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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:11 PM   #281
abaddon
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
straw man--the law of Justice requires that all sin be punished.
You made that up out of whole cloth.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Thanks to Jesus' Atonement,
What atonement?

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
forgiveness is possible.
Forgiveness for what?

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
God himself cannot change the Law of Justice.

bb
Your god is not omnipotent. That is your claim, right?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:12 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
straw man--the law of Justice requires that all sin be punished. Thanks to Jesus' Atonement, forgiveness is possible. God himself cannot change the Law of Justice.

bb
I forget; how long is a 3rd suspension?

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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:12 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Understanding TOBS requires some background knowledge. You'll see where all this is going shortly. I'll post one TOBS lesson each day.

bb
After 7 pages of drivel you'll possibly get down to what you seem to think are brass tacks (more likely kitchen foil)? Which most of us will view as highly problematic. No longer even mildly amusing.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:20 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
You made that up out of whole cloth.

What atonement?
Jesus suffered for our sins in Gethsemane and on the cross. Please read "The Mediator" to understand this concept.

Quote:
Forgiveness for what?
For our sins.

Quote:
Your god is not omnipotent. That is your claim, right?
God must obey divine law--otherwise he would cease to be God.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:29 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Jesus suffered for our sins in Gethsemane and on the cross. Please read "The Mediator" to understand this concept.
No he didn't. Gethsemane was simply a prolonged whinge, and the crucifixion was merely an inconvenience.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
For our sins.
One of the most scurrilous and pernicious of christian beliefs.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
God must obey divine law--otherwise he would cease to be God.

bb
Your god is somehow limited by...something. What is that which limits your god? De facto, it must be something more powerful than your god. What is it?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:37 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
No he didn't. Gethsemane was simply a prolonged whinge, and the crucifixion was merely an inconvenience.

One of the most scurrilous and pernicious of christian beliefs.

Your god is somehow limited by...something. What is that which limits your god? De facto, it must be something more powerful than your god. What is it?
God is God because he obeys the fundamental laws of the universe. We don't fully understand why these laws exist or why things have to be the way they are. At least, I don't.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:41 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
God is God because he obeys the fundamental laws of the universe. We don't fully understand why these laws exist or why things have to be the way they are. At least, I don't.

bb
Nor does your deity of choice, according to you.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:45 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Wow.


Unevidenced claim.
unevidenced opinion
No, it really isn't. You attributing something to the intervention of God is a claim, and that claim came with no evidence. You may be convinced, but you have presented nothing to convince others.

So, abaddon was stating a fact: Your claim was without evidence. It was an unevidenced claim.

Please don't counter observations of fact with what come off as childish playground retorts. It cheapens your argument and undermines your credibility.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:48 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
God is God because he obeys the fundamental laws of the universe. We don't fully understand why these laws exist or why things have to be the way they are. At least, I don't.

bb
Well, whoever or whatever instituted those laws must be more powerful than your god, or exercises a power your god doesn't have.

That's who we should be worshipping, if anybody. Why aren't you worshipping that entity?

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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:53 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
God is God because he obeys the fundamental laws of the universe.
Hey, I obey the fundamental laws of the universe...
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Old 2nd April 2017, 03:11 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
God is God because he obeys the fundamental laws of the universe.........
Except when he doesn't, like being "omni-present" and invisible, and by creating the damn thing in the first place. I started on the road to atheism as an 8 year old when I asked a Sunday School teacher where god was standing when he created the universe. It doesn't sound as though you have even thought of asking basic questions like that.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 03:15 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
It's healthy and honest to realize that you sin at times. ........
Nope. I mean, if I've broken any rules, then fair enough. But I haven't, so I'm not a sinner.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 03:28 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
Well, whoever or whatever instituted those laws must be more powerful than your god, or exercises a power your god doesn't have.

That's who we should be worshipping, if anybody. Why aren't you worshipping that entity?

This signature is intended to irritate people.
I don't know enough about fundamental reality to even speculate on that topic.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 03:35 PM   #294
Billy Baxter
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Except when he doesn't, like being "omni-present" and invisible, and by creating the damn thing in the first place. I started on the road to atheism as an 8 year old when I asked a Sunday School teacher where god was standing when he created the universe. It doesn't sound as though you have even thought of asking basic questions like that.
On the contrary, Mormon doctrine states that God the Father and Jesus both have tangible bodies of flesh and bone. God the Holy Spirit has only a spirit body and his influence is omnipresent.

bb

Last edited by Billy Baxter; 2nd April 2017 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 03:50 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
On the contrary, Mormon doctrine states that God the Father and Jesus both have tangible bodies of flesh and bone. God the Holy Spirit has only a spirit body and his influence is omnipresent.

bb
Really? So where exactly was the holy spook when god played a game of celestial hide and seek in the garden of eden?. Just not in a talkative mood?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 03:51 PM   #296
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I find baxters god to be omniflacid
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:02 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
So far I have only myself to observe and apply TOBS with. But let's say I'm studying the growth of two plants from the same species in two different rooms. I notice that plant "A" responds and grows with exposure to sunlight and water.

Predicting that plant "B" will respond to sunlight and water in a similar fashion without actually testing this hypothesis is reasonable, don't you think?

bb
It doesn't matter whether or not it's reasonable. If Plant B is a fictional construct that doesn't exist and isn't actually being exposed to anything at all, then it isn't a case study of how plants respond to being exposed to light and water and it isn't an example of it either.

Something that exists only in your head is not a case study and is not an example of anything in the real world at work.

If you think that imagining up characters with fictional attributes, and then imagining how they will react to imaginary treatment they will never receive (them being fictional and all), is an example of a case study, then I don't know what to say.

You can't even see science from where you are.

Aside from your misunderstanding of what a case study is, do you know what's seriously wrong with using a single uncontrolled sample as a basis for future medical treatment of others?

Last edited by JesseCuster; 2nd April 2017 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:52 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
It doesn't matter whether or not it's reasonable. If Plant B is a fictional construct that doesn't exist and isn't actually being exposed to anything at all, then it isn't a case study of how plants respond to being exposed to light and water and it isn't an example of it either.

Something that exists only in your head is not a case study and is not an example of anything in the real world at work.

If you think that imagining up characters with fictional attributes, and then imagining how they will react to imaginary treatment they will never receive (them being fictional and all), is an example of a case study, then I don't know what to say.

You can't even see science from where you are.

Aside from your misunderstanding of what a case study is, do you know what's seriously wrong with using a single uncontrolled sample as a basis for future medical treatment of others?
I said nothing about medical treatment. Getting rid of BS pains involves repenting of our sins and obeying the commandments. That's what TOBS is all about: alleviating pain and leading us to happiness.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:04 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I said nothing about medical treatment. Getting rid of BS pains involves repenting of our sins and obeying the commandments. That's what TOBS is all about: alleviating pain and leading us to happiness.

bb
What pains? What sins? and which commandments? You are most shy about these matters. Why is that?

Right now, as I type, I feel no pain at all of any sort. Does this mean I am without sin? It is your idea, one would think you would be able to answer such a question. The floor is yours.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:44 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I said nothing about medical treatment. Getting rid of BS pains involves repenting of our sins and obeying the commandments. That's what TOBS is all about: alleviating pain and leading us to happiness.

bb
Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Are you going to admit that you used the phrase 'case study' completely wrongly? When you're called out on something, it's best just to admit it, instead of replying to posts calling you out on your error, but not actually answering the posts, instead going off on irrelevant tangents.

Sven is not a case study. He isn't evidence. He isn't an example of the TOBS working. He's literally nothing.

You can't use an imaginary person with imaginary ailments as an example of how to successfully treat medical problems. You need to show us actual people being successfully treated for actual medical problems.

So far you've provided us with a laundry list of medical complaints that you claim your TOBS can supposedly cure, and the best example you can provide us of a person being cured of said ailments is an imaginary person?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:45 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Here is a list of maladies I believe TOBS can cure or bring relief from:

<snip>
and dare I say cancer or AIDS?
You can say it. You sure as hell can't cure it.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 06:00 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Jesus suffered for our sins in Gethsemane and on the cross. Please read "The Mediator" to understand this concept.



For our sins.



God must obey divine law--otherwise he would cease to be God.

bb
No. If Jesus existed at all, he died because he was too crazy or too stupid to un**** himself when the Romans decided to turn him into performance art.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 07:22 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Yes, I'm advancing the argument that the body signals are a built-in way that God uses as a schoolteacher to lead us to Christ and his gospel. Relief from the pain of the BS's comes as we conform to live his commandments.

bb

OK, so contrary to the thread title TOBS does not relieve pain, got it. Thanks.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 07:41 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Here is a list of maladies I believe TOBS can cure or bring relief from:

Acne
Joint pain (hips, knees, elbows, wrists, fingers, etc.)
Arthritis
The common cold (coughing, throat clearing, runny nose, sneezing, etc.)
Sinus pain
Headache, fever
Burning sensation when urinating
Shortness of breath
Trouble swallowing
Chest pain/heart problems
Body moles
Mouth canker sores
Phantom limb pain
Stitches in sides of ribs
Fibromyalgia
Cramps/charly-horses
Excessive vomiting
Indigestion/diarrhea/constipation
Irritable bowel syndrome
Restless leg syndrome
Body itches/exzema
Insect/spider bites
Excessive body odor even right after a thorough soapy shower
Genital itch/excessive gas pains/farting/hemorrhoids
Irritable eyes
Excessive earwax/ringing and rushing in ears/tinnitis
Pain in back of neck
and dare I say cancer or AIDS?

bb
So your deity is running around causing all of these maladies on purpose?

What about the one's not on your list? What causes those?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 07:55 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
unevidenced opinion
Yes. Every post of yours has been an opinion void of supporting evidence.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Wisdom dictates that he waits until our repentance is full. Also, he cannot save us IN our sins, only FROM our sins.
According to whom?

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
straw man
Please learn to apply this logical fallacy correctly.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Nothing--God is no respecter of persons. And he didn't vanish. Relief from BS pain is called "righteousness."

bb

Oh really? My knee and arm still hurt. I guess I'm being punished. Have you run out of excuses for your sky daddy not healing me with his BS BS?
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Old 3rd April 2017, 12:49 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Understanding TOBS requires some background knowledge. You'll see where all this is going shortly. I'll post one TOBS lesson each day.

bb
No, not if you stick to your modus. You will, at best, be posting one set of unevidenced assertions about your TOBS scheme...without bothering to support them in any way other then your own demonstrably disingenuous "sincerity". To present a "lesson about TOBS, you would need to support your claim that your 'god' exists at all, much less sends BS "messages". Start there.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 12:51 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
straw man--the law of Justice requires that all sin be punished. Thanks to Jesus' Atonement, forgiveness is possible. God himself cannot change the Law of Justice.

bb
If 'god' is powerless, why call it 'god'?

(...and you still have no idea what a person-of-straw argument is...)
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Old 3rd April 2017, 01:02 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I said nothing about medical treatment. Getting rid of BS pains involves repenting of our sins and obeying the commandments. That's what TOBS is all about: alleviating pain and leading us to happiness.

bb

There are millions of Christians (including Mormons) who repent their sins and obey the commandments, yet still live with chronic pain. So there is already plenty of evidence against your hypothesis.

And once again: either TOBS works or it doesn't, and the way to find out is to test it objectively. Quoting the childish blatherings of members of your church adds nothing to your case for it.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 07:20 AM   #309
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Wait, is BB claiming that people suffering from cancer deserve their pain? They somehow brought it on themselves?

Wow...
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Old 3rd April 2017, 12:22 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
Wait, is BB claiming that people suffering from cancer deserve their pain? They somehow brought it on themselves?

Wow...
i'm not saying that at all.

you people don't deserve to know the truth. i leave you to your willful ignorance.

bb
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Old 3rd April 2017, 12:42 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
i'm not saying that at all.

you people don't deserve to know the truth. i leave you to your willful ignorance.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

On the contrary, most of us do not need to hide from reality by clinging to superstition.

I wish you well, and hope trhat you contribute to the "LDS" thread.

I remain, disequestrianly yours &ct.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 12:48 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
i'm not saying that at all.

you people don't deserve to know the truth. i leave you to your willful ignorance.

bb
A half hearted flounce?
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Old 3rd April 2017, 12:58 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
So how does TOBS get Sven out of pain and back on track? There are no easy answers for him--Jesus said that he who offends a little one would be better off with a millstone tied around his neck and dropped into the sea. So Sven must repent of his abuse and endure the consequences of his actions. As he repents over time, the BS's will guide him and get his life turned around. Understanding how God's Justice, Mercy and grace work is fundamental to getting relief from chronic pain and ultimately forgiveness of our sins.

This looks a lot like blaming cancer victims for their own suffering.

Ew.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 01:48 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
i'm not saying that at all.

you people don't deserve to know the truth. i leave you to your willful ignorance.

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Old 3rd April 2017, 01:56 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
A half hearted flounce?
I have to say it's a bit rich for a Mormon to accuse sceptics of wilful ignorance. But then it would be a bit rich for a Mormon to accuse flat earthers of wilful ignorance.

Come to think of it, wasn't he supposed to be researching the history of horses in America for the LDS thread? Maybe in the course of doing so he finally started to realise the extent of his own wilful ignorance, and is flouncing because he's afraid of what else he might discover.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 03:08 PM   #316
Billy Baxter
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
This looks a lot like blaming cancer victims for their own suffering.

Ew.
I most certainly am not blaming cancer victims for their own suffering. I shouldn't have included cancer or AIDS on my list.

bb

ETA: there is TOBS pain and there is non-TOBS pain. There's a big difference.

Last edited by Billy Baxter; 3rd April 2017 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 3rd April 2017, 03:21 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
ETA: there is TOBS pain and there is non-TOBS pain. There's a big difference.

How can you tell which one is which?
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Old 3rd April 2017, 03:24 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I most certainly am not blaming cancer victims for their own suffering. I shouldn't have included cancer or AIDS on my list.

bb

ETA: there is TOBS pain and there is non-TOBS pain. There's a big difference.
Well! That didn't take long at all!

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Old 3rd April 2017, 03:27 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I most certainly am not blaming cancer victims for their own suffering. I shouldn't have included cancer or AIDS on my list.

bb

ETA: there is TOBS pain and there is non-TOBS pain. There's a big difference.
How can you tell if you don't do any experiments?
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Old 3rd April 2017, 03:34 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I most certainly am not blaming cancer victims for their own suffering. I shouldn't have included cancer or AIDS on my list.
Why did you include them on your list in the first place?

Either you have sound reasons to think that people with AIDS or cancer can get relief or cure from their suffering using TOBS, in which case Hokulele's comment shouldn't make any difference, or you included them on your list without having a good reason to think that TOBS will work for them.

It's almost like you're making this stuff up as you go along.
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