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Tags knife , knives , stab

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Old 4th September 2022, 08:37 PM   #1
Athyrio
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Today’s Mass Stabbings

Well, if one cannot acquire a firearm, then a blade can suffice.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-nation-weldon
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Old 4th September 2022, 08:56 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Athyrio View Post
Well, if one cannot acquire a firearm, then a blade can suffice.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-nation-weldon

Well, that is why the UK stepped up with "knife control" measures, right?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a9281791.html

It's almost like there is something besides the weapon at the core of the problem.
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Old 4th September 2022, 10:15 PM   #3
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So it's the old 'guns don't kill people'?
Of course, they don't. They just make it much, much easier to kill an awful lot of people in a matter of minutes whereas it took "a spate of stabbings in 13 locations" to kill 10 people with knives.
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Old 5th September 2022, 02:29 AM   #4
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Where was the "good guy with a knife"?
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Old 5th September 2022, 05:03 AM   #5
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Old 5th September 2022, 06:12 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Well, that is why the UK stepped up with "knife control" measures, right?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a9281791.html

It's almost like there is something besides the weapon at the core of the problem.
What does that have to do with this incident, which happened in Canada?
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Old 5th September 2022, 06:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
What does that have to do with this incident, which happened in Canada?

OP:

Originally Posted by Athyrio
Well, if one cannot acquire a firearm, then a blade can suffice.
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Old 5th September 2022, 06:15 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
OP:
Ludicrous statement is ludicrous.
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Old 5th September 2022, 06:24 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Athyrio View Post
Well, if one cannot acquire a firearm, then a blade can suffice.
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Ludicrous statement is ludicrous.

How so?

It just highlights the fact that the weapon is not the underlying issue. If we focused as much effort on mental health as we do on weapons, we would see more benefit. Imo.
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Old 5th September 2022, 12:55 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
So it's the old 'guns don't kill people'?
Of course, they don't. They just make it much, much easier to kill an awful lot of people in a matter of minutes (from a distance) whereas it took "a spate of stabbings in 13 locations" to kill 10 people with knives.
Friendly FTFY

Indeed. The Las Vegas, Sandy Hook, Uvalde and Christchurch Mosque mass killings could not have been carried out with a knife.
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Old 5th September 2022, 06:24 PM   #11
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It is undeniable that the biggest mass killings of the modern era have been carried out with guns. Not knives. This proves the vacuity of the argument that the weapon is not the problem.
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Old 5th September 2022, 08:28 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
How so?

It just highlights the fact that the weapon is not the underlying issue. If we focused as much effort on mental health as we do on weapons, we would see more benefit. Imo.
Maybe, but the two are not mutually exclusive either. It's of course trivially true that people who really want to go on a killing spree can do it in many different ways - knives, box cutters, runaway trucks, poison, stranglings, and so forth. But it is also pretty obviously true that, horrible as such incidents are, they are less frequent than mass shootings, and generally less lethal.

And how much real effort are we focusing on weapons? How much money? Lots of talk, not much real progress.
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Old 6th September 2022, 03:12 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
And how much real effort are we focusing on weapons? How much money? Lots of talk, not much real progress.

I believe we focus a lot more impotent effort on weapon controls. How often do you see front-page news about the importance of mental health care, and funding it for those who can't afford such, or programs that will prioritize such?

I am for say, increased gun control. But when we get to the point of "knife control", we are clearly not addressing the root cause of the problem.
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Old 6th September 2022, 07:01 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I believe we focus a lot more impotent effort on weapon controls. How often do you see front-page news about the importance of mental health care, and funding it for those who can't afford such, or programs that will prioritize such?

I am for say, increased gun control. But when we get to the point of "knife control", we are clearly not addressing the root cause of the problem.
I suppose it depends on which paper you read, and what is the kind of news that gets on front pages. As for knife control, plenty of places do actually have that, for all the good it does, which I doubt is much. Plenty of places limit the length of blade one can carry, and even in Vermont, where there is no such limit and you can legally carry a machete or a sword, switchblades are illegal.

I do actually agree that the root cause of the problem is not the implements used, but I don't think the problems are mutually exclusive.
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Old 6th September 2022, 07:16 AM   #15
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I assumed certain usual suspects be would in thread with a "See! See! If you take aways guns we'll just stab each other with knives!" hottake and ignore the fact that my home state has had more people shot with guns in between the first post in this thread and now then were killed in the Canada attack.

The Canada Knife Attack is a tragic but rare occurance, not "Everyday."
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Old 6th September 2022, 06:59 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I am for say, increased gun control. But when we get to the point of "knife control", we are clearly not addressing the root cause of the problem.
"Knife control" is a reductio ad absurdum straw argument usually brought by opponents of gun control.
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Old 6th September 2022, 09:56 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
"Knife control" is a reductio ad absurdum straw argument usually brought by opponents of gun control.
Well, come on, he has a point. It was posted earlier that kitchen cutlery manufacturers were making stab resistant designs. At some point, you have to take a step back and say "you know, these people are just murderous. Maybe the tool is not what we should be focusing on".
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Old 6th September 2022, 10:08 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Well, come on, he has a point. It was posted earlier that kitchen cutlery manufacturers were making stab resistant designs. At some point, you have to take a step back and say "you know, these people are just murderous. Maybe the tool is not what we should be focusing on".
No, there is no point here. There's a huge difference between a murderous person with a knife, and a murderous person with an AR-15.
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Old 6th September 2022, 10:16 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No, there is no point here. There's a huge difference between a murderous person with a knife, and a murderous person with an AR-15.
Oh, agreed, and many firearms including semis and handguns should be out of civilian hands, IMO. But it's still fair to note that if you feel like you need to redesign cutlery to keep people from murdering, the problem lieth not so much with the available tools. Lose the guns on the street, but focus more on why the population keeps killing each other.
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Old 6th September 2022, 11:07 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Oh, agreed, and many firearms including semis and handguns should be out of civilian hands, IMO. But it's still fair to note that if you feel like you need to redesign cutlery to keep people from murdering, the problem lieth not so much with the available tools. Lose the guns on the street, but focus more on why the population keeps killing each other.
Sure, because we're going to solve the problem of why people murder. Give me a research grant and I'll get right on it.
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Old 6th September 2022, 11:58 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Sure, because we're going to solve the problem of why people murder. Give me a research grant and I'll get right on it.

So, considering this event, where do you stand on "knife control"? Do you think we should regulate these potential weapons better, and have a requirement for all knives to have square tips?

Or do you agree that most of what occurs with these mass-killings is tied to mental health issues? I know that if I set a knife on the countertop, it is not likely to go out and kill anyone.

What further controls and restrictions on knives would you like to see implemented?
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Old 7th September 2022, 12:00 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, considering this event, where do you stand on "knife control"? Do you think we should regulate these potential weapons better, and have a requirement for all knives to have square tips?

Or do you agree that most of what occurs with these mass-killings is tied to mental health issues? I know that if I set a knife on the countertop, it is not likely to go out and kill anyone.

What further controls and restrictions on knives would you like to see implemented?
This is my position on "knife control":

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
"Knife control" is a reductio ad absurdum straw argument usually brought by opponents of gun control.
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Old 7th September 2022, 03:50 PM   #23
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Well, they got the 2nd brother. Thankfully the first one died, seemingly from wounds he suffered during the attacks??

Quote:
Canadian authorities had been intensely searching for Sanderson, who has a history of violence and is accused along with his brother of killing 10 people and wounding 18 last Sunday in an Indigenous reserve in Saskatchewan.

...

The older Sanderson had 59 criminal convictions and had been serving a sentence of more than four years when he was freed in February. The parole board wrote that "it is the board’s opinion that you will not present an undue risk to society if released on statutory release."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...csp=chromepush

This guy had 59 prior convictions, and a history of violence. Seems like a failure of the criminal justice system, and rehab efforts. Maybe he didn't belong on the street, after all?

I think that even if we focused most of our efforts on less access to dangerous knives, these guys would have still done a lot of killing.
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Old 7th September 2022, 06:17 PM   #24
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Today’s Mass Stabbings

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Well, they got the 2nd brother. Thankfully the first one died, seemingly from wounds he suffered during the attacks.
Second brother also dead - from self-inflicted wounds.
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Old 7th September 2022, 06:26 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Second brother also dead - from self-inflicted wounds.
Nope. And neither was he shot in a police shootout. Arrested by the Mounties.
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Old 7th September 2022, 06:41 PM   #26
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Myles Sanderson, suspect in deadly Canada stabbing attacks, taken into custody

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Myles Sanderson, one of the two suspects in a stabbing spree that left 10 people dead in the Canadian province of Saskatchewan, was taken into custody Wednesday, police said. An official later told The Associated Press that Sanderson has died of self-inflicted wounds.

The official did not explain when those wounds were sustained or when Sanderson died.
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Old 7th September 2022, 10:55 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Nope.

Yep


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Old 7th September 2022, 11:27 PM   #28
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Suspect arrested over Canada mass stabbing dies from self-inflicted injuries

Quote:
Myles Sanderson went into ‘medical distress’ after his arrest, and later died in hospital, say police


The fugitive wanted over a mass stabbing in Canada that killed 10 people and injured 18 has died in hospital after his arrest, police have confirmed, with sources saying his death was the result of self-inflicted wounds.

Myles Sanderson went into “medical distress” after his arrest and was taken to hospital where he died, Royal Canadian Mounted police assistant commissioner Rhonda Blackmore said in a press conference on Wednesday night. Police found a knife in the truck, which officers had rammed off the road into a ditch, but Blackmore would not comment on the cause of his death.

Sources familiar with the situation earlier confirmed to the Guardian that Sanderson died shortly after being taken into custody, after police rammed his stolen vehicle. They said he had died as a result of self-inflicted injuries. Police sources gave similar accounts to Canadian media outlet Global News and Associated Press.
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Old 8th September 2022, 01:20 AM   #29
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So, how do we think this event could have been avoided? That is the goal, right?

I know that if they had used guns, the outcry would be for more gun control.

Where do we focus, here? The knives?
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Old 8th September 2022, 01:27 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, how do we think this event could have been avoided? That is the goal, right?

I know that if they had used guns, the outcry would be for more gun control.

Where do we focus, here? The knives?
We don't know. Both perpetrators are dead, so we can't ask them why they did it.
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Old 8th September 2022, 01:29 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, how do we think this event could have been avoided? That is the goal, right?

I know that if they had used guns, the outcry would be for more gun control.

Where do we focus, here? The knives?
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
We don't know. Both perpetrators are dead, so we can't ask them why they did it.

Where do we focus when a mass shooter kills and then takes their own life?

I guess we don't know, since they are dead. Right?
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Old 8th September 2022, 01:31 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, how do we think this event could have been avoided? That is the goal, right?

I know that if they had used guns, the outcry would be for more gun control.

Where do we focus, here? The knives?
How do you know that?
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Old 8th September 2022, 03:32 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Yep


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Nope. We don't know how he died. Suicide is speculation. Maybe he "fell down the stairs"?
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Old 8th September 2022, 04:25 PM   #34
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He dead though.
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Old 8th September 2022, 05:49 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Where do we focus when a mass shooter kills and then takes their own life?

I guess we don't know, since they are dead. Right?
In a lot of cases we can know, because the perpetrator left a manifesto, or a trail of posts on social media. I don't know if that is the case here. If it isn't, we may never know what motivated them.

What we do know is if they had used guns instead of knives, a lot more people would probably have died.
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Old 8th September 2022, 06:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
In a lot of cases we can know, because the perpetrator left a manifesto, or a trail of posts on social media. I don't know if that is the case here. If it isn't, we may never know what motivated them.

What we do know is if they had used guns instead of knives, a lot more people would probably have died.

So, and I've asked before, do you feel we need stricter controls on knives? I mean, if not, why not?

I mean, I'd say it is pretty obvious there are mental health issues involved. And a poor decision by the parole board, it would seem. Do you think these matters are of more significance than the particular weapon used?
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Old 8th September 2022, 06:11 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, and I've asked before, do you feel we need stricter controls on knives? I mean, if not, why not?
I refuse to answer on the grounds that is a stupid question.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I mean, I'd say it is pretty obvious there are mental health issues involved. And a poor decision by the parole board, it would seem. Do you think these matters are of more significance than the particular weapon used?
Why are you concerned about my personal heirarchy of significance? They guys used knives to kill some people. Do you dispute that if they had used guns, they would most likely have killed more people?
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Old 8th September 2022, 06:14 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, and I've asked before, do you feel we need stricter controls on knives? I mean, if not, why not?

I mean, I'd say it is pretty obvious there are mental health issues involved. And a poor decision by the parole board, it would seem. Do you think these matters are of more significance than the particular weapon used?
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I refuse to answer on the grounds that is a stupid question.

Why are you concerned about my personal heirarchy of significance? They guys used knives to kill some people. Do you dispute that if they had used guns, they would most likely have killed more people?

Ok, so you won't answer the question about restrictions on knives. It is fairly clear why.

I am asking about this specific case. I am not trying to make a case against gun control, as I have already stated that I do support additional measures.

I want to know what you think, outside of the weapon, might be some obvious reasons that this mass-killing occurred.
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Old 8th September 2022, 06:15 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I want to know what you think, outside of the weapon, might be some obvious reasons that this mass-killing occurred.
I have no idea? Do you?
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Old 8th September 2022, 06:22 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I have no idea? Do you?

As I already posted:

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This guy had 59 prior convictions, and a history of violence. Seems like a failure of the criminal justice system, and rehab efforts. Maybe he didn't belong on the street, after all?
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I mean, I'd say it is pretty obvious there are mental health issues involved. And a poor decision by the parole board, it would seem. Do you think these matters are of more significance than the particular weapon used?

Are you saying you dispute the above?

And I will ask one more time, do you think we need to place further restrictions on knives? Do you believe that could have stopped this crime? And if not, why not?

This is a totally legitimate question, as this ideology has been used in the UK.
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