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Tags North Korea incidents , Otto Warmbier , US-North Korea relations

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Old 19th June 2017, 03:22 PM   #1
Vixen
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US Citizen Otto Warmbier, returned from North Korea, has died

The sad news on the US student, Otto Warmbier, returned home to his family, is that he has died. He was jailed in North Korea for a prank and sent back to the USA in a coma, after 15 months of his sentence, with brain trauma.

Quote:
Otto Warmbier, 22, returned to the US last Tuesday, but it emerged he had been in a coma for a year.
North Korea said botulism led to the coma, but a team of US doctors who assessed him dispute this account.
Mr Warmbier was sentenced to 15 years of hard labour for attempting to steal a propaganda sign from a hotel.
He had suffered severe brain damage, and was medically evacuated from North Korea on 13 June to a hospital in his home city of Cincinnati. Ohio. It is unclear how he fell ill.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40335169

What sanctions can be taken, if any?
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Last edited by Vixen; 19th June 2017 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 19th June 2017, 03:38 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The sad news on the US student, Otto Warmbier, returned home to his family, is that he has died. He was jailed in North Korea for a prank and send back to the USA in a coma, after 18 months of his sentence, with brain trauma.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40335169

What sanctions can be taken, if any?
How about

1 Don't visit North Korea

2 If you do, don't be a dick, as the punishment for being a dick is having your life destroyed.

2a Just because you're not being a dick, it does not mean the government will not make an example of you, as you are an evil depraved westerner.

2b by visiting North Korea as a tourist you are providing direct monetary support for an oppressive evil regime, so visiting North Korea may automatically make you a dick.

3 Goto 1

Last edited by Hungry81; 19th June 2017 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 19th June 2017, 03:59 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
How about

1 Don't visit North Korea

2 If you do, don't be a dick, as the punishment for being a dick is having your life destroyed.

2a Just because you're not being a dick, it does not mean the government will not make an example of you, as you are an evil depraved westerner.

2b by visiting North Korea as a tourist you are providing direct monetary support for an oppressive evil regime, so visiting North Korea may automatically make you a dick.

3 Goto 1
This sounds oddly similar to the lecture I'm always giving to young women, about not dressing slutty or accepting drinks from strangers at parties. It's a great lecture for right after they trot out some sob story about being date raped.
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
How about

1 Don't visit North Korea

2 If you do, don't be a dick, as the punishment for being a dick is having your life destroyed.

2a Just because you're not being a dick, it does not mean the government will not make an example of you, as you are an evil depraved westerner.

2b by visiting North Korea as a tourist you are providing direct monetary support for an oppressive evil regime, so visiting North Korea may automatically make you a dick.

3 Goto 1

That's a bit harsh, old chum.
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:28 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
He was jailed in North Korea for a prank
It wasn't a prank, it was theft. And not just any theft. No doubt he stole the banner so he could use it to ridicule North Korea. A thief and a dick.

Originally Posted by theprestige
This sounds oddly similar to the lecture I'm always giving to young women, about not dressing slutty or accepting drinks from strangers at parties.
Or like the lecture I give to kids not to climb over the fence and pet the lions at the zoo.

North Korea is a foreign country with different laws to ours. Some of those laws may seem pretty harsh to us, but only an idiot would deliberately disobey them. And it's not like he didn't know that theft is a crime.
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:46 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
2 If you do, don't be a dick, as the punishment for being a dick is having your life destroyed.
Literally.

Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
2b by visiting North Korea as a tourist you are providing direct monetary support for an oppressive evil regime, so visiting North Korea may automatically make you a dick.
Dennis Rodman?
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:48 PM   #7
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The kid was dumb,but in the end the North Korean Regime was the guilty party, and that people are trying to let Dear Leader off the hook for this is a little disturbing.

Last edited by dudalb; 19th June 2017 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
It wasn't a prank, it was theft. And not just any theft. No doubt he stole the banner so he could use it to ridicule North Korea. A thief and a dick.

Or like the lecture I give to kids not to climb over the fence and pet the lions at the zoo.

North Korea is a foreign country with different laws to ours. Some of those laws may seem pretty harsh to us, but only an idiot would deliberately disobey them. And it's not like he didn't know that theft is a crime.
Everybody is allowed to make a mistake. So he did something stupid.

A callow youth aged 22 takes a souvenir of a North Korea banner and is caught.

You don't think 15 years hard labour and being reduced to a brain-damage coma, caused by respiratory trauma, within a month of the sentence before being sent home near death's door 15 months later, is cruel and unusual punishment?
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
It wasn't a prank, it was theft. And not just any theft. No doubt he stole the banner so he could use it to ridicule North Korea. A thief and a dick.

Or like the lecture I give to kids not to climb over the fence and pet the lions at the zoo.

North Korea is a foreign country with different laws to ours. Some of those laws may seem pretty harsh to us, but only an idiot would deliberately disobey them. And it's not like he didn't know that theft is a crime.
So, you're buying the story NK gave out?
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The sad news on the US student, Otto Warmbier, returned home to his family, is that he has died. He was jailed in North Korea for a prank and sent back to the USA in a coma, after 15 months of his sentence, with brain trauma.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40335169

What sanctions can be taken, if any?
We already have just about every sanction on North Korea you can have because of their past bad behavior. And it does nothing to change their behavior.

Last edited by dudalb; 19th June 2017 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:57 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
So, you're buying the story NK gave out?
I wonder if some people are not so afraid of war breaking out with North Korea that they are adapting a "We must not do anything to offend them" attitude.

Screw that. the North Korean Regime is a cruel,corrupt, barbaric regime and Dear Leader is somebody the world would be better off without.
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
We already have just about every sanction on North Korea you can have. And it does nothing to change their behavior.
Which ones are we missing?
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Old 19th June 2017, 04:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I wonder if some people are not so afraid of war breaking out with North Korea that they are adapting a "We must not do anything to offend them" attitude.

Screw that. the North Korean Regime is a cruel,corrupt, barbaric regime and Dear Leader is somebody the world would be better off without.
I mean the whole "that kid tried to steal a banner" story. I doubt that, or anything even like it, ever happened at all. NK wanted to grab an American, so they did. And they made up a story they imagined, in their jaundiced and literally insane view of the world, would sound likely. Signs? Churches? Suuuuuure.
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:00 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I mean the whole "that kid tried to steal a banner" story. I doubt that, or anything even like it, ever happened at all. NK wanted to grab an American, so they did. And they made up a story they imagined, in their jaundiced and literally insane view of the world, would sound likely. Signs? Churches? Suuuuuure.
I seem to recall coming across a video showing him trying to pull something off the wall, so there may be something to it.
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:01 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Dumb All Over View Post
Which ones are we missing?
I don't know, I just put that in if there is some small sanction we have overlooked. North Korea is pretty much treated, quite rightely, as a pariah nation by the US.has been for some time,but the North Koreans don't seem to care.
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:02 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
...that people are trying to let Dear Leader off the hook for this is a little disturbing.
But not at all surprising.
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:03 PM   #17
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So the sanctimonious among us have:

- never taken a souvenir from a hotel (soap, shampoo, towel, even)

- refrained from nicking a road sign with 'Abbey Road' or 'Penny Lane', if given the opportunity

- never taken a whole handful (or entire bowlful) of mint sweets at the end of an Indian meal as soon as the waiters take their eyes off you

- never not left a 'suggested donation of £5' when visiting a museum or art gallery?
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:08 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
So the sanctimonious among us have:

- never taken a souvenir from a hotel (soap, shampoo, towel, even)

- refrained from nicking a road sign with 'Abbey Road' or 'Penny Lane', if given the opportunity

- never taken a whole handful (or entire bowlful) of mint sweets at the end of an Indian meal as soon as the waiters take their eyes off you

- never not left a 'suggested donation of £5' when visiting a museum or art gallery?
Not in North Korea I haven't.
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:21 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I seem to recall coming across a video showing him trying to pull something off the wall, so there may be something to it.
I don't recall that. Can anybody track it down?
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:29 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
North Korea is a foreign country with different laws to ours. Some of those laws may seem pretty harsh to us,
They don't seem harsh to me. They seem evil.
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
They don't seem harsh to me. They seem evil.
They ARE Evil, if the word Evil has any meaning.

I find it disgusting that people are acting as apologists for a regime as barbaric,evil and insane as North Korea's is.
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:41 PM   #22
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Warmer's roommate speaks out

"Gratton said that in the four days they spent together, Warmbier never said anything about a banner and that he saw zero evidence that Warmbier was planning any such act — quite the opposite. The first Gratton heard of the alleged attempted theft was when it was mentioned in news reports weeks later. Gratton and Warmbier weren’t together 24 hours each day, but they traveled together during the day and hung out each night.

"'I’ve got nothing from my experiences with him that would suggest he would do something like that,' he said. 'At no stage did I ever think he was anything but a very, very polite kid.'" link

Link to blurry video of the alleged thievery. At this point I would say that there is no persuasive evidence that Mr. Warmbier actually stole anything.
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
They ARE Evil, if the word Evil has any meaning.

I find it disgusting that people are acting as apologists for a regime as barbaric,evil and insane as North Korea's is.
I hate agreeing with Trump about anything, but I find no fault with his statements on this so far:

Quote:
“The United States once again condemns the brutality of the North Korean regime as we mourn its latest victim”, he said.
Quote:
“Melania and I offer our deepest condolences to the family of Otto Warmbier on his untimely passing,” Mr Trump said in a statement. “There is nothing more tragic for a parent than to lose a child in the prime of life. Our thoughts and prayers are with Otto’s family and friends, and all who loved him.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7798281.html
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:54 PM   #24
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Edited by kmortis:  Removed previously moderated content and response to same


It was the Obama administration which tried to make the Warmbier family shut up about his imprisonment, and the Trump admin which pushed to get him released. And there were some lefty outlets who basically said he got what he deserved:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/la-sha...b_9531122.html
"Yeah, I’m willing to bet my last dollar that he was aware of the political climate in that country, but privilege is a hell of a drug. The high of privilege told him that North Korea’s history of making examples out of American citizens who dare challenge their rigid legal system in any way was no match for his alabaster American privilege.
...
I’m a black woman though. The hopeless fear Warmbier is now experiencing is my daily reality living in a country where white men like him are willfully oblivious to my suffering even as they are complicit in maintaining the power structures which ensure their supremacy at my expense."

http://www.salon.com/2016/03/02/this...ium=socialflow
“North Korea isn’t a playground for college pranks, Kim Jong-un isn’t a fictional character from a Seth Rogen movie, and Pyongyang isn’t some game you play with Coors Light and Solo cups,” Wilmore continued. “It’s just tough for me to have much sympathy for this guy and his crocodile tears.”
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Last edited by kmortis; 20th June 2017 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 19th June 2017, 05:55 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
I hate agreeing with Trump about anything, but I find no fault with his statements on this so far:
If it makes you feel better, don't think of it as you agreeing with Trump, think about it as Trump agreeing with you.
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Old 19th June 2017, 07:18 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
How about

1 Don't visit North Korea

2 If you do, don't be a dick, as the punishment for being a dick is having your life destroyed.

2a Just because you're not being a dick, it does not mean the government will not make an example of you, as you are an evil depraved westerner.

2b by visiting North Korea as a tourist you are providing direct monetary support for an oppressive evil regime, so visiting North Korea may automatically make you a dick.

3 Goto 1
Fly over, drop an HBomb or better on the ********!!!!!
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Old 19th June 2017, 07:26 PM   #27
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North Korea just murdered an American citizen. President Trump should not -- and will not -- let this stand. We must go to war ASAP.
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Old 19th June 2017, 07:33 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Fly over, drop an HBomb or better on the ********!!!!!
YES!!! Give them a 100-megaton lesson on truth, justice and the American way!!!
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Old 19th June 2017, 07:41 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I mean the whole "that kid tried to steal a banner" story. I doubt that, or anything even like it, ever happened at all. NK wanted to grab an American, so they did. And they made up a story they imagined, in their jaundiced and literally insane view of the world, would sound likely. Signs? Churches? Suuuuuure.
The video looks convincing.

Not saying that justifies what happened. Poor kid was a pawn and I'm glad the parents are trying to get the word out that the tour companies lie about the safety of the trips.

Dying this soon after returning, I'm guessing the parents pulled the food/fluid plug and I don't blame them. He wouldn't have lived much longer even if they didn't.
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Old 19th June 2017, 07:43 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
North Korea just murdered an American citizen. President Trump should not -- and will not -- let this stand. We must go to war ASAP.
When Britain was world Hegemon it did things like that too. BBC on the burning of the Summer Palace in Beijing, 1860.
In response, Lord Elgin ordered the British troops to burn down the entire Summer Palace complex.
The destruction, he wrote later, was intended "to mark, by a solemn act of retribution, the horror and indignation... with which we were inspired by the perpetration of a great crime".
He was worried about his reputation back in Britain, too. "What would the Times (newspaper) say of me," he reportedly told a French commander, "if I did not avenge its correspondent?"
Burning all the magnificent buildings took several days.
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Old 19th June 2017, 07:43 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
North Korea just murdered an American citizen. President Trump should not -- and will not -- let this stand. We must go to war ASAP.
Be careful what you wish for. The Middle East is about to blow up and we have an idiot driving the bus.
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Old 19th June 2017, 08:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The video looks convincing.
Do you have a link?
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Old 19th June 2017, 08:13 PM   #33
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Maybe my eyesight is worse than I thought

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Do you have a link?
See comment #23. I see a person...
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Old 19th June 2017, 08:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Do you have a link?
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/securit...e-647686723993

https://youtu.be/N8qZRyIWTf4
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Old 19th June 2017, 08:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Fly over, drop an HBomb or better on the ********!!!!!
NK has hundreds of artillery guns in range of Seoul. The guns are hidden in caves in mountains.
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Old 19th June 2017, 08:21 PM   #36
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CNN: According to the North Korean government, Warmbier was detained because he had stolen a political poster from a restricted floor in his hotel. The next time the world saw Warmbier he was distraught, breaking down in front of Korean journalists in a video North Korea released in February 2016.

He admitted to the crime and begged for forgiveness. He pleaded to be released. Instead, he was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.
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Old 19th June 2017, 08:24 PM   #37
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It seems fishy.

More from WaPo: "The first time Gratton saw any sign of trouble was when the pair were among the last to go through security at the Pyongyang International Airport in the early morning of Jan. 2, 2016. They were running late because the hotel had mysteriously and uncharacteristically missed their wake-up call."

From the NYT: "At a news conference last year, Mr. Warmbier acknowledged stealing the poster and said that he had done so because an acquaintance had offered to give him a used car worth $10,000 in exchange for it. “I made the worst mistake of my life,” Mr. Warmbier said. Whether the confession was genuine or coerced was not clear." Has this person ever come forward to verify Mr. Warmbier's account?
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Old 19th June 2017, 08:42 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
See comment #23. I see a person...
So nothing like proof.
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Old 19th June 2017, 08:57 PM   #39
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Curiouser and curiouser

From Time Magazine: "A Young Pioneer representative will go through the process last, to make sure the group has gone through smoothly. Warmbier was the last of his group to check in, and thus there was only one non-Korean witness to what happened next: 24-year-old Briton Charlotte Guttridge. When she noticed that he was taking longer than usual, she began to walk over to him, only to be told by an insistent airport official that she had to pass through immigration immediately."
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Old 19th June 2017, 10:11 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The sad news on the US student, Otto Warmbier, returned home to his family, is that he has died. He was jailed in North Korea for a prank and sent back to the USA in a coma, after 15 months of his sentence, with brain trauma.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40335169

What sanctions can be taken, if any?
Congress seems to be inclined to ban travel to NK by U.S. citizens.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.724139090ca9
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