IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 16th April 2017, 11:03 AM   #1921
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,624
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I can't think of anything that would make Trump supporters more sympathetic than what these antifa kooks are doing.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
Which is also a big reason why Trump is now president. The "left" (or factions of it) can't seem to figure out that acting douchey isn't working.
__________________
Why bother?
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2017, 11:46 AM   #1922
Polaris
Penultimate Amazing
 
Polaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,396
This is what it would have looked like if they had cell phone cameras in 1920's Berlin.
__________________
"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar

"Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk.
Polaris is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2017, 03:52 PM   #1923
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Which is also a big reason why Trump is now president. The "left" (or factions of it) can't seem to figure out that acting douchey isn't working.
Trump becoming president seems to refute your claim.
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2017, 05:19 PM   #1924
Stout
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
In fairness, the links presented tell us very little about what happened at this gig, as far as who instigated what violence. We have a clear video of a fascist/nazi/Trumper/whatever punching a woman in the face, no run-up as far as what happened immediately before, so just a clear battery delivered by the Trump side. Actually, another clash where the pro-Trump marchers are aggressive (shades of Orange County).
Well...

The links tell us that, again, antifa went to someone else's rally looking for a physical confrontation ( nazi scalps ) and got what they were looking for.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2017, 05:28 PM   #1925
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
In fairness, the links presented tell us very little about what happened at this gig, as far as who instigated what violence. We have a clear video of a fascist/nazi/Trumper/whatever punching a woman in the face, no run-up as far as what happened immediately before, so just a clear battery delivered by the Trump side. Actually, another clash where the pro-Trump marchers are aggressive (shades of Orange County).
In fairness? You just referred to people you do not agree with as fascists and Nazis.

Yeah, the loser bragging about going to instigate violence got her ass beat.

In fairness? Seems like it is her fault.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2017, 10:06 PM   #1926
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Well...

The links tell us that, again, antifa went to someone else's rally looking for a physical confrontation ( nazi scalps ) and got what they were looking for.
True enough, one woman said that. Also from the LA Times link:

Originally Posted by LA Times
Stewart Rhodes, founder of the citizen militia group known as the Oath Keepers, said he came from Montana with about 50 others to protect Trump supporters. They were joined by bikers and others who vowed to fight members of an anti-fascist group if they crossed police barricades.

“I don’t mind hitting” the counter-demonstrators, Rhodes said. “In fact, I would kind of enjoy it.”
So I'm going with: they were in it together, expecting and relishing a fight.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th April 2017, 10:18 PM   #1927
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
In fairness? You just referred to people you do not agree with as fascists and Nazis.
No, I referred to only one attacker as a fascist/nazi/Trumper/whatever because I'm not sure what to call him. I guess you are right- 'batterer' or 'violent attacker' is the only precise term.

Quote:
Yeah, the loser bragging about going to instigate violence got her ass beat.

In fairness? Seems like it is her fault.
As quoted above from the Times, both sides seemed ready to get rowdy. But one was filmed actually doing so, with no apparent provocation on the vid...a Trump supporter again.

And seriously, scalps? Isn't it kind of obvious that she means knocking off and swiping the red MAGA hats as spoils? Or do you insist that she meant literally scalping?

Her fault, huh? Talk is cheap. That guy wasn't talking, he just got very violent, without provocation from her.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 05:59 AM   #1928
Stout
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
True enough, one woman said that. Also from the LA Times link:



So I'm going with: they were in it together, expecting and relishing a fight.
If by "in it together" you mean the free speechers wanted to hold their rally knowing they were going to be attacked by antifa and adopted a bring-it-on attitude rather than stayed home cowering under their beds then, yes, there's a certain element of in it togetherness at play here.

Antifa girl needs 80 grand for a whole new life.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 08:11 AM   #1929
Eddie Dane
Philosopher
 
Eddie Dane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,681
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
If by "in it together" you mean the free speechers wanted to hold their rally knowing they were going to be attacked by antifa and adopted a bring-it-on attitude rather than stayed home cowering under their beds then, yes, there's a certain element of in it togetherness at play here.

Antifa girl needs 80 grand for a whole new life.
Living in a squad and growing dreads sure got more expensive since I was young.

Inflation is out of control.
__________________
Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh!
Eddie Dane is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 08:18 AM   #1930
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post

And seriously, scalps? Isn't it kind of obvious that she means knocking off and swiping the red MAGA hats as spoils? Or do you insist that she meant literally scalping?

Her fault, huh? Talk is cheap. That guy wasn't talking, he just got very violent, without provocation from her.
As spoils?



Sounds like the AntiFirstAmendement princess went 'spoiling" for a fight and took the beating she richly deserved.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 08:39 AM   #1931
caveman1917
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
When did this become "usual"?
1920's.
caveman1917 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 08:55 AM   #1932
caveman1917
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
No, I referred to only one attacker as a fascist/nazi/Trumper/whatever because I'm not sure what to call him. I guess you are right- 'batterer' or 'violent attacker' is the only precise term.
"Nazi" will do: "black people are inferior to whites, genetically".

Quote:
Her fault, huh? Talk is cheap. That guy wasn't talking, he just got very violent, without provocation from her.
Question of the day: could it have anything to do with him being a nazi?
caveman1917 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 08:57 AM   #1933
caveman1917
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
If by "in it together" you mean the free speechers wanted to hold their rally
"Free speechers"
caveman1917 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 09:06 AM   #1934
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
"Nazi" will do: "black people are inferior to whites, genetically".

Question of the day: could it have anything to do with him being a nazi?
It probably has something to do with her wearing weighted gloves and taking a swing at the guy.

She chose... poorly.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 09:37 AM   #1935
Stout
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It probably has something to do with her wearing weighted gloves and taking a swing at the guy.
You figure ?

I was wondering shy she was wearing just one glove and put it down to some sort of Michael Jackson fashion statement.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 10:12 AM   #1936
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 17,528
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Which is also a big reason why Trump is now president. The "left" (or factions of it) can't seem to figure out that acting douchey isn't working.
If the actions of a miniscule group of fringe, anti free speech militants made an iota of difference in the election outcome, I'll eat my Zorro mask.

"Big reason"? Absurd.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 01:08 PM   #1937
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,624
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
If the actions of a miniscule group of fringe, anti free speech militants made an iota of difference in the election outcome, I'll eat my Zorro mask.

"Big reason"? Absurd.

I didn't say that, I said "the left" or factions of it.

I will clarify:

A lot of liberals/Dems acted like idiots during the campaign. The media, the President himself, Hillary, burning flags, starting fights, false accusations. That is what I am talking about.

The left tried to bully their way into office and they are still bullying. It didn't work then and it won't work now. They never seem to learn


Quote:
The "left" (or factions of it) can't seem to figure out that acting douchey isn't working.
Quote:
@Darat
Trump becoming president seems to refute your claim.
No. It worked for the Repubs, I said the left can't figure it out. Different kind of "douchey" I guess.
__________________
Why bother?
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 04:54 PM   #1938
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
If the actions of a miniscule group of fringe, anti free speech militants made an iota of difference in the election outcome, I'll eat my Zorro mask.
Might depend on how that group is perceived - are they perceived to be a true minority or are they perceived to exert undue influence? Similar to the Tea Party, i guess. They were small, but I think they materially affected the views of many voters in the last couple of elections. I think they added to the polarization - they attracted more nutballs to the conservative side, and drove a lot of middle-of-the road people to vote for Obama.

So if the fringy anti-free-speech militants are perceived to either be a larger chunk than they are, or are perceived to be "squeaky wheel" getting more influence than their size allows, or are perceived to be more truly representative of how a larger number of liberals "actually" feel... they could have an impact.
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 06:31 PM   #1939
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
If by "in it together" you mean the free speechers wanted to hold their rally knowing they were going to be attacked by antifa and adopted a bring-it-on attitude rather than stayed home cowering under their beds then, yes, there's a certain element of in it togetherness at play here.

Antifa girl needs 80 grand for a whole new life.
Hold up: is there reporting presented that the antifa initiated violence and pro-Trump marchers just defending? Where? The neo who laid into that woman didn't exactly look like he was defending himself.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 06:40 PM   #1940
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
As spoils?

Souvenir then?

Quote:
Sounds like the AntiFirstAmendement princess went 'spoiling" for a fight and took the beating she richly deserved.
Care to expand on that one? She richly deserved to be hospitalized because of a tweet about collecting nazi scalps? The video shows no aggression on her part but certainly shows violence from the white supremacist.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 06:42 PM   #1941
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It probably has something to do with her wearing weighted gloves and taking a swing at the guy.

She chose... poorly.
OK, I'll bite. I have not seen this evidence presented. Would you be so kind?
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 07:28 PM   #1942
TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
 
TJM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,899
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
OK, I'll bite. I have not seen this evidence presented. Would you be so kind?
Weighted gloves or taking a swing at the guy?

Weighted glove? Sure. Looks like it to me.

Here we see the BlockTard in her "Deer in the headlights" moment as she's about to be bulldozed by the TrumpTard.



Glove on her hand looks like a weighted boxing glove, much like this one:



Taking a swing at the guy? No. Once she decided to jump into the fray, she had no chance:





Clearly out of her league. Someone should tell her that when being assaulted by a large on-rushing attacker, it's a good idea to keep one's eyes open if self-defense is the goal.
__________________
TJM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 07:47 PM   #1943
Stout
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Hold up: is there reporting presented that the antifa initiated violence and pro-Trump marchers just defending? Where? The neo who laid into that woman didn't exactly look like he was defending himself.
I don't know what you're looking for, we have young Louise boasting about going off to collect some scalps and the wording in the gofundme that talks about taking a stand against "the grizzly display of violent chauvinism"

It's pretty straightforward, really.

As to nazi guy...take a look at frame 18 in this slideshow. Here we can see our heroine holding a bottle in what appears to be the seconds before the punch to the head. Kind of curious, don't you think ? She claims she left early in the morning and drove up to Berkley and "everything happened "immediately when we got there" YouTube link. Maybe a little fortification for the upcoming scalping ?

I'd really hate to think she was throwing bottles.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 08:32 PM   #1944
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Weighted gloves or taking a swing at the guy?

Weighted glove? Sure. Looks like it to me.

Here we see the BlockTard in her "Deer in the headlights" moment as she's about to be bulldozed by the TrumpTard.

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/...0Idiot%201.jpg

Glove on her hand looks like a weighted boxing glove, much like this one:

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/...0Idiot%204.jpg

Taking a swing at the guy? No. Once she decided to jump into the fray, she had no chance:

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/...diot%202_2.jpg

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/...0Idiot%203.jpg

Clearly out of her league. Someone should tell her that when being assaulted by a large on-rushing attacker, it's a good idea to keep one's eyes open if self-defense is the goal.
Oh, I'll buy that it was a weighted glove. But imma call BS that it made the slightest difference in her combat prowess. You could have put a baseball bat in her hands and she would likely have met with the same fate.

What I want to see is evidence that she actually initiated violence, as opposed to being attacked by a white supremacist marcher, as the video shows. The narrative being posted seems to hang on the assumption that the bad ol' protesters viciously attacked and the wholesome Trump supporters just protected their little ol' innocent selves.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 08:49 PM   #1945
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
I don't know what you're looking for, we have young Louise boasting about going off to collect some scalps and the wording in the gofundme that talks about taking a stand against "the grizzly display of violent chauvinism"

It's pretty straightforward, really.
Young Louise can post whatever boasting she pleases (pretty sure scalping refers to knocking off and stealing red MAGA hats, btw). That does not give a white supremacist the right to attack her. I find that pretty straightforward, really.

Quote:
As to nazi guy...take a look at frame 18 in this slideshow. Here we can see our heroine holding a bottle in what appears to be the seconds before the punch to the head. Kind of curious, don't you think ? She claims she left early in the morning and drove up to Berkley and "everything happened "immediately when we got there" YouTube link. Maybe a little fortification for the upcoming scalping ?

I'd really hate to think she was throwing bottles.
Good catch on the pic, it does look like she is holding a bottle. Doesn't look like it was thrown or broken, though, so very provisionally I would assume that it was, as you say, a nerve tonic rather than projectile.

And I guess it was before the punch to the head, but look closely at that still. Who appears to be the aggressor? Is this plausible: she is drinking up some nerve when Cap'n Master Race attacks. Could the pic simply show her getting assaulted and battered? Or must she surely have started it, beyond any reasonable doubt? Serious question.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 09:10 PM   #1947
Stout
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Young Louise can post whatever boasting she pleases (pretty sure scalping refers to knocking off and stealing red MAGA hats, btw). That does not give a white supremacist the right to attack her. I find that pretty straightforward, really.
That's a pretty creative interpretation of scalping, props for that but I'm not buying it. It's a clear outright statement expressing a desire to commit horrific violence.

Quote:
And I guess it was before the punch to the head, but look closely at that still. Who appears to be the aggressor? Is this plausible: she is drinking up some nerve when Cap'n Master Race attacks. Could the pic simply show her getting assaulted and battered? Or must she surely have started it, beyond any reasonable doubt? Serious question.
It was defiantly before the punch, she still has her hat on and the bandanna covering her face. I'd say the person holding the deadly weapon is the aggressor. Look at the way she's holding the bottle, with her thumb around the base of the neck. That's a pretty awkward position to slug the last few drops of your liquid courage but a very effective grip for throwing or hitting with.

Nazi dude saw her in attack position with the bottle, gave her a shove which dislodged the bottle, hat and scarf and when she came back at him in a fit of (drunken? ) rage....pow ! straight to the moon.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 09:27 PM   #1948
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
 
Mycroft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,871
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
That's a pretty creative interpretation of scalping, props for that but I'm not buying it. It's a clear outright statement expressing a desire to commit horrific violence.
Given a choice between that and literally removing the hairy skin from the head, I think Occam's Razor favors the former.

Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Nazi dude saw her in attack position with the bottle, gave her a shove which dislodged the bottle, hat and scarf and when she came back at him in a fit of (drunken? ) rage....pow ! straight to the moon.
I didn't see this bottle, but may have overlooked it. Even still, Nazi dude picked a little girl as a target, typical.

I've been looking over the Facebook page of the Oak Roots Collective she claimed to be a part of:

https://www.facebook.com/OakRootsCol...PAGES_TIMELINE

Both sides equally evil, IMHO.
Mycroft is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 09:40 PM   #1949
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
That's a pretty creative interpretation of scalping, props for that but I'm not buying it. It's a clear outright statement expressing a desire to commit horrific violence.
I have heard knocking off a rivals hat and keeping it as a trophy called scalping since at least the '90s. Admittedly not all that common an expression (anecdotally, a sports bar nearby has hats behind the bar from patrons who wore the wrong team). Based on her actions in the videos and part of the interview you linked, I still have to say she is no bad-ass and any bluster about scalping was cheap talk.

Quote:
It was defiantly before the punch, she still has her hat on and the bandanna covering her face. I'd say the person holding the deadly weapon is the aggressor.
Hang on, it looks like a bottle and it looks like she is holding it, but in fairness it may not be. Holding a bottle, especially if imbibing, is not brandishing a deadly weapon.

Quote:
Look at the way she's holding the bottle, with her thumb around the base of the neck. That's a pretty awkward position to slug the last few drops of your liquid courage but a very effective grip for throwing or hitting with.
True enough. But if a larger, stronger, and very aggressive white supremacist charged you, might you use whatever was at your disposal to protect yourself from his violent attack, even turning your nerve tonic bottle into an impromptu weapon? I don't see how this is so summarily ruled out. The photos and vids are consistent in showing him as the attacker.

Quote:
Nazi dude saw her in attack position with the bottle, gave her a shove which dislodged the bottle, hat and scarf and when she came back at him in a fit of (drunken? ) rage....pow ! straight to the moon.
That is possible. But the 'attack position' and 'coming back at him' are add-ons, not actually seen. All that is actually seen is the white supremacist in full-on attack mode. I find it difficult to add on the extra acts needed to frame her as the aggressor, in the absence of anything more substantial.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 09:49 PM   #1950
TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
 
TJM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,899
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Oh, I'll buy that it was a weighted glove. But imma call BS that it made the slightest difference in her combat prowess.
Obviously. As I said, out of her league.

Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
What I want to see is evidence that she actually initiated violence, as opposed to being attacked by a white supremacist marcher, as the video shows. The narrative being posted seems to hang on the assumption that the bad ol' protesters viciously attacked and the wholesome Trump supporters just protected their little ol' innocent selves.
LOL.

She didn't have to actually initiate anything. She showed up to a gang fight dressed as a combatant. She sought out the ****, she got caught up in the ****, and the **** got real. Real fast.

It's that simple.

She's an idiot.
__________________
TJM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th April 2017, 10:01 PM   #1951
Thermal
Penultimate Amazing
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Obviously. As I said, out of her league.



LOL.

She didn't have to actually initiate anything. She showed up to a gang fight dressed as a combatant. She sought out the ****, she got caught up in the ****, and the **** got real. Real fast.

It's that simple.

She's an idiot.
Yes, this one was for sure mutual street brawling. But my point is that there is a subtext in a lot of posts here that the protesters are the bad guys. That's why I want to see the assumption supported that the antifa started anything, as opposed to both sides throwing down by consensus. If it is mutual, why demonize the protestors?

ETA: and champion the marchers as the Guardians of Freedom?

Last edited by Thermal; 17th April 2017 at 10:09 PM.
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2017, 06:50 AM   #1952
Stout
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Given a choice between that and literally removing the hairy skin from the head, I think Occam's Razor favors the former.
OK...maybe I used an extra adjective. I didn't actually mean scalping in the literal sense and any further explanation on the origin of the term is covered in the facebook link you posted.

As to the bottle....that's also covered in your link with the added bonus that antifa is claiming the bottle is photoshopped in by the alt-right. I sourced my copy from Reuters specifically to avoid having to entertain such absurd claims but maybe antifa means Reuters when they say alt-right.

Quote:
Both sides equally evil, IMHO.
You won't be getting an argument from me on that.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2017, 07:02 AM   #1953
rdwight
Graduate Poster
 
rdwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,011
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
That's why I want to see the assumption supported that the antifa started anything, as opposed to both sides throwing down by consensus. If it is mutual, why demonize the protestors?
Sorry but I don't think there is a reason to prove antifa 'started' the aggression. If KKK members showed up at a black lives matter rally, and a brawl ensued, I wouldn't be asking who started the aggression.(no, I am not equating the two groups) It is not like antifa is known for their peaceful protests and friendly demeanor to opposing groups. Had it been a young Republicans group from the local college, I would be more inclined to view the situation differently. Personal bias I guess.

As for the girl, she was in the fray of the fights in photo 15 from that slideshow, and as pointed out in photo 18 involved in another altercation, and then the one in which she was punched. You can argue his punch was excessive for sure, but it doesn't seem like she just found herself all of a sudden in a bad situation. She put herself there repeatedly. And her interview shows she is blatantly lying, so not much sympathy from me.
rdwight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2017, 07:55 AM   #1954
The Big Dog
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 29,742
Are people really supporting our little Anti-FreeAssembly Princess?

She clearly is wearing weighted Sap gloves, which are illegal in California.

She went to the Trump march with the intent to violently disrupt it, and got exactly what she should have expected.

The fact that she went to get into a fight and then complains she got into a fight is ridiculous.

Last edited by The Big Dog; 18th April 2017 at 08:03 AM.
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2017, 08:52 AM   #1955
Stout
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,449
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
I have heard knocking off a rivals hat and keeping it as a trophy called scalping since at least the '90s. Admittedly not all that common an expression (anecdotally, a sports bar nearby has hats behind the bar from patrons who wore the wrong team). Based on her actions in the videos and part of the interview you linked, I still have to say she is no bad-ass and any bluster about scalping was cheap talk.
You heard that eh ? You heard that scalping was the "barf out, gag me with a spoon" equivalent of stealing someone's hat. That kind of stretching would impress even Mr. Fantastic.

Quote:
Hang on, it looks like a bottle and it looks like she is holding it, but in fairness it may not be. Holding a bottle, especially if imbibing, is not brandishing a deadly weapon.
No, dude, it was a bottle not even antifa is trying to claim it was anything else. She was holding it. Download the Reuters pick, zoom in on it but if you want to pass it off as something like a paper mâché sculpture that she picked up at the nearby farmers market, you're more than welcome to have at 'er.

Quote:
True enough. But if a larger, stronger, and very aggressive white supremacist charged you, might you use whatever was at your disposal to protect yourself from his violent attack, even turning your nerve tonic bottle into an impromptu weapon? I don't see how this is so summarily ruled out. The photos and vids are consistent in showing him as the attacker.
So now it is a bottle. Good, we're making progress. So is it your position that she just innocently showed up at a gang fight, wearing her gang colours and was quietly standing there getting drunk when, for no reason at all, she was violently attacked by Captain Master Race ? If it is, I'm wondering why she didn't say that in the interview.

Quote:
That is possible. But the 'attack position' and 'coming back at him' are add-ons, not actually seen. All that is actually seen is the white supremacist in full-on attack mode. I find it difficult to add on the extra acts needed to frame her as the aggressor, in the absence of anything more substantial.
We're playing connect the dots here and working with what we got. Most of are following the numbers and coming up with the correct picture however all of this "colouring outside the lines" and not following the intended instructions are resulting in a picture that rather abstract and with a meaning that's only evident to the artist.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2017, 08:53 AM   #1956
TJM
Potsing Whiled Runk
Tagger
 
TJM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,899
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Yes, this one was for sure mutual street brawling. But my point is that there is a subtext in a lot of posts here that the protesters are the bad guys. That's why I want to see the assumption supported that the antifa started anything, as opposed to both sides throwing down by consensus. If it is mutual, why demonize the protestors?

ETA: and champion the marchers as the Guardians of Freedom?
Both sides are the "bad guy" in this case.

The protestors are the bigger idiots, IMO.

I do recognize the protestors rights to assemble and free speech, but that isn't what they're about. They're about dressing up like "anarchists" and stirring it up with another bunch idiots. The protestors in this case control their own fate.

I also recognize that there comes a time when one has to stand up for their beliefs and convictions, but you can't fight stupid with stupid. It just doesn't work.

Or as the saying goes; Never wrestle a pig. You just get dirty and the pig likes it.

Very applicable in this case.
__________________

Last edited by TJM; 18th April 2017 at 09:42 AM.
TJM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2017, 12:24 PM   #1957
Polaris
Penultimate Amazing
 
Polaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,396
Like with the street brawls between Fascists and Communists after the Great War, the world would be better off if the ground opened up and swallowed both sides into the void, This is the End-style
__________________
"There's vastly more truth to be found in rocks than in holy books. Rocks are far superior, in fact, because you can DEMONSTRATE the truth found in rocks. Plus, they're pretty. Holy books are just heavy." - Dinwar

"Let your ears hear this beautiful song that's hiding underneath the sound," Ed Kowalczyk.
Polaris is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2017, 12:26 PM   #1958
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Yes.

Quote:
If there is to be a strong opposition to today's new or renewed breed of ultra-nationalist, corporatist, militant conservatism – the likes of which many reflexively refer to as fascism – then it must be rooted firmly in the virtues and values of the western liberal intellectual tradition of debate and civil action, and not the throes of wannabe revolutionaries espousing totalitarian maxims while claiming they cannot be governed. If the left continues to lose what claim it still has to an intellectual high ground, any hopes of either reforming the Democratic party or retaking political power will remain a pipe dream, lingering in the minds of those who are desperate for change.
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2017, 12:31 PM   #1959
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
Yes, this one was for sure mutual street brawling....
It seems as if you are consistently on the side of the antifa crowd. In several threads so far, you've taken the position that it was the Trump supporters who started it, or it was "mutual". At no point have I seen you give any credence to the suggestion that it might be the anti-protesters who instigated the situation.

Is this a true interpretation of your perspective, or have I mis-inferred your position?
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th April 2017, 12:36 PM   #1960
caveman1917
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 8,143
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
You heard that eh ? You heard that scalping was the "barf out, gag me with a spoon" equivalent of stealing someone's hat. That kind of stretching would impress even Mr. Fantastic.
It very could well be. Some squats will give you free beer for fascists' hats or flags, there's nothing unusual about that. Taking their flags is a bit of a tradition.
caveman1917 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:02 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.