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29th April 2017, 06:58 PM | #2281 |
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29th April 2017, 07:02 PM | #2282 |
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www.gotomeeting.com
If Edward Snowden can manage to have a TED talk (and reportedly makes $25,000 for speaking on the circuit) in the US where he is a wanted man, Coulter can figure out how to reach her fans, including a question and answer session. |
29th April 2017, 07:03 PM | #2283 |
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29th April 2017, 07:07 PM | #2284 |
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29th April 2017, 07:11 PM | #2285 |
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29th April 2017, 07:18 PM | #2286 |
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29th April 2017, 07:33 PM | #2287 |
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29th April 2017, 07:34 PM | #2288 |
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Eh, no, there are plenty of conservatives that actually have something intelligent to say. They're *wrong*, in my opinion, but they're doing something other than spewing insults like Coulter, or trying to silence other people like Milo (ironically, the only thing he's famous for). If the campus conservative/republican groups wanted an intellectual, they'd have invited one.
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29th April 2017, 07:40 PM | #2289 |
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No, she really isn't in anything close to a similar situation. She's not some massive victim, she still has plenty of platforms and is not about to be arrested, and she is not living in anything close to Jim Crow.
(Also, Rosa Parks was sitting towards the back of the bus, but was supposed to give her seat up for a white man because the white section was full. The seat next to her was actually open, but it would be oh so horrible for a noble white man to sit next to some negro. So let's drop this crappy analogy.) |
29th April 2017, 08:04 PM | #2290 |
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Interestingly, Coulter was not even there to give a 'speech'. The group that invited her was subjecting her to a grilling, and they freely admit to not agreeing with her views.
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29th April 2017, 08:08 PM | #2291 |
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29th April 2017, 08:23 PM | #2292 |
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For plane tickets? Not usually.
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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29th April 2017, 08:25 PM | #2293 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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29th April 2017, 08:27 PM | #2294 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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29th April 2017, 08:36 PM | #2295 |
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Lest we drift too far afield and lose focus, what (in your view) would constitute protecting Ann Coulter's rights in this specific situation? Is it just that the event shouldn't be cancelled, or does it include policing the event to ensure she has the platform unmolested?
I ask because Coulter is bowing to the wishes of someone here - the University, the sponsoring organization, threats from protesting groups, policing authority concerns... she doesn't seem to care as much about her right to speak as we do. How do you reconcile your champion's abandonment of the cause in the face of difficulties? Is it enough that she posed for a selfie before retreating? |
29th April 2017, 08:40 PM | #2296 |
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29th April 2017, 08:51 PM | #2297 |
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"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law |
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29th April 2017, 09:58 PM | #2298 |
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Allow me to recap.
Coulter agrees to speak. Everyone is happy to let her speak. Except the protestors, who threaten violence if she dares. No one wants to foot the bill to allow her to speak unmolested. (The price of free speech and all that.) Is that it in a nutshell? I submit that Coulter gets what she wants - the ability to point to her traditional foes and tell us how they are acting outrageously and hypocritically (because of "tolerance"). Protestors get what they want because Coulter is prevented from speaking. University gets what they want because they don't have to pay for protection. The sponsoring group doesn't get what they want though. Coulter is a nice "get." |
29th April 2017, 11:19 PM | #2299 |
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No. They don't.
Surely you understand this, don't you? Of course they have the right to stand around and yell and carry signs, and if that is what you mean by protest, then they have the right to protest. They can peaceably assemble all they want They don't have the right to break windows when they are doing it. They don't have the right to use violence or to threaten violence. They also do not have the right to interfere with an event that was legally scheduled. i.e. if they chose to show up at the venue where Ms. Coulter was speaking, they would not have the right to yell louder than her so that she couldn't actually deliver her speech. |
30th April 2017, 12:13 AM | #2300 |
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Agreed.
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If a threat of violence is enough to shut down an event, then everyone who wished to speak (both inside and outside the venue) is crushed by the same boot. How then can we claim freedom of speech as sacrosanct while simultaneously cancelling the event? The answer for me is that, despite the rhetoric, free speech is not sacrosanct (or if it is in the abstract, it isn't in the particular) and in light of that fact there are useful compromises to be had. Haven't they already come up with a compromise by rescheduling? ETA: I see that Ms. Coulter has rejected the rescheduling. |
30th April 2017, 08:46 PM | #2301 |
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I think what I, and probably many others, would say is that free speech is in fact sacrosanct, and that cancelling the event was a profane act.
Sometimes, practical considerations force actions that would otherwise be considered profane. Applying that to this situation, we might say that the event had to be cancelled for safety reasons. Ok. Very well. If that's true, it should not be considered a compromise, but a surrender, and those who must reluctantly give in to a threat of violence should at least condemn those who made it necessary by their threats of violence. |
30th April 2017, 08:50 PM | #2302 |
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Originally Posted by marplots
has to say? Then either engage them or ignore them. Taking the law into your own hands because you think the end justifies the means is not an option here. And those that routinely engage in such type of behaviour should be made to accept responsibility for their actions |
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1st May 2017, 04:52 AM | #2303 |
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1st May 2017, 12:17 PM | #2304 |
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1st May 2017, 12:21 PM | #2305 |
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1st May 2017, 12:23 PM | #2306 |
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1st May 2017, 12:25 PM | #2307 |
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1st May 2017, 12:27 PM | #2308 |
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Not really no. The protesters threaten violence against attendees and the venue. They threaten everyone. They don't just want to silence her (which is repugnant enough), they want to coerce through violence anyone willing to listen to her and anyone willing to provide a platform for her to speak.
How is this NOT appalling to you? |
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1st May 2017, 12:30 PM | #2309 |
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The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian |
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1st May 2017, 06:35 PM | #2310 |
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Probably because I am jaded and cynical. The world I inhabit is full of force, threats of force and violence of various flavors. To reach "appalling," something would have to rise above the norm in a rather more dramatic fashion that we have here. Murdering your five kids by drowning them one at a time is appalling. Acting like a soccer hooligan? Not so much.
I'm mostly irritated by the assumption that there aren't options and choices available, all down the line. I dislike it when agency is removed from a participant to simplify the narrative. |
2nd May 2017, 04:42 AM | #2311 |
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2nd May 2017, 10:14 AM | #2312 |
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I see the Black Bloc scum was out "expressing themselves" by destroying property, and bringing masks, rocks, marbles and slingshots to protest violence or something on May Day.
I did enjoy when the cops perp walked the worst of the stooges to the patrol wagon and the citizens were cheering. |
2nd May 2017, 11:37 AM | #2313 |
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I don't think anyone has assumed there are no other options available. I think it's a matter of believing (strongly) that nobody should be forced into a situation where their agency is limited by threat of violence.
I dislike it when agency is removed from a participant by a blatant violation of our fundamental constitutional rights. |
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2nd May 2017, 11:40 AM | #2314 |
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Yes, you said they are not the same... but you also agreed that within this context, the distinction of right/left is immaterial in light of the behavior exhibited.
I'm inclined to think that dealing with people who employ violence and threats to deprive others of their civil liberties shouldn't depend on what their political beliefs are, nor should it depend on what they claim as their reasons. This the right-wing/left-wing distinction is meaningless in this context. |
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