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Old 17th February 2015, 12:22 PM   #41
Haig
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
How would they possibly know?

Because observations like this keep coming
Originally Posted by Rossim
In the standard model of jets being sublimating gas streams the most dense portion of the jet must be at the surface and dissipate farther out. However, in the following image of 67P I'm seeing more of a sprite pattern in the jet with the densest part a bit away from the surface.

67P from Rosetta: http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/i...015_NavCam.jpg

A sprite for comparison:
http://www.the-electric-universe.inf...s/image003.jpg


This could be a direct falsifying observation since sublimation requires a smooth gradient as the source is expelled. Hopefully some quality data is returned from the 6km fly-by.
'Welease Wosetta!'

As I say in the last line ...

The best is yet to come as 67P becomes more active electrically

Just wait a few months Ziggurat. I wonder what your excuse will be then ?

No comment on Comet Lovejoy Hit With Solar Eruptions ?
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Old 17th February 2015, 01:32 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Because observations like this keep coming
Still no quantification, I see.

"I'm seeing more of a sprite pattern in the jet with the densest part a bit away from the surface"

It looks like a bunny!

Tell me, Haig, how does Rossim infer density from that JPEG picture? Well, he can't, and he doesn't. He's just making **** up. He's got no idea what the density is, he's got no idea if it actually conflicts with the standard model, and just as importantly, he's got no idea if it conflicts with the ECH. Why? Because (again), just like everyone else on the ECH side, he can't quantify anything. Ever.
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Old 17th February 2015, 01:50 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Because observations like this keep coming
Sprites? Interesting. In the EDM model, the jets are debris being blown off by the discharges, so we'd expect the debris to go in a more-or-less hemispherical pattern from each individual discharge. That wouldn't lead to any clumping, and, in fact, the bits of debris would repel each other (similar charges) so we'd expect EDM debris to dissipate pretty evenly. And yet, according to this Rossim person, the debris is clumping.

Wouldn't that falsify EDM as the source for the coma?

Quote:

As I say in the last line ...

The best is yet to come as 67P becomes more active electrically

Just wait a few months Ziggurat. I wonder what your excuse will be then ?
ah. So you're speculating that as-yet-uncollected data will, in some unspecified way, support EC, and based on that speculation, you're gloating?

That's both classy and compelling.

(btw - I agree with Ziggurat that there's simply no way to make meaningful inferences about local coma densities based on that picture)
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Old 17th February 2015, 01:56 PM   #44
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Thumbs down Thunderbolts ignorance and lie in 67P's Mysterious Water Production video

Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Yes, fantastic indeed and more confirmation of the Electric Comet hypothesis ...
What a fantastic confirmation of the delusion that is the electric comet, Haig !

Looks like another ignorance, lying and/or deluded video from the Thunderbolts authors, e.g.
* there is nothing mysterious about the water production from 67P or other comets.
* they lie about the electric comet providing a better explanation - starting with the delusion that comets are rocks blasted recently from the surface pf planets is not an explanation!

The last one was Thunderbolts authors state that they have been fooled by Velikovsky's delusion
which needs to be added toThe ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site and videos.

Last edited by Reality Check; 17th February 2015 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 17th February 2015, 02:16 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Oh dear, Haig, lying about that source which has nothing to do with the electric comet !
Suspicious0bservers is not a great source of valid science but the narrator clearly states the facts - Comet Lovejoy's tail was disrupted (actually more like distorted according to his description). But then he goes on a fantasy about solar eruptions causing it with vague "eyeballing". That idea has nothing to so with a delusion that comets are rocks.

The science is that this is expected. Comet Lovejoy has even lost tails because of known physics:
Comet Q2 Lovejoy Loses Tail, Grows Another, Loses That One Too!
Quote:
Easy come, easy go. Comets usually have two tails, one of dust particles that reflect sunlight and another of ionized gases that fluoresce in Sun’s ultraviolet radiation. Ion tails form when cometary gases, primarily carbon monoxide, are ionized by solar radiation and lose an electron to become positively charged. Once “electrified”, they’re susceptible to magnetic fields embedded in the high-speed stream of charged particles flowing from the Sun called the solar wind. Magnetic field lines embedded in the wind drape around the comet and draw the ions into a long, skinny tail directly opposite the Sun.
Disconnection events happen when fluctuations in the solar wind cause oppositely directed magnetic fields to reconnect in explosive fashion and release energy that severs the tail. Set free, it drifts away from the comet and dissipates. In active comets, the nucleus continues to produce gases, which in turn are ionized by the Sun and drawn out into a replacement appendage.

Last edited by Reality Check; 17th February 2015 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 17th February 2015, 02:21 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Because observations like this keep coming
Wrong, Haig: Observations keep coming and you are citing ignorant people in the Thunderbolts forum making up fantasies about them .

That is not science - that is science fiction.

Last edited by Reality Check; 17th February 2015 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 17th February 2015, 08:39 PM   #47
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Thumbs down Thunderbolts ignorance, delusions and lies in 67P's Mysterious Water Production video

An illustration of the ignorance in that Thunderbolts video:
A temperature of -70°C on comet 67P/CG
Quote:
These preliminary measurements seem to support the notion that most of the nuclear surface is too hot (even though -70°C might seem to the man in the street to be very cold) to be made up of pure ice. It is presumably covered by some kind of dark, dust-like and pourous material,.

This result is extremely interesting, since it furnishes for the first time clues about the composition and the physical properties of a cometary surface.

These temperature measurements have been compared to temperatures of a theoretical model of a comet consisting mainly of water ice: the temperature measured on comet 67P/CG turns out to be 20 to 30 K higher than the temperature expected for an icy body.
The data came from July 2014 but the web page was last updated on 5 January 2015.

And what have we found: A dark, organics covered, dusty surface with no sign of surface water ice .
IOW confirmation of the mainstream model of comets.

Followed by
  • Argument from expressions of surprise by astronomers in press releases rather then actual science or electric comet predictions.
  • The idiocy of solar wind producing water on the Moon = solar wind producing the observed water on comets.
  • A lie about electric comet predictions - we already know there are none!
  • The delusion that water ice on the surface is the only source of jets.
  • More unsupported assertions.
  • A fantasy that comets are formed by colliding bodies.
  • A fantasy about a "blended" solar family of planets with their own histories - maybe the Venus erupted from Jupiter delusion?
  • The trivial fact that modern comet theory originated with a book by Kant in 1755. Followed by labeling science as dogma and the delusion that the Big Bang is a "rehash of Genesis" .
  • A slide of "Aztec and Maya: Venus, the Smoking Star, words for a comet", so definitely the delusion that Venus erupted from Jupiter as a comet!
  • A lie about the archetype of comets as a planet identified "globally as Venus". Many cultures knew the difference between comets and planets, e.g. the Greeks and Chinese.
  • More myths and planets hurling thunderbolts.
  • The delusion that comet 67P was born recently in a cosmic thunderbolt between planets.

Last edited by Reality Check; 17th February 2015 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 18th February 2015, 04:07 AM   #48
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WoW!

How good are those new close in pics of 67P?

Looks like even the deep fried ice cream is in deep as!

If you look at photo ESA_Rosetta_NAVCAM_20150214T1415_A from the hi res downloaded pics of the montage, rotate so the "hill" in the original image is in the top left and rotate it to the bottom right...


EDM in action my friends, EDM in action
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Old 18th February 2015, 05:33 AM   #49
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in action? where is the action?
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Old 18th February 2015, 08:12 AM   #50
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Indeed WoW!

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Looks like even the deep fried ice cream is in deep as!
Care to talk understandable English?

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
If you look at photo ESA_Rosetta_NAVCAM_20150214T1415_A from the hi res downloaded pics of the montage, rotate so the "hill" in the original image is in the top left and rotate it to the bottom right...
Done, I don't see anything that even remotely looks like EDM. I see rocklike structures with shadows, some stratification like structures on the (now) bottom right hill.
Care to enlighten us with with your insights, Sol88, with a detailed discussion of how you determined this EDM.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
EDM in action my friends, EDM in action
I guess EDM means "Extremely Defined Misunderstanding", and yes, we see that in action every time you post.
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Old 18th February 2015, 09:10 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
Indeed WoW!



Care to talk understandable English?



Done, I don't see anything that even remotely looks like EDM. I see rocklike structures with shadows, some stratification like structures on the (now) bottom right hill.
Care to enlighten us with with your insights, Sol88, with a detailed discussion of how you determined this EDM.



I guess EDM means "Extremely Defined Misunderstanding", and yes, we see that in action every time you post.
I think he means that the act of rotating the picture is something Electr(on)ic D??? M???? in action. You're basically animating a digital image, so to speak.
In other words, it's a BS comment.

Either that, or it seriously needs some explaining.
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Old 18th February 2015, 09:20 AM   #52
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Magnetic core fields found on earth, thus disproving the lamestream comet theory!

Pictures at 6:00!
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Old 18th February 2015, 11:45 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
WoW!

How good are those new close in pics of 67P?

Looks like even the deep fried ice cream is in deep as!

If you look at photo ESA_Rosetta_NAVCAM_20150214T1415_A from the hi res downloaded pics of the montage, rotate so the "hill" in the original image is in the top left and rotate it to the bottom right...


EDM in action my friends, EDM in action

Yes, they're wonderful pics, Sol, but the press release photos are not the science no matter how much you pretend they are. You want to redefine science as pareidolia, find-the-popes-in-the-pizza science because it allows you to pretend it confirms your predetermined bias for anti-science and Velikovskian superstition.

ECH supporters, as i think ben m said, love to drive the conversation to details and minutiae because then they don't have to answer the fundamental objection, why they don't have a working model or even a coherent narrative.

ferd
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Old 18th February 2015, 02:20 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
How good are those new close in pics of 67P?
Correct, Sol88 - a pity you follow this appreciation of science with blind faith in the Thunderbolts delusion of EDM on comets
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Old 18th February 2015, 05:04 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by ferd burfle View Post
Yes, they're wonderful pics, Sol, but the press release photos are not the science no matter how much you pretend they are. You want to redefine science as pareidolia, find-the-popes-in-the-pizza science because it allows you to pretend it confirms your predetermined bias for anti-science and Velikovskian superstition.

ECH supporters, as i think ben m said, love to drive the conversation to details and minutiae because then they don't have to answer the fundamental objection, why they don't have a working model or even a coherent narrative.

ferd


It's the 'ol convex-concave illusion!
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Old 18th February 2015, 05:06 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
It's the 'ol convex-concave illusion!
Which you must know is nothing to do with the Thunderbolts electric comet delusion so why did you mention their delusion, Sol88?
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Old 18th February 2015, 05:39 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Which you must know is nothing to do with the Thunderbolts electric comet delusion so why did you mention their delusion, Sol88?

The "hill" is not a stratification of a hill but a terraced crater! same as we see on the moon, Mars, Mercury...EDM

The very smooth area is the high area not the lowest depression and the "hills" are actually craters eat'n into the smooth area
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Old 18th February 2015, 06:00 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
It's the 'ol convex-concave illusion!

Non-sequitur

Or transparent dodge, take your pick.
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Old 18th February 2015, 06:57 PM   #59
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Can you recognize delusion cubed Sol88?

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The "hill"....
And still nothing to do with the Thunderbolts electric comet delusion so why did you are you repeatedly mentioning that delusion, Sol88?

You do know that an obvious delusion about comets being blasted off from planets, based on the delusion of thunderbolts between planets, based on the delusion that planets wander around in violation of the laws of physics is delusion cubed, Sol88?
Adding your own personal delusion that EDM creates terraced craters on comets is going to delusion to the fourth power !

Last edited by Reality Check; 18th February 2015 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 18th February 2015, 09:48 PM   #60
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rotated images HERE

Notice the boulders in the "Cove" set, rotate the photo and they are craters!!!
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Last edited by Sol88; 18th February 2015 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 18th February 2015, 09:58 PM   #61
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Boulders.

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Old 18th February 2015, 09:59 PM   #62
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same photo rotated...

Craters!!

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Old 18th February 2015, 10:01 PM   #63
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Concave-Convex illusion!!!


pitted terrain and not rubble field, as per the ELECTRIC COMET THEORY!

ELECTRIC DISCHARGE MACHINING

the surface is being sculpted by EM forces and NOT sublimating ICE!!
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Last edited by Sol88; 18th February 2015 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 19th February 2015, 02:00 AM   #64
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Okay, so now we finally know what the EDM is:

EDM = the concave-convex illusion

Thanks for clearing that up for us, Sol88!
It would have been so much easier for all of us if you had told us so in the OP six years ago.
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Old 19th February 2015, 02:23 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
Okay, so now we finally know what the EDM is:

EDM = the concave-convex illusion

Thanks for clearing that up for us, Sol88!
It would have been so much easier for all of us if you had told us so in the OP six years ago.




That would be of no fun at all Tusenfem!

Now we can see the scalloped edges, pitted terrain and terraced flat bottom craters, the gigs up Holger Seirks.

The lowly Navcam beat you too it!

Seems the deep-fried dirty snowball is dead in the water
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Old 19th February 2015, 05:09 AM   #66
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Can anyone explain to me which language Sol88 is writing in?
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Old 19th February 2015, 06:23 AM   #67
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I don't know what you're talking about, Sol, but rotating the images does not magically turn boulders into craters. The topology looks all wrong.
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Old 19th February 2015, 07:35 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
rotated images HERE

Notice the boulders in the "Cove" set, rotate the photo and they are craters!!!
False. The item you indicate with arrow and question is not a crater. It is a convex item. Compare the shadow of the indicated item with the shadows of every single other feature in the image. Your photo analysis is wrong.

But hey! Thanks for bumping the thread! That's useful too!
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Old 19th February 2015, 01:25 PM   #69
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Exclamation Sol88 shows his inability to understand a comet image

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
rotated images HERE

Notice the boulders in the "Cove" set, rotate the photo and they are craters!!!
Only if someone were stupid enough to only look at this one boulder, Sol88.

A knowledgeable person would look at the entire image and note the directions of the shadows on the cliffs, etc. It is a boulder.

A knowledgeable person would not be so deluded to think that an object on an image is both a boulder and a crater simultaneously. Or that just rotating an image would turn a boulder into a crater and vice versa.

A knowledgeable person would read what experts in interpreting astronomy images say the images contain - a boulder ! That person would even read what they are cited!
CometWatch 14 February – flyby special
Quote:
The closest images, taken shortly before (right) and after (above) the point of closest approach respectively, provide stunning details of the contrasting terrains that we have seen so far on the comet. Particularly notable in the image set taken at 14:15 UT (above) is the long, layered and fractured exposed surface at the lower left.

Towards the centre of the frame the faint outline of raised near-circular objects with smooth floors can be seen. In the same image, several angular blocks appear to jut out from beneath the surface. Boulders, ranging in size from a few metres to a few tens of metres, lie scattered across the whole surface of the comet. Here, in Imhotep, we see boulder Cheops towards the top centre of the mosaic
(my emphasis added)

A knowledgeable person would not have the delusion that this boulder is evidence of electrical discharge machining on a comet that is a rock because that is physically impossible.

But then a knowledgeable person would know that the electric comet is a delusion cubed and not make it into a delusion to the 4th power, Sol88.
Can you recognize delusion cubed Sol88?
The answer seems to be: not since 6th July 2009 !
Wow, it is getting close to 6 years of blind belief in the electric comet delusion on the Thunderbolts book advertisement web site!

Last edited by Reality Check; 19th February 2015 at 01:47 PM. Reason: rational changed to knowledgeable
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Old 19th February 2015, 01:31 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
Can anyone explain to me which language Sol88 is writing in?
It looks like Thornhill-talk !
It is Wal Thornhill that has the delusion that "scalloped edges, pitted terrain and terraced flat bottom" can only come from electrical discharges.
Sol88 is merely parroting the Thunderbolts dogma. Luckily Sol88 has merely exposed his total incompetence in interpreting astronomy images so we can treat any further "interpretations" as lies about the images to further his blind belief in the electric comet idea based on Velikovsky's delusion.

Last edited by Reality Check; 19th February 2015 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 19th February 2015, 01:37 PM   #71
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Thumbs down The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site and videos

The 17 items () in The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site and videos need updating.

18. 19 February 2015: Thunderbolts ignorance, delusions and lies in 67P's Mysterious Water Production video


Actually it is quite hard to find any Thunderbolts web page or video that is not full of ignorance, delusions or even lies. All I have seen is some pages on plasma science where only the delusion that anything they think looks like a Birkeland current is a Birkeland current raises its ugly head.

Haig or Sol88 - care to point out more ignorance, delusions or even lies contained in the Thunderbolts source that you are so obsessed with?

Last edited by Reality Check; 19th February 2015 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 20th February 2015, 06:53 AM   #72
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More ignorance for ya Reality Check!





As predicted...by the ELECTRIC COMET THEORY and UNEXPLAINABLE by a sublimating deep fried ice cream dirtysnowball theory
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Last edited by Sol88; 20th February 2015 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 20th February 2015, 07:08 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
More ignorance for ya Reality Check!

http://members.westnet.com.au/raptor...20-%20Copy.jpg

http://members.westnet.com.au/raptor...d%20Crater.jpg

As predicted...by the ELECTRIC COMET THEORY and UNEXPLAINABLE by a sublimating deep fried ice cream dirtysnowball theory
What was predicted? Why doesn't the common scientific model explain that surface? What a completely contentless quibble.
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Old 20th February 2015, 07:26 AM   #74
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Quote:
What was predicted? Why doesn't the common scientific model explain that surface? What a completely contentless quibble.
Predictions HERE

Quote:
SHARP SURFACE RELIEF
The electric model claims that the comas and tails of comets are generated by cathode arcs excavating surface material from the nucleus, in the fashion of electrical discharge machining (EDM) in industrial applications. The model predicts a sculpted surface, distinguished by sharply defined craters, valleys, mesas, and ridges—the opposite of the softened relief expected of a sublimating “dirty snowball”. (A chunk of ice melting in the Sun loses its sharp relief, just like a scoop of melting ice cream.)
like this pic of Tempel 1



With glow discharge!
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Last edited by Sol88; 20th February 2015 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 20th February 2015, 07:28 AM   #75
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Could you be bothered to specifically detail what it is you think you see here?
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Old 20th February 2015, 07:29 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post

As predicted...by the ELECTRIC COMET THEORY and UNEXPLAINABLE by a sublimating deep fried ice cream dirtysnowball theory
Care to explain in full detail what exactly is being shown here, except for a visual convex-concave illusion?
How is this illusion explained by the electric comet?
Oh wait no, the electric comet IS the illusion, I forgot.
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Old 20th February 2015, 07:43 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
A chunk of ice melting in the Sun loses its sharp relief, just like a scoop of melting ice cream.
What a monumentally stupid statement.

Do you know why "A chunk of ice melting in the Sun loses its sharp relief"? Because the surface tension of water acts to minimize surface area.

Does ice on a comet melt?

No, Sol, it does not melt. It sublimates. At no point is it ever in a liquid phase. As such, the dynamics of liquid phase surface tension are completely irrelevant.
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Old 20th February 2015, 08:33 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
What was predicted? Why doesn't the common scientific model explain that surface? What a completely contentless quibble.
Somebody has never cared to go someplace where snow and ice drifts and melts, they are just trolling

these pictures are all proof of EDM on glaciers
http://www.earthisland.org/journal/i...of_california/
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Old 22nd February 2015, 03:35 PM   #79
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Thumbs down Sol88: A lie about the model of comets not being able to explain strata

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
More ignorance for ya Reality Check!
Yes, Sol88,you are certainly spewing a lot of repeated ignorance.

The stupidity of rotating images as if that showed anything except your ignorance about which way up the image should be!

More delusions about the ELECTRIC COMET DELUSION explaining anything.

A lie about the electric comet delusion explaining strata.

A lie and incoherent gibberish. The scientific model of comets is able to explain strata. And if I thought that you were willing to learn it I would explain it to you (hint: sublimation + depositing of new material).

Last edited by Reality Check; 22nd February 2015 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 22nd February 2015, 03:44 PM   #80
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Thumbs down Sol88 still believes in the Thunderbolts ignorance, delusions and lies

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Predictions ..snipped Thunderbolts fantasies and lies...
The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site and videos and yet Sol88 still believes in the Thunderbolts ignorance, delusions and lies !

Sol88 cannot even understand the Thunderbolts web site- this page is a set of lies and fantasies about Deep Impact and Tempel 1 .
Other than the mythologist David Talbot's nonsense that he thought were predications, I have not seen any 67P predictions on the Thunderbolts web site.
Sol88 quoting a lie from that web page is even worse!

Lying about glow discharges in images you cannot comprehend is not good either, Sol88. What you see is pixel saturation from bright sources, e.g. surface ice.

Last edited by Reality Check; 22nd February 2015 at 03:51 PM.
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