|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
3rd April 2017, 09:03 AM | #1881 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
|
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
3rd April 2017, 09:06 AM | #1882 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
Given that in this and other threads, you've taken the position that you find preemptive violence against certain beliefs to be acceptable, and believe it should be sufficient to excuse some of those violent actors from the law, yes, I am under the impression that you support the rioters.
In regards to your now repeated "goodthink" comments... you seem to be willfully overlooking that fact that some people are using violence and aggression in an attempt to control beliefs - they're trying to intimidate other people into not thinking things that they (the intimidators) have deemed unacceptable thoughts. Maybe you should go back and review the basis of "goodthink" before you bury yourself in an argument that doesn't support you. |
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
3rd April 2017, 11:57 AM | #1883 |
High Priest of Ed
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,871
|
|
__________________
Hamilton 68: Tracking Russian internet propaganda |
|
3rd April 2017, 04:22 PM | #1884 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
|
3rd April 2017, 04:23 PM | #1885 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
|
4th April 2017, 07:50 PM | #1886 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
What exactly was the empty rhetoric, appeal to emotion, or antisocial behavior of the Orange county protesters? According to reports linked upthread, ten or twelve protesters formed the Wall of DoomTM and were promptly shoved out of the way (assaulted and battered) by the pro-Trump marchers. Another pro-Trump marcher attacked a journalist and a protestor sprayed him with pepper spray to defend against his violence. I guess you mean the pro-Trump marchers' empty rhetoric and antisocial behavior?
|
4th April 2017, 07:58 PM | #1887 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Oh, you pro-underage-independent-contractor advocates are all the same. Can't you see the insidious nature of these adolescent bourgeoisie? Hurling their Lugenpresse propaganda on the porch everyday like a Molotov? I would have taken mine out long ago if not that the vile little creature of the night gets up before me. One day, capitalist swine...one day...
|
4th April 2017, 08:10 PM | #1888 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Then you have forgotten to read this and other threads.
Quote:
|
5th April 2017, 08:36 AM | #1889 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
|
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
5th April 2017, 12:44 PM | #1890 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,624
|
"Odd" is one way to put it.
Agreed. Using "force" would include deliberately blocking someones path whether you touch them or not. "Force" was mentioned as being part of the definition of battery, I believe. Deliberately block my path on the sidewalk and see how long it takes for me to push through you. The "wall" people were looking for exactly what they got - a physical confrontation that they could try and exploit in the media. They are, once again, the agitators. They are the soccer players who roll on the ground after tripping over their own shoelaces, hoping for a penalty. I guess I love banging my head against walls. |
__________________
Why bother? |
|
5th April 2017, 02:09 PM | #1891 |
High Priest of Ed
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,871
|
|
__________________
Hamilton 68: Tracking Russian internet propaganda |
|
5th April 2017, 09:59 PM | #1892 |
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,899
|
Indeed.
In what I'll call BlocTards Vs. TrumpTards: Huntington Beach Edition, You can clearly see who the instigators are. Should the TrumpTards have kept cooler heads and taken the high road? Sure, but They're TrumpTards who've been exposed the media hype and as such are ready to fight at the slightest provocation. Good thing the BlocTards didn't disappoint. In this pic we see a person who I'll call BlocTard #1, retaliating against a Trumptard after their wall was breached. This led to the first scuffle where the TrumpTard Event Organizer was pepper sprayed. As the second scuffle starts to develop, we see BlocTard #2, pepper spray already in hand, moving into position. Back to BlocTard #1 (center left with red garment in hand), having struck one TrumpTard, is ready to have a go at another, this time wisely picking one roughly twice her size. Notice BlocTard #3 entering the frame at foreground left, pepper spray in hand. BlocTard #2 is still holding station in the background. BlocTard #1 strikes the TrumpTard as BlocTard #3 (foreground) prepares to spray. [/url] Predictably, BlocTard #1 is knocked on her ass. With BlocTard #1 on her ass and the TrumpTard moving off: [/url] And a second TrumpTard reigning in his colleague: [/url] BlocTards #2 and #3 strike. No need to show the outcome, which we know has BlocTard #3 tackled and released while BlocTard #2 attempting an escape only to be clotheslined and subjected to a barrage of girly punches at the hands of another TrumpTard. Preponderance of the evidence shows: While it's true the TrumpTards did in fact push through the BlocTard wall and in doing so they very likely initiated hostilities, the record shows that the BlocTards acted in retaliation rather than in self defense. This is confirmed by the actions of BlocTard #1, who is seen as the aggressor at least twice during the incident. Additionally it is noted that BlocTards #2 and #3, who weren't physically engaged with any TrumpTard, used their pepper spray in retaliation for BlocTard #1 getting knocked on her ass. This I believe is an illegal use of pepper spray under California law. OC authorities filed no charges, FWIW. Verdict: Everyone's a 'tard here, especially me for posting this **** like it'll make a flying **** of a difference. |
__________________
|
|
5th April 2017, 11:53 PM | #1893 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Do you have a link for the vid that you pulled the stills from? I found the first (ANTIFA rocked), but not the second. Your narrative contains quite a bit of info not pictured, for instance that the protesters were retaliating and that these events were related to the Wall of Doom (they took place at different times and places). From what I can see, the stills are from the immediate aftermath of the pro-Trump attack that ended in the pepper spraying.
|
6th April 2017, 05:53 AM | #1894 |
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,899
|
Sure.
The grabs are from the video you link to in this post: Which was a direct consequence and entirely related to the provocation by the BlocTard's attempt to interfere with the TrumpTard's rally. The Trumptards, their feeble little egos fueled up on media fed BS like the wannabe "anarchist" attack at UC Berkeley, were spoiling for a fight and the BlocTards willingly obliged simply by showing up. Nobody can claim self defense here and there was aggression on both sides especially when we can see BlocTard #1 going out of her way to slap two people and the illegal use of pepper spray that followed in retaliation. They're all a bunch of idiots. |
__________________
|
|
6th April 2017, 07:17 AM | #1895 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Thanks, thought it might be but needed clarification to further comment.
Originally Posted by AJM8125
This is important: nowhere in the reporting or videos is it claimed that this was retaliatory, and the full video and reporting consistently show defense against Trumptard 0. You somehow claim it was in retaliation for The Menacing Wall of DoomTM. Reporting on the MWoD is, from Mercury:
Originally Posted by Mercury News
Are you relying on other reporting here that asserts that the Blocktards who made the MWoD are the same as the pepper sprayers, or even knew about the MWoD (plausibly another group and out of sight of the peppers), and most importantly, that they were motivated by retaliation as opposed to defense, as the OCWeekly video shows?
Originally Posted by AJM8125
|
6th April 2017, 07:37 AM | #1896 |
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,033
|
|
6th April 2017, 08:40 AM | #1897 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,425
|
|
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
|
6th April 2017, 08:55 AM | #1898 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
|
6th April 2017, 09:00 AM | #1899 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 56,425
|
|
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
|
6th April 2017, 04:58 PM | #1900 |
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,899
|
Well if I'm wrong about it being related to the wall o' doom then I stand corrected but my point still stands and that is both sides are idiots.
Sorry, no. In California you're allowed to use pepper spray ONLY for SELF defense. You're not allowed to use it in defense of others. The only legal use observed in the OC video was when BlocTard #2 was pinned down on the beach and being beaten by the Trumptard. Everything else was illegal and the BlocTards doing the spraying are lucky they weren't brought up on charges. |
__________________
|
|
6th April 2017, 06:29 PM | #1901 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Agreed, nitwits around. Especially, IIRC, Cali is a CCW state, and things could have gotten a whole lot more serious very quickly.
Originally Posted by AJM8125
Originally Posted by LACBA
|
7th April 2017, 05:03 AM | #1902 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Forgot link for above reference to LAC Bar Assn:
https://www.smartlaw.org/index.cfm?f...03&PanelID=415 |
7th April 2017, 07:01 AM | #1903 |
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,899
|
No. California is decidedly NOT a state where a CCL can be easily obtained. Rules for issue vary by county but the majority of them require the applicant to show "good cause" for the CCL. Self defense, for most counties, is not good cause. Some Rural counties will issue but for instance where I live ( San Francisco Bay Area) it's all but impossible.
The law in California is fairly straightforward. Penal Code 22810:
Quote:
Defense of another person must be within reason. Say you're walking on the beach with a companion and one of you is suddenly assaulted, it is reasonable to assume that the other other person is just as much danger as the one being attacked so yes, pepper spray may be used in an act of self defense with the added benefit of defending another person. Say you're walking on the beach watching your friend slap TrumpTards? You get the idea. |
__________________
|
|
7th April 2017, 08:39 AM | #1904 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
I wouldn't think it's easy in any urban area, but a CCL is county issued and Statewide valid, with exceptions. Trump supporters could plausibly live in rural counties and drive to Huntington for the march.
Originally Posted by AJM8125
Originally Posted by CALCRIM 3470
But as you say, knuckleheads all. Thirty or less protesters getting rowdy with two thousand marchers is just poor judgement. Attacking a small group of protesters so violently shows equal hubris, although they did seem to get away with it. ETA: One of the marchers interviewed and videoed, I think his name was Travis Guenther(?) was openly and repeatedly striking a retreating protester with a Trump flagpole. Boggles my mind how he was not charged. https://www.justia.com/criminal/docs...3400/3470.html |
15th April 2017, 04:04 PM | #1905 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,624
|
More fun at Berkeley today. Arrests, beatings, pepper spray, all kinds of good stuff.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/15/us/ber...ump/index.html http://kron4.com/2017/04/15/berkeley...lent-protests/ http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...415-story.html http://www.theamericanmirror.com/vid...erkeley-rally/ One good thing: the rest of the country is not like Berkeley. I don't mean the protests, I mean everything that happens there. It lives in its own little world or something. |
__________________
Why bother? |
|
15th April 2017, 06:45 PM | #1906 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
|
That's hilarious
Antifa storm troopers show up at someone else's rally looking for a fight and gets their asses kicked. YouTube link |
15th April 2017, 06:54 PM | #1907 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
Can someone explain who is who? And I loved the guy in the hi-vis jacket with the slogan "Jesus will judge you" getting a few kicks in the guy who was bring beaten on the pavement.
|
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
15th April 2017, 08:24 PM | #1908 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
|
We've got one I.D. so far, that white woman with the "culturally appropriated" dreads.
|
15th April 2017, 08:31 PM | #1909 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,694
|
Two groups of violent idiots drowning out the voices of the majority of people that actually want to act civilized.
You know who I would actually root for? A group who went to places these waring factions of immaturity are going to show up and placed a couple crates of loaded firearms between them. Let nature sort it out. |
15th April 2017, 08:36 PM | #1910 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
The guy who punched her is Nathan Damigo. Founder of neo-nazi group "Identity Europa" and already served out a 5 year prison sentence for violent hate crime against a muslim cab driver.
|
15th April 2017, 08:39 PM | #1911 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
The usual, fascists vs antifa. As the posts above and below yours show, the fascists are getting really desperate if all they have is video of a neo-nazi punching a woman and a couple of cherry-picked minutes in a side street where they actually managed to advance a couple hundred yards for a moment.
|
15th April 2017, 08:53 PM | #1912 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
|
15th April 2017, 09:02 PM | #1913 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
|
We're not getting blown away with insightful and intelligent anitfa commentary surrounding this event now are we ?
|
15th April 2017, 09:39 PM | #1914 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,694
|
|
15th April 2017, 10:05 PM | #1915 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,681
|
Having watched the video footage of the fight, I think this settles the Vegan vs Meat Eating debate.
|
__________________
Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh! |
|
16th April 2017, 09:20 AM | #1916 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,837
|
|
16th April 2017, 09:35 AM | #1917 |
High Priest of Ed
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,871
|
|
__________________
Hamilton 68: Tracking Russian internet propaganda |
|
16th April 2017, 09:58 AM | #1918 |
High Priest of Ed
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,871
|
I can't think of anything that would make Trump supporters more sympathetic than what these antifa kooks are doing.
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk |
__________________
Hamilton 68: Tracking Russian internet propaganda |
|
16th April 2017, 10:23 AM | #1919 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
In fairness, the links presented tell us very little about what happened at this gig, as far as who instigated what violence. We have a clear video of a fascist/nazi/Trumper/whatever punching a woman in the face, no run-up as far as what happened immediately before, so just a clear battery delivered by the Trump side. Actually, another clash where the pro-Trump marchers are aggressive (shades of Orange County).
|
16th April 2017, 10:48 AM | #1920 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sometimes
Posts: 2,240
|
Who won the debate? The ninjas or the Captain Americas?
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|