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Old 23rd January 2015, 01:35 PM   #281
Wolrab
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
There won't be any math:


I suspect Jeffrey wants to keep the math out of it simply because he can't do the math. Neither can I; but I don't insist on overturning "establishment astronomy" (all of science, really) because of my ignorance. Jeffrey has got the most invincible case of Dunning-Kruger going on here I think I've ever seen.
You never met Dutch, eh?
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Old 23rd January 2015, 06:22 PM   #282
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If you follow the vixra link ins Jeffery's sig (and I'm not recommending it) at the bottom of the page is ...wait for it...a video. And in that video he explains what inspired his "theory". His epiphany occurred when he observed that a cross-section diagram showing the elemental layers of a massive star just before it goes supernova resembles, at least to him, a cross-section diagram showing the layers of the earth, from core to crust. Therefore planets are formed from stars. That's it.

Another example of "looks like a bunny" cosmology.

ferd
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Old 23rd January 2015, 07:21 PM   #283
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Reminds me of ten year old me thinking "what if the solar system is really just a fluorine atom in a much larger universe?"

As it turned out, I was wrong


ferd
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Old 23rd January 2015, 07:23 PM   #284
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Even GLP isn't biting.
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Old 24th January 2015, 06:55 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
You never met Dutch, eh?
The name rings a vague bell...
I guess when someone is that far gone with D-K, it's hard to compare; it's like trying to decide who is the looniest of the loons between Alex Jones and David Icke.
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Old 24th January 2015, 06:59 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
If you follow the vixra link ins Jeffery's sig (and I'm not recommending it) at the bottom of the page is ...wait for it...a video. And in that video he explains what inspired his "theory". His epiphany occurred when he observed that a cross-section diagram showing the elemental layers of a massive star just before it goes supernova resembles, at least to him, a cross-section diagram showing the layers of the earth, from core to crust. Therefore planets are formed from stars. That's it.

Another example of "looks like a bunny" cosmology.

ferd
He's trying to force all the evidence in the universe to fit a conclusion that was inspired by a cartoon? Now that's how you do science!
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Old 24th January 2015, 08:13 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
The name rings a vague bell...
I guess when someone is that far gone with D-K, it's hard to compare; it's like trying to decide who is the looniest of the loons between Alex Jones and David Icke.
Dutch championed Hyper Dimensional Physics. He would pick some event and use magic math to create a timeline. He then had a window of about a week...or so to shoehorn some future event, no matter how tangentially related or not to the original event, to prove his theory.

He was never wrong. Just ask him.
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Old 24th January 2015, 08:23 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Dutch championed Hyper Dimensional Physics. He would pick some event and use magic math to create a timeline. He then had a window of about a week...or so to shoehorn some future event, no matter how tangentially related or not to the original event, to prove his theory.

He was never wrong. Just ask him.
Ah. He sounds like Doronshadmi (really, you could pick at random just about any of his posts and get the same effect- I just like that one for the pretty wheels). You can never be wrong when you're not really saying anything at all.
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Old 25th January 2015, 01:15 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
Leavitt correctly identified the distance to the Large and Small Magellanic clouds a good 10 years before Hubble's measurement of M31.
Henrietta Leavitt discovered the relationship between galactic distances and Cephid variables using the SMC but did not measure the distance to the SMC or LMC. The SMC distance was measured by Ejnar Hertzsprung in 1913 as about 30,000 light years. I suspect that this distance was not large enough to eliminate the possibility that the SMC was orbiting the Milky Way, i.e. part of the galaxy. It was not until 2006 that Hubble telescope measurements suggested that the LMC and SMC were moving too fast to be orbiting us.
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Old 26th January 2015, 07:25 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
So how is the angular momentum lost Sir? Magic? God?
It was lost because angles are obtuse.
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Old 26th January 2015, 07:27 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
Yeah, they haven't been conditioned to being ridiculed as I have. I have 3 years of ridicule under my belt. I've hardened to the nonsense. Most here are probably soft and pudgy.
I am hard and shiny.
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Old 26th January 2015, 09:22 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
Yeah, they haven't been conditioned to being ridiculed as I have. I have 3 years of ridicule under my belt. I've hardened to the nonsense. Most here are probably soft and pudgy.
I can't help it. It's a thyroid condition.
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Old 27th January 2015, 01:16 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
It was lost because angles are obtuse.

Non Angeli, sed Angli?
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Old 4th February 2015, 11:07 AM   #294
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I have read the comments and they add nothing to the development of the general theory of stellar metamorphosis.

Makes one wonder why anybody is even commenting if they have nothing to add of practical significance.
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Planets are not formed from disks, that would be in violation of the conservation of angular momentum.

A "planet" is just an ancient star. They were never mutually exclusive.

http://vixra.org/abs/1205.0107
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Old 4th February 2015, 11:08 AM   #295
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The theory development must go on. I will continue to post new things as I find them and collect all the hateful comments here for good record keeping.

It helps to have all this recorded for future reference, just as long as the mods don't delete the thread.
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Planets are not formed from disks, that would be in violation of the conservation of angular momentum.

A "planet" is just an ancient star. They were never mutually exclusive.

http://vixra.org/abs/1205.0107
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Old 4th February 2015, 11:10 AM   #296
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To address the person who thinks I'm drunk as I narrate the videos, I'm not, I'm just very calm and very focused. They are two attributes to my personality which are probably vacant in the said poster.
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Planets are not formed from disks, that would be in violation of the conservation of angular momentum.

A "planet" is just an ancient star. They were never mutually exclusive.

http://vixra.org/abs/1205.0107
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Old 4th February 2015, 11:18 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
I have read the comments and they add nothing to the development of the general theory of stellar metamorphosis.

Makes one wonder why anybody is even commenting if they have nothing to add of practical significance.
It seems unlikely that anyone could add productively to your theory.
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Old 4th February 2015, 11:21 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
The theory development must go on. I will continue to post new things as I find them and collect all the hateful comments here for good record keeping.

It helps to have all this recorded for future reference, just as long as the mods don't delete the thread.
Do you really believe (as I have interpreted your views in the past) that "hateful" comments actually help prove that your theory is correct?

And of course you might wish to reconsider if corrections are the same as "hateful" because the former represent the huge majority of the posts that I have found on this thread.
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Old 4th February 2015, 11:23 AM   #299
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I think the most important thing for very future readers of this thread to learn is that "educated folk" and naysayers will always want their say. They will not ever pay attention to what is being written or spoken, they will never acknowledge the presenter in rational tones, and they will always strive to place a label on the presenter as if to marginalize their personality as some sort of disorder.

It is very natural behavior inside of individuals who are a part of groups. They have to attack the outsiders to protect the group mindset, kind of like a bee hive in a way. If you present an understanding which conflicts with what they believe, it does not matter if your insight is more advanced or explains phenomenon better.

They have to protect their minds, and they do this by attacking ideas which would cause any sort of cognitive dissonance. This thread is a prime example of that behavior, and is also an example of the treatment discoverers have had over the history of humanity.

I guess the task here, my task, is to allow for the unspoken mindful people who have not commented to pay close attention to what is happening. Its a great lesson on human behavior.
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Planets are not formed from disks, that would be in violation of the conservation of angular momentum.

A "planet" is just an ancient star. They were never mutually exclusive.

http://vixra.org/abs/1205.0107
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Old 4th February 2015, 11:25 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Do you really believe (as I have interpreted your views in the past) that "hateful" comments actually help prove that your theory is correct?

And of course you might wish to reconsider if corrections are the same as "hateful" because the former represent the huge majority of the posts that I have found on this thread.
You dismissed the theory out of hand before you even commented. How does any comment now help your case when it was made clear you have no interest in the development of the new understanding?

Why are you commenting is the real question?
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Planets are not formed from disks, that would be in violation of the conservation of angular momentum.

A "planet" is just an ancient star. They were never mutually exclusive.

http://vixra.org/abs/1205.0107
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Old 4th February 2015, 11:32 AM   #301
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I'm still here. Are there more people who have their two cents? It really doesn't affect my attitude or my level of determination of getting this idea heard.

BTW, scientists have already considered this idea and have already started to abandon ship:

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-potenti...n-gaseous.html

Maybe the naysayers and labelers who try to marginalize me needed a taste of their own medicine? Or maybe the statement, "How do you like them apples?!" is more appropriate?
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Planets are not formed from disks, that would be in violation of the conservation of angular momentum.

A "planet" is just an ancient star. They were never mutually exclusive.

http://vixra.org/abs/1205.0107
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Old 4th February 2015, 12:57 PM   #302
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How about answering the questions put forward to you?
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Old 4th February 2015, 01:00 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
You dismissed the theory out of hand before you even commented. How does any comment now help your case when it was made clear you have no interest in the development of the new understanding?

Why are you commenting is the real question?
How would you know that I dismissed your theory out of hand before I even commented? I don't recall communicating with you in any other way, before or after my comment; were you reading my mind?

I assume that you are really accusing me of dismissing your theory without thinking about it at all. No, I definitely seriously thought about it, but it didn't take a lot of time for me to realize that your theory does not match a huge number of facts that I and others already knew. I then noticed that you ignored most other posters when they attempted to ask why your theory fails to match the facts. For the most part, these were sincere questions that left you a lot of opportunity to explain how your theory really matches these facts, or for you to disagree with the facts themselves. This is why I don't believe that posting more information will help "develop" your theory.

I am not sure why I am posting here, but why are you and why are you rejecting helpful corrections if you hope for other posters to help develop your theory?
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Old 4th February 2015, 01:02 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
You dismissed the theory out of hand before you even commented. How does any comment now help your case when it was made clear you have no interest in the development of the new understanding?

Why are you commenting is the real question?
You quoted my question, but didn't answer it. Why are you collecting what you interpret as "hateful" responses to your theory? Do you believe that this collection will help establish the accuracy of your theory?
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Old 4th February 2015, 05:54 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
I'm still here. Are there more people who have their two cents? It really doesn't affect my attitude or my level of determination of getting this idea heard.
Now you're just being disingenuous. Your theory has been heard here, and the skepticism has been thunderous. You have simply refused to answer any questions about your theory, and the theory itself is so at odds with really simple truths (like the energy produced by water formation) that ANYBODY who reads it is going to ask the same questions. No, your determination is to get the idea accepted, and that's an entirely different kettle of fish. And until you learn a even a little bit of the pertinent science, your determination is, I predict, doomed to never be realized.

Quote:
BTW, scientists have already considered this idea and have already started to abandon ship:

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-potenti...n-gaseous.html

Maybe the naysayers and labelers who try to marginalize me needed a taste of their own medicine? Or maybe the statement, "How do you like them apples?!" is more appropriate?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but having read the article I see nothing that supports your theory in the slightest. Please explain. A few quotes from the article, along with your explication as to their significance would be a start.
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Old 4th February 2015, 07:04 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
I'm still here. Are there more people who have their two cents? It really doesn't affect my attitude or my level of determination of getting this idea heard.

BTW, scientists have already considered this idea and have already started to abandon ship:

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-potenti...n-gaseous.html

Maybe the naysayers and labelers who try to marginalize me needed a taste of their own medicine? Or maybe the statement, "How do you like them apples?!" is more appropriate?
Determination is an attitude.

It has nothing to do with validity of opinions or beliefs.

Unwavering determination in the face of contrary evidence is problematic, however - something that you appear to have tacitly acknowledged by avoiding dealing with the questions and presentations of contrary evidence in this thread.

The ongoing appeals to martyrdom, meanwhile, are are tiresome deflection fron the nub of the problem: your hypotheses are not supported by the evidence (not even the link you quoted - did you actually read it?).
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Old 4th February 2015, 09:20 PM   #307
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Jeffreyw, if you think "determination" and "rejection" are the most important skills about a self-appointed scientist: is it true that there are 4 simultaneous 24-hour Days within a single rotation of Earth? It must be true; the author of that theory is very, very determined and scientists have rejected him.
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Old 4th February 2015, 10:56 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by ben m View Post
Jeffreyw, if you think "determination" and "rejection" are the most important skills about a self-appointed scientist: is it true that there are 4 simultaneous 24-hour Days within a single rotation of Earth? It must be true; the author of that theory is very, very determined and scientists have rejected him.
Oh no you didn't!


That's the science version of "Godwining" a thread.

Bad Ben, bad.

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Old 5th February 2015, 09:17 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
I have read the comments and they add nothing to the development of the general theory of stellar metamorphosis.

Makes one wonder why anybody is even commenting if they have nothing to add of practical significance.
It seems unlikely that anyone could add productively to your theory.
Jeffrey's apparent idea that comments here are only supposed to "add...to the development of" his GTOSM might explain why he's ignoring comments that poke holes in or even just question it. To him, the only productive discussion of his idea can be one that begins with total acceptance of its basis. This isn't science, this is proselytizing from a faith; and he doesn't want his theology questioned, only fortified.

And it's not a little ironic that this is exactly what he accuses "establishment" science of doing so he can pose as Galileo when he's actually more like a phrenologist.
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Old 5th February 2015, 10:13 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
I think the most important thing for very future readers of this thread to learn is that "educated folk" and naysayers will always want their say. They will not ever pay attention to what is being written or spoken, they will never acknowledge the presenter in rational tones, and they will always strive to place a label on the presenter as if to marginalize their personality as some sort of disorder.

It is very natural behavior inside of individuals who are a part of groups. They have to attack the outsiders to protect the group mindset, kind of like a bee hive in a way. If you present an understanding which conflicts with what they believe, it does not matter if your insight is more advanced or explains phenomenon better.

They have to protect their minds, and they do this by attacking ideas which would cause any sort of cognitive dissonance. This thread is a prime example of that behavior, and is also an example of the treatment discoverers have had over the history of humanity.

I guess the task here, my task, is to allow for the unspoken mindful people who have not commented to pay close attention to what is happening. Its a great lesson on human behavior.
Future historians will also note that your post does nothing to support you theory and is just extra curricular
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Old 5th February 2015, 10:41 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
I think the most important thing for very future readers of this thread to learn is that "educated folk" and naysayers will always want their say. They will not ever pay attention to what is being written or spoken, they will never acknowledge the presenter in rational tones, and they will always strive to place a label on the presenter as if to marginalize their personality as some sort of disorder.

It is very natural behavior inside of individuals who are a part of groups. They have to attack the outsiders to protect the group mindset, kind of like a bee hive in a way. If you present an understanding which conflicts with what they believe, it does not matter if your insight is more advanced or explains phenomenon better.

They have to protect their minds, and they do this by attacking ideas which would cause any sort of cognitive dissonance. This thread is a prime example of that behavior, and is also an example of the treatment discoverers have had over the history of humanity.

I guess the task here, my task, is to allow for the unspoken mindful people who have not commented to pay close attention to what is happening. Its a great lesson on human behavior.
I have presented very stupid ideas to "more educated folks" multiple times over the past decades, and they almost always have been very patient in attempting to understand the reasons that I would think that way, if I might be correct in my idea, and in providing me with information that helped prove my idea, or when appropriate, help me figure out the real truth. I have found scientists particularly patient and non-judgmental in this way (much more so than my children or politicians, for example). I have from time to time been able to get acceptance for a truly new idea that negated prevailing views; I have found that if I had strong evidence and facts, most other scientists were excited by the new idea, rather than wanting to bury it.

Now I suspect that you might not believe this, even though it is true. In fact you have posted that resistance to your ideas must represent the emotional resistance of an elite establishment to any new concept. But whatever you believe, I assure you that if you worked on describing exactly how your theory better explains the known facts than pre-existing models, then more and more scientists will accept it as true. And of course your theory can't be contradicted by even one known fact without a logical explanation of why this apparent contradiction isn't really a contradiction. If you wish to show up the "scientific establishment" then make them accept your theory by your response to the concerns expressed here and by you providing the actual evidence in favor of your theory.

Last edited by Giordano; 5th February 2015 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 5th February 2015, 12:51 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I have presented very stupid ideas to "more educated folks" multiple times over the past decades, and they almost always have been very patient in attempting to understand the reasons that I would think that way, if I might be correct in my idea, and in providing me with information that helped prove my idea, or when appropriate, help me figure out the real truth. I have found scientists particularly patient and non-judgmental in this way (much more so than my children or politicians, for example). I have from time to time been able to get acceptance for a truly new idea that negated prevailing views; I have found that if I had strong evidence and facts, most other scientists were excited by the new idea, rather than wanting to bury it.
I would completly agree with you. Back in the day I recall having a light hearted chat to an astronomer about the new discovered GRBs that were making the news. I said "Wouldn't it be funny if we are detecting some alien races warp engines engaging"

Her response was "Right now that idea is as good as any other out there"

With a little time they got those suckers pinned down, but sadly my idea was not the winner
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Old 5th February 2015, 01:59 PM   #313
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One: "The planets are old stars that have spent their fuel"
Two: "What evidence is there that supports stars loosing enough mass to become planets?"
One"They laughed at Galileo!"
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Old 5th February 2015, 02:01 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
...

I guess the task here, my task, is to allow for the unspoken mindful people who have not commented to pay close attention to what is happening. Its a great lesson on human behavior.
Does this mean there is zero math and physics to support The General Theory of Stellar Metamorphosis, no evidence to deny fusion exists in the sun? Did anyone calculate the energy produce by the sun and see if The General Theory of Stellar Metamorphosis made up with nothing but fantasy matches the energy output? Where is the math? Physics? Science? It looks like The General Theory of Stellar Metamorphosis is based on imagination, nonsense, no science, no evidence.

An old lesson of human behavior from discussion of The General Theory of Stellar Metamorphosis; people make up nonsense based on imagination - not news, we can find better "science" in works of science fiction than we can in The General Theory of Stellar Metamorphosis.


Not science, fantasy...
Quote:
... they are not powered by fusion but are hollow shells that contract forming interiors that can be walked on in the future. Well, that's it for now.
Got some math and physics to back this up? No
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Old 5th February 2015, 03:06 PM   #315
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jeffreyw's theory would solve the problem of why the Earth is composed of electron-degenerate matter.
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Old 5th February 2015, 03:29 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
I guess the task here, my task, is to allow for the unspoken mindful people who have not commented to pay close attention to what is happening. Its a great lesson on human behavior.
But they better not switch from being unspoken to commenting using facts, or that will place them in the dreadful sheep-like scientific establishment that opposes jeffreyw's truth.

This is not the first thread that I've seen in this Forum in which a poster states that the many concerns posted by large number of expert individuals are not representative and are hiding an invisible reservoir of "lurkers" who fully agree with the OP. In the past, I pleaded with this invisible army to come forward. But so far, no invisible supporter of the OP has uncloaked.
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Old 5th February 2015, 03:59 PM   #317
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I will simply leave these here...
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthre...43#post2200343

http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthre...80#post2193880
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthre...-Metamorphosis
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthre...rfs-or-Planets

You can form your own conclusions.
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Old 6th February 2015, 01:02 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Not science, fantasy...

Quote:
... they are not powered by fusion but are hollow shells that contract forming interiors that can be walked on in the future. Well, that's it for now.

Of course, you would have to land at night when the surface is cooler.
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Old 8th February 2015, 04:22 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
I have read the comments and they add nothing to the development of the general theory of stellar metamorphosis.
Why do you think that anyone who knows anything about astrophysics (as many of the people here do) would want to develop a crank theory, jeffreyw?
We comment on this crank theory so that people who read this thread now and in the future can easily see just how invalid it is.

The debunking of that "theory" is simple
* white dwarf stars are 100,000's times heavier than planets like the Earth and there is no mechanism for them to lose enough mass to become rocky planets.
* white dwarf stars are not made of rock and so obviously cannot became rocky planets.
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Old 8th February 2015, 04:29 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by jeffreyw View Post
BTW, scientists have already considered this idea and have already started to abandon ship:

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-potenti...n-gaseous.html
FYI (since you seem not to have understood it), jeffreyw, that article has nothing to do with a crank idea about stars becoming planets.
Some potentially habitable planets began as gaseous, Neptune-like worlds is the argument that the same tidal forces that could make close-in rocky planets non-habitable could move mini-Neptune planets closer and habitable.

This is the scientific model of planetary formation + a mechanism to convert mini-Neptunes into possibly habitable planets.
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