|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
16th April 2017, 11:03 AM | #1921 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,624
|
|
__________________
Why bother? |
|
16th April 2017, 11:46 AM | #1922 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,396
|
This is what it would have looked like if they had cell phone cameras in 1920's Berlin.
|
__________________
"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk. |
|
16th April 2017, 03:52 PM | #1923 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
|
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
16th April 2017, 05:19 PM | #1924 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
|
|
16th April 2017, 05:28 PM | #1925 |
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
|
|
16th April 2017, 10:06 PM | #1926 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
16th April 2017, 10:18 PM | #1927 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
No, I referred to only one attacker as a fascist/nazi/Trumper/whatever because I'm not sure what to call him. I guess you are right- 'batterer' or 'violent attacker' is the only precise term.
Quote:
And seriously, scalps? Isn't it kind of obvious that she means knocking off and swiping the red MAGA hats as spoils? Or do you insist that she meant literally scalping? Her fault, huh? Talk is cheap. That guy wasn't talking, he just got very violent, without provocation from her. |
17th April 2017, 05:59 AM | #1928 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
|
If by "in it together" you mean the free speechers wanted to hold their rally knowing they were going to be attacked by antifa and adopted a bring-it-on attitude rather than stayed home cowering under their beds then, yes, there's a certain element of in it togetherness at play here.
Antifa girl needs 80 grand for a whole new life. |
17th April 2017, 08:11 AM | #1929 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,681
|
|
__________________
Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh! |
|
17th April 2017, 08:18 AM | #1930 |
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
|
|
17th April 2017, 08:39 AM | #1931 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
|
17th April 2017, 08:55 AM | #1932 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
"Nazi" will do: "black people are inferior to whites, genetically".
Quote:
|
17th April 2017, 08:57 AM | #1933 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
|
|
17th April 2017, 09:06 AM | #1934 |
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
|
|
17th April 2017, 09:37 AM | #1935 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
|
|
17th April 2017, 10:12 AM | #1936 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
|
|
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
|
|
17th April 2017, 01:08 PM | #1937 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,624
|
I didn't say that, I said "the left" or factions of it. I will clarify: A lot of liberals/Dems acted like idiots during the campaign. The media, the President himself, Hillary, burning flags, starting fights, false accusations. That is what I am talking about. The left tried to bully their way into office and they are still bullying. It didn't work then and it won't work now. They never seem to learn
Quote:
Quote:
|
__________________
Why bother? |
|
17th April 2017, 04:54 PM | #1938 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
Might depend on how that group is perceived - are they perceived to be a true minority or are they perceived to exert undue influence? Similar to the Tea Party, i guess. They were small, but I think they materially affected the views of many voters in the last couple of elections. I think they added to the polarization - they attracted more nutballs to the conservative side, and drove a lot of middle-of-the road people to vote for Obama.
So if the fringy anti-free-speech militants are perceived to either be a larger chunk than they are, or are perceived to be "squeaky wheel" getting more influence than their size allows, or are perceived to be more truly representative of how a larger number of liberals "actually" feel... they could have an impact. |
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
17th April 2017, 06:31 PM | #1939 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
17th April 2017, 06:40 PM | #1940 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
17th April 2017, 06:42 PM | #1941 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
|
17th April 2017, 07:28 PM | #1942 |
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,899
|
Weighted gloves or taking a swing at the guy?
Weighted glove? Sure. Looks like it to me. Here we see the BlockTard in her "Deer in the headlights" moment as she's about to be bulldozed by the TrumpTard. Glove on her hand looks like a weighted boxing glove, much like this one: Taking a swing at the guy? No. Once she decided to jump into the fray, she had no chance: Clearly out of her league. Someone should tell her that when being assaulted by a large on-rushing attacker, it's a good idea to keep one's eyes open if self-defense is the goal. |
__________________
|
|
17th April 2017, 07:47 PM | #1943 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
|
I don't know what you're looking for, we have young Louise boasting about going off to collect some scalps and the wording in the gofundme that talks about taking a stand against "the grizzly display of violent chauvinism"
It's pretty straightforward, really. As to nazi guy...take a look at frame 18 in this slideshow. Here we can see our heroine holding a bottle in what appears to be the seconds before the punch to the head. Kind of curious, don't you think ? She claims she left early in the morning and drove up to Berkley and "everything happened "immediately when we got there" YouTube link. Maybe a little fortification for the upcoming scalping ? I'd really hate to think she was throwing bottles. |
17th April 2017, 08:32 PM | #1944 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Oh, I'll buy that it was a weighted glove. But imma call BS that it made the slightest difference in her combat prowess. You could have put a baseball bat in her hands and she would likely have met with the same fate.
What I want to see is evidence that she actually initiated violence, as opposed to being attacked by a white supremacist marcher, as the video shows. The narrative being posted seems to hang on the assumption that the bad ol' protesters viciously attacked and the wholesome Trump supporters just protected their little ol' innocent selves. |
17th April 2017, 08:49 PM | #1945 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Young Louise can post whatever boasting she pleases (pretty sure scalping refers to knocking off and stealing red MAGA hats, btw). That does not give a white supremacist the right to attack her. I find that pretty straightforward, really.
Quote:
And I guess it was before the punch to the head, but look closely at that still. Who appears to be the aggressor? Is this plausible: she is drinking up some nerve when Cap'n Master Race attacks. Could the pic simply show her getting assaulted and battered? Or must she surely have started it, beyond any reasonable doubt? Serious question. |
17th April 2017, 09:10 PM | #1947 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
|
That's a pretty creative interpretation of scalping, props for that but I'm not buying it. It's a clear outright statement expressing a desire to commit horrific violence.
Quote:
Nazi dude saw her in attack position with the bottle, gave her a shove which dislodged the bottle, hat and scarf and when she came back at him in a fit of (drunken? ) rage....pow ! straight to the moon. |
17th April 2017, 09:27 PM | #1948 |
High Priest of Ed
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,871
|
Given a choice between that and literally removing the hairy skin from the head, I think Occam's Razor favors the former.
I didn't see this bottle, but may have overlooked it. Even still, Nazi dude picked a little girl as a target, typical. I've been looking over the Facebook page of the Oak Roots Collective she claimed to be a part of: https://www.facebook.com/OakRootsCol...PAGES_TIMELINE Both sides equally evil, IMHO. |
__________________
Hamilton 68: Tracking Russian internet propaganda |
|
17th April 2017, 09:40 PM | #1949 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
I have heard knocking off a rivals hat and keeping it as a trophy called scalping since at least the '90s. Admittedly not all that common an expression (anecdotally, a sports bar nearby has hats behind the bar from patrons who wore the wrong team). Based on her actions in the videos and part of the interview you linked, I still have to say she is no bad-ass and any bluster about scalping was cheap talk.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
17th April 2017, 09:49 PM | #1950 |
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,899
|
Obviously. As I said, out of her league.
LOL. She didn't have to actually initiate anything. She showed up to a gang fight dressed as a combatant. She sought out the ****, she got caught up in the ****, and the **** got real. Real fast. It's that simple. She's an idiot. |
__________________
|
|
17th April 2017, 10:01 PM | #1951 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Yes, this one was for sure mutual street brawling. But my point is that there is a subtext in a lot of posts here that the protesters are the bad guys. That's why I want to see the assumption supported that the antifa started anything, as opposed to both sides throwing down by consensus. If it is mutual, why demonize the protestors?
ETA: and champion the marchers as the Guardians of Freedom? |
18th April 2017, 06:50 AM | #1952 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
|
OK...maybe I used an extra adjective. I didn't actually mean scalping in the literal sense and any further explanation on the origin of the term is covered in the facebook link you posted.
As to the bottle....that's also covered in your link with the added bonus that antifa is claiming the bottle is photoshopped in by the alt-right. I sourced my copy from Reuters specifically to avoid having to entertain such absurd claims but maybe antifa means Reuters when they say alt-right.
Quote:
|
18th April 2017, 07:02 AM | #1953 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,011
|
Sorry but I don't think there is a reason to prove antifa 'started' the aggression. If KKK members showed up at a black lives matter rally, and a brawl ensued, I wouldn't be asking who started the aggression.(no, I am not equating the two groups) It is not like antifa is known for their peaceful protests and friendly demeanor to opposing groups. Had it been a young Republicans group from the local college, I would be more inclined to view the situation differently. Personal bias I guess.
As for the girl, she was in the fray of the fights in photo 15 from that slideshow, and as pointed out in photo 18 involved in another altercation, and then the one in which she was punched. You can argue his punch was excessive for sure, but it doesn't seem like she just found herself all of a sudden in a bad situation. She put herself there repeatedly. And her interview shows she is blatantly lying, so not much sympathy from me. |
18th April 2017, 07:55 AM | #1954 |
Guest
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
|
Are people really supporting our little Anti-FreeAssembly Princess?
She clearly is wearing weighted Sap gloves, which are illegal in California. She went to the Trump march with the intent to violently disrupt it, and got exactly what she should have expected. The fact that she went to get into a fight and then complains she got into a fight is ridiculous. |
18th April 2017, 08:52 AM | #1955 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
|
You heard that eh ? You heard that scalping was the "barf out, gag me with a spoon" equivalent of stealing someone's hat. That kind of stretching would impress even Mr. Fantastic.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
18th April 2017, 08:53 AM | #1956 |
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,899
|
Both sides are the "bad guy" in this case.
The protestors are the bigger idiots, IMO. I do recognize the protestors rights to assemble and free speech, but that isn't what they're about. They're about dressing up like "anarchists" and stirring it up with another bunch idiots. The protestors in this case control their own fate. I also recognize that there comes a time when one has to stand up for their beliefs and convictions, but you can't fight stupid with stupid. It just doesn't work. Or as the saying goes; Never wrestle a pig. You just get dirty and the pig likes it. Very applicable in this case. |
__________________
|
|
18th April 2017, 12:24 PM | #1957 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,396
|
Like with the street brawls between Fascists and Communists after the Great War, the world would be better off if the ground opened up and swallowed both sides into the void, This is the End-style
|
__________________
"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar "Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk. |
|
18th April 2017, 12:26 PM | #1958 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
|
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
18th April 2017, 12:31 PM | #1959 |
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
|
It seems as if you are consistently on the side of the antifa crowd. In several threads so far, you've taken the position that it was the Trump supporters who started it, or it was "mutual". At no point have I seen you give any credence to the suggestion that it might be the anti-protesters who instigated the situation.
Is this a true interpretation of your perspective, or have I mis-inferred your position? |
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|