was designed and built is indeed easy to determine objectively and empirically.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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24th February 2017, 02:59 PM | #1277 |
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24th February 2017, 03:06 PM | #1278 |
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24th February 2017, 03:11 PM | #1279 |
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A distinction of no relevance to the discussion.
Again, you appear to be trying not to communicate anything of value while trying to drag on the exchange for as long as possible. How about answering the question of what is accomplished with property destruction and how you determine you have a right to do it? |
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24th February 2017, 03:14 PM | #1280 |
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You're confusing determining if it can perform some function with determining its intended purpose. Depends on who you ask. The bank might have intended for it to have a certain purpose, yet the protester who broke it clearly disagreed. You can not objectively measure purpose.
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