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Old 13th March 2015, 12:33 AM   #201
Captain_Swoop
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But he used 'albedo' that sounds like a science word, it must be right!
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Old 13th March 2015, 12:59 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
If you are really sure that the jets become from EDM than your "bright patches of higher albedo" are NOT "higher albedo" (which means reflectivity) but are places where EDM is happening so light would be produced there not reflected. If you have an idiot theory, at least try to keep it a little consistent.
Like the ones reflecting from inside the shadow of Rosetta??

or on the surface of Hartley and Tempel??


Still leaves a rather large question for the mainstream to answer and now Ceres has joined the fray.

Unexplained bright patches in conjunction with H2O production and craters!!
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Old 13th March 2015, 04:18 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Like the ones reflecting from inside the shadow of Rosetta??

or on the surface of Hartley and Tempel??


Still leaves a rather large question for the mainstream to answer and now Ceres has joined the fray.

Unexplained bright patches in conjunction with H2O production and craters!!
why ask questions, when you are supposed to have the answers?
why not ask questions of your EC buddies, they should have the answers?
And how bright is bright?
and and and
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Old 13th March 2015, 04:27 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post

Unexplained bright patches in conjunction with H2O production and critters!!
FIFY
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Old 13th March 2015, 06:50 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
I bet he would declare them to be coffee grounds.
It would be an ELECTRIC coffee maker
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Old 13th March 2015, 06:56 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Like the ones reflecting from inside the shadow of Rosetta??
Learn the difference between umbra and penumbra and you'll know why "inside the shadow of rosetta" is still in direct sunlight.

Your EDM should be producing light from the dark side of the comet where there is no sunlight.
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Old 13th March 2015, 07:06 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
It would be an ELECTRIC coffee maker
Two drums and a high hat fell off the stage.
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Old 13th March 2015, 07:17 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
Learn the difference between umbra and penumbra and you'll know why "inside the shadow of rosetta" is still in direct sunlight.

Your EDM should be producing light from the dark side of the comet where there is no sunlight.
Yeah, that's also something, but as Sol88 does not understand the "physics" that he is quoting, it is useless to point such things out.
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Old 13th March 2015, 07:40 AM   #209
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And then KABAHM OSIRIS seems to find evidence for ice at or under the surface of the neck region.
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Old 13th March 2015, 07:44 AM   #210
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Quote
Unexplained bright patches in conjunction with H2O production and craters!!
/quote

How are the above features incompatible with ice sublimating and clearing the surface dust off localized patches?
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Old 13th March 2015, 08:43 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Unexplained bright patches in conjunction with H2O production and craters!!
In ECH, the EDM process kicks out rock dust which eventually combines with solar wind hydrogen to create H20. If the bright patches are directly producing H20, that would immediately falsify ECH while fitting very nicely with conventional theory.
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Old 13th March 2015, 03:59 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by phunk View Post
Learn the difference between umbra and penumbra....


NOTE:xkcd.com allows hotlinking.
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Old 14th March 2015, 08:04 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
Congrats. Now it's your turn to ignore the direct questions I asked haig: what specific features are specifically and exclusively characteristic of electrical activity.

You just have to ask nicely

Why Don't Comets Melt in the Sun?
Quote:
Sungrazer comets that survive perihelion extremely close to the Sun is a longstanding puzzle for comet science. In reality, observations going back centuries reveals that a comet’s activity has little or nothing to do with solar warming. Comets sometimes flare or even explode at impossibly vast distances from the Sun. What does the electric comet theory tell us about these enduring comet mysteries?

Mysterious Lovejoy Comets
Quote:
In the last few years, several of the comets discovered by astronomer Terry Lovejoy have provided astronomers on Earth with dramatic and unexpected displays. From the astonishing 2011 journey of comet c/2011 W3, which survived perihelion just 140,000 km above the Sun’s surface, to the recent observation of rapid changes in the plasma tail of comet C/2013 R1. What does the electric universe tell us about these puzzling comet discoveries?

“Baffling” Mars Plumes are Electric
Quote:
Science news headlines around the world tell of a baffling mystery on the planet Mars. In March of 2012, amateur astronomers spotted enormous plumes jetting from the Martian surface. The plumes were more than 250 KM high and several hundreds of kilometers in length. Similar bright, enormous plumes have occasionally been spotted on Mars since 1997, leaving astronomers completely flustered. What does the Electric Universe tell us about these highly energetic events on Mars?
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Old 14th March 2015, 08:23 AM   #214
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[skyrim courier]
Nope, sorry, nothing.
[/courier]

It seems to me you are unable to comprehend the question, based on the fact you keep "answering" with paragraphs ending in question marks, random links and frankly irrelevant speculative gibbering.
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Old 14th March 2015, 08:39 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
[skyrim courier]
Nope, sorry, nothing.
[/courier]

It seems to me you are unable to comprehend the question, based on the fact you keep "answering" with paragraphs ending in question marks, random links and frankly irrelevant speculative gibbering.

It seems to me you are unable to comprehend the answers

Look at those spirals!

Dust Whirls, Swirls and Twirls at Rosetta’s Comet

People starting to wake up and ask excellent questions!

Quote:
taygatayga March 10, 2015, 2:21 PM
If the activity surrounding the comet is due to heating why is it majorly associated with the neck region which is in shadow more often than the lobes? Also, there is evidently no sign of water ice on the comet surface; is it water that is detected in the coma or a proxy which is assumed to indicate the presence of water and, if so, could there be another source

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Old 14th March 2015, 08:51 AM   #216
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Again with the links and breathless gibbering?

I'm asking again, relating to the link you just posted: what specific features in the 4 images are exclusive of electrical activity, and b) what exclusive and specific features of sublimation driven activity should be present in a non-electric model that are absent.

This should be easy for you, and if you need help you have the entire internet at your fingertips plus whatever help you might get at the electric whatever forum.

Are you really the best and brightest your "theory" has to offer? If I were on the fence about this subject your clueless arm flailing would certainly cause me to doubt your case.
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Old 14th March 2015, 09:00 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
Again with the links and breathless gibbering?

I'm asking again, relating to the link you just posted: what specific features in the 4 images are exclusive of electrical activity, and b) what exclusive and specific features of sublimation driven activity should be present in a non-electric model that are absent.

This should be easy for you, and if you need help you have the entire internet at your fingertips plus whatever help you might get at the electric whatever forum.

Are you really the best and brightest your "theory" has to offer? If I were on the fence about this subject your clueless arm flailing would certainly cause me to doubt your case.

Not so fast!

I've given answers to your questions if you can't understand them, that's tough

How about you trying to answer the questions posted above and again here ... in case you get confused

Quote:
taygatayga March 10, 2015, 2:21 PM
If the activity surrounding the comet is due to heating why is it majorly associated with the neck region which is in shadow more often than the lobes? Also, there is evidently no sign of water ice on the comet surface; is it water that is detected in the coma or a proxy which is assumed to indicate the presence of water and, if so, could there be another source?
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Old 14th March 2015, 09:02 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
It seems to me you are unable to comprehend the answers

Look at those spirals!

Dust Whirls, Swirls and Twirls at Rosetta’s Comet

People starting to wake up and ask excellent questions!
If the water in the coma is being formed by solar wind hydrogen combining with oxygen liberated by EDM (per ECH), shouldn't we expect a lot of the liberated oxygen would be monatomic rather than O2, leading to a lot of OH in the coma? Wouldn't we expect mostly O and O2 near the nucleus, with OH and H20 farther out?

The linked article mentions a lot of CO and CO2 in the coma, sometimes even dominating the H2O. Under ECH, does that mean that sometimes the solar wind is predominantly carbon rather than hydrogen?

ETA: Or are these not "excellent questions?"
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Old 14th March 2015, 09:16 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
If the water in the coma is being formed by solar wind hydrogen combining with oxygen liberated by EDM (per ECH), shouldn't we expect a lot of the liberated oxygen would be monatomic rather than O2, leading to a lot of OH in the coma? Wouldn't we expect mostly O and O2 near the nucleus, with OH and H20 farther out?

The linked article mentions a lot of CO and CO2 in the coma, sometimes even dominating the H2O. Under ECH, does that mean that sometimes the solar wind is predominantly carbon rather than hydrogen?

ETA: Or are these not "excellent questions?"

Ask what you think are "excellent questions?" HERE if you really want answers

Quote:
Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'
Postby GaryN » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:48 pm

"Comets do not need perihelion solar heat to flare up. The scant trace of ice isn't sublimating to create the coma as they describe it. If anything, the ice is deposited onto the surface as some of the created water vapor falls back. This is the reverse of what ESA believes."

And I believe you are more likely correct.
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Old 14th March 2015, 09:31 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Ask what you think are "excellent questions?" HERE if you really want answers
Nothing on that page addressed the chemical composition of the coma or the solar wind.

If you understand the ECH concepts well enough to defend them, then defend them. If you don't, why do you think they're more correct than the mainstream?
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Old 14th March 2015, 09:35 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Not so fast!

I've given answers to your questions if you can't understand them, that's tough

Perhaps you are using a different meaning of the word "answer" than I'm used to. Random youchump links fall far outside my expectation of a list or narrative describing specific and unique features of electrical activity.
Quote:
How about you trying to answer the questions posted above and again here ... in case you get confused
The cortex of space crap coating the comet is thinner (and probably absent in areas) where the two lobes meet. You like making stuff up, so here goes.

Once upon a time there were two comets. They met, fell into gravitational attraction with one another and combined as one to travel the vast cold wastes of deep space together, no longer lonely, joined in a sacred bond of gravitational compression and atomic cross linking of ice crystals. Together they fell back toward the sun from the cold dark. Is this now their first trip to the sun together, or have they made this conjoined journey before? We don't know yet, but the area where they are joined has been protected lo these many years from accretion of space crap. And those areas where the cortex of space crap is thinner - from less years of accretion - are less insulated from sunshine.

And meanwhile, one of the unique characteristics of electrical activity is missing - the fact that electrons like to jump off sharp point much more than leaping up from the bottom of a valley or bowl.
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Old 14th March 2015, 09:45 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
Perhaps you are using a different meaning of the word "answer" than I'm used to. Random youchump links fall far outside my expectation of a list or narrative describing specific and unique features of electrical activity.

You need to get out more

Quote:
The cortex of space crap coating the comet is thinner (and probably absent in areas) where the two lobes meet. You like making stuff up, so here goes.

Once upon a time there were two comets. They met, fell into gravitational attraction with one another and combined as one to travel the vast cold wastes of deep space together, no longer lonely, joined in a sacred bond of gravitational compression and atomic cross linking of ice crystals. Together they fell back toward the sun from the cold dark. Is this now their first trip to the sun together, or have they made this conjoined journey before? We don't know yet, but the area where they are joined has been protected lo these many years from accretion of space crap. And those areas where the cortex of space crap is thinner - from less years of accretion - are less insulated from sunshine.

And meanwhile, one of the unique characteristics of electrical activity is missing - the fact that electrons like to jump off sharp point much more than leaping up from the bottom of a valley or bowl.

Imaginative, but still doesn't answer the questions ...

Quote:
taygatayga March 10, 2015, 2:21 PM
If the activity surrounding the comet is due to heating why is it majorly associated with the neck region which is in shadow more often than the lobes? Also, there is evidently no sign of water ice on the comet surface; is it water that is detected in the coma or a proxy which is assumed to indicate the presence of water and, if so, could there be another source?
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Old 14th March 2015, 09:51 AM   #223
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Nearly every answer you post is either a youchump EW bible thumper video or breathless speculative opinions of other people, frequently ending in a question.

Stop it. Answer one question, just once, in your own words with no emoji:
What specific characteristics of electrical activity are mutually exclusive of sublimation driven activity?
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Old 14th March 2015, 10:21 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
Nearly every answer you post is either a youchump EW bible thumper video or breathless speculative opinions of other people, frequently ending in a question.

Stop it. Answer one question, just once, in your own words with no emoji:
What specific characteristics of electrical activity are mutually exclusive of sublimation driven activity?

I'll give you three answers (with examples) that convince me in the absence of ANY better explanation ...

The size of a comets coma in relation to the size of it's nucleus

The length of a comets tail remaining attached to the coma/nucleus despite ALL even regrowing when detached by solar activity

The jets emanating from the nucleus
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Old 14th March 2015, 10:36 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
I'll give you three answers (with examples) that convince me in the absence of ANY better explanation ...

The size of a comets coma in relation to the size of it's nucleus
All right, just taking the first one, what is it about the size of Holmes' coma that convinces you that ECH is correct?
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Old 14th March 2015, 11:14 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by dasmiller View Post
All right, just taking the first one, what is it about the size of Holmes' coma that convinces you that ECH is correct?

What is it about sublimation that convinces you that it can produce a coma that's sometimes bigger than the Sun ?


The Electric Universe—A Study in Contrasts

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Old 14th March 2015, 11:35 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
What is it about sublimation that convinces you that it can produce a coma that's sometimes bigger than the Sun ?
That's it? No reason given? You're convinced by the large Holmes coma that ECH is a better explanation, but can't give any explanation of why that coma fits ECH better than mainstream?


In answer to your question: You're asking me defend a position I have not taken. I have never cited the size of Holmes' coma as evidence against ECH. It's not obvious to me what the size limit would be for either ECH or mainstream theory.
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Old 14th March 2015, 11:36 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Specifics in your own words = links to unrelated information?

I begin to understand you.

None of your links even address the general essence of my question.

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Old 14th March 2015, 11:38 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
What is it about sublimation that convinces you that it can produce a coma that's sometimes bigger than the Sun ?


The Electric Universe—A Study in Contrasts
What is it about sublimation that convinces you a cloud of diffuse particles spreading in absolute vacuum must be smaller than some arbitrary other thing?
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Old 14th March 2015, 11:40 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post

Why Don't Comets Melt in the Sun?

Quote:
Sungrazer comets that survive perihelion extremely close to the Sun is a longstanding puzzle for comet science. In reality, observations going back centuries reveals that a comet’s activity has little or nothing to do with solar warming. Comets sometimes flare or even explode at impossibly vast distances from the Sun. What does the electric comet theory tell us about these enduring comet mysteries?
time 0:44

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Old 14th March 2015, 12:12 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
What is it about sublimation that convinces you a cloud of diffuse particles spreading in absolute vacuum must be smaller than some arbitrary other thing?

Here is something that should give you a clue ...

Comets
Quote:
Comets are not made out of water and ice; they are made out of rock.

They discharge a plasma coma due to the rapidly changing electrical field they are moving through.

Since they spend most of their time in the outer solar system, they acquire a charge relative to that environment. As it approaches the Sun’s electrical field, it has to equalize its charge rapidly which causes the discharging we see as comet tails.
Quote:
"There's a lot of structure on the comet, which is a bit surprising," Richardson said. "That could mean there's some strength to the comet.
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Old 14th March 2015, 12:46 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Here is something that should give you a clue ...
No. Don't give us a clue, or a hint, or something tangentially related. Just tell us why.

The linked page that you provided doesn't say anything about the size of the coma.
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Old 14th March 2015, 12:58 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Here is something that should give you a clue ...

Comets
Unsupported Assertion by Copypasta. If a comet is indeed rock as per your gullibly repeated thoughts of others then yes, a cloud of diffuse particles would be a difficult thing to explain. But you have not proven comets are rocks so you don't get to use that "fact" as proof of anything. Presenting one supposition as proof of another doesn't even rise to the level of circular logic.

Fail.
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Old 14th March 2015, 01:35 PM   #234
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"If the activity surrounding the comet is due to heating why is it majorly associated with the neck region which is in shadow more often than the lobes? Also, there is evidently no sign of water ice on the comet surface; is it water that is detected in the coma or a proxy which is assumed to indicate the presence of water and, if so, could there be another source?"

Erm, because there is ice there? You obviously didn't see Tusenfem's post a little above yours. From the Rosetta blog of 13 March:
"It is clear from this image that indeed Hapi reflects red light less effectively than most other visible regions on the comet and thus appears slightly blue-ish. Importantly, this blue-ish colouring might point to the presence of frozen water ice at or just below the dusty surface of Hapi."
Results were from the OSIRIS instrument, not a pseudo-scientific website peddling gobblydegook and faith based nonsense relying on zero scientific data.
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Old 14th March 2015, 01:58 PM   #235
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Haig, why don't the Thunerbolts people take all the money they spend on CGI to make their fact-free cartoons and spend it on gathering data to develop their model? One starts to think it's all done to attract cranks and the ignorant.
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Old 14th March 2015, 05:38 PM   #236
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Haig, is it your position that sublimation of ice couldn't release water fast enough to form a huge coma, but EDM can release oxygen from rock fast enough (when combined with solar wind hydrogen) to form such huge comas? If yes, say so. If not, just say exactly what you mean, rather than giving us "clues", links, or copy-pasted text.
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Old 15th March 2015, 03:43 AM   #237
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I would still like to see Haig come up with a real calculation that the reaction rate of the loosened oxygen from the cometary surface and the protons of the solar wind is fast enough to actually create so much hydroxyl around the comet. Naturally, that would have to include also an esitmate of how much oxygen is produced by EDM.

Unfortunately, Haig can only copypaste texts that are only sideways relevant, and even though this thread is 6 years old, and there are several older threads with EC discussions embedded in EU themes, there is NOT EVEN A HINT OF A BACK OF THE ENVELOPE CALCULATION for the water (hydroxyl) production. Not even on Thunderdolts, where apparently all the "experts" on Electic Universe are coming together.

Also my question about what would be the signature of EDM in the fields instruments gets ignored constantly, probably because they don't understand what an actual discharge would be doing in the field of EM radiation production.

It is pointless to discuss wit Haig or with Sol88 because they don't have even the most basic knowledge of physics, and they can only copypaste what they cherrypick from google searches, heck, even Talbott did not help these poor souls, and disappeared after a week or three (with friends like this, who needs ISF adversaries).
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Old 15th March 2015, 06:04 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post

It is pointless to discuss wit Haig or with Sol88 because they don't have even the most basic knowledge of physics, and they can only copypaste what they cherrypick from google searches, heck, even Talbott did not help these poor souls, and disappeared after a week or three (with friends like this, who needs ISF adversaries).
"They" don't need that. It's just for training and to show followers "they" can discuss as equals with "the scientific crowd", being that "equal" equivalent to just having a ping-pong ball moving without caring where it bounces on and regardless a point is scored. And to achieve that "they" just need this forum rules.

The whole situations reminds me the Slovak angelologist who use these fora in a similar way. He departed from a preconception, tried several approaches and finally got a statistical device used out of context to produce artifactual noise which he was able to read as tea leaves. The long discussion is immaterial, as he used it in his website as propaganda in "Is angelology of history a bogus?" (the old "something was discussed ... we're still here"). This year a British disciple of his briefly continued that debate. She stopped participating after her first suspension. You may find her posts in Abandon all Hope.

The practical result for Haig/Sol88 (litewave/Emil Pales in the comparing thread) is "them" having links from "their supporters' " pointing to their web production, while none is pointing there from a sceptical source anathematizing what "they" claim.

Never underestimate "dudes" who can have a group of fellows in a picture, all of them jumping at the same time while they hold a stupid expression.
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Old 15th March 2015, 03:53 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
You just have to ask nicely
Answering nicely with actual science rather than videos would be good, Haig.
Knowing that Mars is not a comet would be better !
We know that you will never understand that the Thunderbolts authors are ignorant about comets, deluded about comets and even lie about comets:
EC proponents trust a web site that lies to its readers about "confirmed" predictions: The lies, failures and successes of Thunderbolts Deep Impact predictions.
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Old 15th March 2015, 04:07 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Haig View Post
Dust Whirls, Swirls and Twirls at Rosetta’s Comet

People starting to wake up and ask excellent questions!
An excellent question from a commenter with an excellent answer AFAIK:
Firstly: The neck need not be "in shadow more often than the lobes". The lobes shadow each other as well as the neck. Two of the images in that article clearly show the neck being as bright as the lobes.
Secondly: The neck is connected to the lobes. The neck has a smaller volume than the lobes. A smaller volume takes a smaller time to heat up than a larger volume (the lobes). So the heating of the lobes by the Sun may cause a faster heating of the neck.
Thirdly: It is possible that the neck is a different composition and structure than the lobes, e.g. more loosely compacted ices and dust with a greater proportion of ices.

ETA: The question is also answered in the comments:
Quote:
Bob King March 10, 2015, 2:55 PM
Taygatayga,
That is an excellent question. It would seem that more ice must be near the surface or possibly exposed there than in other places. Since the comet is rotating, the photos only show one quick view at a time, so the region no doubt spends some time in sunlight during its 12.4 hour rotation. Actual water has been detected in the coma along with carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide.
ETA:
Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post

Last edited by Reality Check; 15th March 2015 at 04:22 PM.
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