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Old 30th March 2017, 08:46 AM   #81
Billy Baxter
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

thank you for your continued engagement, and your kind replies.

I find myself with, in fact, yet another question:

Have you any concrete, empirical, objective evidence for your assertions?

I remain, bemusedly yours &ct.
There are LDS apologetics sites such as FAIR, SHIELDS, The Maxwell Institute, lds.org and mormon.org for starters.

ETA: Also, this upcoming weekend is General Conference wherein modern prophets and Apostles speak to the world on BYU TV and lds.org .

bb

Last edited by Billy Baxter; 30th March 2017 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 30th March 2017, 08:46 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Again, God provides the proof when you read, study and pray about the Book of Mormon.

bb
Except when he doesn't. Which tends to be when people who are not particularly desperate or suggestible try it.
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Old 30th March 2017, 08:51 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
There are LDS apologetics sites such as FAIR, SHIELDS, The Maxwell Institute, lds.org and mormon.org for starters.

bb
You do understand that "(largely pretty pathetic) attempts to rationalize away all the evidence that the Book of Mormon is a clumsy fake" and "concrete, empirical, objective evidence for your assertions" are two very different things, right?
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Old 30th March 2017, 08:58 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
There are LDS apologetics sites such as FAIR, SHIELDS, The Maxwell Institute, lds.org and mormon.org for starters.

ETA: Also, this upcoming weekend is General Conference wherein modern prophets and Apostles speak to the world on BYU TV and lds.org .

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

I trust you merely misread, or misapprehended, my question, rather than think you intentionally avoided answering it in a responsive manner.

Please allow me to elucidate:

Others' assertions, even collections of others' assertions, do not constitute objective evidence. Have you, in fact, any concrete, practical, empirical, objective evidence to offer, in support of your claims?

I remain, semantically yours & ct.
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Last edited by Slowvehicle; 30th March 2017 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 30th March 2017, 09:44 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Read the Book of Mormon, read Moroni 10:3-5 and pray about it. God provides the proof, not me or any mortal person...........
No, no, no, and bollocks. I'm after testable, falsifiable, repeatable evidence. Not some self-serving nonsense in a book of nonsense.
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Old 30th March 2017, 09:51 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

I trust you merely misread, or misapprehended, my question, rather then think you intentionally avoided answering it in a responsive manner.

Please allow me to elucidate:

Others' assertions, even collections of others' assertions, do not constitute objective evidence. Have you, in fact, any concrete, practical, empirical, objective evidence to offer, in support of your claims?

I remain, semantically yours & ct.
Which claims? TOBS or Mormonism or the existence of God?

bb
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Old 30th March 2017, 09:57 AM   #87
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Does God communicate to us through scientists?
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Old 30th March 2017, 10:00 AM   #88
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As an aside. I always felt that an angel named "Moroni" must have been a preemptive inoculation against future guffaws.

"He was called The Angel Idjit—"
"No can do. Try again."
"Alright, The Angel Yousukkas?"
"Better. Mayhap transparent."
"Very well. The Angel Thickasbrick."
"Try again."
"You make me work, O bottom of my hat."
"I do. Ask Potter about it someday."
"You speak in riddles. How about The Angel Rippof!"
"Beret nicely done, however it tips its hat."
And so on.
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Old 30th March 2017, 10:05 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Which claims? TOBS or Mormonism or the existence of God?

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

Oh, dear...we appear to be drifting.

While it is true that your assertions about all of these things are much of a muchness, and intrinsically related, the specific assertion for which I requested empirical, practical, concrete, objective evidence was your assertion that your 'god' does, in fact, exist.

Suppose, just for clarity, you answer that question first; the others may be addressed as needed.

I remain, pedagogically yours &ct.
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Old 30th March 2017, 10:05 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Prayer is a more excellent method of communication with God and nothing can replace it. TOBS is supplementary to faith.
Do you mean prayer is a square meal while TOBS is a vitamin pill: hyped and mostly useless?
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Old 30th March 2017, 10:29 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Again, God provides the proof when you read, study and pray about the Book of Mormon.

bb
Read it. Found it trivially amusing. As fakery goes, it isn't even a convincing fake.
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Old 30th March 2017, 10:33 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
TOBS is not divination, as it seeks information directly from God rather than from spirits. There's a big difference, although I do see your point. Prayer is a more excellent method of communication with God and nothing can replace it. TOBS is supplementary to faith. I believe it is a schoolteacher that leads to Christ, like the Law of Moses.

bb
HaHaHa. Your god is that ineffectual? HaHaHa.
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Old 30th March 2017, 10:38 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Which claims? TOBS or Mormonism or the existence of God?

bb
There is a hierarchy there. TOBS is based on mormonism which is in turn based on some deity.

That puts the onus of proof squarely on you. To prove TOBS, you must prove Mormonism. To prove Mormonism you must prove the claims of JS. To prove the claims of JS you must prove a god.

If you cannot prove a god from the start, you have no standing, for without the requisite god all further claims are moot.
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:04 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
right knee = good intentions

wrist = you're going about something the wrong way

bb
They still hurt.
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:05 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
straw man is a logical fallacy wherein one party builds an argument that the proponent does NOT present and then proceeds to tear it down.

bb
Now that you've read the flash card, refrain from misusing the term,
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:08 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

thank you for your continued engagement, and your kind replies.

I find myself with, in fact, yet another question:

Have you any concrete, empirical, objective evidence for your assertions?

I remain, bemusedly yours &ct.
Reproducible too!
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:09 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Which claims? TOBS or Mormonism or the existence of God?

bb
The proof against a divine god is the fact that you're still posting here.

I have it on good authority that prayers have not been answered wrt this question.
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Old 30th March 2017, 11:58 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
What a heartless man, allowing all the little children who are in pain right now (thanks to your heartless God) to continue to suffer when you can offer them relief.

Shame on you!
Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Where did that attack come from? I donate regularly to charitable causes (and I suppose someone will diss me for tooting my own horn for saying so!). You can't win for losing--either I'm heartless for giving a fictional story that mentions abuse, or I'm a hypocrite for mentioning the fact that I pay tithing.

sheesh!

bb
I think that "attack" came from the fact that you say here that you can stop pain:
Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Anyway, I know how to stop virtually any pain that is manifesting as a body signal--if not permanently, then at least temporarily.

bb
Although you give yourself a couple of outs by saying that you can stop "virtually" any pain that is manifesting as part of your BS theory.
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Old 30th March 2017, 12:33 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I wonder if TOBS can be used to diagnose mental illness? It seems to be the answer to everything else according to its inventor, so why not?
Between TOBS and The Magic Magee, we'll never again feel discomfort.

Hey, Billy? Are you going to go for another suspension this time, or will you go all out and get banned?

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Old 30th March 2017, 12:41 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I'm not trying to prove TOBS scientifically here right now. It's a matter of "Look what I've discovered! It can take your chronic pain away." The proof is in the pudding. John 7:17.

I didn't get my classes paid for, so my education will have to wait.

bb
Well, did you at least join that Muslim forum I pointed you to?

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Old 30th March 2017, 01:38 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Sven is a fictional construct. I'm extrapolating the BS's he is likely to incur (greatly simplified for clarity).

bb
Why extrapolate 'likely' fictional body signals you imagine that a fiction construct would incur when you can use actual body signals that an actual person is incurring?
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Old 30th March 2017, 01:45 PM   #102
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Because he claims he can't ask people to help him with his experiment.
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Old 30th March 2017, 01:58 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Because he claims he can't ask people to help him with his experiment.
More odd, he claims to never interact with anyone. Personally, I doubt it. At the very least he must venture forth to the local store for a bottle of milk/water/pineapple juice/whatever. Some interaction must be happening. How could it not?
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Old 30th March 2017, 02:12 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
God provides a witness which is described as a burning in the bosom, that we shall feel that it is right and true in our hearts.

bb
And you "know" that witness is reliable how?
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Old 30th March 2017, 02:20 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
how am i being dishonest? Anecdotes are valid object lessons, even if fictional.

bb
How so?
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Old 30th March 2017, 02:27 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
He gave me a testimony that he is there and that the Book of Mormon is true over the years piecemeal.

bb
As is more than established in threads on Mormonism, the BoM is factually incorrect in the matters of history and Archeology it addresses. It therefore is not evidence for a god.
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Old 30th March 2017, 02:35 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
God provides a witness which is described as a burning in the bosom, that we shall feel that it is right and true in our hearts.

bb
That is simple indigestion.
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Old 30th March 2017, 02:44 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Why don't you think that an all-powerful God can make a muscle twitch?

bb
God is a bullet?
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Old 30th March 2017, 02:48 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
God is a bullet?
Or possibly a random atmospheric static discharge. Either way, BB is not remotely clear.

In summary, we have reached the claim that god is "something". We have not progressed further.
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Old 30th March 2017, 02:56 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
right knee = good intentions

wrist = you're going about something the wrong way

bb
left eye = my baby, she's got a black cat bone

according to Buddy Guy
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Old 30th March 2017, 02:57 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
left eye = my baby, she's got a black cat bone

according to Buddy Guy
One eye. I need tissues.
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Old 31st March 2017, 12:26 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Read the Book of Mormon, read Moroni 10:3-5 and pray about it. God provides the proof, not me or any mortal person.

bb
I was brought up a Catholic, and prayed with a sincere heart every night from an early age until I was 14. At no point did your god show me anything at all. No signs from the Holy Ghost. No voices. No writing on the wall. No burning bushes. Nothing.
As this clearly didn't work for me, and, given my disbelief in invisible wizards, is unlikely to happen in the future, I'll have to turn to a true believer instead.
Can I ask you, then, what proof was provided to you when you prayed?
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Old 31st March 2017, 12:27 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Would it be OK with you if MikeG used made-up evidence to support his claim?
Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
sure

ETA: it probably wouldn't convince me, but it would give me something to pick apart.

bb
Can you see what you did here?
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Old 31st March 2017, 01:43 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Read the Book of Mormon, read Moroni 10:3-5 and pray about it. God provides the proof, not me or any mortal person.

bb
No; your book is factually incorrect.
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Old 31st March 2017, 02:00 AM   #115
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So in a nutshell, god provides proof that god exists, in a work of fiction.

I'm convinced.
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Old 31st March 2017, 02:59 AM   #116
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yawn

I am way behind and need some sleep. I'd suggest that if y'all want to have a spiritual witness that God is real, read and pray about the Book of Mormon. Even if you think it;s factually incorrect. I promise you it'll be time well-spent.

I have a doctor's appointment in the morning, so I'm off to bed.

bb
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Old 31st March 2017, 03:11 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I promise you it'll be time well-spent.
That promise has already been broken for me, and countless others.

The fact that you are among those who are able to self induce the expected reaction does not mean anyone here will be, so please do not make promises you cannot keep.
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Old 31st March 2017, 03:23 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
yawn

I am way behind and need some sleep. I'd suggest that if y'all want to have a spiritual witness that God is real, read and pray about the Book of Mormon. Even if you think it;s factually incorrect. I promise you it'll be time well-spent.

I have a doctor's appointment in the morning, so I'm off to bed.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

At the risk of offending your sensibilities, may I point out that you have yet to address my actual question? ...and you were doing so well...

Am I to take it, from this "response" post, that you do not, in fact, have any objective, concrete, practical, empirical, non-anecdotal evidence for the mere existence of your 'god', much less of its piussance?

I will, for the nonce, overlook the inherent circularity (and impotence) of the argument that the only reason one might not be taken in by (for instance) the BOM would be that one has not "studied" it enough.

I do hope you will repent you of your decision to surrender, and present actual evidence for the existence of your 'god'.
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Old 31st March 2017, 04:24 AM   #119
Pixel42
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Before we arouse the ire of the moderators, can I just remind everyone that the thread to discuss Mormonism is here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=267950

The subject of this thread is BB''s assertion that TOBS can alleviate pain. Perhaps he could go into a little more detail as to how this might work, and how he proposes to demonstrate that it does. Is he claiming psychological benefit only (I.e. that it could be used as a placebo) or an actual objective reduction in pain? How would a sufferer go about obtaining the relief? And so on.
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Old 31st March 2017, 04:50 AM   #120
Slowvehicle
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Before we arouse the ire of the moderators, can I just remind everyone that the thread to discuss Mormonism is here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=267950

The subject of this thread is BB''s assertion that TOBS can alleviate pain. Perhaps he could go into a little more detail as to how this might work, and how he proposes to demonstrate that it does. Is he claiming psychological benefit only (I.e. that it could be used as a placebo) or an actual objective reduction in pain? How would a sufferer go about obtaining the relief? And so on.
I am pursuing Mr. Baxter's proof of the mere existence of his 'god' as a starting point to evaluate that 'god's' piusaance anent TOBS. Mr. Baxter is the one attempting a derail by raising the issue of the factuality of the BOM...
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