[Continuation] The Trump Presidency, Part II - Page 17

Childlike Empress · 16th July 2017, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I don't know if this warning was posted the entire time.

It has been there since web.archive.org took the first capture hours after the page went up.

Childlike Empress · 16th July 2017, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I fixed the PDF link in all of posts.

I also cannot find any other PDF files from the White House with similar user comments on other subjects.

I searched for "white house comments received pdf", since that is similar to the title of the emails PDF. I'd be interested if anyone else can find anything.

Does this help?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=comments-receiv...whitehouse.gov

mgidm86 · 16th July 2017, 02:07 PM

I'm not sure I'm looking at that site correctly. The first email is from June 29th. When was this announcement first posted?

ETA:
Whatever, there is precedent for this as far as I can see.

mgidm86 · 16th July 2017, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Does this help?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=comments-receiv...whitehouse.gov

Well there we go.

ETA:
This discussion is happening in two different threads. I'm going to stay in this one.

jimbob · 16th July 2017, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I fixed the PDF link in all of posts.

I also cannot find any other PDF files from the White House with similar user comments on other subjects.

I searched for "white house comments received pdf", since that is similar to the title of the emails PDF. I'd be interested if anyone else can find anything.

Thank you, I'm not sure that Ann Onomus would be too worried about her details being published.

But as you said, it is disturbing.

mgidm86 · 16th July 2017, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by jimbob

Thank you, I'm not sure that Ann Onomus would be too worried about her details being published.

But as you said, it is disturbing.

I take it back. It seems this is normal behavior for the White House - making such comments available. I don't know how often it happens and under what circumstances, but I can't fault Trump for making these comments public, unless, once again, I am convinced otherwise.

ETA: Stephanie Frasca from 1*** Cross Point Road, McKinney, ** might care about her information. Some of these people even used their work email, complete with signature. That's dumb.

I didn't know the government posted this information, glad I do now.

I wonder how they decide what to publish. Is every email ever written available, or just some? I'm still not crazy about this, and I think the voter fraud thing behind it is the actual fraud. But as for the comments themselves, oh well.

Skeptic Ginger · 16th July 2017, 02:54 PM

Welcome to backwards world.

Myron Ebell, Top climate skeptic to lead Trump's EPA transition team

Trump names Scott Pruitt, Oklahoma attorney general suing EPA on climate change, to head the EPA

Anti-public-school promoter DeVos appointed to be sec of education.

Would-have-eliminated-the-dept-of-energy Perry appointed to lead the department of energy.

Crazy Carson appointed to head HUD.

Tom Price, big critic of the ACA, appointed to head the HHS. He thinks God, not treatment will cure addicts.

Birth control skeptic Teresa Manning to lead the nation’s family planning program, and abstinence only extremist Valerie Huber appointed to another top HHS job.

Trump Appoints Radical Anti-LGBT Activist to Lead HHS Civil Rights Office

Forbes: New CDC Head Fitzgerald Peddled Controversial 'Anti-Aging Medicine' Before Leaving Private Practice

AG Sessions wants to go back to the jailing pot smokers.

How can he possibly be appointing all these awful people? Is it Bannon? Is it Trump's latching onto the Evangelical movement to get elected that lead to some of these appointments? Was Trump always involved with that many fringe believers? One or two, OK, so he's a Birther. But crazy believers in every field? Does one lead to the next and the next?

Minoosh · 16th July 2017, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I didn't know the government posted this information, glad I do now.

There is such a thing as anonymizing comments, right? There must be since spell check tells me that anonymizing is in fact a word!

I didn't realize the feds were asking for last-4-digits-of Social and DOB. It shouldn't surprise me, I guess, but I'm glad that most SOS's told Trump to pound sand. Street addresses, though - that information is inseparably bound to voter rolls.

This administration ostensibly cares about states' rights - maybe a block grant could be made to each state to audit their voter database. They probably should be audited periodically, not necessarily on name-by-name basis but with a sufficient randomized sampling.

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I wonder how they decide what to publish. Is every email ever written available, or just some? I'm still not crazy about this, and I think the voter fraud thing behind it is the actual fraud. But as for the comments themselves, oh well.

The comments I read were all negative, but most included just email addresses.

If we're afraid to give out even our email addresses, the cyber-bullies do win. Like I said, maybe keep one private and one public account ... which will favor younger and more tech-savvy voters. No perfect solution I guess.

The sad truth is, probably bad actors already have access to everything they need to hack your identity.

WilliamSeger · 16th July 2017, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

The sad truth is, probably bad actors already have access to everything they need to hack your identity.

Yes, but even just giving email addresses and party affiliations, this list would make it much easier for non-tech-savvy yahoos to get mailing lists for everything from scamming to harassment.

CapelDodger · 16th July 2017, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

Emails sent to a government agency as part of public comment are public comment.

I obviously despise Trump and I don't see how this is a privacy issue.

Any more than the "CNN doxxing" line is, of course. The tension here is felt by those who feel a need to treat one as if it is and the other as if it ain't.

quadraginta · 16th July 2017, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

<snip>
This is intimidation. People may think twice before emailing the government now. They may think twice about commenting at all anywhere eventually. It isn't just these particular names and addresses that are at issue.

<snip>

Probably not an unintended consequence.

CapelDodger · 16th July 2017, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

Probably not an unintended consequence.

Better to post nothing than something purely conspiratorial, to my mind.

quadraginta · 16th July 2017, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

Better to post nothing than something purely conspiratorial, to my mind.

Why do you call it that?

Do you believe that they would be unaware of this as a potential consequence?

Do you believe that if they were not they would completely disregard it?

Do you believe it was done completely unconsciously, with nobody who had anything to do with it having any idea at all that there might be some privacy issues involved?

CapelDodger · 16th July 2017, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by quadraginta

Why do you call it that?

Onlyfrom a conspiratorial viewpoint can this release be regarded as deliberately intimidatory.

Quote:

Do you believe that they would be unaware of this as a potential consequence?

If they think it matters they're lost in the swamp.

Quote:

Do you believe that if they were not they would completely disregard it?

Do you believe it was done completely unconsciously, with nobody who had anything to do with it having any idea at all that there might be some privacy issues involved?

What I don't believe is that this is a bell ringing around the world, because it really isn't. Nobody is being intimidated by this stuff unless by choice.

quadraginta · 16th July 2017, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by CapelDodger

Onlyfrom a conspiratorial viewpoint can this release be regarded as deliberately intimidatory.

<snip>

You make it sound so ominous.

I think you are overworking the concept of conspiracy.

a_unique_person · 16th July 2017, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

If it was only the information of the critics that got released I'll call that deliberate. If everyone, pro and con had their information released it's probably just a screw up.

I'm guessing someone puts the document together. They think of running it past one of the administration's attorneys to get a legal check on it. Oh. There aren't any.

Minoosh · 16th July 2017, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

And figuring out what the Democratic Party is stands for. We have what they're against down but not what they're for. Healthcare seems like a solid issue and maybe coming up with a plan to transition the economy of the rust belt would be a good start.

I was personally won over by the fact that in 2011 or so, the federal government wanted me to have health insurance, vs. the insurance companies who were looking for reasons to disqualify me. Private firms offered no automatic electronic payments ... hoping I think for an excuse to drop people ... and stupidly I let COBRA benefits lapse because my stamped, addressed envelope got buried under other paperwork.

After being turned down and being without insurance I qualified for the PCIP - Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan - and was directly insured by the federal government for a year or two. It impressed me that the feds wanted me to have insurance, as opposed to insurers looking for an opportunity to drop me. I do believe this could be a huge asset to Democratic candidates, but that means there should be serious strategizing in gerrymandered districts to make sure good Democratic candidates are in the pipeline. I wouldn't know where to start, but state-level party structures need to be looking at this right now.

There are formidable obstacles to actually reforming the system, but just knowing that one party gave a damn was encouraging to me.

McHrozni · 16th July 2017, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

How can he possibly be appointing all these awful people? Is it Bannon? Is it Trump's latching onto the Evangelical movement to get elected that lead to some of these appointments? Was Trump always involved with that many fringe believers? One or two, OK, so he's a Birther. But crazy believers in every field? Does one lead to the next and the next?

Belief in conspiracy theories is a form of mental disease, I think. We do know that if you believe in one of them, you're much more likely you'll believe in several. Thank your lucky stars Al Gore didn't win in 2000, or else he'd 'reopen' 9/11 investigation which would 'find' compelling evidence of LIHOP if not MIHOP.

I'm sort of surprised he hasn't acted against Chemtrails yet.

McHrozni

McHrozni · 16th July 2017, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

And figuring out what the Democratic Party is stands for. We have what they're against down but not what they're for. Healthcare seems like a solid issue and maybe coming up with a plan to transition the economy of the rust belt would be a good start.

Trump is in no small part a result of the collapse in the Democrat party agenda. He could never win against a credible party that would field credible opponents. Neither could other Republican crazies for that matter. US politics needs an overhaul, at a minimum it needs an end to gerrymandering and obligatory participation in elections. The first one doesn't need a further explanation, the second one should cut down substantially on the negative approach to elections, where the focus is primarily on making the other guy look worse than you do, so the electorate chooses you as the lesser evil. If it wouldn't cut on such tactics immediately it would at least serve to reduce the yield from such tactics and eventually reduce its' use.

These two reforms are something that might be doable. I'd be all for something more profound (e.g. single transferable vote), but that's impossible to achieve anytime soon.

McHrozni

SezMe · 16th July 2017, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

... I voted for Trump ...

Are you happy with your vote now? I mean in general, not regarding the privacy issue, per se.

SezMe · 16th July 2017, 11:44 PM

This is funny. First, McHrozni states:

Originally Posted by McHrozni

Belief in conspiracy theories is a form of mental disease, I think.

Ok. Then he asserts:

Originally Posted by McHrozni

Thank your lucky stars Al Gore didn't win in 2000, or else he'd 'reopen' 9/11 investigation which would 'find' compelling evidence of LIHOP if not MIHOP.

Brings to mind the phrase, hung by his own petard.

SezMe · 16th July 2017, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by McHrozni

US politics needs an overhaul, at a minimum it needs an end to gerrymandering ....

Absolutely agree.

Originally Posted by McHrozni

.... and obligatory participation in elections. The first one doesn't need a further explanation, the second one should cut down substantially on the negative approach to elections, where the focus is primarily on making the other guy look worse than you do, so the electorate chooses you as the lesser evil. If it wouldn't cut on such tactics immediately it would at least serve to reduce the yield from such tactics and eventually reduce its' use.

I have two problems with this part. First, I don't see how obligatory voting cuts down on negative ads. They're used because they have proven to be effective. If you force people to vote who don't give a damn, the negative ads will be even more effective.

Second, it's clear to me that we already have way, way too many ill-informed or totally uninformed voters as it is. Forcing people to vote ignorantly or - even worse, frivolously - actually diminishes my vote. I'm not for it (for obvious reasons) but sometimes I yearn for an election where the voter has to show some even rudimentary awareness of the issues before being allowed to vote.

McHrozni · 17th July 2017, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Brings to mind the phrase, hung by his own petard.

The bolded "he" in this sentence:

Thank your lucky stars Al Gore didn't win in 2000, or else he'd 'reopen' 9/11 investigation which would 'find' compelling evidence of LIHOP if not MIHOP.

refers to Donald Trump

Trump won't go after a fellow Republican as eagerly as he'd go after a Democrat.

McHrozni

Civet · 17th July 2017, 10:26 AM

Trump gets some praise from the head of the Border Patrol union. He's practically fawning. Another Trump win.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bo...rticle/2628828

Stacko · 17th July 2017, 11:51 AM

The most damaging appointment strikes again.

FORFEITURE SIREN: In speech today, AG Sessions says he'll be issuing a new directive to increase asset forfeiture

alfaniner · 17th July 2017, 12:05 PM

Great, now we're having "theme" weeks. This one is "Made in America". I have to wonder what other themes The PDJT is going to come up with.

Stacko · 17th July 2017, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Great, now we're having "theme" weeks. This one is "Made in America". I have to wonder what other themes The PDJT is going to come up with.

They've been doing it since the beginning but every week turns into consumed in scandal by our own stupidity and incompetence week.

Spindrift · 17th July 2017, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Great, now we're having "theme" weeks. This one is "Made in America". I have to wonder what other themes The PDJT is going to come up with.

Every week seems to be "Bring Your Children to Work" week for Trump.

Civet · 17th July 2017, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Stacko

The most damaging appointment strikes again.

FORFEITURE SIREN: In speech today, AG Sessions says he'll be issuing a new directive to increase asset forfeiture

As I recall, asset forfeiture is one of those issues with fairly broad dislike that crosses partisan lines. Might be something Democrats can make hay out of.

Stacko · 17th July 2017, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Civet

As I recall, asset forfeiture is one of those issues with fairly broad dislike that crosses partisan lines. Might be something Democrats can make hay out of.

Being able to ~~steal~~ "confiscate" property without convicting the owner tends to over like a lead balloon with most people.

timhau · 17th July 2017, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Great, now we're having "theme" weeks. This one is "Made in America".

What does that mean in practice? No buying Ivanka's stuff this week?

alfaniner · 17th July 2017, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by timhau

What does that mean in practice? No buying Ivanka's stuff this week?

An article headline I just saw shows apparently they already have to defend that.

NoahFence · 17th July 2017, 03:25 PM

Oi vey.

quadraginta · 17th July 2017, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by alfaniner

Great, now we're having "theme" weeks. This one is "Made in America". I have to wonder what other themes The PDJT is going to come up with.

He's already used Take Your Kid To Work about as far as he can, so that one's out.

For a few years, anyway.

(Drat. Ninja'd by Spindrift.)

SezMe · 17th July 2017, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by McHrozni

The bolded "he" in this sentence:

Thank your lucky stars Al Gore didn't win in 2000, or else he'd 'reopen' 9/11 investigation which would 'find' compelling evidence of LIHOP if not MIHOP.

refers to Donald Trump

Trump won't go after a fellow Republican as eagerly as he'd go after a Democrat.i

Aha!

SezMe · 17th July 2017, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

The media has no role other than to generate a profit.

Not according to the Constitution.

BobTheCoward · 17th July 2017, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

Not according to the Constitution.

I don't care what the Constitution says.

thaiboxerken · 17th July 2017, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I don't care what the Constitution says.

I was just going to point out to the rest of the forum that arguing with you about Constitutional issues is pointless because of this. Thank you for ninja'ing me.

SezMe · 17th July 2017, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I was just going to point out to the rest of the forum that arguing with you ~~about Constitutional issues~~ is pointless because of this. Thank you for ninja'ing me.

FTFY

NoahFence · 17th July 2017, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward

I don't care what the Constitution says.

I think we got that by now.

16th July 2017, 02:01 PM	#641
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 14,422	Originally Posted by mgidm86 I don't know if this warning was posted the entire time. It has been there since web.archive.org took the first capture hours after the page went up.
	__________________ De-Putin-Nazify America! ...progress updates [1] [2] ...

16th July 2017, 02:06 PM	#642
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 14,422	Originally Posted by mgidm86 I fixed the PDF link in all of posts. I also cannot find any other PDF files from the White House with similar user comments on other subjects. I searched for "white house comments received pdf", since that is similar to the title of the emails PDF. I'd be interested if anyone else can find anything. Does this help? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=comments-receiv...whitehouse.gov
	__________________ De-Putin-Nazify America! ...progress updates [1] [2] ...

16th July 2017, 02:07 PM	#643
mgidm86 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,613	I'm not sure I'm looking at that site correctly. The first email is from June 29th. When was this announcement first posted? ETA: Whatever, there is precedent for this as far as I can see.
mgidm86 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,613	__________________ I don't care. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/daredevil-dave-2-motorcycle/id1013225596?mt= Last edited by mgidm86; 16th July 2017 at 02:12 PM.

16th July 2017, 02:10 PM	#644
mgidm86 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,613	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress Does this help? http://lmgtfy.com/?q=comments-receiv...whitehouse.gov Well there we go. ETA: This discussion is happening in two different threads. I'm going to stay in this one.
mgidm86 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,613	__________________ I don't care. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/daredevil-dave-2-motorcycle/id1013225596?mt= Last edited by mgidm86; 16th July 2017 at 02:11 PM.

16th July 2017, 02:15 PM	#645
jimbob Uncritical "thinker" Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: UK Posts: 15,147	Originally Posted by mgidm86 I fixed the PDF link in all of posts. I also cannot find any other PDF files from the White House with similar user comments on other subjects. I searched for "white house comments received pdf", since that is similar to the title of the emails PDF. I'd be interested if anyone else can find anything. Thank you, I'm not sure that Ann Onomus would be too worried about her details being published. But as you said, it is disturbing.
	__________________ OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

16th July 2017, 02:20 PM	#646
mgidm86 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,613	Originally Posted by jimbob Thank you, I'm not sure that Ann Onomus would be too worried about her details being published. But as you said, it is disturbing. I take it back. It seems this is normal behavior for the White House - making such comments available. I don't know how often it happens and under what circumstances, but I can't fault Trump for making these comments public, unless, once again, I am convinced otherwise. ETA: Stephanie Frasca from 1* Cross Point Road, McKinney, might care about her information. Some of these people even used their work email, complete with signature. That's dumb. I didn't know the government posted this information, glad I do now. I wonder how they decide what to publish. Is every email ever written available, or just some? I'm still not crazy about this, and I think the voter fraud thing behind it is the actual fraud. But as for the comments themselves, oh well.
mgidm86 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,613	__________________ I don't care. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/daredevil-dave-2-motorcycle/id1013225596?mt= Last edited by mgidm86; 16th July 2017 at 02:26 PM.

16th July 2017, 02:54 PM	#647
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 62,488	Welcome to backwards world. Myron Ebell, Top climate skeptic to lead Trump's EPA transition team Trump names Scott Pruitt, Oklahoma attorney general suing EPA on climate change, to head the EPA Anti-public-school promoter DeVos appointed to be sec of education. Would-have-eliminated-the-dept-of-energy Perry appointed to lead the department of energy. Crazy Carson appointed to head HUD. Tom Price, big critic of the ACA, appointed to head the HHS. He thinks God, not treatment will cure addicts. Birth control skeptic Teresa Manning to lead the nation’s family planning program, and abstinence only extremist Valerie Huber appointed to another top HHS job. Trump Appoints Radical Anti-LGBT Activist to Lead HHS Civil Rights Office Forbes: New CDC Head Fitzgerald Peddled Controversial 'Anti-Aging Medicine' Before Leaving Private Practice AG Sessions wants to go back to the jailing pot smokers. How can he possibly be appointing all these awful people? Is it Bannon? Is it Trump's latching onto the Evangelical movement to get elected that lead to some of these appointments? Was Trump always involved with that many fringe believers? One or two, OK, so he's a Birther. But crazy believers in every field? Does one lead to the next and the next?

16th July 2017, 03:05 PM	#648
Minoosh Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,149	Originally Posted by mgidm86 I didn't know the government posted this information, glad I do now. There is such a thing as anonymizing comments, right? There must be since spell check tells me that anonymizing is in fact a word! I didn't realize the feds were asking for last-4-digits-of Social and DOB. It shouldn't surprise me, I guess, but I'm glad that most SOS's told Trump to pound sand. Street addresses, though - that information is inseparably bound to voter rolls. This administration ostensibly cares about states' rights - maybe a block grant could be made to each state to audit their voter database. They probably should be audited periodically, not necessarily on name-by-name basis but with a sufficient randomized sampling. Originally Posted by mgidm86 I wonder how they decide what to publish. Is every email ever written available, or just some? I'm still not crazy about this, and I think the voter fraud thing behind it is the actual fraud. But as for the comments themselves, oh well. The comments I read were all negative, but most included just email addresses. If we're afraid to give out even our email addresses, the cyber-bullies do win. Like I said, maybe keep one private and one public account ... which will favor younger and more tech-savvy voters. No perfect solution I guess. The sad truth is, probably bad actors already have access to everything they need to hack your identity.
Minoosh Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,149

16th July 2017, 03:50 PM	#649
WilliamSeger Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,137	Originally Posted by Minoosh The sad truth is, probably bad actors already have access to everything they need to hack your identity. Yes, but even just giving email addresses and party affiliations, this list would make it much easier for non-tech-savvy yahoos to get mailing lists for everything from scamming to harassment.

16th July 2017, 04:06 PM	#650
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 22,419	Originally Posted by BobTheCoward Emails sent to a government agency as part of public comment are public comment. I obviously despise Trump and I don't see how this is a privacy issue. Any more than the "CNN doxxing" line is, of course. The tension here is felt by those who feel a need to treat one as if it is and the other as if it ain't.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

16th July 2017, 04:42 PM	#651
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 18,680	Originally Posted by mgidm86 <snip> This is intimidation. People may think twice before emailing the government now. They may think twice about commenting at all anywhere eventually. It isn't just these particular names and addresses that are at issue. <snip> Probably not an unintended consequence.
	__________________ "It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."

16th July 2017, 04:53 PM	#652
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 22,419	Originally Posted by quadraginta Probably not an unintended consequence. Better to post nothing than something purely conspiratorial, to my mind.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

16th July 2017, 05:35 PM	#653
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 18,680	Originally Posted by CapelDodger Better to post nothing than something purely conspiratorial, to my mind. Why do you call it that? Do you believe that they would be unaware of this as a potential consequence? Do you believe that if they were not they would completely disregard it? Do you believe it was done completely unconsciously, with nobody who had anything to do with it having any idea at all that there might be some privacy issues involved?
	__________________ "It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."

16th July 2017, 06:31 PM	#654
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 22,419	Originally Posted by quadraginta Why do you call it that? Onlyfrom a conspiratorial viewpoint can this release be regarded as deliberately intimidatory. Quote: Do you believe that they would be unaware of this as a potential consequence? If they think it matters they're lost in the swamp. Quote: Do you believe that if they were not they would completely disregard it? Do you believe it was done completely unconsciously, with nobody who had anything to do with it having any idea at all that there might be some privacy issues involved? What I don't believe is that this is a bell ringing around the world, because it really isn't. Nobody is being intimidated by this stuff unless by choice.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

16th July 2017, 07:49 PM	#655
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 18,680	Originally Posted by CapelDodger Onlyfrom a conspiratorial viewpoint can this release be regarded as deliberately intimidatory. <snip> You make it sound so ominous. I think you are overworking the concept of conspiracy.
	__________________ "It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."

16th July 2017, 09:22 PM	#656
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 38,011	Originally Posted by Craig4 If it was only the information of the critics that got released I'll call that deliberate. If everyone, pro and con had their information released it's probably just a screw up. I'm guessing someone puts the document together. They think of running it past one of the administration's attorneys to get a legal check on it. Oh. There aren't any.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes Last edited by a_unique_person; 16th July 2017 at 09:46 PM.

16th July 2017, 10:02 PM	#657
Minoosh Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,149	Originally Posted by Craig4 And figuring out what the Democratic Party is stands for. We have what they're against down but not what they're for. Healthcare seems like a solid issue and maybe coming up with a plan to transition the economy of the rust belt would be a good start. I was personally won over by the fact that in 2011 or so, the federal government wanted me to have health insurance, vs. the insurance companies who were looking for reasons to disqualify me. Private firms offered no automatic electronic payments ... hoping I think for an excuse to drop people ... and stupidly I let COBRA benefits lapse because my stamped, addressed envelope got buried under other paperwork. After being turned down and being without insurance I qualified for the PCIP - Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan - and was directly insured by the federal government for a year or two. It impressed me that the feds wanted me to have insurance, as opposed to insurers looking for an opportunity to drop me. I do believe this could be a huge asset to Democratic candidates, but that means there should be serious strategizing in gerrymandered districts to make sure good Democratic candidates are in the pipeline. I wouldn't know where to start, but state-level party structures need to be looking at this right now. There are formidable obstacles to actually reforming the system, but just knowing that one party gave a damn was encouraging to me.
Minoosh Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6,149

16th July 2017, 10:21 PM	#658
McHrozni Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 10,365	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger How can he possibly be appointing all these awful people? Is it Bannon? Is it Trump's latching onto the Evangelical movement to get elected that lead to some of these appointments? Was Trump always involved with that many fringe believers? One or two, OK, so he's a Birther. But crazy believers in every field? Does one lead to the next and the next? Belief in conspiracy theories is a form of mental disease, I think. We do know that if you believe in one of them, you're much more likely you'll believe in several. Thank your lucky stars Al Gore didn't win in 2000, or else he'd 'reopen' 9/11 investigation which would 'find' compelling evidence of LIHOP if not MIHOP. I'm sort of surprised he hasn't acted against Chemtrails yet. McHrozni
	__________________ لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه

16th July 2017, 10:26 PM	#659
McHrozni Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 10,365	Originally Posted by Craig4 And figuring out what the Democratic Party is stands for. We have what they're against down but not what they're for. Healthcare seems like a solid issue and maybe coming up with a plan to transition the economy of the rust belt would be a good start. Trump is in no small part a result of the collapse in the Democrat party agenda. He could never win against a credible party that would field credible opponents. Neither could other Republican crazies for that matter. US politics needs an overhaul, at a minimum it needs an end to gerrymandering and obligatory participation in elections. The first one doesn't need a further explanation, the second one should cut down substantially on the negative approach to elections, where the focus is primarily on making the other guy look worse than you do, so the electorate chooses you as the lesser evil. If it wouldn't cut on such tactics immediately it would at least serve to reduce the yield from such tactics and eventually reduce its' use. These two reforms are something that might be doable. I'd be all for something more profound (e.g. single transferable vote), but that's impossible to achieve anytime soon. McHrozni
	__________________ لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه Last edited by McHrozni; 16th July 2017 at 10:35 PM.

16th July 2017, 11:33 PM	#660
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 22,149	Originally Posted by mgidm86 ... I voted for Trump ... Are you happy with your vote now? I mean in general, not regarding the privacy issue, per se.

16th July 2017, 11:44 PM	#661
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 22,149	This is funny. First, McHrozni states: Originally Posted by McHrozni Belief in conspiracy theories is a form of mental disease, I think. Ok. Then he asserts: Originally Posted by McHrozni Thank your lucky stars Al Gore didn't win in 2000, or else he'd 'reopen' 9/11 investigation which would 'find' compelling evidence of LIHOP if not MIHOP. Brings to mind the phrase, hung by his own petard.

16th July 2017, 11:54 PM	#662
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 22,149	Originally Posted by McHrozni US politics needs an overhaul, at a minimum it needs an end to gerrymandering .... Absolutely agree. Originally Posted by McHrozni .... and obligatory participation in elections. The first one doesn't need a further explanation, the second one should cut down substantially on the negative approach to elections, where the focus is primarily on making the other guy look worse than you do, so the electorate chooses you as the lesser evil. If it wouldn't cut on such tactics immediately it would at least serve to reduce the yield from such tactics and eventually reduce its' use. I have two problems with this part. First, I don't see how obligatory voting cuts down on negative ads. They're used because they have proven to be effective. If you force people to vote who don't give a damn, the negative ads will be even more effective. Second, it's clear to me that we already have way, way too many ill-informed or totally uninformed voters as it is. Forcing people to vote ignorantly or - even worse, frivolously - actually diminishes my vote. I'm not for it (for obvious reasons) but sometimes I yearn for an election where the voter has to show some even rudimentary awareness of the issues before being allowed to vote.

17th July 2017, 12:07 AM	#663
McHrozni Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 10,365	Originally Posted by SezMe Brings to mind the phrase, hung by his own petard. The bolded "he" in this sentence: Thank your lucky stars Al Gore didn't win in 2000, or else he'd 'reopen' 9/11 investigation which would 'find' compelling evidence of LIHOP if not MIHOP. refers to Donald Trump Trump won't go after a fellow Republican as eagerly as he'd go after a Democrat. McHrozni
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17th July 2017, 10:26 AM	#664
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,044	Trump gets some praise from the head of the Border Patrol union. He's practically fawning. Another Trump win. http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bo...rticle/2628828
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,044

17th July 2017, 11:51 AM	#665
Stacko Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,294	The most damaging appointment strikes again. FORFEITURE SIREN: In speech today, AG Sessions says he'll be issuing a new directive to increase asset forfeiture
Stacko Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,294

17th July 2017, 12:05 PM	#666
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 17,023	Great, now we're having "theme" weeks. This one is "Made in America". I have to wonder what other themes The PDJT is going to come up with.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

17th July 2017, 12:10 PM	#667
Stacko Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,294	Originally Posted by alfaniner Great, now we're having "theme" weeks. This one is "Made in America". I have to wonder what other themes The PDJT is going to come up with. They've been doing it since the beginning but every week turns into consumed in scandal by our own stupidity and incompetence week.
Stacko Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,294

17th July 2017, 12:12 PM	#668
Spindrift Time Person of the Year, 2006 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 18,645	Originally Posted by alfaniner Great, now we're having "theme" weeks. This one is "Made in America". I have to wonder what other themes The PDJT is going to come up with. Every week seems to be "Bring Your Children to Work" week for Trump.
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon

17th July 2017, 12:15 PM	#669
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,044	Originally Posted by Stacko The most damaging appointment strikes again. FORFEITURE SIREN: In speech today, AG Sessions says he'll be issuing a new directive to increase asset forfeiture As I recall, asset forfeiture is one of those issues with fairly broad dislike that crosses partisan lines. Might be something Democrats can make hay out of.
Civet Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,044

17th July 2017, 12:17 PM	#670
Stacko Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,294	Originally Posted by Civet As I recall, asset forfeiture is one of those issues with fairly broad dislike that crosses partisan lines. Might be something Democrats can make hay out of. Being able to ~~steal~~ "confiscate" property without convicting the owner tends to over like a lead balloon with most people.
Stacko Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 8,294

17th July 2017, 01:00 PM	#671
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I? Posts: 12,464	Originally Posted by alfaniner Great, now we're having "theme" weeks. This one is "Made in America". What does that mean in practice? No buying Ivanka's stuff this week?
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

17th July 2017, 02:43 PM	#672
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 17,023	Originally Posted by timhau What does that mean in practice? No buying Ivanka's stuff this week? An article headline I just saw shows apparently they already have to defend that.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

17th July 2017, 03:25 PM	#673
NoahFence Psycho Kitty Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 20,808	Oi vey.
	__________________ you to the ignorant, uneducated portion ofAmerica too short sighted to see what's right in front of your cheeto loving faces.

17th July 2017, 03:45 PM	#674
quadraginta Becoming Beth Join Date: May 2009 Location: Central Vale of Humility Posts: 18,680	Originally Posted by alfaniner Great, now we're having "theme" weeks. This one is "Made in America". I have to wonder what other themes The PDJT is going to come up with. He's already used Take Your Kid To Work about as far as he can, so that one's out. For a few years, anyway. (Drat. Ninja'd by Spindrift.)
	__________________ "It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it." Last edited by quadraginta; 17th July 2017 at 03:49 PM.

17th July 2017, 05:27 PM	#675
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 22,149	Originally Posted by McHrozni The bolded "he" in this sentence: Thank your lucky stars Al Gore didn't win in 2000, or else he'd 'reopen' 9/11 investigation which would 'find' compelling evidence of LIHOP if not MIHOP. refers to Donald Trump Trump won't go after a fellow Republican as eagerly as he'd go after a Democrat.i Aha!