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Tags Brexit , Theresa May , uk elections , uk politics

View Poll Results: How long will UK Prime Minister Theresa May Last?
She'll last a month at most 8 17.78%
She won't last out the week 3 6.67%
She'll last for two weeks 2 4.44%
She'll last until the next Tory Conference in October 2017 20 44.44%
She'll last until the next General Election 8 17.78%
She'll ride out the storm and serve the full term 2 4.44%
Who cares <shrug>? 2 4.44%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 26th June 2017, 06:30 AM   #161
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Praise be to the Lord!
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Old 26th June 2017, 06:31 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by toto View Post
I think my sentence was equally correct, reflecting a bit of what yours didn't, that it is a personal highlight of The Queen's year, which she wouldn't want to miss; albeit rather colloquially expressed.
As the saying goes wild horses wouldn't have been able to keep away.
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Old 26th June 2017, 07:04 AM   #163
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Hmm. Not quite sure how this doesn't simply equate to 'bribe'.
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Old 26th June 2017, 07:14 AM   #164
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Because reasons.

And since Scotland and Wales won't be recieving addtional funds, it's going to be fun watching the Scottish and Welsh conservative leaders explain why that is so.
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Old 26th June 2017, 07:27 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
And since Scotland and Wales won't be recieving addtional funds, it's going to be fun watching the Scottish and Welsh conservative leaders explain why that is so.
Especially the Scottish, since they've just effectively ressurected their Conservative Party, and may now be starting to wonder why they bothered.

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Old 26th June 2017, 08:18 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by KDLarsen View Post
Because reasons.

And since Scotland and Wales won't be recieving addtional funds, it's going to be fun watching the Scottish and Welsh conservative leaders explain why that is so.
It'll be more complicated than that.

Allocations use the Barnett formula which at the moment favours Scotland and disbenefits Wales (by c1%), with NE England doing worst in funding compared with relative poverty.

Any complaints from Scotland will be met with "yes, we'll revise the funding formula".
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Old 26th June 2017, 08:28 AM   #167
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Labour MP's are having a field day, enquiring if the Tories might have found that magic money tree they kept talking about during the campaign.
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Old 26th June 2017, 09:27 AM   #168
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I see that Archie Gemmil Goal beat me to the ABC news "Theresa May and the Holy Grail" link.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-2...-grail/8649836



Well worth a watch

Meanwhile,
Daily Mash's take on this
DUP gets £1bn for murals of fat Protestant men in bowler hats
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Old 26th June 2017, 09:43 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
It'll be more complicated than that.

Allocations use the Barnett formula which at the moment favours Scotland and disbenefits Wales (by c1%), with NE England doing worst in funding compared with relative poverty.

Any complaints from Scotland will be met with "yes, we'll revise the funding formula".
Since they have deliberately done the deal to avoid Barnett I doubt they will. Funnily enough they've done exactly what Mundell said they wouldn't do. Back-door funding for N. Ireland to buy the DUP vote without any equivalent funding for the other nations.

The Conservative and Unionist Party couldn't be doing more to destroy the Union they apparently hold so dear.
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Old 26th June 2017, 01:56 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
It'll be more complicated than that.

Allocations use the Barnett formula which at the moment favours Scotland and disbenefits Wales (by c1%), with NE England doing worst in funding compared with relative poverty.

Any complaints from Scotland will be met with "yes, we'll revise the funding formula".
I assume the was because you realize what a stupid idea that would be. may has a working majority of 3, there are 13 Scottish Conservative MPs, even May isn't idiot enough to antagonize them. She's made a rod for her own back with this deal, a handful of Tory backbenchers with a pet agenda can hold her to ransom, and this deal proves she can be blackmailed.
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Old 26th June 2017, 02:15 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Hmm. Not quite sure how this doesn't simply equate to 'bribe'.
Most of the time "Pork" is pretty much bribery...although this is really a blatent case.
I am betting there is going to quite a bit of pushback within the Tory party over this one.......

I thought US politicians were really good at dishing out the Pork, but his makes most of them look like amateurs.
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Old 26th June 2017, 02:36 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
I assume the was because you realize what a stupid idea that would be. may has a working majority of 3, there are 13 Scottish Conservative MPs, even May isn't idiot enough to antagonize them. She's made a rod for her own back with this deal, a handful of Tory backbenchers with a pet agenda can hold her to ransom, and this deal proves she can be blackmailed.
Strong and Stable, I tell you

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Old 26th June 2017, 03:20 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Most of the time "Pork" is pretty much bribery...although this is really a blatent case.
I am betting there is going to quite a bit of pushback within the Tory party over this one.......

I thought US politicians were really good at dishing out the Pork, but his makes most of them look like amateurs.
I honestly thought this was pretty amateurish, I would have expected something a little more subtle, a quiet promise that requests for special funding will receive a 'sympathetic' hearing.
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Old 26th June 2017, 11:13 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
I assume the was because you realize what a stupid idea that would be. may has a working majority of 3, there are 13 Scottish Conservative MPs, even May isn't idiot enough to antagonize them. She's made a rod for her own back with this deal, a handful of Tory backbenchers with a pet agenda can hold her to ransom, and this deal proves she can be blackmailed.
Seven.

There are 7 Sin Feinn MPs, and the speaker, to remove from the total number of MPs. 650-8 = 642. Therefore 321 is the magic number, and the government has 328 votes to (theoretically) count on (at least for Supply, Confidence, and Brexit votes). Your point stands, though, despite the maths error.
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Old 27th June 2017, 02:45 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
The Conservative and Unionist Party couldn't be doing more to destroy the Union they apparently hold so dear.
What I want to know is how they're going to get the Hard Brexit with Soft Border that their DUP allies are clamouring for.
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Old 27th June 2017, 03:18 PM   #176
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If this keeps up, maybe Theresa May will be the one with the slogan "Ourselves Alone"........
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Old 27th June 2017, 03:19 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
What I want to know is how they're going to get the Hard Brexit with Soft Border that their DUP allies are clamouring for.
That's easy.

A united Ireland whilst the rest of the UK has a hard Brexit.

Probably not what the DUP wants.
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Old 27th June 2017, 03:50 PM   #178
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Weirdest narrative I'm seeing now is that the Conservatives admit they ran a terrible campaign and since Labour didn't win despite that this proves the Conservatives are winners and Corbyn is a loser. This seems to be coming mainly from the same people who predicted Labour's annihilation in the election.
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Old 27th June 2017, 03:55 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Weirdest narrative I'm seeing now is that the Conservatives admit they ran a terrible campaign and since Labour didn't win despite that this proves the Conservatives are winners and Corbyn is a loser. This seems to be coming mainly from the same people who predicted Labour's annihilation in the election.
It's getting embarrassing.
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Old 27th June 2017, 04:33 PM   #180
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As I posted on both twitter and fb: "London house prices are booming - Theresa May just paid £1.5bn to rent a house in Downing St for a few weeks."

In the meantime we have no effective government and an opposition that thinks it's in charge but has no mandate. Basically, the country is up **** creek without a paddle.
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Old 28th June 2017, 03:01 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
I assume the was because you realize what a stupid idea that would be. may has a working majority of 3, there are 13 Scottish Conservative MPs, even May isn't idiot enough to antagonize them. She's made a rod for her own back with this deal, a handful of Tory backbenchers with a pet agenda can hold her to ransom, and this deal proves she can be blackmailed.
That assumes the Scottish Conservatives represent the people of Scotland to the Conservative Party and not vice versa. At the moment that remains an unproven assumption at best.

So far Davidson and Mundell are proving to be compliant little puppets.
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Old 28th June 2017, 06:46 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Agatha View Post
.....In the meantime we have no effective government and an opposition that thinks it's in charge but has no mandate. Basically, the country is up **** creek without a paddle.
We're Brits. We'll muddle through somehow,
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Old 28th June 2017, 12:27 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
That's easy.

A united Ireland whilst the rest of the UK has a hard Brexit.

Probably not what the DUP wants.
And it is not what the Republic wants;either.
Don't kid yourself,the Republic does not want the headache that is Ulster. Oh, there is a lot of sentinmental rhetoric about the 32 county Republic and singing of "Four Green Fields",but in reality, they don't want the problem handed to them.
It could be described (with Apoligies to St Augustine) "Give Me A United Ireland...But Not Yet").
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Old 28th June 2017, 12:42 PM   #184
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Dear FSM ....

Senior Tory sources told us earlier that the long-running 1% cap on public sector pay rises was about to be reconsidered. Then a #10 spokesperson says it isn't.

What a ***************. Ongoing. Watch that space for the next improvisation.

Hours after a senior Conservative source indicated that ministers would review the cap at the next budget, saying people were “weary” after years of belt-tightening, Theresa May’s spokesman said this was not the case.
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Old 28th June 2017, 01:46 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And it is not what the Republic wants;either.
Don't kid yourself,the Republic does not want the headache that is Ulster. Oh, there is a lot of sentinmental rhetoric about the 32 county Republic and singing of "Four Green Fields",but in reality, they don't want the problem handed to them.
It could be described (with Apoligies to St Augustine) "Give Me A United Ireland...But Not Yet").
Oh I agree with that. NOBODY (except Theresa May) wants the Orangemen.


Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Dear FSM ....

Senior Tory sources told us earlier that the long-running 1% cap on public sector pay rises was about to be reconsidered. Then a #10 spokesperson says it isn't.

What a ***************. Ongoing. Watch that space for the next improvisation.

Hours after a senior Conservative source indicated that ministers would review the cap at the next budget, saying people were “weary” after years of belt-tightening, Theresa May’s spokesman said this was not the case.
Theresa May is damaging the Tory brand. They used to have a reputation for being a bit heartless (or "tough-minded") but that they would be competent and so their hard choices (which happened to favour rich people) were good for the whole economy, and thus the NHS etc.

May is turning this into choices that are not good for the well-off (except the ultra rich) who prosper from a thriving economy and are heartless, and with naked bribes to hold on to power.
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Old 28th June 2017, 02:57 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
We're Brits. We'll muddle through somehow,
As do all folk, what is important is what is at the end of the muddle.
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Old 28th June 2017, 03:16 PM   #187
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Meanwhile Irleand elects the son of an Indian Emigrant as Taiosach....
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Old 28th June 2017, 04:45 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Meanwhile Irleand elects the son of an Indian Emigrant as Taiosach....
Well, his party did.
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Old 28th June 2017, 08:31 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Weirdest narrative I'm seeing now is that the Conservatives admit they ran a terrible campaign and since Labour didn't win despite that this proves the Conservatives are winners and Corbyn is a loser. This seems to be coming mainly from the same people who predicted Labour's annihilation in the election.
Doesn't stop it having quite a bit of truth, remind me again which one is in No10, and managed to force through the Queen's speech?
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Old 29th June 2017, 04:30 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
We're Brits. We'll muddle through somehow,
Bit like that bloke hit by a bus?
"Must...get...to....pub..."
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Old 29th June 2017, 08:01 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by Mikemcc View Post
Doesn't stop it having quite a bit of truth, remind me again which one is in No10, and managed to force through the Queen's speech?
You mean the Queen's Speech that's yet to be debated? You realize just having the Queen read it doesn't mean it's passed right? Which one had a working majority, a 20 point lead in the polls and p*****d it away. As for that majority today demonstrated that its a pitiful fig leaf:

Northern Ireland women to get abortion funding

Quote:
The concession came ahead of a vote on the issue in the House of Commons.
An amendment on the issue which had cross-party backing, had been selected for inclusion in the Queen's Speech debate - which meant Theresa May's government ran the risk of possible defeat.
And there's more in the article about that Queen's Speech they 'forced through':
Quote:
Following the concession from the government the amendment to the Queen's Speech may well be withdrawn.
That would leave amendments to be debated and voted on covering a call for several of Labour's manifesto pledges to be adopted, plus one to ensure that Brexit delivers the "exact same benefits" of the current EU single market and customs union membership.
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Old 29th June 2017, 08:25 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
You mean the Queen's Speech that's yet to be debated? You realize just having the Queen read it doesn't mean it's passed right? Which one had a working majority, a 20 point lead in the polls and p*****d it away. As for that majority today demonstrated that its a pitiful fig leaf:

Northern Ireland women to get abortion funding



And there's more in the article about that Queen's Speech they 'forced through':
Hmmm...can I just clarify this?

Labour tried to get an amendment on public sector pay caps which were defeated, whereas the amendment to have abortion for NI women was voted in favour.

Okay, but surely the cross-party group supporting this amendment didn't include this merely to make the DUP vote against it, did they?

I mean, it would look pretty nasty if all the MPs of all the parties other than the Tories voted against a bill that included an amendment to allow NI women get free abortions in England, would it not?

Am I misunderstanding something?
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Old 2nd July 2017, 07:26 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Hmmm...can I just clarify this?

Labour tried to get an amendment on public sector pay caps which were defeated, whereas the amendment to have abortion for NI women was voted in favour.
Yeah the amendment was defeated because the Tories want to stand strong on public sector pay, or not:

Listen to review bodies on public sector pay, says Gove

Quote:
Okay, but surely the cross-party group supporting this amendment didn't include this merely to make the DUP vote against it, did they?
No they did this because they knew the government wouldn't dare risk such a vote and would have to capitulate.

Quote:
I mean, it would look pretty nasty if all the MPs of all the parties other than the Tories voted against a bill that included an amendment to allow NI women get free abortions in England, would it not?
They would be voting against the Queen's speech as whole, which given their opposition to a number of the other proposals already in it was practically inevitable unless a huge number of amendments got through. Tabling the amendment was a way of cornering May and forcing her to capitulate, in which it succeeded brilliantly. The Queen's Speech isn't just a bill, it's being voted down would be the equivalent of 'no confidence' vote and would most likely trigger an election.

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Am I misunderstanding something?
Yes, including that whole 'forced through' claim you made originally made and dodged in your reply.

As can be seen from the Sunday papers in the UK May is being urged to end austerity and essentially steal any number of those Labour policies they insisted would bankrupt the country back when they expected a three figure majority.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 07:55 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Hmmm...can I just clarify this?

Labour tried to get an amendment on public sector pay caps which were defeated, whereas the amendment to have abortion for NI women was voted in favour.
It was conceded and didn't go to the vote, which was the point of the move. An opposition amendment - requiring some Tory support, i.e. rebellion - being passed would have been a catastrophe.

The pay cap amendment got full Tory and DUP support and was therefore passed.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 11:48 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
It was conceded and didn't go to the vote, which was the point of the move. An opposition amendment - requiring some Tory support, i.e. rebellion - being passed would have been a catastrophe.

The pay cap amendment got full Tory and DUP support and was therefore passed.
Just to clarify - full support to reject the proposed amendment.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 12:30 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Just to clarify - full support to reject the proposed amendment.
And having done that we have, in a move that is obviously totally, completely different from what Labour had in mind, senior Tories proposing an 'easing' of the pay cap, oh and more funding for schools and a 'discussion' about tuition fees...
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Old 2nd July 2017, 01:28 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
And having done that we have, in a move that is obviously totally, completely different from what Labour had in mind, senior Tories proposing an 'easing' of the pay cap, oh and more funding for schools and a 'discussion' about tuition fees...
Yep. Suddenly they understand, as if from nowhere, that previous policies need urgent review.

Totally unconnected with a dramatic recent drop in popularity. Totally.

Even if the next election goes with the Cons, it could be that Maggie moment all over again - where her greatest triumph was New Labour

But I suppose we soon have the summer recess of Parliament for them to recover from all this nonsense.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 01:56 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Yep. Suddenly they understand, as if from nowhere, that previous policies need urgent review.

Totally unconnected with a dramatic recent drop in popularity. Totally.

Even if the next election goes with the Cons, it could be that Maggie moment all over again - where her greatest triumph was New Labour

But I suppose we soon have the summer recess of Parliament for them to recover from all this nonsense.
Thing is that 'New Labour' was the result of a clear strategy carried out by a strong leader bending the party to their will and remaking it. May is being driven by weakness, she doesn't want to make the concessions being foisted on her. It's a chaotic attempt to find anything that will prop up their poll ratings and postpone the next election.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 03:38 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Hmm. Not quite sure how this doesn't simply equate to 'bribe'.
Isn't a bribe defined as giving somebody money in return for them doing something that is against the normal rules or laws?

If I pay a cop to let me off a speeding ticket, it's a bribe because he shouldn't be doing that. But if I pay a labourer to dig my flowerbeds over, it's not a bribe - I'm just hiring him.

Since the DUP have every right to vote with the conservatives, I'm not seeing how this can be considered as a bribe. It's just political horse-trading. That's not only within the rules of the system, it's a fundamental part of how the system works.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 03:46 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
Isn't a bribe defined as giving somebody money in return for them doing something that is against the normal rules or laws?

If I pay a cop to let me off a speeding ticket, it's a bribe because he shouldn't be doing that. But if I pay a labourer to dig my flowerbeds over, it's not a bribe - I'm just hiring him.

Since the DUP have every right to vote with the conservatives, I'm not seeing how this can be considered as a bribe. It's just political horse-trading. That's not only within the rules of the system, it's a fundamental part of how the system works.
No. If I tell my son that if he eats his dinner he can have ice cream then it is still a bribe, even if it is not against the rules.

The DUP are not offering their skills for a certain fee. They are trading political capital for public money. I would say that paying them the money is an unprincipled bribe.
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