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Old 22nd April 2017, 05:34 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Fail to do what?
This has always been a problem point for them.

They want an "independent investigation" they can't define. All they claim is the "official investigations" are wrong while not providing a viable alternative.
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Old 24th April 2017, 08:19 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?
Not enough auto-fellation!!!!!!
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Old 24th April 2017, 10:37 AM   #43
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Blowing their own horns as it were................
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Old 24th April 2017, 11:40 AM   #44
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It was not a failure. It succeeded fairly well in separating some fools from their money. Richard Gage appears to have secured his financial future, David Ray Griffin made a decent bundle in retirement. Alex Jones pays his ex-wife $43,000 in alimony. Every month.

If your question is why didn't it succeed in changing everybody's mind about what really happened on 9-11, there are three main factors:

1. Obama's election.

2. The end of the Iraq war and the shift to the back burner of the Afghanistan war.

3. The "Truth" Movement constructed an elaborate Potemkin Village out of tissue paper which blew away the first time any wind hit it. I'd like to say that debunking was a challenge, but to be honest it was like playing tee-ball against a bunch of toddlers.
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Old 25th April 2017, 12:33 AM   #45
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I think we also have to consider the behaviour of truthers themselves. The way that the truthers I have encountered, both here and on Facebook, present their arguments only serves to alienate the unconvinced. Requests for evidence are met with evasion or insult; disagreement is met with derision, accusations of imbecility, docility or membership of some government agency, and there is a breathtaking level of ignorance of the facts, coupled with an almost complete absence of expertise in any relevant field, which nonetheless does not prevent an attitude of sneering superiority. Quite why they think this will convince anyone to join their cause is beyond me.
Truthers have only themselves to blame for the failure of their "movement".
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Old 25th April 2017, 08:48 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Fonebone View Post
Why did the Truth Movement fail ?

Because truthers were very gullible and easily duped with disinformation, misinformation and outright lies.
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Old 4th March 2019, 10:20 AM   #47
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I've been following the truth movement since 2004 and no longer believe in it.
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Old 4th March 2019, 05:33 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by lingdatang2 View Post
I've been following the truth movement since 2004 and no longer believe in it.
Congratulations.......
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Old 4th March 2019, 06:49 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by lingdatang2 View Post
I've been following the truth movement since 2004 and no longer believe in it.
What did it finally take for you to break away and when?

As a former Global Warming denier I can say it was looking into 9/11 that got me out. I saw the truthers making the same phony arguments I was and that lead to self reflection.
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Old 8th March 2019, 06:18 PM   #50
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Truth movement failed because its arguments were full of holes. Only people who wanted to believe that the USG or some powerful interest pulled it off and blamed it on crazy Arabs so they could start wars and cash out. They believe everything gov and media say is a lie. So their default is the official story is nothing but a cover up.

Very simply.... there is no there... there.
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Old 9th March 2019, 01:45 AM   #51
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Strangely, though, truthers never seem to question anything produced by their own, favoured media outlets.
RT, PressTV, even Infowars, when Jones has admitted he's making it up, are accepted at face value.
Funny, that.
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Old 9th March 2019, 03:00 AM   #52
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Because there was no truth in it?
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Old 11th March 2019, 03:22 AM   #53
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Recently most of the truther loons have morphed into Flat earth/Moon landing Hoaxers

With the upcoming 50 anniversary of Apollo moon landings watch for a tidal wave of ignorant crap about how never landed on moon Why its impossible to go to moon -
ie Van Allen Radiation belts, temperature of space frying everything and space suits wont work in space because - wait for it - air conditioning doesn't work in space …...
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Old 13th March 2019, 08:39 AM   #54
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The 9/11 Truth Movement failed because the genuine truth seekers who were around in the early days, genuinely looking for answers to as yet unanswered questions gradually moved on once they got those answers. This allowed the movement to be taken over by conspiracy believers who welded a political agenda to patently false technical claims.
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Old 14th March 2019, 07:38 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
The 9/11 Truth Movement failed because the genuine truth seekers who were around in the early days, genuinely looking for answers to as yet unanswered questions gradually moved on once they got those answers. This allowed the movement to be taken over by conspiracy believers who welded a political agenda to patently false technical claims.
As njslim alluded to, I believe many of them are just being contrarian. If they truly believe it's not because they've been swayed by whatever source they're quoting today - they start out with the belief that The Government\The Man\Science is wrong and cherry pick whatever backs them up, no matter how tenuous or inappropriate.
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Old 14th March 2019, 09:27 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
The 9/11 Truth Movement failed because the genuine truth seekers who were around in the early days, genuinely looking for answers to as yet unanswered questions gradually moved on once they got those answers. This allowed the movement to be taken over by conspiracy believers who welded a political agenda to patently false technical claims.
If left all the willfully ignorant people who truly are not interested in understanding the 3 collapses.
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:23 PM   #57
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It failed because the country, from the economy to money supply to even the military, is essentially controlled by the rich.
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Old 14th March 2019, 06:49 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
It failed because the country, from the economy to money supply to even the military, is essentially controlled by the rich.
My guess is that you don't know any rich people. If you did you'd understand who Cantor Fitzgerald was, and why this concept is ridiculous.
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:51 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
My guess is that you don't know any rich people. If you did you'd understand who Cantor Fitzgerald was, and why this concept is ridiculous.
Cantor Fitzgerald does not make up the wealthy in the U.S. but is only part of it.

Last edited by ralfyman; 15th March 2019 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 15th March 2019, 03:09 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
It failed because the country, from the economy to money supply to even the military, is essentially controlled by the rich.
And less wealthy people have been unable to provide a single shred of credible evidence for an inside job because.....

Over to you, ralfyman.
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Old 15th March 2019, 03:48 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
It failed because the country, from the economy to money supply to even the military, is essentially controlled by the rich.
Thar fails to explain why and how the Truth Movement failed. I think you need to fill in your several steps of thought between "The rich control the economy" to "TM failed. That's of course assuming there was any thinking behind your post; I could be mistaken.
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Old 15th March 2019, 12:05 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
Cantor Fitzgerald does not make up the wealthy in the U.S. but is only part of it.
Thanks for proving my point.

Cantor Fitzgerald moved billions of dollars in bonds each year. Their clients are the .01%, and many of them knew their traders on a personal level. You don't kill a major chunk of Cantor Fitzgerald personnel without consequences. Some of their clients were Saudis, and those Saudis cleaned house in the 18 months after the attacks. Private investigators were hired to look into the allegations of an inside job, and found nothing.

It was the Cantor Fitzgerald clientele who twisted the Bush Administration's arm into forming the 9-11 Commission.

In the end we found that the FBI and CIA screwed up while Al Qaeda did not.

In the years since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, a war the 9-11 Truthers felt was proof of an inside job, most Americans have come to realize that the Bush Administration used 9-11 to justify the invasion on faulty allegations, and that 75% of Americans didn't care at the time of the invasion. In the days after 9-11, Americans wanted blood, and we didn't care whose blood. Any Arab country that so much as looked at us sideways was going to get crushed, and Iraq was considered unfinished business by most Americans.

The "Truth" is that America - willingly - sold its soul in the name of blind vengeance, and today we're waking up to the fact that this truth is so much worse than phantom demolition teams in NYC.
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Old 15th March 2019, 10:32 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
It failed because the country, from the economy to money supply to even the military, is essentially controlled by the rich.
What? Are you still a CD truther, or what? Last time you made false claims about 9/11 investigations due to failed research. However, this is indicative of of why 9/11 "truth" failed.
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Old 16th March 2019, 12:10 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
And less wealthy people have been unable to provide a single shred of credible evidence for an inside job because.....

Over to you, ralfyman.
Of course, because most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.
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Old 16th March 2019, 12:16 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Thar fails to explain why and how the Truth Movement failed. I think you need to fill in your several steps of thought between "The rich control the economy" to "TM failed. That's of course assuming there was any thinking behind your post; I could be mistaken.
One may have to look at what happened after the attack, i.e., the so-called "war on terror" where the government used the event to justify an attack on Iraq and Afghanistan while ignoring Saudi Arabia. The irony is that the first response to my post referred to a firm that ironically sued KSA for funding the Al Qaeda. The next irony is that the suit was dismissed.
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Old 16th March 2019, 12:28 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Thanks for proving my point.

Cantor Fitzgerald moved billions of dollars in bonds each year. Their clients are the .01%, and many of them knew their traders on a personal level. You don't kill a major chunk of Cantor Fitzgerald personnel without consequences. Some of their clients were Saudis, and those Saudis cleaned house in the 18 months after the attacks. Private investigators were hired to look into the allegations of an inside job, and found nothing.

It was the Cantor Fitzgerald clientele who twisted the Bush Administration's arm into forming the 9-11 Commission.

In the end we found that the FBI and CIA screwed up while Al Qaeda did not.

In the years since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, a war the 9-11 Truthers felt was proof of an inside job, most Americans have come to realize that the Bush Administration used 9-11 to justify the invasion on faulty allegations, and that 75% of Americans didn't care at the time of the invasion. In the days after 9-11, Americans wanted blood, and we didn't care whose blood. Any Arab country that so much as looked at us sideways was going to get crushed, and Iraq was considered unfinished business by most Americans.

The "Truth" is that America - willingly - sold its soul in the name of blind vengeance, and today we're waking up to the fact that this truth is so much worse than phantom demolition teams in NYC.
Yes, that's the same Saudi Arabia that the government ignored while it eagerly called for an attack on Iraq and Afghanistan, and the same KSA that the firm sued because it claimed that the country funded Al Qaeda. Not surprisingly, the suit was eventually dropped. Gee, I wonder why.

Meanwhile, you were obsessing over Cantor, you skipped the news about unusual stock movement before the attack, for which authorities gave no comment, the tons of debris that were conveniently sold of as scrap for no valid reason, the same Commission that resorted to simulations and videos in its "investigation." And how many people were eventually hauled to court for that crime?

So, why was the KSA, a military ally of the U.S., funding the Al Qaeda (assuming that Cantor is right)? Didn't Al Qaeda stem from the same terror groups that were recruited by KSA, funded by the U.S., and trained by Pakistan? Wasn't Bin Laden, one of its leaders, from a family that was very close to the Bush family of Texas, and profited from U.S. base construction in KSA?

As time goes, more dirt about this tragedy shows up.
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Old 16th March 2019, 12:30 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
What? Are you still a CD truther, or what? Last time you made false claims about 9/11 investigations due to failed research. However, this is indicative of of why 9/11 "truth" failed.
I gave no false claims. FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
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Old 16th March 2019, 12:47 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
I gave no false claims. FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
So tell me more about FEMA, which is apparently not part of the government.
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Old 16th March 2019, 01:49 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
I gave no false claims. FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
Please quote these reports, and explain how it was that this physical evidence was not destroyed, as you previously claimed it had been.
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Old 16th March 2019, 02:08 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
Meanwhile, you were obsessing over Cantor, you skipped the news about unusual stock movement before the attack, for which authorities gave no comment,
False. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/put-paid/
Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
the tons of debris that were conveniently sold of as scrap for no valid reason,
After it had been examined thoroughly. Why do people usually sell things, ralfyman?
https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...d_Trade_Center

Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
the same Commission that resorted to simulations and videos in its "investigation."
What videos and simulations did the 9/11 Commission use, ralfyman?


Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
And how many people were eventually hauled to court for that crime?
How many of the dead hijackers would you like to have put on trial?


Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
So, why was the KSA, a military ally of the U.S., funding the Al Qaeda (assuming that Cantor is right)?
Why do you think?

Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
Didn't Al Qaeda stem from the same terror groups that were recruited by KSA, funded by the U.S., and trained by Pakistan?
Yes and no- which you would have known had you done any serious research into this. Al Qaeda was initially set up and funded by the Saudi and Kuwaiti governments to fight the Russians. Later it went rogue. It was never funded by the US.

Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post

Wasn't Bin Laden, one of its leaders, from a family that was very close to the Bush family of Texas, and profited from U.S. base construction in KSA?
Are you saying that the relatives of criminals should also be treated as criminals? If not, what are you saying?


Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
As time goes, more dirt about this tragedy shows up.
Not really, Anyone who has done a modicum of basic research will have known about this for years. Have you been busy elsewhere?
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Old 16th March 2019, 03:34 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
As njslim alluded to, I believe many of them are just being contrarian. If they truly believe it's not because they've been swayed by whatever source they're quoting today - they start out with the belief that The Government\The Man\Science is wrong and cherry pick whatever backs them up, no matter how tenuous or inappropriate.
For most 9/11 conspiracy believers remaining today the theme seems to be anything but planes. They absolutely have to reject out of hand any theory that planes could have done the damage they did, or, in many cases that planes were even used. Pure contrarianism.
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Old 16th March 2019, 10:14 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Mark F View Post
The 9/11 Truth Movement failed because the genuine truth seekers who were around in the early days, genuinely looking for answers to as yet unanswered questions gradually moved on once they got those answers. This allowed the movement to be taken over by conspiracy believers who welded a political agenda to patently false technical claims.
You give the remainders way too much credit. This is the truth movement :

1- mostly activists that still want Bush tried for war crimes or perhaps some other cause, and like any typical activist, are willing to tell any lie cuz they truly believe in their cause. Tony fits in this category, IMHO

2- trolls. Don’t believe in what they’re saying. Just want to stir the pot. They are addicted to the endorphin rush that they get when they get a response. But like any addict, they develop a resistance to it and so need bigger and bigger responses to feed the addiction.

3- there’s a few that truly believe. They are mental and need intervention
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Old 16th March 2019, 11:49 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
Yes, that's the same Saudi Arabia that the government ignored while it eagerly called for an attack on Iraq and Afghanistan, and the same KSA that the firm sued because it claimed that the country funded Al Qaeda. Not surprisingly, the suit was eventually dropped. Gee, I wonder why.
It wasn't the Saudi Government, just Saudis, individual people with money.

We invaded Afghanistan because that is where Al Qaeda and bin Laden where hiding out. Nobody in August, 2001 wanted to invade Afghanistan.

No winnable lawsuit has ever been dropped in the history of lawyers.

Have you spent much time in the real world?

Quote:
Meanwhile, you were obsessing over Cantor, you skipped the news about unusual stock movement before the attack, for which authorities gave no comment,
Oh, you must be new. This is a lie, it was proven to be a lie. The authorities did comment, they said there was nothing sinister. Just another 9-11 urban legend.

Quote:
the tons of debris that were conveniently sold of as scrap for no valid reason, the same Commission that resorted to simulations and videos in its "investigation."
We knew the cause of the collapse on 9-11-2001. Two commercial aircraft crashed into each building, the resulting structural damage coupled with fire brought them down.

There were over 70 floors of steel not relevant to the investigation.

And yes, the Commission resorted to video and simulations because building life-size replicas of the Twin Towers would be stupid.

Quote:
And how many people were eventually hauled to court for that crime?
The surviving conspirators are still at Guantanamo Bay.

Quote:
So, why was the KSA, a military ally of the U.S., funding the Al Qaeda (assuming that Cantor is right)?
It wasn't.

Quote:
Didn't Al Qaeda stem from the same terror groups that were recruited by KSA, funded by the U.S., and trained by Pakistan?
No. Al Qaeda wanted nothing to do with the Great Satan.

Quote:
Wasn't Bin Laden, one of its leaders, from a family that was very close to the Bush family of Texas, and profited from U.S. base construction in KSA?
The bin Ladens were not close to the Bush family.

There are 600 members of the bin Laden family. Osama bin Laden had 22 brothers and sisters.

The Saudi Binladin Group (SBG) was founded in 1931, and is one of the go-to construction firms in the entire Middle East. There is no record of them building the USAF annex at the Saudi AF base, but even if they did so what? Contracting for construction in a foreign country is a headache, and using a company like SBG is the smart choice even today.


Quote:
As time goes, more dirt about this tragedy shows up
The evidence shows the opposite. 19 Al Qaeda terrorists hijacked four commercial jetliners and flew them into the WTC, and Pentagon. The last plane crashed as the passengers staged an uprising. The plot may have been uncovered if it were not for FBI and CIA in-fighting. After the attacks the US asked the Taliban to hand over bin Laden and his fellow Al Qaeda members, and they refused, so we invaded. Later the Bush Administration used the attacks of 9-11 to justify an invasion of Iraq.

These are the unassailable facts of 9-11.
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Old 16th March 2019, 01:20 PM   #74
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Nice lady who lived across the hall from me (since has moved) lost 2 of her sons who worked at Cantor- Fitzgerald

Her son-in-law, a federal prosecutor in NJ, was a counsel to the 9/11 Commission
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Old 16th March 2019, 03:50 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Seymour Butz View Post
You give the remainders way too much credit. This is the truth movement :

1- mostly activists that still want Bush tried for war crimes or perhaps some other cause, and like any typical activist, are willing to tell any lie cuz they truly believe in their cause. Tony fits in this category, IMHO

2- trolls. Don’t believe in what they’re saying. Just want to stir the pot. They are addicted to the endorphin rush that they get when they get a response. But like any addict, they develop a resistance to it and so need bigger and bigger responses to feed the addiction.

3- there’s a few that truly believe. They are mental and need intervention
Troll's, POE's and the hopelessly unreachable.
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Old 17th March 2019, 03:15 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
It wasn't the Saudi Government, just Saudis, individual people with money.

We invaded Afghanistan because that is where Al Qaeda and bin Laden where hiding out. Nobody in August, 2001 wanted to invade Afghanistan.

No winnable lawsuit has ever been dropped in the history of lawyers.

Have you spent much time in the real world?



Oh, you must be new. This is a lie, it was proven to be a lie. The authorities did comment, they said there was nothing sinister. Just another 9-11 urban legend.



We knew the cause of the collapse on 9-11-2001. Two commercial aircraft crashed into each building, the resulting structural damage coupled with fire brought them down.

There were over 70 floors of steel not relevant to the investigation.

And yes, the Commission resorted to video and simulations because building life-size replicas of the Twin Towers would be stupid.



The surviving conspirators are still at Guantanamo Bay.



It wasn't.



No. Al Qaeda wanted nothing to do with the Great Satan.



The bin Ladens were not close to the Bush family.

There are 600 members of the bin Laden family. Osama bin Laden had 22 brothers and sisters.

The Saudi Binladin Group (SBG) was founded in 1931, and is one of the go-to construction firms in the entire Middle East. There is no record of them building the USAF annex at the Saudi AF base, but even if they did so what? Contracting for construction in a foreign country is a headache, and using a company like SBG is the smart choice even today.




The evidence shows the opposite. 19 Al Qaeda terrorists hijacked four commercial jetliners and flew them into the WTC, and Pentagon. The last plane crashed as the passengers staged an uprising. The plot may have been uncovered if it were not for FBI and CIA in-fighting. After the attacks the US asked the Taliban to hand over bin Laden and his fellow Al Qaeda members, and they refused, so we invaded. Later the Bush Administration used the attacks of 9-11 to justify an invasion of Iraq.

These are the unassailable facts of 9-11.
With all the legal wrangling, they will probably DIE in Gitmo.
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Old 17th March 2019, 10:43 PM   #77
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classic, this is why 9/11 truth failed -

Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
I gave no false claims. FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
Which evidence used to solve who did the crime of 9/11 was destroyed? Do you have a list?

You did make false claims about 9/11 in the past - can you find them? If not, that is the same reason 9/11 truth failed.
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Old 18th March 2019, 07:32 AM   #78
bknight
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
I gave no false claims. FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.

Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
Are the remains of the twin towers to remain, in a spot that is guarded to prevent tampering, forever?

Only skeptics continue to fly in the face of evidence that does not support reality, but their misguided beliefs. JFK, Apollo, chemtrails come to mind immediately probably more if I continue to think about it.
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Old 18th March 2019, 11:39 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
And yes, the Commission resorted to video and simulations because building life-size replicas of the Twin Towers would be stupid.
This should say the NIST used simulations. (thanks, Cosmic Yak)

When the 9-11 Commission was doing its job the 9-11 Truth morons didn't really exist, so they didn't feel the need to explain the obvious.
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Old 18th March 2019, 11:46 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by ralfyman View Post
It failed because the country, from the economy to money supply to even the military, is essentially controlled by the rich.
What does one have to do with the other?

Quote:
FEMA reports themselves showed that most of the physical evidence was destroyed for no valid reason.
What does that even mean? The WTC steel? What evidence do you think it shows? Magical thermite?

Stop living in fantasyland.

Quote:
Only non-skeptics happily accept what the government tells them.
And only ideologues think anyone who disagrees with them is either a fool, or in on the conspiracy.

Did you consider that perhaps people accept what the government said because it was supported by evidence you don't understand?
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